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Patches For Pine Going Away
md8mart writes to let us know about the imminent shutdown of the site that distributes Pine patches. From the RSS feed of Patches for Pine we read the following bad news for all Pine users: "The Department of Mathematics of the University of Washington will close the account that hosts my Patches for Pine site. I would like to thank the Department of Mathematics for having hosted this site for so many years. I do not have current plans to move this site, but this site will disappear on December 15, 2006. Thank you to everyone who supported me by positive feedback and encouragement to do this work through the years. I will update this information as it becomes available."
this is terrible!
It's time to upgrade to Mutt.
:wq
As Pine is not free software, time to move on to mutt or its next-gen friend, mutt-ng. No need to use a bloated GUI app to read mail.
As for what "pine" means, here is the truth: "Pine Is Not Enough".
Rover as in the Fidonet mascot?
hemi
I sent him an email offering to host the site, we'll see what happens. I see patchesforpine.com is available (or was when this article was in "red" preview status). We'll see what happens; I can't see it being a huge load on my webhosts.
I don't care if pine is free or not. It's served me for many, many years. I use it daily, and it works well. It's not a gui app, either, though I'm not sure you were implying that it was.
As for what "pine" means, here is the truth: "Pine Is Not Enough".
That is false, and not terribly amusing. I had the great fortune to work for a number of years with one of pine's original developers. Over lunch one day, he told me that 'pine' isn't an acronym at all. But, he said, if it were to be made into a backronym, it was generally agreed that it should stand for "Pine Is a Neologist's Elm".
You all can figure out what 'pico' doesn't stand for.
-B
Ash and Hickory, straight-grained and true, make excellent bludgeons, dandy for the cudgeling of vegetarians.
So.. why doesn't someone just take over and host it elsewhere?
Analytic & algebraic topology of locally Euclidean meterization of infinitely differentiable Riemmanian manifold
It's just pining for the Fijords!
-- You are in a maze of little, twisty passages, all different... --
The real Captain Avatar is a fictional character, so I suppose he doesn't mind if I impersonate him.
.. is to drag the tree outside and put it by the bin, and then hoover up the needles.
Because Pine is not GPL/BSD Licensed open source program, it is owned by the Washington University and they allow you to make local changes, distribute free of charge, or charge in a packaged distribution for the packaging of the programs (IE not for pine/pico), but you are not allowed to comercially sell it, and must apply a local tag (L) to the patches or versions you change and distribute. Source
Granted it is a pretty open license, but UW Still owns it.
Since 93, I've used a dozen different email clients. In most cases, they were not of my chosing. When I have a choice, I use pine. I have yet to find a small, capable client with such a straightforward, intuitively designed, user friendly interface. I have high hopes of Alpine but mutt, elm and emacs' rmail are inferior to pine.
Wansu, th' chinese sailor
Its the patches site thats going, not pine itself.
Open Source Drum Kit, LPLC deve board - mjhdesigns.com
I switched from pine to CONE a long time ago. It looks nearly like Pine, but has integrated GPG support and works fine with IMAP folders.
See http://www.courier-mta.org/cone/cone00index.html for the website and http://wiki.splitbrain.org/cone for some info on compiling it.
Need a Wiki? Check out DokuWiki
Mutt is simple enough to configure when using IMAP to access a mailbox, but it starts to become a hassle when you want to send mail via SMTP. While Pine includes SMTP support, you have to use one of a number of third-party MTAs with Mutt for similar functionality. Setting all that up is often a hassle.
I know the arguments behind not adding such support, and having been a Mutt user myself for a while I understand the raw power it offers. But I also understand that many people don't want to spend a lot of extra time setting up their mail client just because it doesn't include some core functionality.
I also just sent him a hosting offer. And, I'm a professor in the University
of Washington math department!
-- William
I would use emacs. The only thing is, it lacks a decent text editor.
I tried Mutt at some point, but I got frustrated at how much customization it would require to get working the way I like. It seemed like it would be easier for me to write my own mail client (as I've already worked with textmode interfaces and there are tons of libraries for the network side). Besides, after things like threaded view and maildir format came into Pine, I had no need feature-wise to use anything else but Pine.
IMHO, Pine has pretty good UI design in that it's quite easy and intuitive for beginners, but also quite customizable for experienced users. So as you grow into a power user, the software can grow with you. (It's a bit like learning Linux with a desktop environment, and gradually proceeding into deeper things like kernel hacking. Try doing the same with the beginner-only design of Windows.)
This is probably why Pine is still the recommended mail client in many universities. The only problem these days must be that text mode is often perceived as inherently difficult or outdated.
Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
But what if I don't want a GUI e-mail client? Sure I can afford the CPU usage, but I'd rather have something small that lives in an SSH window or can even be used on systems where X isn't installed. And most of the graphics sent to me in e-mails are either (a) spam or (b) crap like signatures. The other 1% I can view in webmail should I need to.
Pine is just useless, and it should be abandoned.
Useless how? It allows you to read e-mail and organize it into different folders. What else is needed? A decent search function would be nice, I'd admit, but it's nothing that can't be easily written. That's like saying a 1960s car is useless because it doesn't have power windows, A/C, or ABS brakes...
-b.
I don't have any particular gripes about pine. I've never used it.
Choice is good. How would the death of a project be good for someone who doesn't use it anyway?
As a system administrator, I frequently have to support crappy software and idiots, whether it's something one of my users has installed or something someone somewhere else has installed that one of my users is trying to communicate with. That said, there is a certain percentage of people out there using text based mail clients that do so because they are either too stupid or too stubborn to switch to a mail client that has the modern capabilities 90% of my users simply expect to exist for their recipients. This creates problems for me.
At any rate, my point is that, even as a non-user, there are many projects I have often wished would just die. You don't have to be a user of a particular piece of software for it to impact your life. Eg, everyone is impacted by things like Microsoft Office. Choice isn't necessarily bad, but bad choices are.
With no site for pine patches I'll pine for patches while I mine patches to pine. :-(
When it was first developed, it was simply called "pine", kind of as an homage to elm. Laurence had several backronyms floating around in his head, because people kept asking what "pine" stood for. So he usually told them the one he preferred, which was the one about how the word pine was a neologism. He did just make the word up, after all, and I think he liked the connotation with slightly deranged people.
Years later, UW came up with the news and email thing as the "official" acronym. But it's not what it realy stood for originally when the program was first developed.
-B
Ash and Hickory, straight-grained and true, make excellent bludgeons, dandy for the cudgeling of vegetarians.
I would use emacs. The only thing is, it lacks a decent text editor.
This is no longer true. I can't find the link at the moment, but someone has ported vim to it, as a module.
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
When you have pine on a server, you can use anything that can run a SSH client to connect there. Which, due to the wonders of MidpSSH, can be any device that supports J2ME, which means most of cellphones.
Which also means no need to lug a laptop for mere mail, which is a good theft prevention/damage mitigation (a cellphone is cheaper than a laptop, easier to replace, and easier to take care of - try to put a laptop in your shirt pocket, not mentioning longer battery life), and important security improvement especially in the age of nosy customs (see other articles here). Also, when stationed somewhere where a computer is available, a Knoppix CD will provide a relatively secure terminal free of software keyloggers, with comfortable big screen and qwerty keyboard as an alternative to a cramped eyestraining cellphone screen.
Are you trolling?
You forget (or are unable to use) remote access, then. I can check and reply to email from almost any machine, without having to configure anything on the boxes, or store my email on them. I don't even need Internet access -- a dial-up will do. Or ssh in to my box from my PDA via bluetooth to my cell phone. I don't need a gui, but can use one when I want.
Manipulate? With pine, you can pipe messages to a command. Can you do that with Outlook? And once the email has been received, mine is kept in a standard format that allows manipulation by other programs. Is yours? If I need to search my mail, it takes less than a second to get results for several years worth of mail.
As for speed, single-key commands are always faster than clicking, the reason being very simple: You don't have to aim.
Another great benefit is that you won't be hit by any trojans or even web bugs confirming your email address to spammers.
Oh, and for spam, if a spam gets past the mail filters, I pipe it to spamassassin, and the spam will be learnt by the server, as well as reported to razor and others. This helps rejecting spam by bayesian rules before it hits my account. With Outlook, the best you can do is rejecting based on senders or keywords, after you get the mail.
I have both pine and Outlook. I use pine because it offers so much more than Outlook does, and much quicker.