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Violent Games Blamed For German School Attack
Bret540 writes "A Reuters news story reports that German lawmakers are considering a crackdown on 'violent computer and simulated war games' because a youth decided to attack other students at his school. The young man was apparently already under police consideration for weapons-related violations, and was described as 'someone with no friends.'" From the article: "Wolfgang Bosbach, the deputy head of Chancellor Angela Merkel's Christian Democrats (CDU) in parliament, said it was time to consider banning games that simulate wanton killing. 'We need effective guidelines to protect children from exposure to different types of media, but we don't need (simulated) killer games that can lead to brutalisation,' Bosbach was quoted on the Netzeitung news Web site as saying." InfoWorld has more details on the event as well.
Its hard to imagine living in a country with legalized prostitution that you could get that upset and want to go on a killing spree. While the video game may have influenced the kid into going on a "killing spree" (the voice from quake comes to mind), thats the price of freedom. I suppose Germany is on its way to banning other articles that incite violence... perhaps a crack at the Korahn and the Bible are next considering video games pale in comparison in the levels of violence that they incite.
20th century Marxism is not progress...
Why didn't playing cowboys and indians lead to school shootings? Answer: Because parents spent time with their children instead of leaving them to be raised by the television, video games, et cetera.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
when things like this happen, video games are blamed but when someone claims they killed/attacked someone because God told them to do it, the bible isn't blamed?
We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
It's a very sad situation in Germany. The attitude towards computer games is a joke. Games get bashed for everything. Unfortunately, the ban may also include the production of violent computer games. If it passes (which, I hope, it doesn't) you may as well say goodbye to "Crysis" because Crytek is German... I submitted a story about this, too, but it is still pending...
*door opens*
GUTEN TAG!!! *ratta tatta tatta*
But that couldn't happen again.
We taught them a lesson in 1918
And they've hardly bothered us since then.
If you don't know where you are going, you will wind up somewhere else.
After all, violence and wanton killing never existed in Germany prior to video games.
Oh wait...
I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you.
Arent't these german politicians (who wants to ban the violent games) from the same party that imposes in every schoolroom a realistic three-dimensional depiction of a human being tortured?
PS for those who don't get it, there is a crucifix in every school romm in Bavaria...
Every german politician shouts about 'banning games' and that it'll be the solution to the problem. Few are asking how the kid could get weapons and explosives.
It's not unusual for convicted criminals to be put on probation and required not to own or engage in various activities. Sex offenders, for instance, are not allowed to live near schools.
So how about adding violent (rated M) video games to that list? If you're teenager convicted of some violent crime, part of your punishment is a prohibition on owning and playing these games. That way, the 99.9999% of the population who are not influenced by these games to commit crimes won't also be punished.
And the men who hold high places must be the ones who start
To mold a new reality... closer to the heart
Germany has banned "human nature" in hopes to put an end to violence. Results pending.
TLF
I do not respond to cowards. Especially anonymous ones.
Germany already has the strongest laws in the world regarding this. The main problem is, that the causes of the incident are not very clear yet. The main problem in germany is that once an incident happens, the usual 5 or 6 politicians crawl out of their holes and the minute this happens they cry to the media they need more enforcement regarding the internet and regarding games (in the 80s it was movies, that has worn off)
The problem in this case is, the guy, a young adult, being 18, you become entirely adult with 19 in germany, left a note on the net sort of a help cry which led to this incident, the games definitely were not the cause of this, though they might be a small part to the puzzle as probably was other media. The main question to this case is, why did no one really notice upfront, and why did the last message of him go mostly unnoticed and how did this young man (he was not a child anymore) develop such a hatred that he did not see any other solution anymore than to do what he did (he did not come from a broken background, he had a nice family and generally grew up in a suburbian environment).
The main problem for the usual bunch of politicians this time is, that the media does not buy the cheap, lets ban what we do not understand trick anymore. To my suprise yesterday evening I saw in german public TV ZDF a very unbiased view to the whole issue and the general consensous in the press so far seems, that lets do a more rigorous ban on something those guys simply do not understand is not the solution you only remove a small part of the puzzle why the causes themselves seem to be elsewhere.
Have in mind the last two incidents were done by young adults, one being definitely member in a Schützenverein (which is sort of a shooting club) but those bonehead politicians never even mentioned the word. The general consensous in this generation gap of politics is, young people = games are a media form we grew up with and can deal with it, internet = opportunities
Old people = internet root of all evil we have to control it, games = root of all evil we have to ban it.
As far as I can see at least there seems to be a slow generation shift in the general media towards younger people who have a clearer view regarding this complex net of causes and results. People like Stoiber (being over retirement age), Merkel (slowly creeping against retirement age) and others simply do not get it. They are on a witch hunt without result because it is easier to target something they do not understand than to look at the real causes which are maybe harder to solve or impossible to solve on the side of politics.
It is well know that Hitler played ET on an Atari 2600. The Schlieffen Plan was previously known as the ColecoVision Congo Bongo Strategy (damned historians rewriting history). God knows the impact of the Gizmondo's Momma Can I Mow the Lawn on the German mentality.
I've high hopes that we can do the same in this country.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
Man, I just got to point out that disaffected kids have been killing since before computer games were about- Check out this snopes article on the above mentioned Boomtown Rats song http://www.snopes.com/music/songs/mondays.asp It has some info on 'prior art'....
"Be light, stinging, insolent and melancholy"
Am I the only one that is disturbed by a party called christian democrats? "Power to the people... as long as God agrees!"
When I was 12 we got our first computer, a 386 and I started with the PC version of Mortal Kombat, then.. Doom, Duke Nukem 3D, Blood, Quake, yadda yadda, all the violent FPs, full of 'satanic' symbols, fowl language, blood, gore, sweat and more fun than you can shake a stick at. but I had parents that tought me the basis of right and wrong and what was real and not real. and I turned out just fine, except.. sometimes, when shopping in an over crowded mall I have fantasies about God mode, two Uzis and and unlimited ammo.
Games aren't the problem. The blame for this lands squarely at the feet of Judas Priest. Dee Snyder's probably involved, too.
ON DELETE CASCADE
Paintball and LaserTag, Simulated Deathmatch, OK maybe not fit for minors. I laserTagged my way through 1985 never made me want to kill anyone, but I can almost see her point.
She added that children should also be prevented from playing violent computer games.
Restricting M rated games to people of Mature Age is also acceptable.
The federal government has so far refused to ban such games.
Ahh, the system works.
The opposition Greens warned against banning violent computer and war games.
Opposition? Soory, here in the US we don't allow such things.
Volker Beck, a leading Greens member of parliament, said it would be better to focus the debate on the proper use of computers and not jump to conclusions before it was clear what motivated Bastian B.
Clear Heads working in government, I am shocked. Now I know why we call'em foriegners.
This 18yr old was due in court for weapons violations. Hmmmm. I wonder what his otivations could be. Notice no call for banning the weapons and explosions he used. Maybe they should just mandate that every teen must be laid at least once before graduation, as long as we are talking about motivation.
OSGGFG - Open Source Gamers Guide to Free Games
Well, I can drag out the tired old arguements of alcohol prohibition in the U.S., and the U.S. war on drugs... they are a dead horse, but it deserves some beating just because so few people understand the concept...
Currently, software developers use a lot of discretion in what they produce, and they do a pretty good job making sure the games are not sold to minors and not marketed to them. They might not do a perfect job, but there are a clear and established set of guidlines that they follow, a set of guidelines that stores follow, and it works OK.
Ban violent video games, and instead of violent video games being sold in legit stores, by legit companies, you are going to instead shift that buisness to the black market, who will not be able to compete in quality but instead will outdue each other in how graphicly violent, demented, and disturbing the games can be, and they will sell them online from outside Germany.
You never ever ever improve a situation by driving a product from being sold by legit buisnesses to be sold by the black market. It won't reduce violent video games, it will make them more violent. It will not make violent video games harder to get, it will make them easier to get. Just like any high school kid knows, it is way easier to get weed than alcohol... and any gun owners knows that it is cheaper and easier to get an AK-47 on the black market than to legaly purchase a modest licened pistol in most places... this kind of legislation is just going to drive the production of video games into the hands of those who most want to exploit children.
All attempts to ban victimless crimes fail... and they fail because the government can't revoke basic laws of economics. If there is sufficient demand for a product, there are going to be people more than willing to supply the product. Even in the U.S. where there are paramilitary style drug squads, and over a million people in prison because of drug charges, there has not been any permanent decrease in drug use since the war began. And I hardly imagine that Germany is going to be willing to go as far enforcing a video game ban as the U.S. has gone with it's drug ban, so it will not even be as effective as the U.S. war on drugs.
Doesn't Germany already closely regulate violence in video games?
Proud member of the American Non Sequitur Society. We might not make much sense, but boy do we love pizza!
Ok, for those of you who can read the language:
http://www.heise.de/tp/r4/artikel/24/24032/1.html
I personally find it pretty insightfully, almost as much as the fact that it, together with the boys website was immediately taken off the net. It just goes to show, how repressive the German state is, and how such a terrible incident is used as justification to make laws designed to take away my freedom as a gamer and my responsibility as a sane/more-or-less-moral person in general.
These are just the usual suspects. Every country has them, mine isn't free of them, sorry.
The good news is that aside from the parts of the media already well known for being less than acurate and very sensationalist in everything, the media is offering a slightly more interesting picture this time.
The one thing that bothers me, however, is that apparently the police have shut down his website, where the young man had published his diaries and other texts, stuff that would give a much clearer picture as to his motivation. Luckily, some media are reprinting excerpts, and they do make for interesting reading. Needless to say, games have a very minor part.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
My guess is that every normal person played some sort of war game with one's peers during childhood, or any other game involving "shooting" and "killing" (Lil' Crimstoppers anyone ?). If you go into a toy store, it seems like half of the toys are toy weapons or are related to military. This has been true for ages, and has not been a problem. When Crime and Punishment came out, it caused quite a disturbance in society. If you think of it, this book might have much a stronger effect than any videogame. Yet it is being studied in schools now. The point is - the person who might be 'affected' by a video game is not normal to begin with, since otherwise we'd already have been dead for centuries. Hence isntead of banning games, it would be more effective to ban mentally unstable people from the society (or at least maintain surveillance over them).
send this text to the politicians.
won't help but hopefully would show them the disapproval of the population.
Conservatism: The fear that somewhere, somehow, someone you think is your inferior is being treated as your equal.
There is a law in germany banning blood in videogames.
Hence, publishers releasing games in the european market will edit the blood out for the entire multilingual release, since the rule of the smallest common denominator (germany's hemophobia) applies. For games going to europe: Any images of blood are to be logged as critical bugs.
Now, in the U.S., however, the same rule applies to nipples (which reminds me, I'm undercafeinated).
So I'm really not surprised that they're taking another step down the slippery slope of censoring games. It's not going to DO anything about real violence, like hiding nipples is not going to stop the desire for nipples, but it's not the actions of a sane mindset, it's a hysterical show, starring a straw man.
After all, the waltz will cause wanton sexuality, I mean, rock and roll is the devil's music, no wait, I meant comic books will turn kids into axe murderers... er, no, that's pot: smoking reefers turns kids into violent psychos. Yeah... games are bad, mmm-kay?
You can't take the sky from me...
I blame otherwise inept political demagogs for violence worldwide. Lets ban them!
Oh, shit, there goes the neighborhood.
Any sufficiently advanced influence is indistinguishable from control.
(Translator's note: This translation is for the benefit of all who don't know enough German. It sends a chill through my bones. I don't see much how videogames could have spurred him on, he seems to have had plenty of momentum of his own...pretty much a repeat of columbine if you ask me.)
When you know, that you can't be happy anymore in your life, and the reasons for this accumulate from day to day, then there remains nothing less than to disappear from this life. And therefore have I decided. There are probably people who would have gone on, would have thought "It'll be ok", but it won't.
I am told that I have to go to school, in order to learn for my life, in order later to live a good life. But what will get you the fattest car, the biggest house, the most beautiful woman, if it's all just shit in the end. If your wife begins to hate you, when your car uses petrol that you can't pay, and when you have nobody that will visit you in your shit house!
The only thing that I really learned in school was that I am a loser. For the first years at the GSS (school?) that was true, I fell for consumerism, and afterwards strived to make friends, people who don't see you as a person, but as a status symbol.
But then I woke up! I recognised that the world as I saw it didn't exist, that it was an illusion, that mainly is produced by the media. I noticed more and more what kind of world I lived in. A world where money rules everything, at least in the school it was only about that. You had to have the newest mobile, the newest clothes, and the right "friends". If you don't have those you're not worth noticing. And I call these people Jocks. Jocks are all, who on the basis of expensive clothes or pretty girls, stand above others. I detest these people, no, I detest people.
I discovered when I was 18 that you can only be happy, when you follow the crowd, watch out for the society. But I couldn't and wouldn't. I'm free! Nobody is allowed to enter my life, and he who does must bear the consequences! No politician has the right to pass laws, that forbid me things. No bull [policeman?] has the right to take my guns away from me, at least not while he's wearing them at his own belt.
Why all this? Why must I work? So that I'm crippled and at 65 can go into retirement and snuff it 5 years later? Why should I bother to reach something, when it's all shit in the end because I will croak sooner or later?
I can build a house, have children and I don't know what else. But why? The house will be torn down sometime, and the kids will also die. Pray tell, what kind of meaning does life then have? None! So everyone has to give his life a meaning, and that I will not do in that I crawl around some overpaid manager's ass or to piss around with Fascists who want to tell me that we live in a popular government.
No, there is another possibility to give my life meaning, and this I will not waste like all others before! Maybe I could have lived my life completely differently. But society has no place for individualists. I mean real individualists, that think by themselves, and not the "I wear a riveted armband and am alternative" idiots!
You all started this revenge, not me. My actions are a result of your world, a world that won't let me be how I am. You all made fun of me, the same way I did with you, only I had a completely different sense of humour!
From 1994 to 2003/2004 it was also my endeavour to make friends, have fun. When I came to the GSS in 1988, it started with the status symbols, clothing, friends, mobiles etc.. Then I woke up. I realised that my life long I was the goon for others, and that they made fun of me. And I swore revenge!
This revenge will be carried out so brutally and ruthlessly, that your blood will freeze in your arteries. Before I go, I will come down on you like a ton of bricks, so that I won't be forgotten! I want you all to recognise, that nobody has the right to invade in someone else's life under a fantastical disguise made of law and religion!
I
"a youth decided to attack other students at his school"
Shouldn't the crackdown be on youths rather than games?
Or maybe schools.
Yes. I think removing either youths or schools from society will definitely prevent the same kind of tragedy happening again.
I think we can all agree here that the parents are at least partially at fault. I remember being younger growing up in Europe, playing army games all the time. Running around with wooden sticks pretending they're machine guns and gunning each other down, with guns, grenades (fake ones) you name it..
...if we let ourselves try.
I would personally have a hard time killing a fly, so I really don't see how this whole "video games are bad" can be applied to the general population, there MUST be another variable at play here.
Throughout my years of video games, I have had next to zero supervision from my parents since they did not know what these computers are or how to work them, but I didn't need any, because I know what is a video game and what is not. To this day I cannot see anything in a video game that has affected my judgement in real life when it comes to life or death decisions.
Sometimes I try very hard to think and come up with an idea of what the real cause and nature of these school shootings are but I`m at a loss. The only thing that comes close to mind is how the kids these days grow up a lot quicker. I think it comes with all the sex and violance on TV, in magazines, and on the Internet, but most importantly the "freedom" that people have today to express all these forms of "art" that were not available to them in the past 100 years must play a role in it, I`m sure of that.
So while video games may be a contributing factor, I think they are only a small potion of the problem. I think instead of banning the "problem" we should take a look at ourselves as a society and look for problems in ourselves, rather than those who create the games.
More education at home and a warm family will always prevail over violent video games and "hooligan" friends that your son is hanging out with, I know it has worked for me, and I`m sure it will work for 90% of the population
The magical number is: 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
Next time the parents should tell the kid to play a game like, "Tales of the Abyss", that preaches killing is bad, before letting the kid step into the arena. :P
Honostly that's what most games are missing is the lack of understanding, that even on a real battlefield, no one likes to kill ... or die for that matter.
~ChibiSkuld~
... in the linked article. Go here for more details, and best before you comment: http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,449814, 00.html
> For all the backbiting and discord between the US and its long standing European friends, your analysis sounds very familiar.
I think the real front lines are not between the two continents, but between the the people who want us to believe they are (among them many "weaselly politicians") and the rest of us. This school shooting discussion is a good example: most people here just seem to use their brains and come to similar conclusions, no matter where they live.
bye, r.
Please read his goodbye letter...the reason is obvious: society puts more and more people in the social gutter. Society only has time for the rich and famous...the others are material for the meat grinder...it is not video games or bad parents that lead to this type of action!
"Contra" was called "Probotector" in Germany, and the soldies have been replaced by robots. Even on the Gameboy version, where you couldn't actually see any blood or anything graphically violent.
I know, parents are always to blame on Slashdot. But read his farewell letter. I don't think his parents had much to do with his problems. Neither did video games.
Once again we find ourselves looking at a group of lawmakers who have the situation the totally wrong way around. You can argue and argue and try and prove that violent games cause people to commit crimes like this - but there are far too many cases to the contrary for that to be conclusively true. I'm sure many Slashdotters play violent games, and I doubt that the majority (is it too presumptuous to say 'any'?) of members have ever seriously considered shooting up a school, or such - let alone gone and done it.
Violent video games *do* have an effect on people, let's not bypass the issue, but they people they tend to have this "devastating" effect on are people that already have a tendancy towards violence or exhibit a sufficient lack of discipline.
Surely the key to ensuring that people don't take stuff in video games too seriously, is to ensure that children are disciplined and educated enough to understand that the simulated world != real life? I'm sure that the majority of the population understand this - but once again people are looking to penalise the masses for the actions of a few, rather than spend the time to inform, educate and discipline those few.
First of all, I express my condolences to the teenager, his family especially, and all the people who were hurt in the incident.
Perhaps lawmakers have a rigid perception of a person who is potentially susceptible to violent episodes. They may centre on the rational mind as their conception of the citizen who upholds morality and abides by laws. And then, they may visualize games as being an external disruptive psychological influence. The problem with this theory is that (using my past experience, since I am 19 and male) the person's mind is, I think, not actually in a pristine state. Putting myself one or two years back, the themes, ideas presented to the gamer (me) through my gaming were actually already encoded into me by my political environment - the taking of life, the rituals of military combat shown to me in sources from movies to the television. I argue that even if this category of games were to be banned, persons would only shift their focus onto other sources of violent ideas to fill their paranoid fantasy; or, it is likely that the banning of any sufficiently large and industry-supported commodity of expression will fail, for such large-scale items (games, and also porn?) are limited in scope and cater to a wide teenage audience with 'needs' that are of a sublime nature, being difficult to study and discuss authoritatively, and therefore, the economic imperative of the gaming industry has a dominant influence, and its action is to cater to this market's psychological predilections - Exploring the thematic extremes of violence and sexuality, and the obsession (brought on by self-involvement in today's dangerous, factioned world) over the value of life.
I'm sure that one will be popular with the Slashdot crowd!
Some of this opinions are similar to mine, but this guy is just a typical hypocrite. He complains that people should be free, and then attacks several people, and in doing so he is surely not considering their freedom. At the beginning of his letter, he seems to be giving a reasonable account of the problems with generic culture, but later it just degrades into an pathetic rant about anything and everything related to his own personal inability to succeed in finding positive social interaction. He claims to hate Nazism, but he promotes anarchy, racism and chaos. Suggesting people do whatever they want, whenever they want to is certainly no way to preserve anybody's freedom or rights. He explains that he took revenge on his school to be remembered, but that is certainly only worth remembering by his own twisted logic. Rather than making some important contribution to... well, anything, he commits suicide, perhaps in an attempt to be dramatic.
The young man was apparently already under police consideration for weapons-related violations, and was described as 'someone with no friends.
Hmmm, no friends and weapons related violations. Yep, it was definintly the games that caused him to shoot people... In fact I bet the Unibomber secretly played bomberman before his stunts.