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UK Schools Bans WiFi Due To Health Concerns
Mantrid42 writes "Schools in the UK are getting rid of their WiFi network, citing health concerns from parents and teachers. The wireless emanations, parents fear, may be the root cause of a host of problems from simple fatigue to the possibility of cancer. A few scientists think younger humans may be more vulnerable to the transmissions, because of thinner skulls. From the article: "Vivienne Baron, who is bringing up Sebastian, her ten-year-old grandson, said: 'I did not want Sebastian exposed to a wireless computer network at school. No real evidence has been produced to prove that this new technology is safe in the long term. Until it is, I think we should take a precautionary approach and use cabled systems.'"
$5 bucks says she's talking on her cell phone with her little Sebastian within a few feet of her.
When you have a populace so absurdly uneducated as to buy into this nonsense, evidence and facts are meaningless. No doubt they're being whipped up some pseudo-scientific con-artist, and used their cordless phones to spread the news. Too bad gullability wasn't fatal. That would weed some of the most ludicrous ninnies on the planet out of the gene pool.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Whole-brain heating is not the only biological mechanism of interaction with radiation. The bulk of relevant research in this area for the last few years seems to be focused on sub-thermal interactions.
Microwave radiation passing through a sample of polar molecules which are aligned can produce directionally correlated rotation in the entire collection. Any interaction for which all of the molecules rotate in the same direction is not a thermal interaction, as the thermodynamic limit does not apply to coordinated movements. Therefore you can't even use the language of "heat" to describe the interaction at this scale. It just so happens that lipid bilayers are polar molecules which are aligned, and unfortunately, the precise biological consequences of the effects of such rotations on the function of lipid bilayers is very poorly understood.
It seems quite naive for the people in this forum to be dismissing the concerns of those parents as uneducated and unscientific. There are serious unanswered scientific questions about the interactions and effects this will have, and you can't just wish or scoff them away. "The company that built it said it was safe" doesn't really qualify as scientific understanding, and "everything is dangerous" is an unscientific and fallacious argument.
"Occam's razor says it was the wireless network. Let's not confuse science with wishful thinking in hoping all cool technology is safe."
Yeah.. he couldn't *possibly* have just had a flu or something like that.
The article doesn't specify, but you'd think if it was such a horribly dangerous technology, there'd be sick people like this all over his school.
Hexy - a strategy game for iPhone/iPod Touch
any argument taken seriously that prevents young minds from communication is very troubling
the real issue here is NOT health - it is being driven by the idea that young minds have access to a world of ideas not under control from those in power. the Internet has a global set of ideas - empowering, liberating, libralizing, and educating ideasl this is quite contrary to the mentality in most lower schools which are follow the rules, learn/do what you're told, and tow the line.
the idea that kids the age of 8 or 9 or 10 (ish) are educated and empowered is deathly frightening to small minded parents, who are so childish themselves they can't deal with strong people. So instead, they cite some completely absurd health scare to keep kids from easy, broad access to online content.
it is sadly ironic that by applying an argument to protect their health, they will actually harm these children by limiting their access to the Internet
If you do a lot of research you will find that studies that claim that there is a relationship between EMF forces and cancer are almost all fatally flawed, (the infamous 1972 Colorodo Powerline study that started the scare had the flaw of all the group with elevated cancer rates having being exposed to herbicides that are known carcinogens) to the studies funded by the manufacturer of low emf electric blankets after the product was on the market.
There is no evidence to support the parents beliefs that withstands scrutiny, despite 35 years of research. (there does seem to be a statistically insignificant negative corralation between cell phone use and brain cancers, but nothing that is not accounted for by socioeconomic variables.)
Work bio at MMWD
Some bits of you resonate to different radio frequencies. Some of those frequencies you mention just go right thru you like you were glass (AM/FM, natural), others like you were a blackbody (infrared) and others in-between (microwaves).
Microwave radiation (wifi, cordless and cell) is particularly nasty, as your brain seems to resonate to it, along with cellular DNA. Enough to cause cognitive and memory deficits. Exposure to it seems to be cumulative.
Here's a paper to read on the subject.
I agree, but don't you think that Michael Bevington is overreacting just a little bit?
Probably, but there's a simple way to find out, secretly turn off the network. If he makes the same complaints then you know it's not the wireless network.
If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
Hey, if the man was getting sick, then he was getting sick. It's not an overreaction to want to get better, so if removing the network from his classroom made him not sick, then good for him. It wouldn't be very helpful to just tell him to suck it up.
It might be nice if someone in the area would contact him about setting up a controlled experiment where a router he is exposed to for a full day is turned on and off at random without his knowledge, and each day he records how he feels. If this were done for 10-20 days, the result would probably be pretty clear one way or the other.
The 2.4ghz segment of the microwave spectrum used for wireless devices is essentially harmless. E = hc/w where w = wavelength (normally he symbol lambda is used). The wavelength in this section of the spectrum is very large, comparatively speaking. You know those little holes in the screen of the microwave? Simply put, even those are too small for a microwave to fit through. And the amplitude of wireless lan devices is rather small--ban cellular phones long before you ban a wifi network. The most that particular set of frequencies can do is warm the human body up, and to do that it would need to be far more intense of a signal to have any noticeable effect. Those florescent bulbs used for lighting are more harmful--that white coating on the inside is all that's keeping ultraviolet light, which is harmful, inside the bulb.
There's no evidence that it isn't harmful, I'll give you that. But find evidence that the easter bunny doesn't exist while you're at it. Just because some mammals grow so large, or just because some electromagnetic waves have the potential of being harmful, doesn't mean they all do.
The two are not unrelated. There is a study out there showing that the 2.4 GHz band can alter the permeability of the blood-brain barrier sufficiently to allow carcinogenic substances into the brain which could not previously enter. If the cell boundary or other regional boundaries have their behavior altered, then the resulting consequences can potentially be quite complex, and can include damage to DNA.
2.4 ghz seems to be the frequency that messes with me. Had to go back to a long, long ethernet cable between two Macs in the house because the network was giving me headaches. And cell phones have always given me headaches if i use them for more than a few minutes. having 2 on in the house seems to have the same effect as a wireless network between computers. Finally, 2.4 wireless home phone systems also cause me grief. Have to use a headset or a mere 5 minutes into the conversation I'm in headache-city again. A 5.8 system I was given, married with the wireless computer network was the worst I've ever expereinced. Had to ditch the 5.8 phones. Though, it seems that over time I can get slowly used to it.
The most interesting moment was during a thanksgiving last year. My wife was working in the kitchen on the main floor, getting the dinner ready, while I was downstairs playing with our children. Had the wireless Apple Airport Express unit in the kitchen with my wife, and the wireless network card turn on in my Mac downstairs. I told her that in the next 2 hours or so, plug the unit into a wall outlet whenever she wanted, but write down the time, and I'd write down the time I think she plugged it in. She did it twice. About 35 minutes between each time, about 40 minutes into the test. I nailed it to the minute both times. Whenever she plugged it in, my eyes would within minutes get very dry, I'd get the cranky, dull headache, and the most odd feeling was the sense that I was moving in slow motion, but only for a minute or so. I of course realize none of this is supposed to be happening, but it happens far too consistently, for far too long for me personally to rule out. I can tell when a friend, client, or cafe has wireless within seconds of entering the home.
Here in the U.S., we have no problem mislabeling things to avoid confusing stupid people. Our presidential ballots give the name of the candidate we are voting for, when in fact we are voting for a representative to the electoral college. MRI (Magnetic Resonance Imaging) was once known as Nuclear Magnetic Resonance Imaging, it uses radio waves to do its job just the same. Marking irradiated meat as "sanitized" or similar seems perfectly reasonable given the general fear of safe uses of radiation. Frankly I'm surprised people who get their power from nuclear plants don't try to put lead shielding around the cords, because clearly the electricity must be irradiating their homes and giving their children cancer. Perhaps they've had enough lead already.
The right to protest the State is more sacred than the State.
"weed" can be consumed in numerous ways which are not cancer-causing.
However, burning a joint (or otherwise burning the plant with an open flame) will generate carcinogens, which cause cancer.
See http://www.drugtext.org/sub/marmyt1.html (item #5)
Or, which contends even more carcinogens: http://www.nida.nih.gov/Infofacts/marijuana.html (section Effects on the Lungs, paragraph #3)
You can cook with it, or you can vaporize it.
Promote cannabis, not cancer!
i have an acer aspire notebook with built in 802.11 G. I am a freelancer and work from this notebook every day - perhaps for 8-12 hours. the notebook's radio is offset to the right front portion of the notebook, say under the right hand when on the home keys.
maybe three to six weeks after getting the notebook, i started noticing a pain in my thigh. it was an internal heat pain in the right side of my thigh and it got worse the longer I was in front of the notebook.
i thought it was a cramp or orthopedic thing from bad posture. but when i use my other notebook, an IBM with the radio antennae (external) pointed out to the side, I don't feel this pain. Nor do I feel it when I turn off the radio and use a wired network.
I experimented with it over several weeks. every time I was in front of the notebook, I felt the pain in my right upper thigh, which worsened the longer I was in front of it.
I experimented further. I pushed myself away from my desk and increased the distance betwen myself and the notebook - this reduced the severity of the burning pain.
The final straw was falling asleep at my notebook and waking up with a blinding headache on one side of my head, which was against the notebook. To me the conclusion was certain.
I've permanently disabled the radio on that laptop and no longer feel this pain at all. It's gone.
My personal conclusion, proximity is the issue. And notebook proximity to wifi radios might be too close for prolonged exposure to RF radiation without appreciable detrimental symptoms.
My favorite one is from many years ago. A ham radio operator moved into a new neighborhood and put up a tower and antenna in his back yard. The complaints came pouring in regarding to TV reception interferance problems, strange voices on the phone lines, voices on the intercom, etc. He replied to all complaints that he was sure his transmitter was not causing any of the problems and invited anyone to send a certified tech out to check for any out of band or excessive power transmission that could cause the problem.
Nobody sent a technician to check his station. This did not settle the complaints and the FCC was called out due to the number of complaints. The FCC sent him a letter in response to the complaints and they required of him to have his transmitter certified by the manufacture.
He wrote back and stated the transmitter was lost in shipping and he was waiting for the insurance to settle so he could purchase a replacement.
Meanwhile he documented and filed all the complaints as existing conditions to the new location prior to beginning operation.
The truth shall set you free!
Study Finds No Cancer-Marijuana Connectionc le/2006/05/25/AR2006052501729_pf.html
9
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/arti
Marijuana Unlikely to Cause Head, Neck, or Lung Cancer
http://www.webmd.com/content/article/23/1728_5730
This is the exact f*** problem. Technology has nothing to do with it. Cretinous parents (and grandpatents like in this case) do at least in the UK.
If you ferry your child around till the age of 4 in a buggy he will quite obviously be fatigued in school. Children are children, they will always try to run and play in every free moment. If they have been ferried till the age of 4 like a disabled or retarded even that little play will make them fatigued and absolutely knackered.
In fact the primary school teachers in the UK base their working methods that children are physically unfit. For example the entire daily schedule in a reception class is designed so that you tire the children first by running them in the playground for half an hour. After that they more or less sit for 30 minutes while the teacher "works" with them while they are splattered around her (not that they absorb anything). If a child is fit he does not get tired enough to sit still and is constantly in trouble (as my son is).
The primary reason for "fatigue" is the abissmal level of physical fitness which applies to 99% of the British kids. Nearly all are ferried in buggies till school age and kept tied down so that they do not do something stupid (instead of teaching them not to do so). They are also kept as far away from exercise as possible and then some. If you go to a park in the UK on a cold or rainy day the only kids will be the foreigners'. You are going to hear French, Polish, Spanish or other European speech in the playground. English will be a rarity. If you go and ask a British parent if your son can play with his son football outside on a typical "British Weather(TM)" day you are likely to hear "Why don't they play football on his playstation?". Best case scenario - you can negotiate 15 minutes worth of play time and after that the british kid will be locked back indoors just in case so he does not catch a cold.
As far as the cancer - obesity and tons of junk food are a well known cause cancer as well (just search for chips and acrilamide).
Baker's Law: Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it
http://www.sigsegv.cx/
Is that the real problem though? The gigantic radiation symbol isn't saying anything that's untrue - if people know that the meat is irradiated, then they're gonna react in a certain way, symbol or not.
The problem with labeling irradiated food with a radura (sp?) is that that symbol is more often used to denote dangerous radiation, in the same way that the similar biohazard symbol is used for biomedical waste. Personally, I don't see any need to label irradiated food in any special way at all.
SirWired
One time I was playing around with a C-BAND dish (those big ugly satellite dishes your rich uncle had that he stole skinamax on). I had the LNB (pick up eye) hooked to a spectrum analyzer and was looking for satellites to peruse, and I noticed that there was a constant, clipped spike (past the limits of the analyzer's upper bar) around 2.4GHz, no matter if the dish was pointed at the sky, at the ground, directly into the building, or if the eye was off the dish entirely, it never changed.
I unplugged out 802.11g box to see if that was causing it, and it didn't make one difference in the size of the spike. The world is so flooded with consumer electronics that run at that frequency that it makes no never mind whether you, personally, give it up or not.
I'd be a lot more worried about crusading against the, undoubtedly high, levels of mold and mildew that no doubt infests the circulation system at such an instititution, as I've never worked in a school that had good air quality besides the new high school they built on the hill last year, and that was only good until the students showed up.
And maybe there *is* something to it, just like "An Inconvenient Truth". We only have a single generation's worth of experience with exposure to man-made EMF, and maybe there *is* some tipping point when you go beyond broadcast exposure to having each person wearing a bluetooth cellphone (2 frequencies, close to the body) and carrying a wifi device.
We just don't know. It's hard to imagine anyone checking impartially with absolutely no bias. And if one *ignores* the possibility, one is being narrower than the people being called luddites - they didn't say no to computers or networking, just to RF exposure.
HF was a much higher frequency so it walked over the filters.
Much inexpensive gear was never designed to survive in an RF field to save money. Even if the ham station is operating legaly, the problem arises from the RF envelope being detected by a non-linear component somewhere in the audio equipment. In the case of cheap PA gear, it is usualy the speaker wires or line in or microphone in lines that act as an antenna. This is rectified by a transistor junction, or slightly oxidised solder pin forming a diode which detects the RF envelope. This happens even when the ham radio equipment is 100% OK.
I have had to fix some sound systems for churches and such as a mobile CB operatior would cruise by running either AM or SSB and would join the sermon in the church. Using a hand held CB walkie talkie, I could usualy find the path into the PA system by unplugging all the microphone cables, testing, unplugging the tape deck, testing, etc. Once the entry path is found it is usualy easly fixed by application of a small ferrite bead inside the amp on the signal line from the jack on the panel and adding a small shunt capacitor. Audio is generaly considered 20 HZ to 20,000 HZ. Putting in a filter that knocks off stuff above 50,000 HZ cuts the RF and doesn't impact the audio quaility.
The worst case of cheap consumer junk are the stereo systems such as boom boxes and it's home ilk with absolutely no metal shielding of any kind in it. They are wide open to any and all RF that may happen to be in the air. Add clock radios to this bunch of offenders. A late night ham or CB'er and a bedside clock-radio is a recipe for a hate session with the local ham radio operator. It's easy to blame the ham operator, but hard to identify the CB'er with what looks like a car radio antenna stuck on their rain gutter just cross the fence.
On the other hand a CB'er using a 500 watt linear amplifier run into clipping is a dirty mess to try to keep out of equipment. A lot of ham operators got the blame for illegal CB operation in the 1970's and 1980's. I know. I used to DF them. The worst offenders either ran a beam antenna and linear, or an antenna on the rain gutter or in the tree next to the house to hide it. The hidden antennas were the ones most likely to get into a flame war and use profanity, an activity almost never done by licensed ham operators.
The low antenna tended to put a lot of RF into the next door sound system. The ham operator with a high gain directional antenna high on a tower did not tend to put much RF into the neighbors stuff.
The truth shall set you free!