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Corporate America Not Ready For Vista

thefickler writes to point out a TechBlorge article about a study indicating how few corporate computers now deployed are capable of running Windows Vista. The article says that the study, by Softchoice, will be released next week. The study found that 50% of the PCs inventoried (from a sample of 112,000 from 472 organizations) are below Vista's basic system requirements. Roughly half of those PCs will need to be replaced outright to run Vista. 94% of corporate PCs are not ready for Vista Premium Edition. The article notes that the need to upgrade hardware "could... mean that organizations will hold off upgrading to Windows Vista until their next hardware refresh," as some analysts have been saying for a while now.

39 of 317 comments (clear)

  1. Not ready for IE7 either by eples · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Corporations aren't ready for IE7, either.

    This stuff takes time. Let's do IE7 first, Microsoft. Then push Vista down our throats.

    --
    I'm a 2000 man.
    1. Re:Not ready for IE7 either by twiddlingbits · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Which raises the question..are there AUTHORIZED porn videos for work? Maybe if you work for a porn website?

    2. Re:Not ready for IE7 either by Jugalator · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Why should they wait? Let them push their products and wait for their revenues if they wish?

      Lacking Vista sales is their problem, not ours.

      --
      Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
    3. Re:Not ready for IE7 either by pilgrim23 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Recently our shop took a perfectly functional, and working softwre interface down replacing it with a bug riddenm not ready for prime time and STILL doesn't work right months later .NET product. The Microsoft or no soft mindset is alive and well so as you see, we are ready to implement Vista, IE 7, or Tooth Fairy 4.0 as long as it shines with the light reflected from Ballmer's bald spot...

      --
      - Minutus cantorum, minutus balorum, minutus carborata descendum pantorum.
  2. Their main market? by tmandry · · Score: 3, Interesting

    ...and the workplace is really Windows' main market. I'm willing to guess that at least half their profits come from corporations. The question is, why do they seem to be switching targets?

    1. Re:Their main market? by Joe+The+Dragon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Windows is not switching targets. Corporations are trying to get by with the low end systems like Celeron , 256 - 512 ram, and gma And that was good for the 4-5 year old xp but not for the new and bloated windows vista.

      Also M$ needs some thing to stand up to OSX.

    2. Re:Their main market? by igb · · Score: 5, Insightful
      The computer industry needs to face up to the fact that computers are now `good enough'. For most current desktop purposes --- email, word processing of small documents, web browsing, running corporate applications (usually client/server) and so on, a 2006-spec PC will do the job. There's not been a compelling feature in desktop Windows since NT 5 --- witness the reluctance for Windows 2000 shops to move to XP --- nor in Office since 2000. Except for providing toys for your younger employees to play with (a dubious benefit), why would any shop with >1GHz machines running NT>=5 and office >=2000 want to upgrade? How would you show the cost/benefit?

      ian

    3. Re:Their main market? by twiddlingbits · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Cost/benefit of upgrading could be better warranty, better vendor support, both of which may mean lower support costs. Support costs are big factors in what gets chosen. How about less power use by the newest generation of CPUs and hard drives, when a company has 1000's of Desktops that power bill is a factor. Also products reach End-Of-Life where they are no longer supported by the vendor. Those would be my Top 3 reasons to upgrade.

      I too don't see a lot of Apps (except Windows bloatware) forcing upgrades. Which I hope is good news for Linux on the Corporate Desktop. With GNOME and other GUIs, OpenOffice and various other open source "office" applications you can have the same functions as a Windows PC but need a lot less CPU and Memory. And the cost to "license" Linux and the apps is a heck of a lot lower than MS products not to mention the GPL (and CDL) and not nearly as bad as the MS shrinkware licenses.

    4. Re:Their main market? by Nordrick+Framelhamme · · Score: 3, Insightful
      They are doing this because M$' entire business model is based on SELLING their OS and/or application suites.

      As the market reaches saturation point, as it likely has given how long Windows eXPploitable has been out, the income from such software starts to drop off. Therefore the income stream has to be boosted again by releasing a "new" product.

      By making it seem that the new OS ias more secure than the last, not really a hard task given M$'s track record thus fare, they hope to lure in the flashing lights and shiny dudads brigade, namely upper management dolts who have as much technical clue and the average ant and who are attracted to fake exteriors, as evidenced by the trophy wives on many arms. These PHB's fall for the vendors marketing slimeballs blather and the sales droids blandishments and force the IT department to roll out the whole unholy mess on the poor suffering masses that actually do the work.

    5. Re:Their main market? by ShieldW0lf · · Score: 4, Insightful

      ..and the workplace is really Windows' main market. I'm willing to guess that at least half their profits come from corporations. The question is, why do they seem to be switching targets?

      Their market isn't the workplace, it's PCs everywhere. That market is saturated with Windows, and their product will continue to go onto newly built PCs until and unless something that makes a suitable replacement comes along.

      That means they don't need to build new stuff for the user. They will get their money anyways. They're going to keep getting paid for Windows licenses as long as Windows remains the dominant platform with no more functionality than they have now.

      What they ARE doing is selling their users out to media companies. They are getting paid by those companies to put support for powerful DRM on every computer around the planet so there will exist a market for DRM media. They are getting paid for this as added revenue on top of the "Windows and Office" tax.

      They believe that they can get paid by third parties to design Windows so it will intentionally fuck over the people who use it and we will still buy it same as always.

      Chances are, they are right.

      --
      -1 Uncomfortable Truth
    6. Re:Their main market? by techno-vampire · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You must have worked for a very strange company. From what I can see, the developers normally get big muscular machines (by then current standards) so they can do their work faster. Then, they design programs and systems that only work acceptably on their machines, not on those the target audience is expected to have.

      --
      Good, inexpensive web hosting
    7. Re:Their main market? by rm69990 · · Score: 3, Informative

      I would say that if MS is correct in asserting that vista won't need A/V software, which I highly doubt, that would justify an upgrade. I hope you're kidding, as Jim Alchin promptly disputed that he said anything to that effect, and it was shown that he didn't.

      http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20061111-8199 .html

      The state of internet journalism is truly pathetic.
    8. Re:Their main market? by livewire98801 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The only thing that I've really noticed between Office 2000, XP and 2003 is the UI keeps changing. The program seems to work exactly the same, after checking a few boxes in 2k that are default in 2k3.

      OTOH, this UI changing has been slowly driving me mad. Seems like the only thing MS does on releasing a new version of Outlook (or any of the other Office apps) is make the edges softer on the UI and move all the menu items around! I can see restructuring the menu if your functionality demands it, but it seems that's all MS does!

      --
      "He may be mad, but there's method in his madness. [...] It's what drives men mad, being methodical." G.K.Chesterton
  3. Vista is the new ME by From+A+Far+Away+Land · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "article about a study indicating how few corporate computers now deployed are capable of running Windows Vista"

    That's exactly the point. They want businesses to toss away the old computers and buy new ones with Vista. The know that if they try and release Vista into the public market first, it will flop as badly as ME did because it brings no significant improvements over XP, while it takes away features, and adds bad things like PVP DRM.

    1. Re:Vista is the new ME by From+A+Far+Away+Land · · Score: 3, Informative

      "That's all well and good, but what features exactly were taken away in Vista that were found in XP?"
      It won't work on computers already in place in businesses, so that's a heck of a feature retraction. I consider backward hardware compatibility an important feature.

        "How is playback of encrypted content a bad thing? Is there some magic mechanism which disables your ability to play unencrypted content?"
      It's called DRM. Protected Video Path will one day require users to have a certain new monitor to play their store bought movies and video content. When Microsoft and software vendors decide what you get to play unencrypted on your computer, it's not even your own computer anymore.

    2. Re:Vista is the new ME by shywolf9982 · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Microsoft saw that newer machines were largely going to waste with CPU usage below even 1% so they decided that they could utilize more of it and make the user experience more enjoyable.

      However I agree with your post, I have to correct you on this issue:

      1. average cpu utilization will be as low as it currently is with vista. Effects are calculated when actually someone does something (like moving windows, pulling down menus and whatever else), not if the computer is idle.
      2. so effects are drawn when the cpu gets busy, hence not alleviating at all the "burst effect" we currently see on cpu usage
      3. the burst effect isn't bad at all (see cpu freq scaling)
      4. all the effects calculation are made using the 3d power of the GPU through direct3d
      5. effects were added because users like it. I've been using XGL and AIGLX for several months, and now everytime i fall back onto a non-accelerated desktop I feel bad (btw, you don't know how addictive the rotating desktop and/or wobbly windows can become)
      --
      nbody2002:If you can read this you may be addicted to the internet
    3. Re:Vista is the new ME by RobertLTux · · Score: 4, Informative

      did you hapen to know that bitlocker is basically volume level DRM? so that means if any of the following happens

      1 you lose the password to the account and your "root" admin gets run over by a bus
      2 some random Zero day borks the account
      3 a DDOS on the authentication server burns your block of COA serials
      4 Microsoft just one day "decides" that your system is unauthorized (maybe you are in Their way)

      You are shall we say "traversing the proverbial polluted tributary without visible means of propulsion" or "afixed via a rotated metal rod with a spiral fin"

      --
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    4. Re:Vista is the new ME by Foolhardy · · Score: 4, Interesting
      That's all well and good, but what features exactly were taken away in Vista that were found in XP?
      The backup program has been nerfed, for one. I'll summarize what I posted on the Shell: revealed forums (a forum set up by MS late in Vista development to get feedback on the RCs) as of RC2 that Vista Backup (stclt.exe) can't do but ntbackup.exe from previous versions of Windows (which is not included and not compaitble with Vista) could:
      • You can't actually select the files you want to back up. You have to pick an ambigious category of files or back up the entire hard disk.
      • You can't backup EFS encrypted files, either in their raw format or unencrypted. NTBackup could archive the encrypted form, for use with seperately archived keys.
      • It's unclear if it backs up extended attributes, alternate file streams, security descriptors, reparse points, and hardlinks.
      • It can't back up registry hives, except in a full-system backup.
      • The scheduling options are much less flexible than before.
      • You can only include local (not network) files in an archive.
      • The help is awful: there are at least two different hyperlink-in-dialog style help links that both go to a single generic FAQ that doesn't actually include the linked questions.
      • You can only back up to DVD or network, or for non-full backups: CD. Nothing else. You can't put the archive on another hard disk. NTBackup let you put the archive anywhere. The question of why you can't use a HD is one of the unanswered question links.
      • You need admin access to back up your OWN files. Another unanswered question link pretends to offer the rationale for this.
      • Vista backup doesn't seem to have any command line support. NTBackup had tons.
    5. Re:Vista is the new ME by Scudsucker · · Score: 3, Informative

      That's an interesting view of reality you have there. You believe Microsoft invented the hardware restrictions that the MPAA and RIAA are trying to force down our throats?

      Hmm. Palladium. Product activation. Windows Genuine Advantage. Plays for Sure. Microsoft has been pushing DRM (weren't they the ones who came up with the term?) with or without the backing of the AA's for years.

      Backwards compatibility is not a feature, if you're going to complain about it then let's have a discussion about computers unable to run SUSE 10.1. Why can't I run it on my 386? or my 486?

      Because that's a dumb comparison. No one wants to run a new operating system on a 20 year old processor. However, plenty of people will want to be able to run new operating systems on three to four year old hardware - hardware that was new during Longhorn's/Vista's development. What's so unreasonable about that?

  4. Corporate America Not Ready For Vista by Bradac_55 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    How's that different from Win2K and WinXP? Same thing happened then. Microsoft's monopoly isn't on good software it's there ability to tie up all the major hardware vendors into all or nothing licenses to push Windows on new computer sales. It must be another slow news day.

  5. From the Captain Obvious department by ScrewMaster · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The article notes that the need to upgrade hardware "could... mean that organizations will hold off upgrading to Windows Vista until their next hardware refresh."

    Well ... duh.

    --
    The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    1. Re:From the Captain Obvious department by aj50 · · Score: 4, Insightful
      This is exactly the point the article is missing.

      Vista needs to be out now, so that next time people roll round to a hardware refresh, Vista is available.

      Why do people seem to think that this is dumb?

      --
      I wish to remain anomalous
  6. J. Random CIO's thoughts: by paeanblack · · Score: 4, Insightful

    1) My users are finally getting comfortable with XP.

    2) My staff doesn't need the hassles of a mixed environment right now.

    3) I'm not seeing what Vista will actually *do* for me over XP.

    4) I don't the the budget headroom for an off-cycle hardware overhaul.

    5) I'm unwilling to perform the carnal acts necessary to get that extra funding.

    6) I'm not deploying another MS OS before the first service pack.

    1. Re:J. Random CIO's thoughts: by afidel · · Score: 3, Informative

      3) I'm not seeing what Vista will actually *do* for me over XP.
      Bitlocker for laptops
      Better power management via group policy for desktops, just to name two biggies
      5) I'm unwilling to perform the carnal acts necessary to get that extra funding.
      Unless you need hardware upgrades there likely won't be a funding need since the upgrade is likely covered under your SA agreement.
      6) I'm not deploying another MS OS before the first service pack.
      This one if completely legit =)

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
  7. What about... by postmortem · · Score: 5, Funny

    Corporate Africa? Are they ready?

    1. Re:What about... by Almahtar · · Score: 3, Funny

      They've all got Ubuntu :-)

  8. Spend $ on Vista, or on necessities? My choice. by lancejjj · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Upgrading to Vista from our current XP standard is a non-starter. There is no way that I'm interested in upsetting my worker's day-to-day productivity by having a desktop admin perform an upgrade. If my employees cost me $500/day each (with salary, benefits, and per-employee expenses such as office space), and they lose a day's worth of productivity, then upgrading to Vista is an extreme waste of money (since I don't see any benefit).

    I'm sure I'll start to move to Vista once I start procuring new hardware. But I have good equipment now. The benefit of brand new Desktop PC's for my people isn't clear at all to me. I'll replace my old equipment once it makes sense to do so, but I'm not going to drop $2000 on a new desktop until I can see a clear benefit in doing so. I'd rather allocate that money to something that can make a real difference to operations (like bonuses).

    Maybe I'll see a Vista productivity benefit in six months - or maybe in two years. But right now, I say "no way" to an upgrade - it looks like a money sink to me.

  9. TCO is waaaay out of line. by pair-a-noyd · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The OS itself is priced way out of line but then when you factor in all new hardware, it's insane.
    I've talked to several customers of mine and many of them just bought new machines in the last 18 months.
    They have no intentions of replacing them all over again just to run this new OS that's not all that revolutionary.
    I'll bet that's the general consensus. In general of course.

  10. we are holding off by p51d007 · · Score: 5, Informative

    Our company isn't in any hurry to upgrade, nor are a lot of companies I talk to. Most like ours, have spent a lot of capital in the last 24 months upgrading from NT4 to XP, from Office 2000 to Office 2003. We have XP tweaked out, locked down, patched up and running perfectly, sort of the way we had NT4/Office2000 tweaked. If we were to upgrade to Vista, to get the same performance, we would have to dump an extra 512 meg of ram into every box, since we have them running 512meg now. XP for our purposes runs pretty well with 512 meg of ram, but on a couple of test boxes, 512 meg with Vista is like running XP on 256. Yeah it runs, but you do a lot of swapping. For now, we are holding off on Vista/Office07, until at the earliest Q2 of 07. Any NEW computers bought/built, will be built with an OS update in mind, but will come configured with XP, NOT Vista.

  11. Good news! by gweihir · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Personally, I think the Vista requirements are insane for business machines. They are pretty stupid even for gaming machines. I have no idea how they are going to build Vista-ready laptops that actually get some hours of battery life. There is no need for these specs, except that MS needs to give users a ''new experience'' by any means necessary, since theri business model is fundamentally flawed.

    What MS forgets, or has to ignore, is that a PC is a tool. A tool schould behave the same over a long time. You don't want a new ''experience'' every few years. You want to mater the tool once and then keep using it for a very long time. Hence you want it to work the same over a very long time.

    This will prompt more people to look for alternatives to MSes greed and insanity.

    --
    Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
  12. Re:Why release to business first? by dan828 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The big reason for pushing out the business editions first was because MS sold a lot of Software Assurance licenses with the understanding that Vista upgrades would be included. The first licenses are going to begin expiring this month, so MS would have been in the position of having to extend those licenses to meet their promises. The enterprise sector would have looked on software assurance for the OS as being just a bill of goods that MS was trying to sell them if Vista hadn't shipped within the license date.

  13. "Premium Edition"? by Jugalator · · Score: 4, Informative

    94% of corporate PCs are not ready for Vista Premium Edition

    1. There is no such thing as a "Vista Premium Edition".
    2. If they mean the closest -- "Vista Home Premium Edition", that's not supposed to be a common Vista edition for corporations.
    3. Are these talking about meeting recommendations or requirements? I see few corporations being willing to run Aero Glass, and without that, you can easily get by with 512 MB or 1 GB RAM and no special graphics card to speak of (assuming it meets XP requirements).

    --
    Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
  14. Re:Vista is Broken in Many Ways by mpapet · · Score: 4, Informative

    Let's start with some facts:

    Vista's *six* SKU's are sold in various states of disabledness. For example, if you want to use a DVD burner, you must upgrade. Hmmm,.no matter the version of XP you could use a DVD burner... That's just one of many restrictions.

    Let's move to your clearly uninformed question: "Is there some magic mechanism which disables your ability to play unencrypted content?"

    Why, yes there is! The latest WMP phones home to MS when you play a song and catalogs your content. When the inevitable OS reinstall happens and you attempt to play the same songs you get some bad news. It seems it's okay to play the music on that "other" OS install, but not this one. You agree to this when you click-through licenses. Here's a link to a guy that experienced it. http://www.bandddesigns.com/blogger/arch/002942.ht ml
    Here's Microsoft's SDK http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url= /library/en-us/wmpsdk11/mmp_sdk/glossary.asp Search the term "component enforces those rights." on the page.

    Now, Microsoft and their media friends are taking away your right to first sale as secretly as possible. Vista will help them meet that end very nicely. Set top boxes and a variety of media subscription models will help greatly as well. Add in dragging some children into court and consider it done.

    I assure you, this is only the beginning. Please consider using another OS that ensures your current freedoms. Many Linux distros are good,

    I'm sure the above-average PHB senses this anyway. Which is part of the reason the Vista uptake will be so slow.

    --
    http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
  15. Power Use? by twitter · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Proposed justification of Visat/Hardware purchase:

    How about less power use by the newest generation of CPUs and hard drives, when a company has 1000's of Desktops that power bill is a factor.

    "Vista Ready" machines are going to suck more power, not less. The demand much greater clock rates, video support and RAM. Compare this to the average coporate network full of PIIIs more or less. "Vista Premium" of course is much worse.

    I'll believe the better power management hype when I see it in operation. If M$ cared about your electric bill, ACPI and WOL would already work. When I can buy a desktop from Dell that works that way, I'll say it's about time.

    --

    Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.

    1. Re:Power Use? by twitter · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Faster CPUs these days are comsuming LESS Power, Memory is consuming less but not as much so as CPUs, Hard Drives are smaller and use less energy (smaller = less mass = less energy to get to speed) ...

      This has always been the case, but power requirements for Microsoft systems have climbed from 150 to 500 watts over the last fifteen years. Most of it has been driven by Microsoft bloat, which has delivered the same features at ever greater clock cycle cost. I'm writing this on a PII laptop. Debian Etch runs well on it but XP won't even install. At the same time, I doubt you can show me a Vista ready laptop that uses less than 50 watts as this one does.

      The most important thing missing from your list is GPUs which can consume up to 350 watts on their own. If you are going to Vista, you are doing it for games and eye candy and want a super card. Vista computers are going to suck power, as the usual M$ upgrade does.

      Outside the M$ world, people are doing more with less. Playstation manages to provide outstanding graphics while Xbox is setting carpets on fire.

      --

      Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.

  16. To me, Vista needs one key thing. by CFD339 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    There are some things Vista could have that would really draw me in. Sadly, I can't seem to find out if any of these are part of the product or not. In posting this, I'm hoping someone can either answer or point me to an answer for some of the questions.

    Number one on my Windows Vista wish list is that they virtualize the screen more.

    What I want is actually very simple. I want to tell Windows - in one place - that my screen resolution is not 72dpi, but is in fact 125dpi. Once that is accomplished, all Windows elements should be scaled to that result.

    For any application which does not specify drawing size, but rather specifies pixels - the new AERO graphics engine should do a simple calculation "X pixels * (125 / 72) = Y pixels" and draw it as Y. For fonts and other "vector" based drawing objects, this should be even easier as the curve calculations are already based on this kind of math.

    If this is done properly, an 8pt font will take up the same physical area on a high resolution monitor as it does on a low resolution monitor. What's more, it will fit properly in buttons because the number of pixels on the button have been properly sized and should match.

    Some people may WANT that optimized screen real estate. That's easily handled. They just need to set the DPI setting on back to 72, and their ultra-sharp tiny little fonts will be right back again. The only thing that could suffer - in theory - is looking at pictures. If something is supposed to be 10 pixels, it ends up being 17.36 for me. Rounding is where you get the "fuzzy" aspect.

    Why does this matter? Right now, I'm looking at a 19" monitor which is optimized for 1280 by 1024 pixel resolution. The laptop is more extreme. It's a 17" monitor that is 1920 by 1080. Making some simple assumptions that the pixels are square and aligned uniformly (which they are not, actually) the two monitors come out to about 86 and 125 pixels per inch respectively.

    LCD screens are not like the bulky old "tube" based screens. The pixels aren't projected onto a phosphor screen; they are actual hardware - like little light bulbs. If you decrease the display resolution, you're getting less crisp representation at each point than you would at the optimize resolution because the dots themselves cannot change size. They must therefore be approximated.

    Where this becomes a problem is that many aspects of the Windows screen are designed to be a set number of pixels in height or width. The unit of measure is in pixels, not inches. This includes fonts, title bars, buttons, icons, and all kinds of other things. Much of the time, Windows doesn't know how many of those pixels fit on a linear inch of screen space on my screen. What people don't realize is that the old standard has been to assume about 72dpi for screen resolution. That means on my laptop, with nearly twice that resolution, things tend to be on half the ideal size.

    --
    The problem with quotes on the internet, is that nobody bothers to check their veracity. -- Abraham Lincoln
  17. Uhh, by ElephanTS · · Score: 4, Funny

    Microsoft isn't ready for Vista, let alone corporate America.

    --
    spoonerize "magic trackpad"
  18. CPUs Jumped The Shark by FFFish · · Score: 3, Insightful

    circa the 200MHz era. Except for gaming, these CPUs were quite fast enough for word processing, accounting, internet access, email, etceteras.

    Faster CPUs have given us more glitz. I'm not convinced they've given us more functionality: Word 2007 doesn't do a whole helluva lot more than Word 6, MSIE 7 doesn't do a whole lot more than MSIE 3, not in terms of true-blue functionality.

    So I can easily imagine most businesses are in no rush to upgrade their machines en masse. Why should they? They're just gonna end up spending thousands of dollars in new hardware, software, re-training for the new software, and endless technical support as the bugs are ironed out of the new network and installations.

    Vista is rightfully regarded by most businesses as an obvious case of a high-risk foot-meets-bullet fuckup just waiting to pounce on the dummy who decides to champion the idea of upgrading.

    --

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  19. Re:Yea, but when is any company ready? by jc42 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    So, remind me which corporations of notable size are known to be early adopters?

    Well, I recently finished a project at a rather large corporation (which I'll mercifully not name here) that hasn't quite finished upgrading all its W95 machines to W98. They also have a few NT machines, mostly in the IT dept.

    No, I'm not joking. And this isn't the first case like this that I've seen.

    Funny thing was that the project I worked on involved migrating software from a big IBM mainframe to a flock of distributed unix servers. Talk about having one foot in each world.

    --
    Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.