Slashdot Mirror


Stallman Absolves Novell

A few days ago we linked the transcript of Richard Stallman's talk at the Tokyo GPLv3 meeting . Now bubulubugoth writes to point us to an analysis of what Stallman said in Tokyo. In particular, these quotes: "Microsoft has not given Novell a patent license, and thus, section 7 of the GPL version 2 does not come into play. Instead, Microsoft offered a patent license that is rather limited to Novell's customers alone." And, apparently resolving the conundrum of whether GPLv2 and GPLv3 licenses can be commingled: "There's no difficulty in having some programs in the system under GPL2 and other programs under GPL3."

14 of 101 comments (clear)

  1. Shame on you Slashdot.. by QuantumG · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Doesn't seem logical but Novell won't discuss it preferring, it says, to wait and see what happens in the GPL3 negotiations, clinging to the notion that Stallman and company - anarchist fanatics said to be cut from the same all-or-nothing cloth as suicide bombers - won't do anything to derail Linux. Quite apart from the partial title, which is misrepresentative of the article, why would you post a link to anything that contained statements like this?

    --
    How we know is more important than what we know.
    1. Re:Shame on you Slashdot.. by MarkByers · · Score: 4, Funny

      why would you post a link to anything that contained statements like this?

      I'm guessing it's for the hits. Hits = advertising dollars. Controversial articles are often more popular.

      Or maybe they just didn't read the article.

      --
      I'll probably be modded down for this...
    2. Re:Shame on you Slashdot.. by Otter · · Score: 4, Funny

      Between this and "Clinton Prosecutor Now Targeting Free Speech", they're really off to a quick start for a Sunday morning, no?

    3. Re:Shame on you Slashdot.. by bmo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "Quite apart from the partial title, which is misrepresentative of the article, why would you post a link to anything that contained statements like this?"

      Because I guess that the editors know nothing about sys-con. I had sys-con blackholed for a while and last time I cleaned my hosts file, I took them out. Looks like they're up to their same old BS. Sys-Con (system of a con) is a troll organization and most of what I have ever read WRT their attitude toward Linux and the GPL in general has been inaccurate and just plain nonsense. There was _no_ "absolution" of Novell. There was a "It's a good thing they did this now, so we can disallow it in V3." Even the title of the article is a troll. They publish articles "for the clicks and the lulz" like Dan "Lyin'" Lyons and Rob "I'll give a keynote speech for SCO World drunk" Enderle. How articles like that wind up on Slashdot? The editors don't do the least amount of due-diligence - not even a cursory reading of the articles themselves, apparently.

      --
      BMO

  2. Stallman's entire comment on novell's deal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative
    Sorry for the karma whoring, but the article seems to imply that RMS thinks that there's nothing wrong with Novel's deal, which is not quite the case, as can be seed below.

    However, there's another way of using software patents to threaten the users which we have just seen an example of. That is, the Novell-Microsoft deal. What has happened is, Microsoft has not given Novell a patent licence, and thus, section 7 of GPL version 2 does not come into play. Instead, Microsoft offered a patent licence that is rather limited to Novell's customers alone.

    It turns out that perhaps it's a good thing that Microsoft did this now, because we discovered that the text we had written for GPL version 3 would not have blocked this, but it's not too late and we're going to make sure that when GPL version 3 really comes out it will block such deals. We were already concerned about possibilities like this, namely, the possibility that a distributor might receive a patent licence which did not explicitly impose limits on downstream recipients but simply failed to protect them.

    What if one company pays Microsoft for a patent licence where Microsoft says "Alright, we won't sue you, but we're just not making any promises about your customers if they redistribute it". We had already written a downstream shielding provision into GPL version 3 saying that if you convey the program, and you are benefitting from a patent licence that is not available, that does not extend to the downstream users, then you have to do something to shield them.

    This is, it turns out, inadequate in two ways. First of all, "shielding them" is vague. We're replacing that with a specific list of methods, and second, once again it assumes that the distributor has received a patent licence, so the Microsoft/Novell deal cunningly does not give Novell the patent licence, only Novell's customers.

    Well, now that we have seen this possibility, we're not going to have trouble drafting the language that will block it off. We're going to say not just that if you receive the patent licence, but if you have arranged any sort of patent licensing that is prejudicial among the downstream recipients, that that's not allowed. That you have to make sure that the downstream recipients fully get the freedoms that they're supposed to have. The precise words, we haven't figured out yet. That's what Eben Moglen is working on now.
  3. Stallman Absolves Novell. Absolves? by zotz · · Score: 4, Informative

    As in, really did find a loophole that let's them legally stab everyone in the back? One that we will be sure to fix in v3 and then they can't play such games anymore.

    That kind of absolves, or did he say they what they did was perfectly fine and such practices will be ok going forward?

    Just asking.

    all the best,

    drew

    --
    FreeMusicPush If you want to see more Free Music made, listen to Free
  4. irresponsible journalism by idlake · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Doesn't seem logical but Novell won't discuss it preferring, it says, to wait and see what happens in the GPL3 negotiations, clinging to the notion that Stallman and company - anarchist fanatics said to be cut from the same all-or-nothing cloth as suicide bombers - won't do anything to derail Linux.

    This statement is ambiguous; is it saying that Novell made these statements about Stallman, or is it the journalist's own statement?

    Either way, likening someone who takes a principled stand on intellectual property to "suicide bombers" is highly irresponsible. By the same reasoning, you might liken the Founding Fathers, Microsoft Management, or the US Supreme Court to "anarchist fanatics ... suicide bombers".

    This sort of shitty journalism shouldn't be rewarded with ad impressions.

  5. Re:Comingling by LiquidCoooled · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Of course they can be compiled together.
    Distributing that executable to the public is where the problems start...

    --
    liqbase :: faster than paper
  6. Mod parent up by matt+me · · Score: 5, Funny

    We now need a new tag, shittyjournalism.

  7. Move along! by albertost · · Score: 4, Funny

    DELETE FROM articles WHERE date = 06/12/02 AND id = 2259227;

  8. What's the big deal with forking? by bl8n8r · · Score: 4, Insightful

    FTFA: ".. will create a schism in the open source community and fork Linux."

    What's the big problem with a fork? So you have Microvell Linux and the real Linux.

    Microvell Lizard Linux is going to be a pregnant toad injected full of politics, DRM and Microsoft IP. Microsoft will have the option that way of killing it then with litigation, or letting it stick around to sell to Windows people that think they are smart switching to (MLL) Linux.

    The real Linux will still be around, minus whatever Microsoft pays the courts to tell everyone they can't use anymore. The inevitability of all this is approaching like a garbage truck, so what is the problem with forking? M$ has been preparing for this for a long time buying up patents and everything else. Beginning over with a forked code base may be the only alternative. Either that, or put all your computer gear in front of the garbage truck and let it have it's way.

    Novell, we smell poniez: http://techp.org/

    --
    boycott slashdot February 10th - 17th check out: altSlashdot.org
  9. Re:trying to care... by bmo · · Score: 4, Interesting

    "I never really found a use for SUSE before, still haven't now. I use Gentoo. About as far off that I'll go is Fedora, and even then it's only for work. That RMS approves of it, or that it fits with GPLv3 doesn't really matter. RMS doesn't use SUSE. Why does he care?"

    Because there are programmers at Novell that write stuff that winds up in _all_ distributions. Don't forget that Novell has the Mono and Ximian crew. Other distributions using Mono and Ximian software are downstream from Novell (such as Gentoo). Since Microsoft is saying "we won't sue you or your customers, but we're thinking about suing other people" tells everyone else that maybe they're tainted because they've got code that Novell employees wrote for Gnome and Mono. Whether that matters or not remains to be seen, but the chair throwing howler monkey that is Steve Ballmer has everyone involved with this stuff looking askance, to say the least.

    So just because you're not a SuSE user doesn't mean that you're unaffected.

    "0 right to use as you see fit
    1 right to share
    2 right to modify
    3 right to share modifications"

    You forgot

    4. Right to restrict downstream users/programmers rights, which the downstream doesn't participate in 0 through 3.

    Suppose I make AnAwesomeProgram and distribute it freely under the BSD license, thus releasing it to the world uninhibited. SomeoneElse comes along, takes the code he didn't write, adds some trivial functionality, and resells for $$$$, but doesn't allow his customers the same rights he had (thou shalt not reverse engineer, thou shalt not decompile, thou shalt not redistribute, thou shalt worship only me and live).

    To me, that would be unacceptable.

    In a perfect world, the BSD license would be ideal, but the world is neither perfect and not all people have good intentions, imo. That's why there's the GPL. The world is also full of choices, which is why there's more than just the GPL.

    --
    BMO

  10. Written by Maureen O'Gara! by KillerDwarfFromHades · · Score: 5, Informative

    It should be noted, since Sys-Con is hiding it as "by Linux News Desk", all articles with that by-line are written by none other than PJ-stalker Maureen O'Gara.

    The proof? It's currently the free article on Maureen's poorly-named LinuxGram website: http://www.linuxgram.com/

    That's all her.

    (For those who live in a cave, only surf for porn, etc., Maureen O'Gara wrote a slanderous piece about Groklaw's PJ, wherein she literally tried to stalk PJ, peeking in windows, generally making an ass of herself.)

    Sys-Con swore they'd never publish an O'Gara piece again. Good thing noone believed them, since they just hid her behind a "Linux News Desk".

    1. Re:Written by Maureen O'Gara! by _dani3l · · Score: 4, Informative

      It isn't James Turner who lied. He actually took a stand against the publisher demanding that Maureen O'Gara's material be removed from all of Sys-Con. If Sys-Con is publishing her again, it is the publisher, Fuat Kircaali, who went back on his commitment.

      Reference: Sys-Con Dumps Maureen O'Gara

      But at least one editor from LinuxWorld still resigned less than a week later: Another LinuxWorld Resignation