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EveryDNS Under Botnet DDoS Attack

mellow marsh writes "EveryDNS, sister company to OpenDNS (which runs the PhishTank anti-phishing initiative), has been hit by a massive distributed denial-of-service attack. The attack started sometime Friday afternoon and, from all indications, was targeting Web sites that used free DNS management services provided by EveryDNS. At the height of the DDoS bombardment, EveryDNS was being hit with more than 400mbps of traffic at each of its four locations around the world. From the article: '"We were collateral damage," Ulevitch explained... Because law enforcement is involved, Ulevitch was hesitant to release details of the actual target but there are signs that some of the targets were "nefarious domains" that have since been terminated.'" OpenDNS, which makes use of EveryDNS services, was affected for a time, until they spread their authoritative DNS more broadly. The EveryDNS site is now reporting that the attack is continuing but has been mitigated and is not affecting operations.

154 comments

  1. puppy by Feyr · · Score: 5, Funny

    /., like kicking a dead puppy.

    1. Re:puppy by TubeSteak · · Score: 1

      This is more like kicking your neighbor's dog, because you saw someone else do it.

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
  2. Suck it, spammers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This should be a collective "SUCK IT" to the spammers and phishers out there. Keep it up, EasyDNS!

    1. Re:Suck it, spammers by itsdave · · Score: 1

      everydns and easydns are two seperate dns services.

  3. COM != NET by 42Penguins · · Score: 2, Informative

    "The EveryDNS site is now reporting that the attack is continuing but has been mitigated and is not affecting operations." O Rly. I see it reporting a chunky man with bad hair holding an @. Please change link to everydns dot NET to continue the /. DDoS.

    1. Re:COM != NET by VoltageX · · Score: 1

      `tis probably a good thing that /. isn't adding to the DDOS

      --
      "Anonymous could not immediately be reached for further comment." - International Business Times
    2. Re:COM != NET by SaDan · · Score: 4, Informative

      What parent said. The main site is http://www.everydns.net/ not .com.

      Another quality, editor approved Slashdot story. Great job, guys.

    3. Re:COM != NET by benplaut · · Score: 1

      So you post it far up on the post que in /. Now it'll go down!

    4. Re:COM != NET by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      doesn't make a fucking sense.

  4. Poor engineering? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    At the height of the DDoS bombardment, EveryDNS was being hit with more than 400mbps of traffic at each of its four locations around the world.

    I would think that normal DNS operations would generate more than 400 millibits per second of traffic. How poorly designed ARE the EveryDNS sites?

    1. Re:Poor engineering? by techno-vampire · · Score: 1
      ...400 millibits per second of traffic...


      I would hope so. That would be 400/1000 bits of traffic per second. ITYM Megabits.

      --
      Good, inexpensive web hosting
    2. Re:Poor engineering? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      No, GP didn't. mbps == millibits. Mbps == megabits. MBps = megabytes. Read GP again, and pay attention.

    3. Re:Poor engineering? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      The problem is, EasyDNS could only afford an AOL dialup to put their servers up. On top of that, the "server", is really just an old Pentium MMX with 32megs of RAM running bind on top of cygwin on top of Windows 95. Unfortunately, the admin let his 16 year old sister use the machine to browse MySpace (and who knows what else), so let's just say the machine is running other "services" as well.

    4. Re:Poor engineering? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I swear... this generation's reading comprehension skills are sooo dead!

  5. Affected; Irony by Brendtron+5000 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This really made yesterday difficult for me.

    My comp sci networking class assignment was on my home server, and I use EasyDNS. Had to bus home and put it on a USB stick. Last day of class, and the end of a particularly brutal week.

    1. Re:Affected; Irony by vk2 · · Score: 2, Funny

      There is your free lesson in redundancy

      --
      No Sig for you.!
    2. Re:Affected; Irony by Brendtron+5000 · · Score: 1

      Oops, by EasyDNS I mean EveryDNS.

    3. Re:Affected; Irony by Technician · · Score: 1

      Had to bus home and put it on a USB stick. Last day of class, and the end of a particularly brutal week.


      Save some time and punch in the IP address instead of a URL and skip the DNS lookup.
      It's your server. Do you know your IP address?

      --
      The truth shall set you free!
    4. Re:Affected; Irony by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Its quite possible that his computer is on a dynamically assigned IP, and is using some sort of dynamic dns, no?

    5. Re:Affected; Irony by Technician · · Score: 1

      Its quite possible that his computer is on a dynamically assigned IP, and is using some sort of dynamic dns, no?

      Yes, however many ISP's do not reassign IP's very often except those using PPPOE which may "dial up quite often"

      --
      The truth shall set you free!
    6. Re:Affected; Irony by Brendtron+5000 · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately I did not know my IP at the time. Technically it's dynamically assigned, but it hasn't changed for years.

      I even tried checking the DNS caches of the machines I used at work to connect to the home server when it was working... but no luck.

  6. correct URL by barista · · Score: 3, Informative

    How about linking to the correct url?

    1. Re:correct URL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, if they are under a DDoS attack, there is no need to add salt to their wounds.

  7. Does that mean by Progman3K · · Score: 1

    That while they attack them there'll be less spam?

    --
    I don't know the meaning of the word 'don't' - J
  8. Heh by davidu · · Score: 5, Informative

    The site is EveryDNS.Net.

    I'll keep it up for Slashdot, let me just move it around a bit. :-)

    -david

    --

    # Hack the planet, it's important.
    1. Re:Heh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      You must be new...oh

    2. Re:Heh by fm6 · · Score: 1

      I have to ask: do you really make as living off of voluntary payments? Or do you have other revenue streams?

  9. Link To Them by Iriestx · · Score: 2, Funny

    Nothing helps out a site currently under a DDoS attack like being linked to on the front page of /.

    1. Re:Link To Them by WrongSizeGlass · · Score: 1

      Amen, brother.

  10. This is nothing short of organized crime by i+kan+reed · · Score: 1, Troll

    Like people who kill attorneys willing to prosecute those in the mafia. If any phishers can be found, I hope they get jailed for life.

    1. Re:This is nothing short of organized crime by crush · · Score: 1

      It looks like this is nothing to do with phishers/spammers trying to attack phish tank. It's a vigilante action against "nefarious sites", whatever the fuck those are. It explains the sudden burst in "lame server" messages I saw in my logs anyway. I hadn't realised how many people were using EasyDNS.

  11. Questions? by davidu · · Score: 5, Informative

    Since I've been getting a lot of questions from folks about EveryDNS, how we've been stable and around so long, how we dealt with this DDoS and how we manage to cover our costs I am writing a response that will probably be posted here on Slashdot tomorrow or Monday to answer all these questions.

    If you have questions about this or DDoS in general, feel free to ask them here and I'll make sure to cover them in my response. I'll be writing about what we've seen and what I generally do when it comes to soaking up traffic and how we handled this event in particular. (The short answer: find the smartest people you can to help you and then start taking corrective action)

    Thanks!

    David Ulevitch

    --

    # Hack the planet, it's important.
    1. Re:Questions? by TubeSteak · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Because law enforcement is involved, Ulevitch was hesitant to release details of the actual target but there are signs that some of the targets were "nefarious domains" that have since been terminated.
      What does that mean?
      Was this a 'righteous' attack on malicious websites?
      Or just some intramural warfare by one nefarious group upon another?
      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    2. Re:Questions? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      1) Where were you getting hit from (country, areas...)?
      2) This might be harder to tell, but what type of clients were hitting you (high speed home users, commercial end servers)?
      3) The poster said " 'We were collateral damage,' Ulevitch explained..." How so, and who was the primary target?

      Its not all too bad, just 4 days ago, I found out about OpenDNS. Great stuff, gave me a solution to my horrible ISP's (Charter Comm.) DNS servers. And until I saw this post, I didn't know about EveryDNS. Hopefully this will result in more donations.

    3. Re:Questions? by daeg · · Score: 1

      You may not be able to disclose this, but how many zones do you support and under what type of operating environment (OS, DNS software)? You often see debates of statistics of which DNS can more easily handle a lot of traffic, but your service has another problem on top of bandwidth: volume of zones. Have you experimented with the various packages and setups?

    4. Re:Questions? by davidu · · Score: 4, Interesting

      In short, the latter. Nothing is ever righteous when it comes to DDoS. :-)

      --

      # Hack the planet, it's important.
    5. Re:Questions? by Peter+Cooper · · Score: 1

      The stats are on the front page of their site:

      Global Stats:
      Accounts: 62357
      Domains: 103552
      Records: 292615

      The implementation details are in the FAQ and About. Without bothering to read them again, I think they use a modified tinydns.

    6. Re:Questions? by saleenS281 · · Score: 1

      I don't want this to come out the wrong way, but I know it'll probably get me flamed so I'll just spit it out. How exactly do you manage to go down from *only* 400Mbit/sec? No offense but that's not even a drop in the bucket in 2006 where it's commonplace to have a gigabit line running into one server. You guys really need to step back and take a look at your infrastructure if that's all it takes to go down. I realize this is somewhat a rhetorical question, to give you something easier to answer: What is your current infrastructure (although you may not want to say as it would give information to future attackers), and do you have a plan in place so that you can withstand what is in reality a tiny attack in the future?

    7. Re:Questions? by Beryllium+Sphere(tm) · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Bless you for offering to answer questions! That sort of cooperation is indispensable if security is going to improve.

      1. How did you manage the response? The one-smart-person-in-charge-who-stays-awake-the-who le-time approach? The small-team-with-independent-responsibilities model? The review-what-happened-at-shift-change model?

      2. What tactics worked, and even more important, what didn't work?

      3. What sort of agreements should people have in place with their upstream ISP prior to an incident?

      4. How intelligent was the attack traffic? Randomized payload? Does anyone bother spoofing addresses any more?

      5. Was it a guided attack or a fire and forget? In other words, did the scum make any changes to their tactics in real time as you tried corrective action?

      6. What if anything can be done in the first few minutes/hours?

      7. If you had to choose between capacity and filtering, which would you choose?

    8. Re:Questions? by daeg · · Score: 1

      I'll have to check again when this has passed, I couldn't get pages to load at work. Thanks.

    9. Re:Questions? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I didn't even know EveryDNS existed until this. I really need a secondary DNS servers for my domain, and most places charge way too much for a simple service.

      Unfortunately, your setup page to use EveryDNS as a secondary is broken, so I'm out of luck for now. Pls fix, will donate.

    10. Re:Questions? by Dryanta · · Score: 1

      No, it is NOT common for anything not incredibly critical to be on a gige line. Some people can afford tier 1 colo centers, most cannot. Even if you can afford the gige pipe, you most likely cannot afford the overage on your commit with all that traffic you have not expected and engineered coming at you. I have been dossed before, and it causes outages and huge bills.

    11. Re:Questions? by davidu · · Score: 3, Informative

      4x400mbps == 1200mbps at times.

      That's less trivial to filter, especially when your upstream isn't being cooperative. In our case, which you'll read about tomorrow or Monday, we quickly were able to jump onto a network run by some folks with very very high levels of clue; nLayer operated by Richard Steenbergen. Their website is cheesy -- don't let it fool you. They are a seriously run network providing transit across the country to a bunch of other networks. Check routeviews for proof.

      -david

      --

      # Hack the planet, it's important.
    12. Re:Questions? by IO+ERROR · · Score: 1

      My domain whose DNS is hosted at everydns.net suffered briefly during this attack, but I didn't see any major problems. All the mail came through, for instance.

      --
      How am I supposed to fit a pithy, relevant quote into 120 characters?
    13. Re:Questions? by walt-sjc · · Score: 1

      Our colo ISP (in San Jose) uses nLayer, and we ran into a problem where Verizon had a broken route to our east coast office for several weeks (looping between two Verizon routers.) Verizon was totally non-responsive, so nLayer manually advertised an alternate route that got things flowing again within a few minutes of reporting the problem.

      As a sidenote, everydns hosts macports.org which was affected by the DDOS. Even though macports also had two other working DNS servers besides the 4 from everydns, I had to manually query them to get the IP and use the IP instead. Having multiple DNS servers does not give you as much redundancy as it really should. :-(

    14. Re:Questions? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Holy cow, 18?

  12. Real ripple effects, even from this small event. by ScentCone · · Score: 5, Insightful

    A client (a pretty large retail chain) was using EveryDNS for forward lookups to the mail server's A record. Mail they were sending out started to bounce because receiving mail servers weren't happy when trying to validate the sending box. In once case, a vital piece of mail sent to a state taxing authority couldn't get through on a month-end calendar deadline, causing much grief. Yes, alternate communcations channels are always an option, but it wasn't immediately clear why the two mail servers in question appeared to be hating each other.

    Worse, the state government box's spam filtering appliance blacklisted the retailer's server, and a third party admin had to get involved to free things up. Quite a mess.

    But the real lesson? People who say that a "cyber attack" couldn't really hurt the economy are wrong, wrong, wrong. This stuff can be really disruptive, and this was a pissant little scaled-down example. No major damage, but a lot of thrashing around, untold manhours of lost productivity, and (in the case of the anecdote in question, involving just one retail company), probably some tax fines which will require much tail chasing to get waived once the the story is clearly told, assuming the state government in question is feeling sporting about it.

    --
    Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
  13. "nefarious domain" is a loaded and subjective term by plasmacutter · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What is "nefarious"?

    to some.. the pirate bay and allofmp3 are "nefarious domains"..

    to others "www.f**Ktimewarner.com" and "walmartsucks.com" are "nefarious domains"

    and to others "www.wikipedia.org" and "www.aclu.org" are "nefarious domains".

    I have a lot of trouble with the idea that DDOS attacks were being carried out in (apparently successful) attempts to wipe domains off the face of the earth..

    this implies the attackers had no legal standing to take those domains offline.. then they call them "nefarious" after the fact.

    --
    VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
  14. What's the motive? by Jotii · · Score: 1

    What reason could there be for botnet owners to attack EveryDNS? I can't see that they'd gain anything from it.

    --
    [sig]
    1. Re:What's the motive? by ScentCone · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What reason could there be for botnet owners to attack EveryDNS? I can't see that they'd gain anything from it.

      It's an indirect attack against people who use EveryDNS to get traffic to their own sites (or mail servers, etc). If you ran, say, an online casino, and your main competition for a particular type of customer happened to have EveryDNS doing their forward lookups... and you could shut down your competition for at least a full business day by torpedoing the DNS they need to be seen - presto, done. EveryDNS wasn't the target, their customers were the target.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
  15. Re:Real ripple effects, even from this small event by bky1701 · · Score: 1

    Your "ripple effect" sounds more like bad code on the side of the sites being effected. The protocol shoud be secure on a technical level and not rely on laws to protect it, because no matter how fascit you want the internet to be, you can never control it all.

    I could cause a lot more problems and not do anything illegal. Shoud those acts be illegal because of a butterfly effect caused by bad programming? Get real, please.

  16. Botnet? Cal it what it is! by Chris+Tucker · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Compromised Windows machines network.

    Where are the class action suits against Microsoft for continually producing such flawed software that makes it easy to 0wn a box?

    If it wasn't for 20 some years of MS indifference towards security, there wouldn't be botnets like this, being used for DDOS attacks and forwarding billions of spams a day.

    --
    Guaranteed! This comment 100% Anthrax free!
    1. Re:Botnet? Cal it what it is! by ewl1217 · · Score: 1
    2. Re:Botnet? Cal it what it is! by NineNine · · Score: 0

      If it wasn't for 20 some years of MS indifference towards security, there wouldn't be botnets like this, being used for DDOS attacks and forwarding billions of spams a day.

      Uh, wrong. No software is completely secure, especially something as complicated as an operating system. This would still be happening, except it would be on Unix/OS2/Apple boxes instead of Windows. Get over it.

    3. Re:Botnet? Cal it what it is! by tomstdenis · · Score: 1

      That's because Windows is so "user friendly." Unfortunately, what most users want to do with their computers is TOTALLY INSECURE.

      This of course doesn't help the remote exploits, buffer overflos [in file formats] and other problems that are totally native to MS [and go unfix for random amounts of time]. Not that bugs don't happen in the OSS world, but they tend to be fixed faster, and a larger portion of OSS users are more aware of secure computing practices [e.g. not running as root, not opening every f'ing attachment, not running IE...].

      If people just learned thing one about their computers they wouldn't be such easy pray for every script kiddie asshat loser troll with a cause.

      And of course, folk like MSFT are just all too happy to oblige their ignorance.

      Tom

      --
      Someday, I'll have a real sig.
    4. Re:Botnet? Cal it what it is! by Phroggy · · Score: 1

      Linux botnets don't get as much publicity, but they do exist; my own server fell prey once when I did something stupid, and I only found out about it when I got a spam complaint forwarded by my ISP.

      --
      $x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
      $x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
    5. Re:Botnet? Cal it what it is! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Since when is 'not user friendly' a feature? This smells like Microsoft marketing, but it's coming from OSS people now. We don't let people who aren't geeks use our software.

      Me, I'm a geek who uses Windows. I do computer fixes for a living, and I need to be intimately familiar with the systems my clients use, which are almost 100% Microsoft. Yet, despite running such 'inherently flawed software,' I haven't had a virus/trojan on one of my boxes. Ever. Turns out geeks are secure, regardless of what OS they use. We know how to put up firewalls, install AV software, recognize scams and evil email attachments.

      News flash: Ignorant people are easy to take advantage of. The fact that MS is user friendly enough to let stupid users on isn't a reason to bash them. There are many reasons, but not that.

      *Waits to get modded -1 [Microsoft]*

    6. Re:Botnet? Cal it what it is! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh for pete sake, the problem isn't just microsoft. The people using the compromised computers just don't care/aren't knowlageble enough to stop it. With remote exploitable holes in OpenSSH I would think it was apparent that every computer system on earth has security holes from time to time. If you never patch, and don't care when your system has obviously been pwned, then you too can be part of a botnet.

    7. Re:Botnet? Cal it what it is! by Chris+Tucker · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      However, compared to the tens of thousands of 0wned Windows boxes, 0wned Linux boxes are what, a fraction of a percent of the Windows zombies?

      And you weer able to fix it. Try fixing a zombiefied Windows machine, short of pulling the infected drive and replacing it with a fresh, virgin drive.

      Which will be 0wned after 30 minutes connected to the Net, due to the POS that is Windows, coupled with the ignorance of the bog-standard Windows luser.

      --
      Guaranteed! This comment 100% Anthrax free!
    8. Re:Botnet? Cal it what it is! by Chris+Tucker · · Score: 1

      "And you weer able to fix it."

      What is this, "The Preview Button", you speak of?

      These words confuse me!

      --
      Guaranteed! This comment 100% Anthrax free!
    9. Re:Botnet? Cal it what it is! by Beryllium+Sphere(tm) · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Do we know that the botnet was the result of remote exploits and not the result of users explicitly downloading software that happened to be Trojanized? We can blame Microsoft for opening ports without need, having insecure software listening to those ports, and for making drive-by downloads possible. But if someone just insists on installing dancing cursors or weather forecasts, that's not Microsoft's fault.

    10. Re:Botnet? Cal it what it is! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > And you weer able to fix it. Try fixing a zombiefied Windows machine, short of pulling the infected drive and replacing it with a fresh, virgin drive.

      Let's not forget where the term "rootkit" comes from. Any compromised machine has to be scraped, period.

    11. Re:Botnet? Cal it what it is! by Shados · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, considering that #1 if Linux had the market share Windows has, it would be a bigger chunk, the fact is most Windows viruses are probably caught by users -willingly- installing crap on their computers. If you're a retarded user, and you see a "L33t KDE icon package!" and follow instructions that tell you to login as root and run an executable, your box will get owned either way. Sure, Linux takes more steps to prevent this, but still.

    12. Re:Botnet? Cal it what it is! by Phroggy · · Score: 1

      And you weer able to fix it. Try fixing a zombiefied Windows machine, short of pulling the infected drive and replacing it with a fresh, virgin drive.

      What do you think antivirus and antispyware apps do? On Linux I had to track it down by hand.

      Which will be 0wned after 30 minutes connected to the Net, due to the POS that is Windows, coupled with the ignorance of the bog-standard Windows luser.

      Windows XP Service Pack 2 won't be 0wned just by connecting it. And if you're gonna throw user ignorance into the mix... Try creating an account with a username like "temp" and a simple password like "temp123" on an average run-of-the-mill non-firewalled Linux box, and see how long it takes.

      --
      $x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
      $x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
    13. Re:Botnet? Cal it what it is! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      was this, "the preview button", you speak of broken when you published your website? DOWN WITH BUSH HURRR.

    14. Re:Botnet? Cal it what it is! by walt-sjc · · Score: 1

      There are many, many tools for automatically scanning Unix based hosts for malware of various types... tripwire, rkhunter and clamav to name a few. There is no need to do anything manually. Running Snort on your network would have also found your issue well before your ISP found it.

    15. Re:Botnet? Cal it what it is! by tomstdenis · · Score: 1

      No, my point is Microsoft [and the ilk] make it too easy to get people in trouble.

      What's that? FreePartyPoker.net? All I have to do is download some random .exe from a server I've never seen before and run it as my DEFAULT ROOT USER? Awesome! [hint: most free poker games are spyware ridden ... and why aren't they just Java applications anyways?]

      So MSFT obliges them, running as root to avoid those pesky "user privilege escalation" prompts, ActiveX scripts and downloads (which the stupid users with no training automatically install "to enhance their experience"), HTML and attachments in email (hint: email should be limited to text imho), etc, etc.

      It's like lacing your candy with crack because people want to be high. Well that's great and all, except that crack has negative and long lasting impacts, other than destroying your health, it's also addictive. Similarly, people are insecure with their Windows PC but they're addicted to the "modern age" of computing.

      The difference in the OSS world is most projects don't cow-tow to the whims of every random user, because, well frankly, most random users don't know shit about computing and couldn't tell a secure idea from an insecure one.

      Tom

      --
      Someday, I'll have a real sig.
    16. Re:Botnet? Cal it what it is! by RAMMS+EIN · · Score: 1

      ``Where are the class action suits against Microsoft for continually producing such flawed software that makes it easy to 0wn a box?''

      Can you say with certainty that whatever OS people would be using instead of Microsoft would have prevented this?

      --
      Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
    17. Re:Botnet? Cal it what it is! by Raenex · · Score: 1
      Sure, Linux takes more steps to prevent this, but still.

      No, it doesn't. Nothing in Linux prevents you from downloading a random binary and running it. The fact that it won't take over as root is meaningless, since all the privileges need for a botnet (or to steal your bank password) are already available as a normal user.

      Your main point is right on. Linux is only more secure because it is more obscure. I would hope, though, that if Linux did become as popular as Windows that the community would have come up with better solutions by now.

    18. Re:Botnet? Cal it what it is! by Shados · · Score: 1

      Good point. I was only thinking about the whole "users are not encouraged to run as root in Linux" deal, but yeah, normal users have all they need, so I guess it only stops the more complicated malware.

      thanks for the correction.

    19. Re:Botnet? Cal it what it is! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I understand, and somewhat agree. However, this type of sentiment is the reason Microsoft has a monopoly. People can say whatever they want about anti-competitive business tactics and everything else, but until there's a better option for most people, Microsoft will stay where it is. Most people want easy to use computers for little money. Easy to use breaks Linux, little money broke Apple once upon a time. These people are willing to put up with the problems because it gets the job done. When the problems get to be too much, they call people like me to come fix it. If the OSS community wants to break the Microsoft monopoly, they need to concentrate on ease of use first.

    20. Re:Botnet? Cal it what it is! by tomstdenis · · Score: 1

      That's the myth though. Linux isn't hard to use with a modicum of training. Remember that back in the day kids were learning how to use MS-DOS, cd? dir? move? del? wtf no gui?

      Society has somehow forgotten that people were using computers just fine 25 years ago without the need for shiny GUI running as root.

      At least in Apples respect they have merged their nice GUI and applications with a well tuned Kernel and userland. My only gripe (other than the cost) is the crappy 4.0.1 GCC that comes standard with OSX.

      Microsoft feeds on perpetuating the myth that everyone is stupid and can't figure these "computer thingies out." And that they need Vista to solve all their problems, like how to move files from one directory to another, or download pictures off a USB camera...

      Tom

      --
      Someday, I'll have a real sig.
    21. Re:Botnet? Cal it what it is! by Chris+Tucker · · Score: 1

      I can say for certainty that MS has, for decades, shipped an OS that was wide open to being easily exploited, via OS holes and two applications that begged to be used as vectors for virii, worms and trojans.

      --
      Guaranteed! This comment 100% Anthrax free!
    22. Re:Botnet? Cal it what it is! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You forgot the most important command "del *.*". (Used in C:\ when trying to delete a game "OOOPs:( )

    23. Re:Botnet? Cal it what it is! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's true. Of course, that's what the kids (myself included) were growing up with. There's much to be said for the formative years. At this point, I'd probably have more difficulty learning Linux than I did learning DOS back in the day. As people learn the new ways of doing things, the old ways die.

      Find a kid under the age of twenty who knows how to overclock a computer by replacing the quartz crystal. You don't need to do that anymore, so they don't know how. I know people who've been using their computers for years without dropping to the command line.

      Here's another one. Spelling and grammar ability graphed against age. I seem to be one of the lucky ones in my age group. I got into the correct way of doing things before the IM way of doing things.

      I took several classes of Spanish in high school. I can still kinda read it, but I'm slow, and I fail to understand many of the words. My cousins grew up in a bilingual family in a country where English is a common second language. My English is better than theirs, but not by the margin that their Bengali beats my Spanish.

      Adam

    24. Re:Botnet? Cal it what it is! by tomstdenis · · Score: 1

      Not in a problem in a real OS. My default user doesn't have permission to remove directories from /

      Tom

      --
      Someday, I'll have a real sig.
    25. Re:Botnet? Cal it what it is! by tomstdenis · · Score: 1

      I still think that the MSFT sort are pushing it too far.

      Sure, I wouldn't expect all computer users to be C experts, but they should understand the basics of a file system (e,g. files, permissions, directories, symlinks, etc) so they can properly interpret what they are looking at and doing. Not running as root is another good start, KNOWING WHY you shouldn't is better :-)

      Once you beat the "oh I can't learn this" stubborness from most people you'll find that they can be taught the basics fairly easily. It's getting over the initial "I'm a tard, or I think I am, obviously I need MSFT, so don't try to teach me these "directories" cuz it's hard."

      Of course, I'd settle for people learning to interpret NNTP headers, that way at least when my pet-troll from sci.crypt joe-job's me I don't get calls from random people at 11pm at night about some kiddie porn "that I posted" to usenet....

      arrg..

      Tom

      --
      Someday, I'll have a real sig.
    26. Re:Botnet? Cal it what it is! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree.

      Adam

  17. Open Letter to all Trolls by tomstdenis · · Score: 4, Interesting

    You're pricks.

    Nothing positive or lasting will come out of trolling (and yes: this means you anonymous asshats on /. and in usenet).

    So why not be part of a winning team and stop script kiddie'ing around from your parents basement.

    Sincerely,
    The Rest of the Human Race.

    --
    Someday, I'll have a real sig.
    1. Re:Open Letter to all Trolls by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I find two things funny about the parent post. First it's modded troll. Second the guy with the mod points was apparently a troll that responded negatively to the anti-troll sentiment.
      Hilarity ensues. :-P

    2. Re:Open Letter to all Trolls by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you are the person who I think you are, then your leetter really ridiculous. "Tom St Denis" was the biggest troll on the sci.crypt usenet group (before I stopped reading it, as it's just full of crypto wannabies and there's no point in reading it anymore). Hopefully, he wrote the letter to himself too.

    3. Re:Open Letter to all Trolls by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This horse molester also trolls on Freenet and I2P. Hypocrisy indeed.

    4. Re:Open Letter to all Trolls by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, this would be the very same asshat. Be sure to tag him as a foe and -6 all foe comments.
      It took three of his comments at most in sci.crypt before he hit the killfile. It was a new record at the time.

    5. Re:Open Letter to all Trolls by Raenex · · Score: 1

      Botnet operators aren't trolls. And your admonishments don't matter to either.

  18. Re:Real ripple effects, even from this small event by ScentCone · · Score: 1

    Shoud those acts be illegal because of a butterfly effect caused by bad programming? Get real, please.

    If by "bad programming" you mean: the DDoS attack on the name servers was working, and thus a receiving mail server couldn't decide whether to trust another party's sent message... then, sure. Except that's not bad programming "on the site" (as you put it), is it? No. It's a vulnerability in using DNS in the first place. The only thing that would have prevented that would have been sticking with good old IP addresses for everything. But then, what stops a massive bot-net army from launching a DDoS attack against an IP address? Prosecution against the people who do it is at least somewhat helpful.

    --
    Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
  19. Stupid Me... by ewl1217 · · Score: 2

    Did anybody else read this as "Every DNS Under Botnet DDoS Attack"?

    1. Re:Stupid Me... by EricJ2190 · · Score: 1

      That would have to be one massive attack!

    2. Re:Stupid Me... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, it's not your fault though, my mind put a space there simply because I'm so used to correcting spelling/punctuation on slashdot that I don't even think about it.

  20. Re:They never anticipated Windows. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I'm no MS fan, but it is worth noting that most of the OS's you mention were even less secure than Windows at the time the internet was being developed.

    The difference is that very few people knew the exploits and fewer still were in a position to actually use them.

  21. incompetence effects, not ripple effects by SuperBanana · · Score: 3, Insightful

    In once case, a vital piece of mail sent to a state taxing authority couldn't get through on a month-end calendar deadline, causing much grief.

    Maybe a)it shouldn't be left until the deadline and b)sent via email, if it's so damn important.

    And maybe you not tell clients to use a free DNS hosting service as their sole DNS provider...

    1. Re:incompetence effects, not ripple effects by ScentCone · · Score: 1

      Maybe a)it shouldn't be left until the deadline and b)sent via email, if it's so damn important.

      Hey! I don't do management consulting for their accounting people. But sometimes this sort of thing tends to have that effect, once the dust settles.

      And maybe you not tell clients to use a free DNS hosting service as their sole DNS provider...

      Not my call on this one either. Our team is involved on a peripheral project, and this part of their infrastructure was in place long before we got on board. We've already updated their domain records to name additional name servers on other networks, which spreads the pain. They're learning.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    2. Re:incompetence effects, not ripple effects by Forbman · · Score: 1

      you do not understand month-end processes, do you?

      In most/all companies, month-end and year-end are major periods of effort for accounting to close the books. Some of that includes communicating information with third-parties...

  22. solution to DDOS attack by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    1. Turn off the router
    2. Turn on the TV and watch Oprah.
    3. Turn the router back on before going home
    4. Laugh all the way to the bank

    1. Re:solution to DDOS attack by sirket · · Score: 5, Informative

      Not quite- It generally works like this:

      First off- be prepared for a damned attack and don't wait til it happens. When an attack does come:

      1- Identify the target IP address
      2- Immediately null-route traffic for that address (preferably using BGP community based null-routing)
      This gets the rest of your systems back up and gives you time to work on the problem.
      3- Try to identify a pattern in the attacking traffic- use a product from a company like Mazu- or just tcpdump if you're good with sed and awk.
      4- If there is a pattern ask the upstream ISP to block based on that pattern (same source port, same source IP, same TTL, whatever). Or block it yourself if you have the router and bandwidth capacity to deal with the attack yourself- though that's generally a waste of your resources.
      5- If there is no pattern but the traffic is malformed then enabled a Cisco Riverguard or similar protection device that can filter out malformed traffic at the higher protocol layers. As an alternative, sign up for such a service form a company like Prolexic.
      6- Remove your null route and see how you did.
      7- If you can't afford a protection service, you can try moving the host/dns records to new IP's. Sometimes the attacks don't follow- sometimes they do. It's often worth a try as it can be done faster than enabling protection services in many cases. In this case leave the old null route in place until the attack stops. Be prepared for the attack to return at any time once they realize what's happened.

      Make sure to keep traffic logs for law-enforcement and to share with other ISP's so that they can track down the offending bots.

      In the future try to keep your traffic as segregated as possible such that an attack on a single host will not take down too many other services should you need to null-route that address for an extended period of time.

      The easiest solution- block all IP addresses assigned to the APNIC region and watch as your site immediately returns to normal. Sadly most of the DDoS's I've seen recently had the majority of their traffic sourced from APNIC addresses.

      -sirket

    2. Re:solution to DDOS attack by sholdowa · · Score: 2, Informative

      '1. Identify the target IP address'
      It's a *distributed* attack. That means more than one address. A lot more.

      'or just tcpdump if you're good with sed and awk.'
      You're going to be able to do this on 1.6Gbit of traffic in realtime? That's good typing.

      'The easiest solution- block all IP addresses assigned to the APNIC region and watch as your site immediately returns to normal.'
      FUD. This is a botnet attack. Most owned PC's live in the US. It's this kind of thinking that has forced us to run our servers in the US, because as everyone knows, New Zealand is in Asia.

      I'm glad you're not supporting our networks (:

    3. Re:solution to DDOS attack by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > 1. Identify the target IP address'
      > It's a *distributed* attack. That means more than one address. A lot more.

      he talked about target not source ips. your own servers are the target...

      > 'or just tcpdump if you're good with sed and awk.'
      > You're going to be able to do this on 1.6Gbit of traffic in realtime? That's good typing.

      ever heard about scripting?

      > 'The easiest solution- block all IP addresses assigned to the APNIC region and watch as your site immediately returns to normal.'
      > FUD. This is a botnet attack. Most owned PC's live in the US. It's this kind of thinking that has forced us to run our servers in the US, because as everyone knows, New Zealand is in Asia.

      Blocking whole countrys isn't good pratice. This isn't good advice.
      But it works for some. Same as blocking all emails from china. It's an ethical and primary buisness decision.

      > I'm glad you're not supporting our networks (:

      I'm glad everybody can learn.

  23. Re:Real ripple effects, even from this small event by silas_moeckel · · Score: 1

    Who is the bright boy that put a spam filter on a a drop box for important tax info. This is the digital equivalent of the government refusing to accept mail and claiming you missed the deadline.

    --
    No sir I dont like it.
  24. Possible Target? by Black-Six · · Score: 1

    After reading the updated article at Security Watch (http://securitywatch.eweek.com/exploits_and_attac ks/everydns_opendns_under_botnet_ddos_attack.html) , I'm begining to think that the target of the attack was Phish Tank itself. Why else would a hacker or hackers launch such a large scale assault on one the worlds largest free DNS providing groups if only to knock them offline for only a few hours? I think that the domains in question are just cover for the attackers attempt at taking Phish Tank offline, i.e. divert System Admins attention and resources, backdoor you way into the Phish tank server, upload botnets and virus, then push your little red button and watch years worth of work in the security field go down in a flaming death-throe. This, IMVO, to me, seems the more likely reason other than just a few kids jacking around. Why else would such a high profile target be selected by the everyday hacker if he knew the full brunt of the FBI was going to come down on him? These people that launched this assault seem to know what they wanted and went about it knowing full well what they were getting into. Also they attacked the entire DNS groups world wide system. These things seem to indicate to me that they wanted Phish Tank to go offline but just weren't able to pull it off.

    1. Re:Possible Target? by budgenator · · Score: 1

      Yeah I was thinking the same thing, after looking at phish tank it occurred to me that it's a list of phishing sites; I've written a little script called chimmer and chummer weighs in at about 120 lines of perl, that send phishers a lot of bad data to obfuscate the good data. The tools to make life miserable for phishers are really pretty simple and could easily provoke such a response; there is nothing really difficult or unique about chummer, so there have to be a lot of work-alike scripts out there in the wild.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
  25. They deserve the grief by Pig+Hogger · · Score: 3, Insightful
    In once case, a vital piece of mail sent to a state taxing authority couldn't get through on a month-end calendar deadline, causing much grief.
    That grief is well deserved. E-mail is **NOT** reliable, and delivery is **NOT**, **CAN NOT** and **WILL NOT** be guaranteed. So anyone stupid enough to entrust "vital" communication to e-mail rightly deserves to have his arse whipped real good.

    Myself, a month ago I missed an opportunity to collaborate on a TV miniseries. Why? Because the moron who asked me for my collaboration absolutely trusted e-mail, and it was **THE** message that bounced thanks to a network glitch, and that moron didn't think of calling me on the **PHONE**. Well, if they were stupid enough to trust e-mail like that, they probably would have made a crappy miniseries anyways.

    For casual communications, there is e-mail.

    For vital ones, there is registered mail, fax or phone.

    1. Re:They deserve the grief by ScentCone · · Score: 1

      For casual communications, there is e-mail.

      Yup. But when (in the case I'm citing) an accounting type and a person at a tax office have been happily swapping mail for many months, with little or no lag, they tend to get lulled into a sense of false reliability. And that's what happens.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    2. Re:They deserve the grief by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Your example just goes to show that normal people do see email as reliable enough for important missives. And they are right; it gets to where it should be most of the time. Just like regular mail, by the way. They normally are both good enough for all but the most important messages.

      A lot of mail is misdelivered or just lost. Yet the tax people do not demand that we send in our tax returns by registered mail. And would you be as pissed at the miniseries people if they'd sent you a letter by regular mail and the letter subsequently got lost?

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    3. Re:They deserve the grief by ScentCone · · Score: 1

      A lot of mail is misdelivered or just lost. Yet the tax people do not demand that we send in our tax returns by registered mail. And would you be as pissed at the miniseries people if they'd sent you a letter by regular mail and the letter subsequently got lost?

      I'm sorry, this is slashdot. You are not allowed to use reasonable, constructive analogies to make a point. Also, you should sound just a little more hysterical, and be sure to somehow blame Steve Balmer if at all possible.

      Thanks, though! I should have used that analogy from the beginning. It's a perfect one.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    4. Re:They deserve the grief by Peter+Cooper · · Score: 1

      I totally agree, but isn't the state of affairs with e-mail really totally sad? I mean.. it's a digital form of communications that, by all rights, should be secure, guaranteed, and so forth. Instead, we have to use analog communications with either postal guarantees or real-time confirmation.

      Are there any e-mail style systems that do claim to be 100% fail-proof?

  26. Every DNS, not EasyDNS. by Simon+Carr · · Score: 1
    Hey all,

      I have to stress that it is EveryDNS that is under attack, and not EasyDNS.com.

    That being said this is not an uncommon issue these days at DNS providers across the 'net. Before anyone starts to kick and scream about how EveryDNS is handling things, remember that these attacks can get astoundingly vicious.

    No amount of "clue" or mitigation or whatnot will help when the upstream service providers themselves are having trouble with the traffic load from a large-scale botnet attack.

    --
    -- The unsig...
    1. Re:Every DNS, not EasyDNS. by sirket · · Score: 3, Informative

      If your upstream provider can't handle 400Mbps of traffic then you're being hosted by a pretty shitty ISP/data-center. It's not like gig uplinks are expensive (even if you only commit to a tiny rate you can generally get gig uplinks). Spread this across 4 or more datacenters and you've got a lot of bandwidth.

      Not to mention that networking people generally don't give a shit about bandwidth- it's packets per second that kill routers, not bandwidth. Assuming 100 byte packets that's about 4Mpps- Even a basic 7600 can handle this kind of traffic. Assuming 30 byte packets (can't be smaller than that) you're talking about 15Mpps. Again Even a basic 7600 should be able to handle that- not to mention a Juniper M7i or similar. Most Foundry equipment would laugh at that rate. All of these routers can do ACL's at full packet rates.

      That said- other recent DNS attacks exceeded 1.5 Gigabits per second of traffic and were a lot more vicious than the attack being described here.

      I'm not knocking EveryDNS- I know what a bitch dealing with a DDoS can be- the problem tends to be that most people aren't ready to deal with it. Using BGP community based nullrouting most service can be restored within seconds of the target IP(s) being identified. That allows admins to keep untargeted systems and services up while the attacked systems are dealt with. The admins can then use the time to locate some/any pattern in the attack or enable the appropriate filtering such as a Cisco Riverguard or similar.

      -sirket

    2. Re:Every DNS, not EasyDNS. by Simon+Carr · · Score: 1

      Oh believe me, I know how big these attacks can get ;) My thought on this is that considering some of the attacks we've seen recently I don't know if getting a 1Gbps pipe would have helped Every DNS, as the attacker probably would have just saturated that link as well. (especially if it's the same collection of botnets that attacked other providers).

      Attacks like this seem not to be targeted at taking the provider down forever technically, but making it so expensive for the provider to continue to operate that they have to shut down from an administrative standpoint.

      Even after a properly mitigated attack is over, there are still often very very large bills to pay.

      --
      -- The unsig...
  27. sue by Lehk228 · · Score: 1

    sue each participating machine owner for neglegence

    if you have a dog and it bites someone or damages someone's property you are liable, so why not computers?

    --
    Snowden and Manning are heroes.
    1. Re:sue by The+Mysterious+X · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Because nobody has broken into the dog and forced it to bite somebody.

    2. Re:sue by antispam_ben · · Score: 1

      Because nobody has broken into the dog and forced it to bite somebody.

      The owner could be sued even if the dog has rabies.

      --
      Tag lost or not installed.
    3. Re:sue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If I kidnapped you with the purpose of torturing you, and gave you the option of being tossed in a room with a starving german shepherd or witnessing a brutal ddos attack on your computer for a day. Which would you choose? I think anyone with a brain would agree that being attacked by a dog is far more injurious than the inconvience of having your computers not working at peak efficiency for a day or two. Come on

    4. Re:sue by Vegeta99 · · Score: 1

      Ok, so what?

      A. You allowed your dog to be in the open enough for someone to infect it.

      B. You refused to notice different behavior patterns in your dog (ie, he was slow to respond, seemed to be preoccupied every time you called him).

      C. You refused to take your dog to the vet often enough to notice this distemper, and he bit someone.

      You are liable. Replace dog with PC, and vet with "antivirus" and we're all good.

  28. You must be new here by TubeSteak · · Score: 1
    Nothing is ever righteous when it comes to DDoS.
    I feel compelled to come to /.'s defense:
    A Slashdotting is always Righteous :op


    /Don't hate me because my UID is prime

    --
    [Fuck Beta]
    o0t!
    1. Re:You must be new here by SaDan · · Score: 2, Funny

      Don't hate the guy you replied to because his UID is freakin' 18!!! :^)

    2. Re:You must be new here by daverabbitz · · Score: 1

      But 18 isn't prime?

      --
      What could be better than a jet powered motorcycle? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8l6GTHLSWE
    3. Re:You must be new here by funfail · · Score: 1

      No, but its prime factors consist of only 2's and 3's.

      Mine is 2 * 2 * 2 * 2 * 11 * 37 * 149. Not elegant at all (apart from being divisible by 2^4)

  29. Re:Real ripple effects, even from this small event by ScentCone · · Score: 1

    Who is the bright boy that put a spam filter on a a drop box for important tax info. This is the digital equivalent of the government refusing to accept mail and claiming you missed the deadline.

    I believe the official policy is that things are supposed to take place by postal mail, and FAX by fallback. But folks at both ends had been swapping mail for months with no problem (and more reliably AFTER the spam filtering went in), and got seduced into assuming it would always work. That's what happens, I see it all the time.

    --
    Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
  30. DNSPark, too by mrmagos · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I use DNSPark, and they were subject to a DDOS attack earlier this week, too. Are they affiliated with EveryDNS too, or is it coincidence, since they are another cheap/free DNS host?

    --
    Never start vast projects with half-vast ideas.
  31. What in the fuck are you talking about, son? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    By the late 1970s and early 1980s, VMS was already being used in a great number of locations. Its security was tested daily, and it proved to be rock-solid. That's why many companies still use it even today for their most essential data processing tasks.

    I'd hardly suggest that the TCP/IP implementation of BSD was "insecure", even during its earlier releases. It was incorporated into so many other products, including SVR4 and Windows, mostly due to its extremely high quality. BSD itself was one of the most secure systems ever implemented. If it weren't for the excellent quality of the BSD codebase, we likely would never have seen a system as completely, and almost obscenely, secure as OpenBSD. Were it not for the tremendous earlier work at Berkeley, Theo et al. would have had little to build on.

    There's no reason why Microsoft could not have built upon the knowledge and experience gained while developing truly secure systems like VMS and BSD UNIX. Hell, they had the main developer of VMS working for them, and they borrowed significant BSD-derived code. Then again, only Microsoft can take truly excellent software and experience, and pervert it into a horribly insecure product.

    1. Re:What in the fuck are you talking about, son? by sirket · · Score: 1

      First off- by all accounts Windows NT borrowed heavily from VMS.

      Secondly, the Morris worm compromised _Unix_ systems- not windows boxes. I loathe Windows but please don't pretend Unix doesn't have it's own sins. The difference is the Unix folks tend to learn from their mistakes and the Windows folks don't.

      -sirket

    2. Re:What in the fuck are you talking about, son? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      First off- by all accounts Windows NT borrowed heavily from VMS.

      As a VMS and OpenVMS administrator for 9 years, and then a Windows NT 3.5, 3.51 and 4.0 admin for 7 years after that, I can tell you that the similarities are superficial. It would seem that Cutler tried to work in ideas from VMS, but it's incorrect to say that "Windows NT borrowed heavily from VMS." While VMS uses a monolithic kernel, Windows NT tried to go with a more microkernel-like approach. They also had other constraints that VMS did not really have, including the need for a very fast GUI subsystem, which radically altered the design of the system away from what VMS did. Windows NT also had to offer backwards compatibility with existing Win32 applications, in addition to offering the Win16 and Win32 APIs. It offers FAT filesystems support. NTFS pales in comparison to ODS2.

      Only a fucking fool who has used neither VMS nor Windows NT would suggest that "Windows NT borrowed heavily from VMS." Those of us who have extensively used both systems see the vast differences, and we know very well how inferior Windows NT is to VMS, in virtually every way. The grandparent is correct to point out that Microsoft fucked it big time when it came to NT. They had the people and resources to pull off another system the quality of VMS, but failed to actually do so.

    3. Re:What in the fuck are you talking about, son? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not going to start the whole "my OS is more secure than yours arguement" because all OS's have holes. But lets be a little more honest with your statement. The Morris worm was unleashed in 1988! I'm not going to bother to look up if Windows 1.0 was even around then but surely it didn't have an IP stack (I think that came with WFW 3.11). At that time also, the "Internet" was really more the ARPANet and the systems at the time were more insecure mainly relegated to major universities, research institutes, govt agencies and the such. It was all about sharing and Joe Six-pack wasn't there. Blah.. the good old days

  32. Re:"nefarious domain" is a loaded and subjective t by Hellasboy · · Score: 0

    dictionary.com defines nefarious as: "Infamous by way of being extremely wicked."

    What exactly being wicked would depend on the situation (as that's a subjective term) and considering that they are trying to take down websites via DDOS attacks, I'd call that wicked.

    Although, I don't understand your last statement. Is it wrong to call them nefarious after the fact? Wouldn't you call a person a murderer after they murder someone?

    --

    "Tread softly because you tread on my dreams"
  33. Re:"nefarious domain" is a loaded and subjective t by plasmacutter · · Score: 1

    I think you read that summary wrong..

    the DDOS attacks were supposedly against "nefarious domains" which this DNS service then took down, bowing to these cyberterrorist actions.. and after taking them down responded to questions by saying their attackers were actually attacking "nefarious" websites.

    --
    VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
  34. Bah My sites got hit by future+assassin · · Score: 1

    Had to take my home server off line as three of my sites all had time out from too many mysql connections. Notices my home cable connection was slow as hell.

    --
    by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
  35. Re:Real ripple effects, even from this small event by bky1701 · · Score: 1

    DOS attacks are easy to pervent. And in this case, at least with your example, it could have been handled on the DNS's side server easy, had they known what they were doing. Stop hiding behind law to justify technical failures, the internet is survival of the fittist and that's just the way it belongs. (And lets not try to discuss how, if they can carry this out, you are going to catch them. It's pointless.)

  36. At least...! by merc · · Score: 1

    there wasn't a link to EveryDNS in the article.

    --
    It's true no man is an island, but if you take a bunch of dead guys and tie 'em together, they make a good raft.
  37. The DDoS Flu Is Going Around by WrongSizeGlass · · Score: 1

    Two of my clients were affected by separate DDoS attacks against their hosting companies this week, and another was affected by this one. It must be contagious ... either that or I'm cursed.

  38. Oh noes by Dersaidin · · Score: 1

    INTERNET TERRORISM.

  39. Re:lkjljk by WrongSizeGlass · · Score: 1

    Pestiferous you say? I say gratuitous.

  40. Re:Real ripple effects, even from this small event by ScentCone · · Score: 1

    Stop hiding behind law to justify technical failures

    I'm a little mystified at how you come up with this, but just to be clear: all I'm pointing out is that, as we sit, the proverbial "cyber attack" CAN indeed cause considerable economic disruption. I'm not sure what you think I'm hiding behind when I say that. It's just a statement of fact, and this one little event shows how disruptive it could be. I've made no particular call to action, but I certainly wouldn't mind if people who use bot-nets to cause business damage through extortion are prosecuted, just like people who threaten to burn down office buildings should be prosecuted.

    --
    Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
  41. Re:Real ripple effects, even from this small event by Mixel · · Score: 3, Insightful
    DOS attacks are easy to pervent

    Learn to spell, get a clue.

    There is nothing you can practically do to prevent someone on the internet from sending a packet addressed to you, nor two packets, nor 1000000. There is nothing you can practically do to prevent the source address on each of those packets to be different. If a DOSer has much bigger pipes than you, you are sunk, unless you can do something very smart. For a start, getting remote access to your server during a DOS attack is tricky unless you have redundancy. Then you need to profile the traffic, find patterns which you can filter.

    The non-triviality of a (D)DOS is the reason why everyone is interested to learn how to defend against such attacks. This is why we want to hear how EveryDNS handled the problem so well. A second-rate admin would not be able to. While I appreciate your sentiment regarding "survival of the fittest". I feel it can be better expressed as "survival of the fittest admin for the job".

    And lets not try to discuss how, if they can carry this out, you are going to catch them
    As there are lots of admins on /., it is only natural that they want to get fitter through learning how to deal with such attacks. Therefore the how is very important and very much worth discussing. Problems don't magically resolve themselves, though it may seem like that because professional and dedicated people spend much of their time figuring out how to deal with them effectively.
  42. Re:"nefarious domain" is a loaded and subjective t by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Both the Oxford American and Oxford English dictionaries elaborate "nefarious" as "typically of an action or activity" - it does not state or mean that it has to be in the general opinion bad, rebellious, wicked etc., but could just as well imply any entity with a noted agenda, be it "good" or "bad".

  43. Re:Real ripple effects, even from this small event by Qzukk · · Score: 1

    DOS attacks are easy to pervent.

    Prevent? How? "Don't hang out on IRC from your server's IP?" "When you get an email demanding $50000, pay up?" "Reach through the intertubes and strangle the guy that's about to send the packets to you?"

    They might be "easy to deal with": call your upstream provider and hope that they'll shut it off (or call their upstream provider) rather than go "kaching!" and let your bandwidth bill rack up.

    --
    If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
  44. Thank you David! by capedgirardeau · · Score: 1

    I just want to say thank you publicly, you run a service that has helped out many folks, myself included.
    And a reminder, EveryDNS.net runs on donations.
    EveryDNS Donations

    Thank you again.

    ps: Wow, slashdot uid 18.

    --
    Wax on, wax off baby!
  45. Re:Real ripple effects, even from this small event by pushf+popf · · Score: 1

    There is nothing you can practically do to prevent someone on the internet from sending a packet addressed to you, nor two packets, nor 1000000. There is nothing you can practically do to prevent the source address on each of those packets to be different. If a DOSer has much bigger pipes than you, you are sunk, unless you can do something very smart. For a start, getting remote access to your server during a DOS attack is tricky unless you have redundancy. Then you need to profile the traffic, find patterns which you can filter. The defense against this sort of attack is to using a hosting provider with huge pipes.

    Real sites that must be up us providers with huge, redundant tier 1 internet connections to multiple networks.

    Then a DOS attack becomes something interesting to watch on a router traffic graph instead of a problem.

    I worked for one of those providers, and it was always fun watching a DOS attack because it was like a fart in a hurricaine. If you have big enough pipes and great network guys, nothing else matters.

  46. Don't sue. Notify by ukemike · · Score: 1

    I expect that 99% of computer owners that have compromised windoze machines do not know that their machines have been compromised. Each person who owns a PC that is involved should be notified.

    "Your computer has been compromised and is being used for criminal activities. Now that you have been notified, you will be held responsible for future criminal activity involving your computer. Here are instructions for regaining control of your computer..."

    --
    -- QED
  47. Re:Real ripple effects, even from this small event by NeutronCowboy · · Score: 1

    And you still don't have a clue. I worked for a company that was hit by a DDOS attack. Their Tier I network provider was so swamped that they switched off all traffic to the company (and this was a company whose entire business relied on its website being up). No matter how many redundant pipes you buy, there is always the possibility of being hit with more traffic. Unless you buy 50% of the worldwide bandwidth. I'd like to see you try that.

    And at that point, it becomes a question of how you deal with a DDOS attack. Are you prepared? Can you work with your provider? Can you filter properly? Identify legitimate and illegitimate traffic? All important stuff that's vital for surviving these things.

    --
    Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
  48. Re:Real ripple effects, even from this small event by pushf+popf · · Score: 1

    And you still don't have a clue. I worked for a company that was hit by a DDOS attack. Their Tier I network provider was so swamped that they switched off all traffic to the company (and this was a company whose entire business relied on its website being up). No matter how many redundant pipes you buy, there is always the possibility of being hit with more traffic. Unless you buy 50% of the worldwide bandwidth. I'd like to see you try that.

    All that means is that your contract with the hosting provider let them weasel out of their responsibilities, and that they didn't have big enough pipes to enough networks and that they didn't have big enough balls.

    With huge pipes, great network guys and globally distributed servers, a DOS attack becomes something interesting to wtch while having some coffee.

    It's not necessary to own 1/2 the bandwidth in the world, only more than the botnet, which although way too much for a single server on a 10 Mb ethernet connection, doesn't mean squat to hundreds of servers doing IP Anycast scattered around the world.

    A lot of companies don't want to be down, but in reality, if they go down for a while, they won't go out of business and nobody will die. When a site absolutely can't be down (human life or huge fianancial losses are at stake), they simply make sure they can handle whatever happens.

  49. I wish everydns had SPF support by Mustang+Matt · · Score: 1

    Then it would be perfect.

    --
    The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
  50. for a site thats being DoS'd and /.'ed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    it loaded pretty damn quick for me, (less than a second) unless i missed something..

  51. Re:Real ripple effects, even from this small event by eraser.cpp · · Score: 1

    Denial of service attacks are very difficult to defend against.

  52. Re:Real ripple effects, even from this small event by Mixel · · Score: 1
    Still clueless! I'd suggest reading Sun Tzu's the Art of War. Generals who can lose minimally while outnumbered are worth a hundred of those, that can win while outnumbering. Those who can only win while outnumbering are better used as infantry.

    With huge pipes, great network guys and globally distributed servers, a DOS attack becomes something interesting to wtch while having some coffee.
    Right. And with GOD on your side, armageddon becomes something interesting to watch while having some coffee.

    Pop quiz, hotshot. You are the only network guy on station, your distributed servers are all getting pounded equally hard, everyone on the network is losing money and the traffic doesn't stop. What do you do? What do you do?

    Rarely does anyone care what you can do without resource limitations. This is because there are always resource limitations. Network guys cost, bandwidth costs, smart Cisco boxes costs. Wires cost money. Electricity costs, rackspace costs. Will you minimize the cost of a DOS attack (including the cost of network equipment you paid before the attack started), or are you going to watch it continue over some coffee?

    only more than the botnet, which although way too much for a single server on a 10 Mb ethernet connection, doesn't mean squat to hundreds of servers doing IP Anycast scattered around the world
    Let me update you on the figures: 70,000 botnet computers, 1Mbit each, equal 70Gbit of traffic. At least one such network has been recently reported.
  53. Re:Real ripple effects, even from this small event by pushf+popf · · Score: 1

    Pop quiz, hotshot. You are the only network guy on station, your distributed servers are all getting pounded equally hard, everyone on the network is losing money and the traffic doesn't stop. What do you do? What do you do?

    If you're the only guy on call for a global network, I'd find another job.

    Rarely does anyone care what you can do without resource limitations. This is because there are always resource limitations. Network guys cost, bandwidth costs, smart Cisco boxes costs. Wires cost money. Electricity costs, rackspace costs. Will you minimize the cost of a DOS attack (including the cost of network equipment you paid before the attack started), or are you going to watch it continue over some coffee? All those costs are irrelevant. If you have something that can't go down, you do whatever is necessary to achieve that.

    If you can't afford to do that (hardware, netowrk or staff), then obviously your service isn't as valuable to society as you think it is. Or it's being managed by morons.

    Either way, it's nothing for you to have a stroke over. One of the most valuable things you'll eventually learn is that technology is mostly mental masturbation for humans. If 90% of the internet went down, people might be a little more bored than usual, but they wouldn't stop breathing. It just isn't that important.

    There's a whole world out there, and mostly it really doesn't matter if you can pay your bills online or gamble or find porn or music or video or get live radar maps of the weather in your area or pretty much anything else that takes up almost all the bandwidth.

    If you want to see where the rubber meets the road, sit in on meeting with a big customer and watch what happens when they say "I don't want my site to ever be down" and the sales rep tells them what that would cost. Then you'll see them say either "I don't care. It can never go down", or "OK, what would it cost for it to almost never goe down?"

  54. Re:Real ripple effects, even from this small event by Mixel · · Score: 1
    Never going down is infinitely expensive.
    Always being offline costs nothing (unless one is stupid enough to pay for it).

    Those two cases are easy, boring and unrealistic. The interesting stuff is in-between.

    If you want to see where the rubber meets the road, sit in on meeting with a big customer and watch what happens when they say "I don't want my site to ever be down" and the sales rep tells them what that would cost. Then you'll see them say either "I don't care. It can never go down", or "OK, what would it cost for it to almost never goe down?
    You have again missed my point. At the end of the day, those people that make cost estimate have already through about how to deal with DOS and have already asked their engineers/admins to minimise the cost for a given range of operation. The technical how is of interest to us, because cost minimization is entirely dependant on that how.

    I think you are arguing that investment in resources is more important than technicality (i.e., the more money you pour on a problem, the better it resolves itself). I'm arguing that someone at some point has to actually think about how to resolve it, regardless of cost. That someone is the resource you have paid for. So we're saying the same thing backwards. To me, it is more interesting to see how the resources go about solving the problem efficiently, not that a larger quantity of resources must be allocated to solve a larger problem. I'm going to give up trying to get that across now.
  55. Re:Real ripple effects, even from this small event by pushf+popf · · Score: 1

    I think you are arguing that investment in resources is more important than technicality (i.e., the more money you pour on a problem, the better it resolves itself). I'm arguing that someone at some point has to actually think about how to resolve it, regardless of cost. That someone is the resource you have paid for. So we're saying the same thing backwards. To me, it is more interesting to see how the resources go about solving the problem efficiently, not that a larger quantity of resources must be allocated to solve a larger problem. I'm going to give up trying to get that across now. There's no solution for DOS that I'm aware of (other than staggering capacity), except reworking the entire network infrastructure to allow a server to revoke a client's priviledges(along with non-spoofable addresses), or replacing Windows with something that can't be so easily compromised.

    Unfortunately, neither is going to happen any time soon.

  56. Re:Real ripple effects, even from this small event by Mixel · · Score: 1
    There's no solution for DOS that I'm aware of (other than staggering capacity)
    But there are slightly better and worse attempts at a solution. EveryDNS seems to have dealt with the problem gracefully. That makes me interested in what method they used, as it was probably one of the better ones (and I should learn about those).
  57. Re:Real ripple effects, even from this small event by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    These kinds of attacks ARE TERRORISM plain and simple.

    While Homeland Security is running around jailing dark middle eastern gentleman on no grounds, organized mafias are systematically stealing resources around the world and using these massive computing resources for mischief. Computing power is real power in an economy that is so heavily networked, and I wish that nation's top law enforcement looked more seriously at these threats.

    It * is * a terrorist threat. Do you realize how many American desktops and business computers are under the control of foreign invaders? These could be used to cripple the American economy if the attacks shifted from targeted/DDoS/spam to something more political.

  58. Re:Real ripple effects, even from this small event by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Prevent? How?"

    HEY! Can't you read?!? He didn't say *prevent* - he said PERVENT, and it's a completely different thing!

    Perventation is most simplicitude itslef, if ur as cluedinous as bky1701, dontcha know?

  59. But not for that reason by erice · · Score: 1

    E-mail is plenty reliable if you engineer it to be so.

    Relying on a single third party DNS service is pretty stupid if reliability important.
    Redundant links, geographically and geopolitically dispersed DNS, careful administration.
    Engineer reliability between all important endpoints.

    Do that and you can send rather important things via e-mail and be confident that they will get there on time.

    Be sloppy and it's no better than relying on a cell phone with poor coverage, a weak battery, and a pre-paid plan.