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Looking Beyond Vista To Fiji and Vienna
Vinit wrote in with an article that describes Microsoft's strategy for future versions of Windows. It begins: "As we all know that Microsoft Vista was originally scheduled to be released in 2003, after two years of Windows XP, but it got delayed by over five years due to various reasons. Definitely, Vista is very very improved OS over the previous versions, but the delayed in the launch has cost Microsoft, billions of dollars. Now the question at the moment is, what exactly after Vista? Microsoft can't afford to wait another five years for an operating system. People are becoming more aware of the choices they have, and Linux is no longer a hobbyist OS, and that day isn't far away when it becomes simple enough to be a viable alternative to Windows. The competition is fierce. That is why, to stay at the top, Microsoft has planned a 'Vista R2', codenamed 'Fiji' which will be released some time in 2008. And after Fiji, there will be Windows 'Vienna'. Windows Fiji, will not be a totally different OS from Vista; but it will be an add-on. Whereas Vienna will be totally different from Vista."
Apple are progressively upgrading the OS having smaller releases. This is closer to the Linux way of working.
Once you get your basic design right you can gradually improve and alter things. This is where Microsoft failed, their security model was flawed, so with Vista they've fixed it (or so they say).
Ok, so from TFA: "One thing is for certain, Vienna won't be just an operating system, but a new generation in computing."
.Mac. Or, come to think of it, do what I've already done; use LiteStep and mod my current XP install.
How, we all ask, will it achieve such wonders?
The answer: "Windows Fiji will feature a more powerful sidebar, Monaco, a music authoring tool similar to Apple's Garageband, default playback of HD-DVD, more advanced Speech Recognition, and new themes, icons, wallpapers, games, and minor tweaks to almost everything."
Mmmhmm. I can't be the only one sitting here thinking 'what a load of bull'. I mean, really, if I wanted to get this apparently 'new generation' of computing, I'd go out and buy a
A illiterate intro based on a brief article from a random blog that doesn't quote any sources. That's what I call credibility.
Right, because when you have a product that essentially sells itself and has no real competitors, why would you want to keep releasing new versions that people will line up to pay for over and over again?
Witness the release of Vista, and then witness a re-release a couple of years later with bug fixes, feature improvements, security improvement rollups, and a few new (probably non-exclusive) applications rolled in to make the pill go down more sweetly. Everything old is made new again. Move along.
But the article says it was delayed by 5+ years, not that it came out 5+ years after XP.
Perhaps what the author meant to say was that the intended 2 year interval between releases became 5+ years.
Definitely, Vista is very very improved OS over the previous versions, but the delayed in the launch has cost Microsoft, billions of dollars.
I'm not looking for Shakespeare here, but the submitter is what, eight?
sic transit gloria mundi
Wrong! Get it right, Vienna is *not* vaporware; it's sausageware! Sheesh, some people...
Yet another Apple innovation, appropriated by Microsoft. Have they no shame?
SIERRA TANGO FOXTROT UNIFORM
Windows Fiji will feature a more powerful sidebar, Monaco, a music authoring tool similar to Apple's Garageband, default playback of HD-DVD, more advanced Speech Recognition, and new themes, icons, wallpapers, games, and minor tweaks to almost everything.
:)
While in Windows Vienna the current interface will be completely stripped, no more explorer shells, and taskbars. No start menu. Probably no toolbars, or menus and Speech Recognition will become a major input device. One thing is for certain, Vienna won't be just an operating system, but a new generation in computing.
So Fiji is going to rip off all the cool features of Leopard and incorporate into Vista while Vienna aims to be the next generation of computing. Why does this sound so familiar... oh wait....
And didn't we just recently have an article on stupid movie uses of computers that blasted the "talking computer" from Star Trek as being a completely useless interface? So why is this a good thing?
But it's also Microsoft. "2003" was codespeak for 2007, so "2008" means 2015 or something... and all the cool new features will be dropped for reasons of infeasibility anyway.
Exactly what is the basis for spouting this load of crap? How about this list of why Vista is inferior to previous versions of windows:
.doc
No Support for IPX, Appletalk, WebDav, or NetDDE
Even less capable backup built in than XP, which itself had inferior backup to previous versions
High cost
Bloat #1 - takes over 10GB of hard disk
Bloat #2 - 2GB of RAM needed
Crippled wordpad can't read
Obtuse menuing requiring going in half a dozen or more levels in for basic controls
Stupid ReadyBoost trying to do what would be better done by simple swap/page to usb device, except RB is MUCH slower
Hardware vendors not in hurry to support Vista
in short, you'll gain nothing and lose functionality by going to Vista. save your money, just say NO.
Until the day Vista ships, MS is getting huge amounts of cash from Windows XP licenses on almost every new PC sold. Most people don't run out and buy a new OS for existing PCs, they usually stick with whatever came with it. How exactly will Vista increase MS's revenue to the tune of billions? Had they released something sooner, what new cash flow would that have provided and would it have justified the expense for development?
I'm sortof dancing around my real point here: I think the *real* reason so much time has gone buy since XP is that Microsoft really hasn't had much incentive to release a new OS.
Aren't windows code names traditionally cities? The fact that they are using a contry name for an upgraded version of Vista that experienced a military coup d'état a year ago (while vista development was in full swing) makes me wonder if this is a bad omen.
As for "file locations" being managed by applications - mmm, no thanks, I rather group files by projects which can involve many applications. What I'd really love is a return to the functionality present in Word for DOS, where the application would look in the current working directory for project specific configuration files.
Anybody who follows Gates knows that he has been serious about speach (sic) recognition for a long time.
It's hard for anyone who does not "follow" the cult of Gates to take anything he says seriously. He's been promising the moon and stars for decades but has yet to deliver anything but mild UI modifications. Generally, his company writes down a wish list of competitor's features and promises to deliver them bigger and better in his "next" release. As the years roll by he drops all of the features until he's left with something like Vista, which offerst the user little beyond DRM madness and a UI upgrade, which he then invariably promotes as "revolutionary".
Despite all of that, I thought he liked to talk about handwriting recognition. You know, the tablet PC, that' he's promissed the world since the Apple Newton. Palm, OpenZarus and Xstroke all beat him to the punch and his tablet PC has yet to catch on.
He might as well claim his next OS will have AI and do "seemless" speech recognition. He won't loose much credibility that way. At this point, he's got so little to use, I'd sooner believe penis pill spam.
DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
"There are lies, damned lies, and Microsoft promises."
We've heard it all before. Seriously. And it happens just like that: "Yeah, we know XP isn't that much of an upgrade to MS-Windows 2k, but you should see Longhorn! Oh, it's gonna be great! It'll milk your cows, skim the cream, and make fresh ice cream! It'll put your kids through college! Oh, and it'll, uh, make your complexion clear up, and get rid of your herpes!"
Every time Microsoft releases a less-than-stellar product (which is invariably), they start bragging about how great things will be in the *next* release, on which they haven't even started working. That's the Microsoft modus operandi: promise more than the competition currently has, and deliver less. Wash, rinse, repeat.
Microsoft is to software what Budweiser is to beer.
Yes, he's been crazy about speech recognition, and it makes a certain sort of sense. However, the idea that speech recognition alone will replace the keyboard interface shows a lack of imagination. Part of the reason we've stuck with keyboards for as long as we have is they're efficient. They're cheap, can operate easily in noisy areas, and allow for purposeful manipulation of text. If you're a good typist, keyboards can be faster and easier, too. And can you imagine trying to play Half-Life with a speech interface? Keyboards aren't going anywhere.
So what does that leave for speech? Maybe you can say, "launch microsoft word" and then, once it's launched, you start typing. Or you could say, "next song" and iTunes would switch to the next song instead of having to click on a button. Wowwie! And what happens when you're sitting at your computer, and you say something to your friend about "the next song in my playlist..." How does it know you don't want to go to the next song?
The problem is that having computers respond naturally to speech requires an awful lot of AI that we won't have anytime soon. Even if we do have that amount of AI in a PC someday, it's still not clear that a keyboard won't be preferable for many interactions. Of course, maybe once we have that level of AI, we won't be trying to type anything up anymore anyway. I'll say, "Computer, please write a letter to my mom." and the computer will just do it. "Computer, write me a slashdot post on this topic."
There are only two groups of people I'm aware of who think that it's a good idea speech recognition for the purpose of doing away with keyboards, and have really good text-to-speech to you so you won't have to read. Those two groups are "children" and "Bill Gates". The best major applications for these technologies are accessibility for the disabled and portable devices. That's pretty much it for the foreseeable future.
IPX and AppleTalk are dead. Vint said it best... IP Everywhere.
And here's the timeline for 'Vienna':
2007 Q1 Vista released; work on Vienna begins.
2007 Q4 Microsoft announces Vienna will contain innovative new filesystem
2008 Q2 Microsoft projects release date for 'Vienna' as late 2010 or early 2011
2008 Q3 Microsoft announces Vienna will revolutionize the internet desktop
2009 Q2 Microsoft announces Vienna's filesystem will make search irrelevant
2009 Q4 Microsoft projects release date for Vienna as second half of 2011
2010 Q1 Microsoft announces Vienna will be inherently more secure than Vista
2010 Q2 Microsoft announces Vienna's new API will make developers' jobs easy
2010 Q4 Microsoft announces Vienna will have built-in internet telephony (VOIP)
2011 Q2 Microsoft projects release date for Vienna in early 2012
2011 Q3 Microsoft announces Vienna will work with next-generation security hardware
2012 Q1 Microsoft announces partnership with wireless internet provider to enhance Vienna's
internet telephony, allowing users to go "unplugged"
2012 Q2 Microsoft projects Vienna release date pushed back to 2013
2012 Q3 Microsoft announces Vienna's wireless internet telephony will make cellphones obsolete
2013 Q1 Microsoft announces Vienna's wireless internet telephony will be more secure than cellphones
2013 Q3 Microsoft announces Vienna kernel will be most secure OS kernel ever
2013 Q4 Microsoft projects Vienna release date in early 2014
2014 Q1 Microsoft announces the new filesystem may not be ready for RTM but will ship
just after Vienna in a service pack
2014 Q2 Microsoft announces Vienna public beta will be forthcoming later in the year
2014 Q3 Microsoft announces the new developer API will be spun off as a separate project from Vienna
2014 Q4 Microsoft promises Vienna release no later than 2015 Q2
2015 Q1 Deal with wireless internet company falls through
2015 Q2 Microsoft announces innovative filesystem will be in release after Vienna
2015 Q2 Microsoft announces Vienna will still feature "unplugged" internet telephony,
but user will have choice of third-party wireless providers
2015 Q3 Microsoft releases limited beta of Vienna to select individuals and companies
2015 Q3 Reviews of Vienna start coming out; reviewers note internet telephony not present
2015 Q4 Microsoft announces final product name for Vienna will be Windows Fiesta
2015 Q4 Microsoft confirms internet telephony will not be ready to ship with first release
2016 Q1 Microsoft releases public beta of Fiesta to a wider audience
2016 Q2 Microsoft announces final release date for Fiesta in November; nobody believes it
2016 October Microsoft announces Windows Fiesta will be available to select customers in
November, retail version will ship in January
2016 November Microsoft announces Fiesta now available to select customers
2017 January Microsoft actually releases Windows Fiesta
Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
MS don't know what will be in Vienna, because Apple haven't invented it yet. This means nothing to me.
Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious
I have no use for Vista or any of it's follow ups.
I have no interest in an operating system designed to protect content owners, protect microsoft with horrible activation functionality and little to no benefit to myself.
If I didn't require Windows for work I'd have nothing to do with it. I've been a long time Windows user since Windows 3.1 and each release seemed to be such a major improvement over the previous. Until Vista. Vista is not a users operating system. It's more of a prison.
Wow. It's also a capital in a country in europe. You do know where europe is?
Founded some 2500 years ago. Not like it sprung up over night, like the maybe dozen Viennas you got in USA
Any story about Saddam's execution on /. would most likely just be people debating the quality (or lack there of) of the knot used on the rope he hung from. (Looked pretty mean!)
Sugapablo
Voice recognition is a stupid way to enter text into a computer. In a cubicle, where your neighbours can hear you it's completely annoying. In your house, where you have the TV on in the background and kids continually talking, I can't imagine it would work that well, Unless you had a silent office where you weren't going to bother other people, I couldn't see this being an advantage. And even then, People don't talk how they write. If most people saw what they said written down on the screen, they wouldn't even be able to understand it. Keyboards work a lot better for entering text.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
Speech recognition is 'nice' - but that's it. I cannot imagine an office full of people all gabbling at their PCs without going nuts.
Few things I'd like to see are:
1) Tight integration to client devices. I stuck MCE onto my PC and it really was a pleasure to see my TV stuff picked up by their lovely BDA drivers and all that Tivo stuff appear. Whilst that was nice, it was nowhere near the f'in quantum leap when I pointed my 360 at my big PC over the wifi and got all those features suddenly appearing on my 40" screen.
Wifi implementation is very cheap and MS are normally good at allowing 3rd parties to access their tech (unlike Apple), yet have not quite managed to sell it very well. I'd like a clock radio that played my podcasts etc - I think I just like the idea of having a big central PC that can do all the heavy lifting and a number of thin clients that can all access it (and not all have to have their own bespoke software running on the back end).
2) Haptic stuff. Look at the Wii. Could be basic stuff like a laptop just turning off the screen if there's nobody sitting infront of it or mouse gestures like strokeit integrated into the GUI.
3) Telephony. I've no idea why I have an IP deskphone and laptop sitting on my desk. They have messenger which provides perfectly good person to person calls, they have outlook that provides a centralized mail and calendar resource - can't they just bolt on telephony? Point my deskphone number to my laptop wherever it is, divert to mobile if my PC is off, hold calls if I'm in a meeting etc?
4) Have some balls when it comes to hardware manufacturers. Apple is able to say 'right, we're using the new bios thingie' and make the hardware. MS tentatively seems to make steps towards it, but continuously supports old stuff. Now I know they have to support the old stuff and I know many people appreciate it - but they need to clearly define what hardware they want people to use to optimize 'the experience' and tell Dell. They have started to do this with the Vista certification - I've no idea why people bitch abotu this, but if you want flashy graphics, you need a decent PC and you need people to be able to buy that decent PC with confidence. The quasi-flash drives supported under Vista are a good thing - but I WANT MORE.
5) Better implementation of Bluetooth (and whatever comes along next). I'd love to be able to have my PC boot up (maybe into hibernation) when my phone walks in through the door. Popup on my phone screen with a summary (at least) when I get an email.
Just reading through my points, it seems I want integration. I may be in a minority as most people here seem to get their knickers in a twist when MS bundle a browser with XP - but I want all my stuff to just work together nicely and out of the box. I can't expect MS to support every device, but maybe if they just published some open standards (or formally adopted the perfectly good open ones we already have) hardware manufacturers WOULD comply (as I would buy).
So, at this time, one job was the person who listened to a recording and transcribed the recording into written text, oftimes reformatting it in a prescribed fashion. Though the shuttle is piloted largely by three redundant computers, we still have people transcribing letters. To be sure, some of this has to do with the amount that is costs for a human to do each of these tasks, and the accuracy, but a lot has to do with the difficulty of automating creative tasks like cooking and cleaning and transcribing. Add to this that in many cases people wish these tasks to be done how they like at the moment, and not in an absolute prescribed form and the result is a huge engineering problem.
So, if we begin to live in the 21st century, and leave the bigoted preconceptions behind, then we see that speech recognition is a specific solution that efficiently utilizes a specific resource, the human brain. And, if like in flight, we do not try to emulate the flapping of the wings but the result of the flapping of the wings, then we might see that the keyboard based solution is in fact an efficient solution that utilizes the strengths of the current resource, the electronic computer.
This does not mean that speech recognition does not have its place. Apple uses it to allow the launching of applications and the like, which is useful for certain people. More advanced speech recognition is available for those who want it. However, spending time on this instead of say, a pseudo self organizing file system, seems quite pointless.
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
Because if you rent a single "last" version to them then they will pay you money forever, and you don't need big product launches every five years.
Slashdot: where don knuth is an idiot because he cant grasp the awesome power of php
Blackcomb was the name, now it's morphed into "Vienna." Windows code names seem to come from resorts. I believe that what we call "heavy irony," as Windows is neither relaxing nor fun.
Good. Cheap. Fast. Pick Two.
Or maybe "Windows Atlantis"?
What?
Or just sentence fragments. Sometimes it can be so difficult. To tell if the author is simply illiterate. That he can't tell where commas go. Or sometimes just spaces. That makes it confusing. As well as looking dumb.
You appear very fast to judge things, but I think you might be missing a big piece of the action there, or the potential action, most likely because you are younger and still fit. I am guessing on that though.
In a perfect world what you said makes some sense, but think on this: In the US the population is aging. Younger folks are a minority, and guess what? You'll get old, too. With aging comes afflictions like arthritis. Once you get it, even a twinge, you'll understand how incredibly $valuable$ and how incredibly useful a voice activated system could be. The first company to really nail it will be rich beyond the dreams of avarice as the expression goes.
MY GF has it in her hands, sometimes she just sits and cries because her hands are on fire,that's how she describes it, like being on fire, and then she can't do anything, nothing that requires any dexterity at all. She used to do fine painting, a lot of intense sewing, etc, stuff like that, but can't anymore. Typing is just out, and there are many many millions like her out there now. It's like having no fingers at all, but it hurts. She can only type very slowly and painfully and because of that hardly uses her computer anymore.
Now, how abvout blind folks? Think it might be a handy option for them as well? How about folks with anything like palsy? Heck, I am thinking for me, say I am out working on some vehicle and I want to look something up. Spend 5 minutes with the degreaser before I go touch the keyboard, or just yammer at it to get to where I want to get, and print it out? Useful there too.
Ah c'mon. If you steal our cities, steal Klagenfurt (feel free to take the whole of Carinthia) but leave our capital alone.
Sincerely,
A Concerned Austrian.
Free as in mason.
Windows code names seem to come from resorts. I believe that what we call "heavy irony," as Windows is neither relaxing nor fun.
I myself only install Microsoft operating systems as a last resort.
Yeah they also built in the google desktop search, caught up (sort of) with linux and mac security from five years ago, and stuck in a bunch of Treacherous Computing and Digital Restrictions Managment.
Hell of an upgrade.
This comment is fully compliant with RFC 527.