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When Celebrities Speak on Science

Timberwolf0122 writes to mention that the website Sense About Science is encouraging stars not to comment on scientific issues without at least checking their facts. A somewhat amusing article on the BBC matches up a few comments made by celebrities with the factual reaction from experts in the field of study tackled by their blunder.

29 of 574 comments (clear)

  1. Ask a scientist by BWJones · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I gotta say as a scientist and professor that I agree completely with this position of reserving comment in the public spotlight until you have done a little homework. All too often we have celebrities and politicians using their status to manipulate science to bend to a political whim or will, or simply to just espouse a misunderstanding. Fundamentally, the problem is that we have a very poor science education curriculum in many schools in the US and internationally and we get individuals who are high school dropouts become actors and are now capable of garnering much attention towards their issue of the moment. That is not intended to be insulting nor does it minimize their position or status, it is simply asking them to refrain from doing a job they are not qualified for.

    We have minimized the importance of science in our lives and it is now biting us collectively in the ass in terms of environment, medicine, technological progress, and education. Rather than hamstringing scientists, and only allowing them to speak when it serves the political climate of the moment, I would very much like to see a return to using scientists expertise in more areas of society and policy, perhaps even increasing the numbers of consultants for politicians, and the entertainment industry, not just as a reality check, which so many seem to be mis-using scientists for, but also as a means to spur inquiry and progress in both the arts and sciences. The model of using scientists as regulators of policy and such is as old as 1950's Sci-Fi, but it has been no accident that during the most progressive periods in history, we have relied on scientists and others who are trained to think and inquire to make some of our biggest technological advancements. These advancements include great strides in medicine, prolonging life-spans and improving the quality of life as well as ending global wars and in the absence of political influences, ending famine and disease.

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    1. Re:Ask a scientist by smilindog2000 · · Score: 5, Funny

      It's a good thing we always know what we're talking about here on /. :-)

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      Beer is proof that God loves us, and wants us to be happy.
    2. Re:Ask a scientist by BWJones · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I have no problem with you calling me out. In fact, I welcome it.

      You have read all of those things into what I said. I never said "don't act without consulting a scientist" or any of the other things you suggest. What I said was "I would very much like to see a return to using scientists expertise in more areas of society and policy, perhaps even increasing the numbers of consultants for politicians, and the entertainment industry, not just as a reality check, which so many seem to be mis-using scientists for, but also as a means to spur inquiry and progress in both the arts and sciences." which is very far away from anything you inferred. My position is that when we make decisions that can benefit from science and individuals who are trained to think and question, we are better off for it. That does not mean that religion gets pushed away, nor does it mean that science always does "good". What it does mean is that we become more careful about some of the things we do, especially as technology and power become more available. It also means that if we introduce more science into our daily lives, we become less reliant on small groups of powerful people to vet what we think, do and believe and we become less vulnerable to temporal vanities or trends.

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    3. Re:Ask a scientist by meta-monkey · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Okay. Please starve yourself to death then.

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      We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
    4. Re:Ask a scientist by NoTheory · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The obnoxious part about straw-man arguments like parent's post is that it is premised on the very problem that scientists and realists are so pissed off about.

      A culture of fact isn't predicated on the specific individuals involved. The point is to leave behind cults of personality, and focus on the content of what is said. Good scientists* don't want to be celebrities, or rock-stars. They don't want people to follow everything they do. They don't want hoards of groupies or worshipers. They want people to learn about and understand the things they're making decisions about.

      [* note i said good scientists. There are plenty of scientists who want to be celebrities or rockstars. But that's for the sake of their own ego, not for the advancement of science]

      --
      There are lives at stake here!
    5. Re:Ask a scientist by Weston+O'Reilly · · Score: 5, Interesting

      As a proud Roman Catholic, I have this advice: If you want your kids to learn the theory of evolution, send them to a Catholic school.

    6. Re:Ask a scientist by Xzzy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well, if it were treated as an individual, "Slashdot" could be an expert on a great many topics, because I guarantee there's quite a few "experts" that read the site, who are probably authorities on a great many different things.

      Problem is they're either all too smart to post, or sit at +2 for eternity because they took too long to post, or got ignored to make room for a +5 funny. ;) Sometimes going back to a week old article can find some really interesting comments.

    7. Re:Ask a scientist by Total_Wimp · · Score: 4, Insightful
      I gotta say as a scientist and professor that I agree completely with this position of reserving comment in the public spotlight until you have done a little homework. All too often we have celebrities and politicians using their status to manipulate science to bend to a political whim or will, or simply to just espouse a misunderstanding.

      But it helps if the educated scientists give more reliable answers than the celebrities.

      In the first example in the article, Melinda Messenger says she doesn't want man-made chemicals in her or her children's bodies. Though this does ignore the fact that most chemicals aren't very harmful in the doses we're likely to encounter, the scientists response actually seems to support her point.

      Dr John Hoskins: "Most leave quickly but some stay: asbestos and silica in our lungs, dioxins in our blood. The most important thing is dose: one aspirin cures a headache, a hundred kills."

      Sounds to me like he's almost completely supporting her point that putting a lot of chemicals in your body can be bad. His other points, in paragraph 1 and 3 point out that our routine exposure is probably small, but doesn't actually refute what she's saying, that we should be wary of introducing more chemicals unless we know what effect they'll have on us. His entire response is framed as pointing out the flaws in her arguments, but his actual arguments say otherwise.

      The worst one was at the end. Joanna Lumley says we shouldn't be putting chemicals and growth stimulants in our cattle. She probably doesn't have any proof that these things can hurt people, and the scientist points that out.

      But the scientist, Prof John Toy, uses these words: "It is essential that 'cancer-causing' claims are based only on scientifically proven facts, not scaremongering. There is no definitive evidence that controlled food additives cause cancer.

      Replace "cancer" with "global warming" and replace "controlled food additives" with "human activity" and you have almost exactly the argument used by oil companies and many conservatives to claim global warming does not exist. It's not a logical argument, it's an argument that insinuates that any possible error on her part, no matter how small, makes his argument correct. The words "definitive" and "fact" are the nasty ones in this case. The truth is, science is usually somewhat vague and full of additional questions and problems that must be solved, especially in answering new questions, like the kind that are constantly coming up in the rapidly changing field of food additives. He's not claiming he has any proof that she's wrong, he's just claiming that because she's not holding "definitive facts" in her hand, that makes him right.

      Professor Toy then goes on to say, "We do know that half of cancers are caused by lifestyle factors such as being overweight." He's using this as an argument that the actress is incorrect. Once again, though it may sound like a refutation, it's just more false logic. Just because his statement may be true says absolutely nothing about the accuracy of her statement. In fact, half the factors being lifestyle related point very strongly to half of them being something else.

      My whole long-winded point is that this kind of non-science repudiation of non-scientists may work just fine to convince average Joe that celebrity X is wrong, but it does very little to teach him the type of arguments that are valid. In fact, it cements in Joe's mind that since scientist use arguments based on logical falicies, that those kinds of arguments must be scientifically valid. It's a bad message to be sending.

      BTW, the other two actually looked good to me. They're straight forward responses to reasonably straight forward comments.]

      TW
    8. Re:Ask a scientist by Grym · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yes it's called "Engineer's Disease." People are experts on one topic, so they think they're experts on all topics.

      To be fair, though, the scientific disciplines aren't completely insular and unrelated as many people would like to think. Believe it or not, but my Biology classes taught me a lot (even if only tangentially, at times) about law, computer science, politics, and even philosophy.

      And in all honesty, the most important aspect of a science education is teaching the method through which one should derive his or her information and opinions. Because while our understanding of the world may change, the logic by which we draw those conclusions--by and large--won't. And, once you've trained yourself to rationally analyze things, you can apply that skill to any intellectual pursuit. The same cannot be said for arts, such as, for example, acting. The skill of acting, may make you be able to act like you have an informed opinion, but it doesn't help you actually say anything of worth.

      So, if given the choice, I'd be much more open to listen to what an engineer has to say about global warming than Leonardo DiCaprio. And that is why I come to slashdot, instead of something like Leo's "Eco-site" when I'm in search of an informed opinion and not a good laugh.

      -Grym

    9. Re:Ask a scientist by Total_Wimp · · Score: 4, Insightful
      When creationism is taught as science, and evolution is merely a theory that can be easily discarded, then yes, I'd say the science curriculum in US schools is lacking.

      It's worth pointing out that those were a tiny fraction of the schools in our country, they got very widespread condemnation for their actions, they lost every important court case and an entire school board was replaced by the voters because of this.

      When I see any group with problems, I have less of a tendency to judge the group based on those problems than to judge the group based on how they deal with those problems. In this case, the problem was small (compared to the group as a whole) and it was dealt with swiftly. I know the media coverage made it seem bigger, but that's ok with me. It made the smack-down look bigger and left a big neon warning to anyone who tries again.

      TW
    10. Re:Ask a scientist by coredog64 · · Score: 5, Informative

      So, if given the choice, I'd be much more open to listen to what an engineer has to say about global warming than Leonardo DiCaprio. From all the accounts I've read, Leonardo DiCaprio is actually an intelligent person.


            "DiCaprio's no idiot," says one insider. "His questions about the M1
            and M2 money supply really impressed the president, and when he
            floated a proposal about allowing offshore hedge funds to manage
            Social Security, Clinton's ears really perked up. They were smart
            questions, tough questions -- not the kind of questions you'd expect
            from Barbara Walters."

            Other insiders agree. "DiCaprio knows more about currency fluctuations
            than Cokie Roberts, Diane Sawyer and Sam Donaldson rolled into one,"
            says one source at ABC. "He's not just another pretty face."


      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/scripts/wa.exe?A2=ind00 04b&L=wnn&P=2044
  2. why stop at science? by OffTheLip · · Score: 5, Funny

    Celebrities should be seen not heard.

    1. Re:why stop at science? by Hijacked+Public · · Score: 4, Funny

      Why stop at celebrities?

      --
      "Sacrifice for the good of The State" - The State
    2. Re:why stop at science? by Rude+Turnip · · Score: 4, Funny

      "Celebrities should be seen not heard."

      If this somehow involves a vacuum chamber, then I'm all for it.

  3. Ugh by SengirV · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Yet idiots in the US clammor for celebs to speak on their behalf in front of congress. I know that when I want to know more about ALAR and it's effects, I look to Merrill Streep.

    --

    Prof. Farnsworth - "Oh a lesson in not changing history from Mr I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!"

  4. Three words...... by 8127972 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Never Gonna Happen.

    Stars think that because of the fact that they are famous and are seen by millions of people, they have the right to have an opinion about anything. There are times that that is good (George Clooney on Dafur for example) and I personally have no problem with that as long as the opinion as long as it is an informed opinion. But the fact is that stars are just like end users with computer hardware or software. They are not going to read something to avoid shooting themselves in the foot. They'll just start shooting and hope for the best.

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    1. Re:Three words...... by Nos. · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Stars think that because of the fact that they are famous and are seen by millions of people, they have the right to have an opinion about anything.
      Not quite. Because they live in a "free" society, they have a right to an opinion on everything. The problem is that the mainstream public believes that if someone famous says something, it must be true.

    2. Re:Three words...... by gstoddart · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Stars think that because of the fact that they are famous and are seen by millions of people, they have the right to have an opinion about anything.

      No, stars recognize that (like the rest of us) they are entitled to have an opinion about anything. The problem is, if you're believing Tom Cruise's opinions about anti-depressants, you're a flipping idiot, because his opinion is based on junk science and the fact that he's a raving lunatic.

      But, stars with opinions are no different than anyone else with an opinion, except for the fact that they are seen by millions of people. But, that doesn't mean they're gonna be any more careful about having them than the rest of us.

      Cheers
      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
  5. And in the same spirit... by Tx · · Score: 5, Funny

    ...the article also encourage slashdot posters not to reply without first reading the article!

    Well, it might say that, I haven't read it yet :s

    --
    Oh no... it's the future.
  6. Re:sCientology by CaffeineAddict2001 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Yeesh, somebody has a low thetan count today.

  7. Melinda Messenger by Nighttime · · Score: 5, Funny

    I love this quote by Melinda Messenger: "Why should I allow my body or my children to be filled with man-made chemicals, when I don't know what the health effects of these substances will be."

    That would be the same Melinda Messenger that has breast implants.

    --
    I've got a fever and the only prescription is more COBOL.
    1. Re:Melinda Messenger by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      Why should I allow my body ... to be filled with man-made chemicals... Am I the only one who thought she was pushing for the use of condoms?
  8. While we're at it by Marcos+Eliziario · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I don't know about you in the rest of the world. But here in Brasil, we would be very thankful if they stoped talking about politics also.

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  9. Re:The qualifications for 'celebrity' by CaffeineAddict2001 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Show a lot of things happing at once,
    Remind everyone of what's going on (what's going on?)
    And with every shot you show a little improvement
    To show it all would take to long
    That's called a montage (montage)
    Oh we want montage (montage)

  10. Actual site link by Mr+44 · · Score: 4, Informative

    http://www.senseaboutscience.org.uk/

    Not sure why this wasn't in the BBC article...

  11. The Cult of Celebrity and Authority by Spencerian · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It's amazing how many people confuse popularity for authoritative, scientific thought. This conceit goes so far that many celebrities believe themselves. As we've already noted, people like Tom Cruise, Barbara Streisand, and Jane Fonda do this all too regularly. Why in the world would some actor know more about AIDS or cancer (even testifying in front of Congress, for frak's sake) than the average Joe or a medical professional?

    Actors should be reminded that, just because they've played a doctor, doesn't make them one.

    Other popular people should be pelted with rotten produce and harsh words by the anti-clique popular people whose feet are well grounded as to who they are and what they really know, like Dennis Miller (most of the time).

    --
    Vos teneo officium eram periculosus ut vos recipero is.
  12. Made me think of RouterGod by wsanders · · Score: 4, Funny

    I dunno, Paris Hilton's opinion on CCIE Storage certification is pretty spot-on:

    http://www.routergod.com/index.php?p=30

    --
    Give a man a fish and you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish, and he'll say "WHERE'S MY FISH, YOU IDIOT?"
  13. Re:seconded. by AuMatar · · Score: 5, Funny

    So did the altar boys.

    Yeah, thats mean. I just couln't help myself.

    --
    I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
  14. Re:The qualifications for 'celebrity' -- But ... by irenaeous · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ... the problem with articles like these is that the criticism is not always fair.

    I see nothing wrong with the first two celebrity comments.

    "Why should I allow my body or my children to be filled with man-made chemicals, when I don't know what the health effects of these substances will be?"

    Melinda Messenger is criticized for this because small amounts of man-made chemicals are present in the body at all times. But Melinda's remark does not deny this or address that issue at all. Her comment is about unspecified "large doses" (i.e. being "filled with") man-made chemicals. The question is perfectly fair. The implication of her remark is that the general population is being exposed to excessive dosages of toxic man-made chemicals. That by itself, is likely to be true in many cases. Yes, she should give specifics. We need to see the context of her remarks. But the above snippet is not self evidentially false, and is a perfectly fair question and concern.

    "...he was in serious pain, just below the knee, and I felt the area above had been traumatised. I started feeling and I'd say within 20 minutes, he was walking again. It took away the pain."

    Once again, no context is given. Chris De Burgh is singled out for what? Related the facts of what happened? Truthfully? And the scientist critic believes that what he said was true? And gave a plausible explanation of the cause? What falsehoods did Chris De Burgh communicate? I don't see that he made any claim to have healed the underlying injury. Maybe he did in the greater context of his comments, but the comment above as quoted is perfectly OK.

    The other criticisms seem correct to me, but this kind of reporting bugs me because it is does not seem to me to be fair or cogent.