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Pictures of Titan's Lakes

Posted by samzenpus on from the in-space-nobody-can-hear-you-fish dept.

sighted writes "For decades, scientists have wondered if the thick orange haze that shrouds Saturn's giant moon Titan hid lakes of liquid methane on the surface, but there was no way to confirm it, until now. The Cassini flyby of July 22, 2006 took these striking images and were released today."

28 of 119 comments (clear)

  1. Vacation on Titan by Stephen+Tennant · · Score: 5, Funny

    Swimming in liquid farts

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    I spend most of my time in bed, darling.
    1. Re:Vacation on Titan by garcia · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That would then be like vacationing in Bayonne, NJ or Scranton, PA and no one wants to do that.

  2. Any signs of Transformers...? by suv4x4 · · Score: 3, Funny

    I heard they wander around the Solar system wrecking anything they see.

    1. Re:Any signs of Transformers...? by NeuroManson · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No, that's just Michael Bay.

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  3. Confirmed? by Cthefuture · · Score: 4, Interesting

    You mean "more evidence suggesting liquid"?

    Hardly proof.

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    The ratio of people to cake is too big
    1. Re:Confirmed? by iminplaya · · Score: 2, Funny

      Well...they are blue.

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      What?
    2. Re:Confirmed? by Nasarius · · Score: 3, Informative
      They seem fairly certain. From the original Nature article:
      Only two hypotheses are consistent with the radiometric and morphological characteristics of the dark patches: either we are observing liquid-filled lakes on Titan today, or depressions and channels formed in the past have now been infilled by a very low-density deposit that is darker than any observed elsewhere on Titan. The absence of any aeolian features in this area makes low-density, porous, unconsolidated sediments unlikely. This, combined with the morphologic characteristics of the dark patches, leads us to conclude that the dark patches are lakes containing liquid hydrocarbons.
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      LOAD "SIG",8,1
  4. More information at ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    This other location at the Cassini site, and this older article from the BBC.

    The original article is in the journal Nature, but you need a subscription to view it. You can still read the abstract, though.

  5. Evidence of life? by LarryLong · · Score: 2, Funny

    I'm surprised this isn't being reported as evidence that cows once lived on Titan.

  6. Somebody has to say it by LarryLong · · Score: 5, Funny

    Maybe the methane came from Uranus? Sorry. :)

  7. why is liquid methane a big deal? by Eto_Demerzel79 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I can understand that if we found liquid water elsewhere in the solar system it should make news, but who cares about liquid methane? Afterall Jupiter (http://www.nineplanets.org/jupiter.html) has "exotic" liquid metallic hydrogen and liquid helium. I doubt it is possible to drive any biologically important reactions at the temperatures present on Titan. We simply confirmed that our knowledge of the methane phase diagram is correct. Let me know if they find something useful, like platinum or palladium on Phobos...

    1. Re:why is liquid methane a big deal? by darkonc · · Score: 4, Interesting
      The reactions that we're used to will obviously not work on Titan, but there's always a (very small) possibility that other forms of life could could evolve in the context of methane seas. If nothing else, a liquid base would allow simple life forms to develop without having to figure out the physics of supporting themselves and move around (as per the way that life is believed to have evolved on earth).

      However, given that just about any chemical process is gonna run rather slow at the kinds of temperatures that exist on Titan we shouldn't expect any life that we find there to be very developed.

      The next obvious step is to send something down to swim in the methane oceans of titan, and see if it gets eaten (or, at least, finds signs of (non)organic life. I don' think that it's that much lower a probability than finding life signs on mars (presuming that we figure out how to look for methane-based life), although it's admittedly a bit more expensive to go to Jupiter than it is to go to Mars.

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      Sometimes boldness is in fashion. Sometimes only the brave will be bold.
    2. Re:why is liquid methane a big deal? by Nasarius · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Ehhh...the average surface temperature of Titan is estimated to be 90 Kelvin, compared to Mars at 210 Kelvin. It seems extremely unlikely that the kinds of chemical reactions necessary for any kind of life could occur.

      The discovery is a "big deal" because we know something about part of our solar system we didn't know before. If you read the articles, part of the discovery is a likely methane rainfall cycle, including "methanifers" (analogous to aquifers). It's fascinating stuff, IMO.

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      LOAD "SIG",8,1
    3. Re:why is liquid methane a big deal? by CorSci81 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I worked on this project as a grad student at Caltech, so I think I may actually have something useful to add. The reason we care is that Titan is the only other body in the solar system to exhibit anything remotely analogous to a hydrological cycle at Earth-like atmospheric pressure, and with observable surface geology. This is useful because it gives us a solar system analog to weather, hydrology, and hydrological weathering; which will benefit us in understanding how our own planet works. The only other planets that are remotely similar are Venus and Mars, which aren't that similar. If you can get past the temperature issue and replace water with methane/ethane Titan has the most Earth-like atmosphere of any other planet. That's why this is a big deal.

    4. Re:why is liquid methane a big deal? by Urkki · · Score: 2, Interesting
      It seems extremely unlikely that the kinds of chemical reactions necessary for any kind of life could occur.

      To me, it seems extremely unlikely that we could give any kind of reliable estimate on how unlikely that is...

      OTOH, all we'd need is a version of Urey-Miller experiment that used (our best guess of) the chemicals and the environment of Titan. Then let it simmer for a time, and see if any promising complex chain forming molecules (such as our amino acids) appeared... I wonder if anybody has attempted such and experiment.
    5. Re:why is liquid methane a big deal? by Eto_Demerzel79 · · Score: 2, Interesting
      OTOH, all we'd need is a version of Urey-Miller experiment that used (our best guess of) the chemicals and the environment of Titan. Then let it simmer for a time, and see if any promising complex chain forming molecules (such as our amino acids) appeared... I wonder if anybody has attempted such and experiment.
      It would definitely be worth a try if you had the glassware laying around but the temperature is still a problem. A more likely source for amino acids in an environment like Titan would probably be asteroids.
  8. Here's a question... by robogymnast · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Why did it take them 6 months to release the images?

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    1. Re:Here's a question... by Swimport · · Score: 3, Funny

      Why did it take them 6 months to release the images?

      Because thats how long it took to false color the image to look like a desert with lakes...

  9. Titan by Stephen Baxter by AHuxley · · Score: 3, Interesting

    A fun read. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titan_(Stephen_Baxter )

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    Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  10. Re:It reminds me... by necro2607 · · Score: 2, Informative

    I would imagine the imagine is a long strip like that because the Cassini radar instrument simply flew along in a straight line, therefore only capturing a narrow strip of surveyed data along that straight line (as opposed to getting a large square or circular capture).

  11. We've already landed there ffs. by mollymoo · · Score: 4, Informative

    Am I the only one who can remember that we put a lander on Titan a good 18 months prior to taking this image? The presence of liquid methane on the surface was confirmed one week later. Nice image, bad caption.

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    Chernobyl 'not a wildlife haven' - BBC News
    1. Re:We've already landed there ffs. by Tablizer · · Score: 4, Informative

      The lander did *not* detect existing pooled or flowing liquid. The radar evidence appears to be the first evidence of existing pooled/flowing liquid. The lander found plenty of *hints* of erosion typical of that associated with liquid, but it did not detect any active liquid (except maybe methane mist). The area it landed at is often characterized as a "dry lake bed".

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      Table-ized A.I.
  12. Looks like Minnesota by tinrobot · · Score: 2, Funny

    ...except Minnesota seems way colder that Titan.

    1. Re:Looks like Minnesota by Tablizer · · Score: 2, Insightful

      ...except Minnesota seems way colder that Titan.

      Don't worry, the Bush administration and Exxon are working hard and diligently to warm it up.

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      Table-ized A.I.
  13. Re:Evidence of life? thars petrolium by kurt555gs · · Score: 3, Funny

    Wow, Finally a way to get this administration to fund space exploration. Petroleum.

    Now if we could only start a rumor there are weapons of mass destruction, terrorist training camps, and Oceans of petroleum product on Titan, we could leave Iraq, and start a gold rush like rocket race to Saturn's moon.

    Ye Ha , lakes full or petro.

    Cheers

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    * Carthago Delenda Est *
  14. Re:Liquid methane? Maybe. by stoicio · · Score: 4, Informative

    "The images are blatantly false-colour. The blue areas meant to potray liquid (making people think of water) but could just as easily be ice or lava flows."

    Actually the intensity of the backscatter data is what is being shown.
    The brightness is logarithmic, therefore anything dark is very smooth
    and anything really bright is very bumpy. Since it is a log scale and
    there is a good idea what kind of backscatter to absorption ratio to expect
    from the synthetic aperture radar for various targets, they can conclude that
    the dark patches are glassy/ice-rink flat.

    They can also conclude that the dark patches could be liquid based on
    change detection, provided they have another series of overlapping data
    to compare. If the glassy areas undulate slightly between images (waves)
    they are probably liquid.

    Having noted this, 500 metres is kind of crappy resolution for
    SAR data. You'd think they'd make a closer flyby or put a better
    instrument onboard. I believe 1 (one) metre resolution SAR was available
    from instruments at the same altitude when cassini was designed.
    NASA just cheaped out.

  15. Re:Liquid methane? Maybe. by Tablizer · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Having noted this, 500 metres is kind of crappy resolution for
    SAR data. You'd think they'd make a closer flyby or put a better
    instrument onboard. I believe 1 (one) metre resolution SAR was available
    from instruments at the same altitude when cassini was designed.
    NASA just cheaped out.

    Cheaped out? Cassinni is the most expensive unmanned probe ever launched. I saw a to-scale model in a museum. It is a huge chunk of gadgets. Perhaps you could argue they underemphasized radar power at the expense of something else, but you cannot argue they went cheap.

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    Table-ized A.I.
  16. Re:I can't help myself... by aussie_a · · Score: 2, Insightful

    HAHAHAHAHA. Oh who ever knew that quoting Jim Carey could be flamebait.