AMD's All-in-One Media Machine

Drakewolf writes to tell us that despite the many failed attempts to bridge the gap between the PC and home entertainment systems, AMD has released several new products at CES under their LIVE! brand. The centerpiece was the AMD LIVE! Home Cinema, an all-in-one device that combines a set-top cable box, stereo receiver, DVD player, digital video recorder, and a PC.

Comments

failed attempts?

[macadamia_harold]

Drakewolf writes to tell us that despite the many failed attempts to bridge the gap between the PC and home entertainment systems

You mean like the xbox360? or the macmini running frontrow?

Re:failed attempts?

[flynt]

I have Media Center running on my laptop hooked up to a 24" monitor, which doubles as my TV. I can watch DVDs, slide shows, live TV, and recorded TV, it's simple. I can drop recorded shows into a directory which automatically converts them and puts them on my iPod. Even Media Center is not a failed attempt as far as I'm concerned.

Re:failed attempts?

[AK Marc]

Then you don't understand what they mean by "failed attempt." There are a number of products out there that do the job well. There are none that have gotten consumers to buy them in large numbers. Just because the products work well and have been delivered and sold doesn't make them a success. All have fallen short of their sales goals, so all of them are failures. You own a failure. That isn't a personal attack, it is a statement of fact. It works well. But it is a failure because your neighbors don't have it, don't want it, and probably don't know what it is.

Re:failed attempts?

[Ucklak]

Once HD can be recorded off another output device (component/HDMI) then I'm interested.
Otherwise, it's a failure.

Cablecard and HD-DVR's are failures at this point. Equipment for cablecards doesn't meet spec for cablecards and vice versa.
Your TV takes a cablecard but PPV doesn't work or any other extra that the crappy STB does.

HD-DVR's have nothing but bad news on all the forums I've read and people I've talked to - constantly rebooting, loss of recorded shows, noisy.

High end TV's now have a warm up time longer than a 25" TV did in the 1970s but that should get better in time as with most things electronic.

I want to be able to stream media to any TV in my home. I have F-connector and Cat5e jacks everywhere in my house as well as a centralized management center for the cabling.
MythTV seems to be the only solution at this point to meet that need however the HD recorded is OTA only of which I only have access to 13 channels where 4 channels are 1080i.

I'd like to be able to have a PVR record HD and stream to any TV but I don't want to be tied to an expensive and buggy proprietary solution (DirecTV HD-DVR/Cox HD) for one TV just to have the ability to record ANY HD channel.

Re:failed attempts?

[poot_rootbeer]

You mean like the xbox360? or the macmini running frontrow?

How about five years of Windows XP Media Center Edition?

Granted, a huge number of OEM PCs today are shipped with MCE pre-installed, because TV tuner cards got really cheap and the OS license is hardly different than XP Pro or Home. But how many of those end up hooked up to the TV in the living room?

I hate all-in-one devices

[morgan_greywolf]

All-in-One devices (of any sort) tend to do all of these related things, but none of them particularly well. On top of it, if one of it's functions quits on you, you generally have to replace the entire thing, since the all-in-one device will typically not integrate with anything external.

I understand why they continue to gain popularity (takes less space, you get all the functions for one price, uses less power, etc.), but in general you can always seem to do better from a functionality and features standpoint from individual components than from any integrated 'all-in-one' device.

Re:I hate all-in-one devices

[Umbrel]

Most likely we would be better with just USB stackable (wireless?) devices for physical media inputs (VHS, DVD, etc) and a really good software to handle it, or USB a hardware panel. Something like a all(you want)-in-one modular kit.

Re:I hate all-in-one devices

[MindStalker]

Looks like this "AMD LIVE" is a generic PC that comes with a bunch of Free software.
http://www2.amdlive.com/us-en/free_downloads.aspx

^^ Note some of this is truly free software, most of it is only free with the "AMD LIVE" PC.
Though it does look like once you have a subscription you can install most of it on other computers to share your Media Center experience across the household.

Re:I hate all-in-one devices

[melstav]

I understand why they continue to gain popularity (takes less space, you get all the functions for one price, uses less power, etc.), but in general you can always seem to do better from a functionality and features standpoint from individual components than from any integrated 'all-in-one' device. Yes, you can almost always get "better" from discrete components than you can from an "all-in-one". And some discrete components give you better results (and likely cost more) than others. I can build a home entertainment center from discrete components for well under $1K. Or I can spend $20K.

When you're dealing with a consumer market, there is a point at which the "goodness level" becomes "good enough", and this point varies on a consumer-by-consumer basis.

Many people want the higher quality achieved by purchasing multiple discrete components and assembling them into a system. Many others look at the integrated "all-in-one" and say "That's good enough for me."

yeah, I get it.

[macadamia_harold]

The centerpiece was the AMD LIVE! Home Cinema, an all-in-one device that combines a set-top cable box, stereo receiver, DVD player, digital video recorder, and a PC.

This device is to computing what the spork is to silverware.

A tad overpriced?

[Simonetta]

...an all-in-one device that combines a set-top cable box, stereo receiver, DVD player, digital video recorder and PC.

    Let's see, at Fry's a cable box is about $50, on Craig's List a stereo is about $30, at Best Buy a DVD player is about $39, a digital camcorder is about $250, and a PC on the web at PriceWatch is about $400.

    So AMD is selling the whole package at about $3000? Jeez, such a deal. What does AMD stand for anyway? Advanced Money Disease?

    You Know that is going nowhere. They didn't even mention what amazing new DRM that they'll be throwing in for free!

Re:A tad overpriced?

[Waffle Iron]

it starts at $1000, which given it's also a decently powerful modern computer

However, I doubt that most people would actually use it as a computer. A couple of years ago I put together a MythTV box, and I had the idea that as a bonus it would be handy to have a computer system in my living room. It turns out that even though it's a perfectly fine computer, I rarely if ever use it as anything other than a PVR. Even though it's directly hooked to an HDTV monitor with an HDMI cable, the resolution still isn't very good for reading text. Somehow it's a lot worse at showing high-contrast details than the equivalent pixel-count computer monitor would be; TV electronics just don't seem to be designed with text in mind.

Sitting way back on the couch makes matters worse, and using a wireless keyboard on my lap is incredibly clumsy and frustrating. Just browsing the web feels klunky, and doing any kind of serious work is out of the question. Even a lot of PC games seem to be written assuming that you're sitting upright in a chair with both a mouse and a full 104-key keyboard on a stable surface in front of you. It seems to me that investing in a high-end system for the living room would be a waste of money for most people.

Re:A tad overpriced?

[jimstapleton]

Hey! Just because it violates thermodynamics by producing more energy in heat than it takes in via electricity...

Two Problems for Convergence Still

[chia_monkey]

Everyone continues to talk about the digital convergence, yet we're still seeing two big problems. The first, which is evident here...is price. We're not going to see widespread adoption of new media hardware (and software) with pricepoints like this. Only the rich (and geeky) will shell out that kind of dough for something so cutting edge right now. Second, we're still in early-adopter stage for many of these devices and the average consumer still isn't "trained" to use these devices. Remember when Tivo came out? It was mostly the technically savvy people that bought it. This device still resembles a computer too much to be adopted and placed in the living room of the common household. Some day though...

Re:Two Problems for Convergence Still

[garcia]

This device still resembles a computer too much to be adopted and placed in the living room of the common household. Some day though...

I don't know what TiVo you're talking about but both my standalone TiVo and my DirecTiVo look pretty much like my DVD players.

The reason that TiVo has a low adoption rate is the fact that it costs $14/month to use it (standalone) and most people can't see the point of paying $14 to disrupt their lives being disrupted by TV show programming times. It has nothing to do w/how it looks.

! is the "Extreme" of punctuation

[straponego]

Have you ever noticed that any product with "!" in the name... well, there's no delicate way to put this... sucks?

Re:! is the "Extreme" of punctuation

[Anonymous Coward]

Look, for $1000, a "home entertainment machine" that sucks is probably going to be a big seller, but for $3000, this thing better swallow.

(Hmmmm...probably should post AC on this)

Faster Processor for Streaming File Server?

[stu42j]

"They can't stream content if you want video. The connection isn't the problem, the problem is NAS isn't fast enough to get content on the wire," he said. With a faster processor in its Media Server, data can now be streamed off a server, either wireless or wired.

WTF? I stream videos off my 400mhz K6 fileserver and have never had problems with CPU load. Are NAS devices seriously that slow?

amdlive.com

[stress_weenie]

here is the official (English language version) website for the subject product. http://www2.amdlive.com/us-en/ AMDLive appears to be simply a media software suite available on computers with AMD processors.

Re:Speechless

[God'sDuck]

I think I'll wait until after Microsoft sues the pants off of AMD for using "Live!" for the name of an online service combiner.

Re:Speechless

[thebdj]

It won't happen for a few reasons. 1) Microsoft doesn't hold a trademark on "Live!", sort of makes it hard to sue for that, 2) The trademark they have is for "XBox Live", 3) The people with the closes trademark ("Live!") is actually Creative Labs.

Re:Speechless

[brusk]

Sir or madam,

I find your remark barely humorous, not rising to the level of "droll."

Spend the money on hard drives

[symbolset]

And then rip and transcode the DVD's too. Tease your friends about the lameness of their set top box.

That would be fun. Any of the content you own, without getting up from the sofa, and the Internet too.

Re:Speechless

[MojoStan]

Also, one of the requirements of AMD LIVE! is Windows Media Center Edition, so it's obvious AMD created this spec in cooperation/partnership with Microsoft.

I'm pretty sure the GP was joking, though, about MS suing AMD for using the word "Live."

It's a question of UIs

[gatesvp]

So basically, AMD came out with Live! as a marketing tool (a la VIIV) and now they have actual integrated devices. That's fine, this is nothing new. But all TFA talks about is the hardware and hardware is not the issue, UI is the issue.

If you're selling an integrated box, it needs to be truly integrated. You need a bundled remote, a well-designed 15-foot UI, a bundled wireless keyboard and mouse. You need the system to be pre-configured to support a "media output" (TV) and a small monitor if the user has one.

Of course, TFA makes no mention of any of this stuff. I think that Mac and its Mini are best positioned to actually make this market, but their stuff is still very first gen, a 5-button remote won't cut it. So if AMD wants this market, they need to do much more than just a specially-designed rig.

For this HTPC concept to really work, we need a much better set of integrated tools, but we're legally limited in those respects. I want to do more than just "play" the DVD, I want an option to "rip" the DVD and store it. But you can't bundle that right now (legal issues). I want to play music, rip music, download music and podcasts and connect to subscription services all in one. But this stuff is still independent from the services that play movies.

And for the second generation, I want to hook up a second PC in the basement and have it talk to the first PC upstairs. And then I want these guys to share a media library. I want multiple output option so that I can stream music to different rooms via the same remote. But this is still in the dreamer and prototype stage.

MS is trying to do this (Media Centre, Media Player, XBox 360), but it's not really there and this article does nothing to elucidate how AMD is taking this any further.

How is this something new?

[felonious]

This is nothing new and it seems to be all hype. If you have digital cable, in my area, you get a free cable box w/PVR built in. I have multiple DVD players, HD-DVD at that, 7.1 SS Home theater setup, an a HTPC(not store bought).

The biggest issue I have with these premade, pieces of shit, is they are way over-priced.
You could build much better, with multiple form factors, depending on preference, much cheaper.
Most of the hardware that goes into these things is generic crap.
Cheap hardware+SFF=Profit!!
The $1000 version is probably Celeron based with minimal RAM. It probably lacks what's needed period and is only listed so they can say they have a cheaper model. It's just like the cheaper versions of the 360/PS3 which nobody wants.

For my next HTPC I've bought a mac mini, which I'm going to dual boot in XP. Parallel looks ok but I'm told it's not that great. Mojopac shows a lot of promise, but I have to learn more about it. Anyway, running XP on a mac mini gives me great SFF, but lacks some things. I can make it all work depending on how much I will use said function. They make external drives that match the mini so storage won't be an issue and the SFF can't be beat. This will be my first mac, but it's only for the SFF not the OS, as I'll be running XP to get the HTPC stuff going.

For those wanting to build there own you can do so with top notch components for way under $1500.
When I was looking at doing this I built multiple versions on Newegg. Below I've listed specs off of memory...
Shuttle XPC case/mobo/ps(need to upgrade) $169 after 20 rebate
AMD64 4200X2 - $169
1GB Corsair XMS DDR2@800mhz - $130
SATA 320GB HD - $95
Win MCE 2k5 - $109
Haupage dual TV tuner (PCI) $130ish
GeForce 7950 gt or gs (can't remember) $189
DVD Drive $30
That's the bulk of it and it's $1021

$3k can kiss my ass and so can $2k, it's a rip and generic hardware.
$1021 plus an hour or so piecing it together=priceless!

Re:How is this something new?

[evilviper]

The $1000 version is probably Celeron based with minimal RAM.

AMD doesn't sell a lot of Celerons... Mainly because Intel makes them.

AMD LIVE! brand

[Sodki]

Yeah, I have one of those old AMD cards. It was called Sound Blaster Live!.