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Some 'Next-Gen' DVDs May Not Work With Vista
schnikies79 wrote to mention an article on the Times Online site, where they report that a 'substantial number' of Vista PCs will be unable to play HD-DVDs or Blu-ray discs, as a result of DRM requirements made by the operating system. From the article: "Dave Marsh, the lead program manager for video at Microsoft, said that if the PC used a digital connection to link with the monitor or television, then it would require the highest level of content protection, known as HDCP, to play the discs. If it did not have such protection, Vista would shut down the signal, he said."
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That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
DVD Jon to the white courtesy phone, please.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
For anyone who's been following the recent debates about Vista, this is already old news. But now the mainstream seems to be picking up on it.
What the article doesn't mention is that, probably precisely for this reason, there seems to be an agreement between Sony and Microsoft that HDCP protection won't actually be required by Blu-Ray discs until at least 2010, maybe even 2012. Remember, it's the disc that actually needs to require it, the operating system only provides this as an option.
That doesn't make the system anymore pleasing though. I wonder how far Microsoft will actually get with it. Customers do seem to get upset with this, and it wouldn't be the first time Microsoft has had to make "concessions" because of public criticism.
Peter Gutmann's paper on Vista's content protection is really recommended reading, even if it's a bit polemic. And nothing beats Microsoft's own document, written by the same guy that was interviewed for Times Online.
Yikes! I'll give it about a week for someone to crack it, but in the mean time, I'd like to know if this also restricts divx encoded avi's and/or games outputted to the tv. I love watching my downloaded copies of Sponge Bob and playing Hello Kitty Island Adventure on the big screen!
"Dave Marsh, the lead program manager for video at Microsoft, said that if the PC used a digital connection to link with the monitor or television, then it would require the highest level of content protection, known as HDCP, to play the discs. If it did not have such protection, Vista would shut down the signal, he said. "
The next-gen DVD's will work with Vista, but you need to have HDCP compatible hardware if the HD DVD has the HDCP flag.
Plus, AFAIK, there are 0 HD DVD's that have this flag enabled. Rumored it will not be activated on any disc before 2010, if at all.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine DRM stomping on a human face -- forever.
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No Next Gen? What will I do without being able to watch Picard and crew?!?
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Some 'Next-Gen' DVDs May Not Work With Vista
EMI Considers Abandoning DRM on CDs
No Ceasefire in DVD Format Battle
Today is a good day for DRM to die...
Mind-boggling.
I have to admit that even though Peter Gutmann is a respected computer security expert while I know virtually nothing about Vista, I was inclined to think his analysis just had to be wrong. He had to be misunderstanding something, or positing a hypothetical situation that would never arise with real-world commercial gear, or something like that. Microsoft simply couldn't be that stupid.
Now it turns out that he's right, and that presumably-unintended but not-unforeseeable consequences of Vista's DRM scheme will prevent it from being used in the one way you'd think Microsoft would most want it to be used. It is precisely the enthusiastic with money to devote to their video hobby who are likely to be the early adopters of PCs as home video platforms.
Microsoft is coming perilously close to providing the platform that secures protected perfectly content by preventing _anyone_ from viewing it.
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
Could someone please elaborate for me a Lunix/Unix/OSX system which we can get currently which would play an HD-DVD disc with the HDCP flag up without requiring HDCP compliant DRM in place within the OS?
It seems MS is being bashed for following the requirements being set forth by the media producers. Whereas a number of MS practices may be less than honorable, in this case from what I see they are simply holding to the requirements of the format standard.
All in all I think the media companies like Sony have been given enough DRM rope and are within a year or two of effectively fashioning themselves a noose from it, but that's just MHO on the topic.
I'm a fiscal conservative, it's a pity we don't have a political party anymore
Seriously, does anyone actually take the computer/DVD player output (s-video or whatever) and capture it with something else? I thought that went out along with dubbing VHS's as soon as we could get DVD drives for PCs. I realize that this is just trying to close the analog hole, but NOBODY copies DVDs this way, why do they think people will do that with high def DVDs?
The future of media cracking isn't signal capture, its firmware hacking DVD drives (if that much effort will even be required).
Microsoft's representative could easily have chosen to say "In the future, by the year 2010, HD DVD and Blu-ray disks will certainly require such protection."
What he DID say according to TFA was "At the moment HD DVD and Blu-ray Discs certainly require such protection."
I don't know why he would be misinformed, or why, given the importance of this issue to Microsoft, he would be less than careful about what he said.
Most likely, current disks really don't play, because of some complexity in the interaction between Vista's DRM software and hardware that results in an illogical and unintended consequence.
If current disks will play, why on earth wouldn't he have taken great pains to say so and to stress the point.
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
This is slashdot, and still we aren't really sure how HDCP works. I fear the worst for Joe Blow consumer.
"Flee at once, all is discovered."
New 1080p HD TV: $2,500
Vista OS Upgrade: $150
Card and cable for streaming HD A/V to TV: $180
Internal Blueray Drive: $900
Blueray movie: $40
Not being able to view legally purchased media on legally purchased hardware because of arbitrary content restrictions: $3770 apparently.
All prices approximate but realistic. Thanks Hollywood and Microsoft, obviously the consumer is king!
-- I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist. It's not my fault that life sucks so much. --
This is one of a long list of reasons that I won't be upgrading to Vista or HD-DVD/BluRay in the forseeable future. The sad thing for all of the companies involved is that I usually am an early adopter of technology.
I was one of the first people I knew to own a Tivo, DVD-player and an HD set (okay, I didn't own the set but I pressured my dad into buying one and he was really happy with it). I bought a copy of XP pretty much as soon as it was available. Last count, I owned nearly 500 DVDs.
And that's about as far as my relationship with these companies go. I--a legitimate, paying customer--am unwilling to be inconvenienced one single second, or pay a single extra dollar, to be treated like a criminal. I simply won't do it. So I'll continue buying DVDs until they stop manufacturing them, hopefully by which point this whole fiasco will have blown over.
I currently have no clever signature witicism to add here.
Ok..let me spell out my point AC since you are going to focus on a link...
At some point, Linux will be able to play these discs because the DRM will be cracked. When that day comes, I will not have the restrictions at the OS level that you will. Until that day comes, I won't be purchasing either of these restrictive technologies. Like I said, enjoy your Vista.
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- Popular Mechanics, 1949
"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers."
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"Anyways, there is no way to play HD-DVD or Blu-Ray disks in Linux." Ever. =P
-AC Slashdot, 01/09/07
READ THE GODDAMN SPECIFICATION BEFORE YOU SPOUT OUT BOLLOCKS!
Link 2.4.1.1 DVI (Digital) DVI is a high-speed, high-quality, digital pixel interface, developed by the PC industry. It is used in place of analog VGA to connect to PC monitors. It can provide very high resolutions by paralleling separate channels. Intel's HDCP protection is available for DVI, but is not always implemented by hardware manufacturers. HDCP is approved by the content industry, so DVI with HDCP is a great output solution for protected content. In contrast, DVI without HDCP is definitely not liked by content owners, because it provides a pristine digital interface that can be captured cleanly. When playing premium content such as HD-DVD and Blu-Ray DVD, PVP-OPM will be required to turn off or constrict the quality of unprotected DVI. As a result, a regular DVI monitor will either get slightly fuzzy or go black, with a polite message explaining that it doesn't meet security requirements. So, to correct:
- HD will output flawlessly on any output when HDCP is not requested by the content producer
- If HDCP is requested, the content can either be degraded to standard definition or blocked completely
- It will be degraded, not blocked. Content providers are greedy but not stupid
That times article is retarded, and makes it sound as though you can't watch HD on a digital monitor at all but "huuuuuuuurrrr it'll be just fine on analog." To reiterate, content providers might be greedy but they're not stupid. Given the option of degrading or blocking, they will go for degrading so that you can be enticed to think how much better it would be in HD if you go buy their fancy kit, and also to reduce all the complaints of "my disc is broken!"Seriously, seeing as half the people responding above don't know what they're talking about,how is the average consumer supposed to know that their disc isn't playing because they need a better TV?
The amount of FUD surrounding this is really pissing me off, especially when supposedly reputable sources like the times end up shitting out absolute nonsense.