Sony, Nintendo, id Lauded With Emmys

Nintendo, Sony, and id Software have all been given Emmy awards for technology-related contributions to gaming and entertainment. Nintendo's Wiimote, obviously, garnered an Emmy for Peripheral Development and Technoogical Impact of Video Game Controllers, while id collectively received two awards. John Carmack was given The Pioneering Development Work in 3D Game Engines award, and id as a whole received an accolade for Quake's rendering technology. As reader NexusTw1n points out, though, there was something odd about Sony's award. "On Monday, Sony claimed their revolutionary SIXAXIS controller had been honoured with an Emmy , leaving many wondering why the Wiimote had been ignored. Yesterday, that press release was clarified, with a statement making it clear the award was actually for the PS2 Dual Shock controller, rather than the new PS3 model."

Comments

SIXAXIS disqualification

[UbuntuDupe]

Private detectives unearthed that the SIXAXIS only has three axes. (-1, Overdone)

Re:SIXAXIS disqualification

[odie_q]

Actually, it detects rotation and translation along three axes, and also has two dual-axis thumb levers. So that's seven axes, and ten degrees of freedom.

Re:SIXAXIS disqualification

[Anonymous Coward]

how many degrees of seperation?

Stop Digging

[tfinniga]

Sony's PR lately has been the worst PR I've ever seen.

Although some might say that's because I haven't been watching Sony's PR long enough.

Re:Stop Digging

[Anonymous Coward]

I could be wrong, but with how much bad news has been comming out for Sony recently I suspect that they're simply grasping at whatever they can to get some "good news" out there for the PS3.

Re:Stop Digging

[Thansal]

yah, but they fugged it again is the point.

They win an award for a controller that many people love (the dual shock) and then promptly claim that it was for the sixaxis (something many people are disapointed with), only to be shot down, and thus look like idiots (again).

Re:Stop Digging

[Pojut]

This will likely be modded offtopic, but whatever...the database is down at work and I'm bored.

What is the fascination with the Dual Shock? I mean, is it the analog aspect....what is it? It's an OK controller, but I would hardly call it the best ever. For it's time, ok fine...but still, the 360's controller is awesome, hell even the controller S was awesome...the dreamcast had a good controller too (I KNOW I am in the minority in thinking that, but whatever)

What made the dual shock so appealing to people though? I always found it to be a bit uncomfortable...

Re:Stop Digging

[Chris Burke]

What made the dual shock so appealing to people though? I always found it to be a bit uncomfortable...

Dual analogs, as far as I can guess. That was the main thing it brought to the table, oh and maybe having rumble built in rather than an add-on. The N64 controller made analog control sticks the new standard in consoles, so Sony decided to include not one but two. The reason I've always found it uncomfortable is because since Sony wasn't certain that analog was going to take over -- and not to mess up existing games which used the D-pad -- they put the left analog stick down and to the right so it requires flexing the thumb just to touch the stick. Okay, that was fine for the PS1, but the bastards didn't move it for the PS2 or PS3, while every other controller swapped the dual shock's d-pad/left analog position so that the control you used 99% of the time -- the analog -- was in the most comfortable, natural position.

It's not the worst controller ever, and dual analog sticks was a good improvement, but I agree it isn't that spectacular.

Re:Stop Digging

[TwistedSpring]

It was pretty comfortable, and in its day it was the best because it did the job perfectly, had pressure sensitive buttons, vibration, 2 clickable sticks and didn't pit form against function. Simply, it was a very well designed piece of kit with a good weight to it. I think it probably had some influence on the design of controllers that came out afterwards.

Obviously, some will disagree and say it was a huge pain in the ass to use, but as far as I can see they're in the minority. It may well have been superseded by the 360's controller, but it deserves a belated award for its influence. That is, unless this award is just one big prank on Sony.

Re:Stop Digging

[TwistedSpring]

Hang on, they gave the award to the DualShock not the DualShock II. Whatever, most of what I said still stands except for the pressure sensitive buttons.

Re:Stop Digging

[Total_Wimp]

Just curious, have you used the xbox controller and do you consider it a big improvement? I've only ever used it at kiosks in stores, and though it didn't feel bad, it also didn't feel any better to me.

I'm not stuck on symmetry as a general concept, but when playing shooters it seems like a natural arrangement. If I wanted one of them up high, it would just seem natural to put the other up high as well on. Do you know of any controllers that do this, and if so, what did you think of them?

TW

Re:Stop Digging

[Chris Burke]

Just curious, have you used the xbox controller and do you consider it a big improvement? I've only ever used it at kiosks in stores, and though it didn't feel bad, it also didn't feel any better to me.

The original Xbox controller was the worst I've ever used, because it was physically impossible for me to reach the left analog properly, I could only push it from the side up and to the right. Yes, I have very small hands, and yes the xbox controller was too damn big.

The S version though is a very nice controller, and I found it to be very comfortable.

I'm not stuck on symmetry as a general concept, but when playing shooters it seems like a natural arrangement. If I wanted one of them up high, it would just seem natural to put the other up high as well on. Do you know of any controllers that do this, and if so, what did you think of them?

Nope, never used one. Most controllers are based on the concept of making whatever you use the most be the most natural thing to touch. For most games that's the control stick for the left, and the face buttons with the right, so both are in the normal "straight thumb" position. Shooters are an exception because you are constantly using the right analog to use the more PC-like movement/aiming setup, and the trigger buttons are the main buttons you use. A controller designed for console FPS that had both sticks in the raised position would probably work very well. Dual shock is the opposite -- it just makes both your hands have to hold an awkward position.

Re:Stop Digging

[mattxmayhem]

no, they gave it to the dual shock for the playstation 2, which was the dual shock 2

Re:Stop Digging

[LiquidAvatar]

Most controllers are based on the concept of making whatever you use the most be the most natural thing to touch.

Not to sound like a nintendo fanboy, but the GameCube controller was excellent in this regard. I found it very easy to access the most commonly used buttons - typically the Analogue stick and the big green "A" button for actions. The "X" and "Y" buttons were easy enough to access, as were the shoulder buttons, but they made it very easy to reach most of the important buttons and to know which one you were pressing, just based on button shape and touch.

The C nob (doesn't even deserve to be called a C Stick), on the other hand, was a royal pain to use.

Re:Stop Digging

[Firehawke]

I've never understood all the people saying the PS2 controller is "unnatural" but claiming the X-Box Type S controller is comfortable.

The Type S is uncomfortable for me because it's way too thick, and I absolutely loathe the face buttons. It also has a godawful d-pad-- playing an oldschool fighting game like Street Fighter 2 is an exercise in misery. The DualShock only requires I shift my thumb a bit to the right to use the analog, and all of the buttons are flat, making them a lot more comfortable (especially when using the pressure sensitivity). I'd prefer a centerpiece to the d-pad on the DS, but I've gotten used to not keeping my finger towards the center of the pad like I used to with the SNES.

Not too fond of the 360 controller, but I WILL grant that the X-Box controllers don't cause as much pain as the Dreamcast or N64's analog sticks

Re:Stop Digging

[RandtheMan]

First, I actually picked up the PS3 yesterday, so I'd like to admit that I have three to four hours of use. To stay on topic, I will speak on the remote first and my very first impression was "where's the beef". It felt and looked like a scaled down (less) version of the ps2 dual shock controller. Also, connecting the wireless controller for it to charge for 2 to 3 hours wasn't to welcoming either. Now to go a little off topic, I am really worried about Sony and my #$@ $600 investment as I didn't even buy a ps3 game, because there wasn't anyone on the shelf that looked graphically superior to the ps2 games that I currently have. The PS3 basically came in an empty box, with a lot of sold seperately info, not even a demo dvd or cd to tout blue ray or present or upcoming games. Lasty, I think you message title stop digging should be the daily slogan at Sony and this coming from someone who loved their stuff in the past. All I can say is that I'm shocked and stunned at what I got from Sony after three years of hype, delays, anticipation, etc....

Re:Stop Digging

[twistedsymphony]

The "DualShock" was released in 1996 for the original Playstation. The "DualShock 2" was released in 1999 for the Playstation2, they are two different controllers and they have different names. If the text on the envelope was "DualShock" and not "DualShock 2" the award was given for the Playstation1 version of the controller.

Don't believe me? Look for yourself.

Re:Stop Digging

[mattxmayhem]

They specified that it was for the playstation 2 version.

Sony Award

[TwistedSpring]

"Sony, we will be honouring your legendary controller technology with an Emmy." "AWESOME we cannot believe we won over Nintendo with our hasty stab at copying their functionality. Release lots of embarrassing press releases patting ourselves on the back and saying how fantastic we are for our revolutionary SIXAXIS controller!!" "Haha, only kidding. It's for the DualShock, suckers" How much of a smack in the face is that? Quality work Emmy dudes.

Re:Sony Award

[Leviance]

Ashton Kutcher punked Ken Kutaragi

Re:Sony Award

[The Ultimate Fartkno]

Watashi no namae wa Ashuton Kuuchya... watashi wa "awesome" desu!!

Quake, as in the original Quake?

[Chris Burke]

While it would be rather late to give an award, I do think Quake would be the most deserving of an award for graphics achievment certainly since and maybe before. Fully 3D environments with arbitrary geometry -- fairly complex geometry at that -- on hardware that had no business being able to render such a thing was quite an achievement. Throw on the lightmaps and you've got something even more impressive. Nothing looked like Quake at the time, and everything since is more detailed geometry, higher detailed textures, and better lighting/texture shader effects. Yay Quake! Of course the game itself wasn't that great, setting the precedent for all future iD games. :)

I particularly liked how they got good performance out of the game by requiring hours and hours of pre-processing on the maps to create visibility trees. There were even servers you could submit your maps to that would then run vis on them so hobbyists could save some time.

Re:Quake, as in the original Quake?

[Cheesey]

Quake certainly was technically impressive, but I couldn't help being disappointed by it at the time. It just wasn't as good as Doom. Technically, of course, it was better, but it wasn't as much fun. In particular, single player completely sucked, and the level artwork was a miserable collection of dull greys. I don't think I ever finished every level - I just lost interest in it.

None of this was Carmack's fault, of course. He can only be blamed for Quake C :).

Re:Quake, as in the original Quake?

[jackbird]

16 Player deathmatch over TCP/IP, with players able to join and leave at any time, vs. 4 player deathmatch over LAN (or incredibly painful middleware like KALI) everyone has to join at the same time. Add in threewave CTF, Quakeworld, and Team Fortress for giggles, too (threewave didnt' even require the clients to download a mod).

Quake wasn't just about the graphics, it was about the multiplayer gameplay. I agree that the single-player version felt like a tech demo, but then again, so has every id game since.

Re:Quake, as in the original Quake?

[Chris Burke]

Quake certainly was technically impressive, but I couldn't help being disappointed by it at the time. It just wasn't as good as Doom.

Yeah, Doom was the last iD game that was both an amazing engine and an amazing game. Since then, the "fun" has come from either licencees of the engine or modders. Speaking of...

None of this was Carmack's fault, of course. He can only be blamed for Quake C :).

Granted I was talking about graphical achievment since that seems to be what the award is for, but no paen to Quake is complete without singing the praises of Quake C! Oh, the sweet wonder of modifying not just the occasional feature but the very game logic using a C-like language, letting you turn Quake into anything from a class-based capture-the-flag game to an action-RPG (link may be broken). From a more universal perspective Quake C was crap, but it was also an original idea that basically created the huge and vibrant "mod" community that we know today. Though I will say that I've never forgiven Carmack for not including support for -arrays-, even statically sized ones. I even dug into the quake c compiler to discover that the bytecode quake c was compiled into didn't support any kind of pointer arithmetic. So annoying, but must... code... around... limitations...

Re:Quake, as in the original Quake?

[tfinniga]

I would also like to second the praise and blame towards QuakeC.
I think the original Quake was the most modded game ever. I personally made three mods for it, which was 3 more than I made for anything else. Part of that was the absolute ease with which you could create mods. All of the dev tools came with the source code. QuakeC is a toy language, designed only for Quake. That is the strength and weakness.

Need an easy way to do transformations, dot products and cross products? Want to do collision checking and physics? QuakeC is it.

String processing? Arrays? Basically, any data structure other than a single struct and linked lists? Sorry.

Re:Quake, as in the original Quake?

[lmnfrs]

Only the original Threewave versions did not require downloading. The grappling hook and actual flags (instead of keys) were added and new maps were created, but all the models were relatively small. Quakeworld enabled the automatic downloading of missing files when connecting to a server requiring files the client didn't have, so the process was still very simple and easy.
It's also worth noting that a major aspect of Quake's achievement is how it shaped gaming. Not only did Quake spawn freeware mods with QuakeC and new games via the licensing of the engine, it also helped form or influence successful development houses and had some hand in the making of games such as Tribes, Half-Life, Painkiller, and others.
If it's not obvious, I am a Quake fanboy. But because of the scale on which Quake affected gamers and developers, and in some cases combined the two, I can say objectively that if it weren't for Quake, gaming (not just FPS gaming) would not be the same as it is today.

Wiimote? Maybe not yet...

[Leviance]

joystiq is saying the Wiimote didn't win either, but that the D-pad was the lauded innovation? What about the thumb-stick?

http://www.joystiq.com/2007/01/09/oops-sony-declar es-sixaxis-emmy-emmys-say-uh-uh/

Scientific progress goes *boink!*

How has their ego bubble not burst yet?

[Zeek40]

FTFA:

"The overwhelming consumer demand and critical acclaim for PS3 is testament of the platform's strength and the industry's desire for a true next-generation entertainment system,"

Is that why there are PS3's gathering dust at almost every shop within 50 miles of my house and i still cant get my hands on a damn Wii?

Re:How has their ego bubble not burst yet?

[pembo13]

Yes that's why.

Emmy for Sony

[Anonymous Coward]

For being liars, false advertisers and still being able to gather the worst assclown fanboys around them.

I know one who got really angry when I explained him what an axis is and that SIXAXIS is just false advertising.

He got really angry at me(!)

I don't know what to do with him... should I just laugh at him or is this hilarious display of product loyalty a early sign for mental illness?

Re:Emmy for Sony

[jizziknight]

Perhaps you can explain it to this guy. I'm sure we'd all like to laugh at the ensuing argument.

Re:Emmy for Sony

[Chris Burke]

I know one who got really angry when I explained him what an axis is and that SIXAXIS is just false advertising.

Oh come on, I hate sony as much as the next guy but that's just pedantry. Take it to mean "six degrees of freedom of movement" and it's perfectly valid. I have a flightstick with three degrees of freedom -- two translational and one rotation -- even though the rotational axis is geometrically just translation in the other two axes. Now in this case the axes are distinct physically, the rotation axis is a separate mechanism from the other two, while SIXAXIS probably uses the same accelerometers for detecting rotation and translation, but that's picking nits.

Re:Wiimote? Maybe not yet...

[Purity Of Essence]

I was going to post that "correction", if it is indeed factual. I can't seem to find any decent coverage. And apparently the thumb-stick isn't relevant until you put two on the same controller. But enough guessing, where is the REAL information about why Nintendo and Sony are being recognized. All I can find are official summaries, and bloggers with active imaginations. Who's got the straight poop?

Re:Wiimote? Maybe not yet...

[drinkypoo]

joystiq is saying the Wiimote didn't win either, but that the D-pad was the lauded innovation? What about the thumb-stick?

We'll see how the Wiimote really turns out, but the D-pad changed the world. Thumbsticks STILL piss me and many other people off as they really are VERY difficult to get precise movement out of (especially as your hands get larger and the controller becomes less ergonomic) as compared to an actual joystick.

On the other hand, Nintendo made the first and second D-pads, and they're both pretty choice (but the second one, made for the NES as opposed to the famicom, is the best one ever made IMO, with zero exceptions.)

So what _are_ the six axes?

[Draconix]

My best guess...

1)x
2)y
3)z
4)t (time)
5)? (???)
6)p (profit)

Re:So what _are_ the six axes?

[Abcd1234]

Not sure if this is a troll, but it's: X, Y, Z, Pitch, Roll, Yaw.

Re:So what _are_ the six axes?

[everphilski]

While pitch, roll, and yaw are not axes but rather rotations about axes, a set of arbitrary axes can be set up to define these, not coincident with the X, Y, Z axes. These two sets of axes can be related by a 9x9 matrix. This is useful in engineering, relating frames (for example, between an aircraft and the ground, or the aircraft and a turboprop's rotor)

Re:So what _are_ the six axes?

[Blue Mushroom]

Presumably the six degrees of freedom required for arbitrary position and orientation in space. You use three numbers to specify your position in space along the x, y, and z coordinate axes. Then you use three numbers to specify how much you have rotated around each of the axes. You can think of all six of these numbers as positions on six axes in six dimensional space. Why would you want to do that? So that you can have a cool palindromic name for your controller like SIXAXIS.

Re:So what _are_ the six axes?

[Abcd1234]

It is worth nothing, though, that even outside of engineering, it's not at all without precent to refer to such a controller as a six-axis system. For example, the NASA SimLabs VMS package is described as "the only large six-axis motion system in the world". And that was just my first quick Googling attempt.

Point being, you can accuse Sony of a lot of things, but their controller is accurately named (even if it is a cheap knock-off of the Wiimote).

Re:So what _are_ the six axes?

[Anonymous Coward]

The six axes are as follows
analog one x&y
analog two x&y
tilt x&y
that gives you 3 inputs X 2 axis each = sixaxis

I'm a bit confused

[EvilGoodGuy]

Is nintendo the winner for the Wiimote, or is Sony the winner for the mini-wiimote?

Actually...

[Pojut]

I've always been rather partial of the SNES controller. More specifically, the SN PRO PAD (the original was a little too small for my hands) Still, the layout, the feel, everything...it was a FANTASTIC controller, and perfect for fighting games. Also, the old NES arcade stick (it's name eludes me at the moment) was quite cool, with the big ol' red buttons and the knob that unscrewed

Re:Actually...

[mrsoichirod]

It was called the NES Advantage and it was for cheaters. God, I loved that thing and its delicate little turbo button.

Re:Actually...

[Pojut]

a rather common joke in our house was to loosen the ball all the way to the top, so the next person that grabbed it would have the ball go flying off with some hairlip sibling chasing after it. Or, if we were feeling particularly mean, we would take the ball off and just leave a cold, threaded stick.

ahhhh, those were the days...

Re:Actually...

[Chris Burke]

It was called the NES Advantage and it was for cheaters. God, I loved that thing and its delicate little turbo button.

Yeah, it was very much for cheating. It even had knobs that allowed you to change the fire rate of the turbo, so games that had optimal patterns (like Track and Field) could be tuned for maximum cheating.

Re:Actually...

[Mark J Tilford]

I thought the ASCIIpad for SNES was excellent: I could independently set (normal, turbo, auto) on (A, B, X, Y, L, R). All the playstation and later controllers I saw had turbo for each button linked.

Just another Sony misrepresentation.

[colinbg]

Its as if they make stuff up now. how many ways can Sony lie? I will not buy Sony products and after this latest little lie, it just helps justify my position.

Technoogical?

[sherpajohn]

What does Technoogical Impact of Video Game Controllers mean?

Re:Technoogical?

[Chris Burke]

What does Technoogical Impact of Video Game Controllers mean?

It means what happens when your Wii remote hits your 40" plasma screen. :)

No mention of Microsoft's Emmy?

[MSFanBoi2]

Yep, they got one too, but I guess since it's Slashdot, people failed to mention it.

Microsoft won an Emmy for Xbox Live.

Re:No mention of Microsoft's Emmy?

[MSFanBoi2]

I think they may have actually won another for DirectX.

Re:Wiimote? Maybe not yet...

[Firehawke]

Really? I'm going to say I was a lot happier with the SNES controller in general. It's a slight refinement of the basic NES d-pad, but the face buttons and ergonomics are vastly improved. The original NES controller qualifies as one of the LEAST ergonomic controllers ever created. I'd say up there with the Jaguar's abomination.

Emmy rebuttal... and Ninty won for D-pad!

[thelancer]

I wrote the original investigation article that followed up with Emmy reps to find out the real story, after seeing the Sony press release claiming SIXAXIS had won.

You can see it here, which carries the quotes from NATAS which led to Sony withdrawing the original release:

http://www.hydrapinion.com/index.php/create/2007/0 1/09/

Just wanted to clarify that Nintendo won for the D-pad, Zonk, not the Wiimote, just as Sony won for DUALSHOCK and not SIXAXIS. Of course, Nintendo never claimed otherwise... nor did they make any statements about winning the award...

Re:Wiimote? Maybe not yet...

[drinkypoo]

I like everything about the SNES controller better except the D-Pad. I still believe the NES D-Pad is the finest ever conceived. I know that even having an opinion on this subject reveals me as one of the biggest nerds the world has ever known but hell, what can you do :D In fact the only thing wrong with the SNES controller (IMO) is that it could be thicker to accomodate people with larger hands. But I can live with it.