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How Can We Convert the US to the Metric System?
thesolo asks: "Despite past efforts of the 1970s and 1980s, the United States remains one of only three countries (others are Liberia and Myanmar) that does not use the metric system. Staying with imperial measurements has only served to handicap American industry and economy. Attempts to get Americans using the Celsius scale, or putting up speed limits in kilometers per hour have been squashed dead. Not only that, but some Americans actually see metrication efforts as an assault on 'our way' of measuring. I personally deal with European scientists on a daily basis, and find our lack of common measurement to be extremely frustrating. Are we so entrenched with imperial units that we cannot get our fellow citizens to simply learn something new? What are those of us who wish to finally see America catch up to the rest of the world supposed to do? Are there any organizations that we may back, or any pro-metric legislators who we can support?"
If you want to use the metric system in your research, then use the metric system. What's stopping you?
Why do you need the government to change the speed limit signs if your problem is interoperating with scientists?
Clear, Dark Skies
How many cubic inches make up a gallon?
:-)
Since he calculation using the metric system is really easy
just like changing currency... Still using Fahrenheit is just plain weird. I just wish the USA wouldn't push that date format of m/d/y on the rest of the world .. now that is confusing (use y-m-d )
What is the reason for this change? As another poster has said, if you want to use the metric system, just use it.
Most, if not all of the problems I deal with (mechanical engineering) have systems and specifications that are in metric units now. Most (nearly all) national standards I deal with are already in metric units. CAD and analysis systems can switch units without problems.
What use is it to change units for the general population? Is there a need to buy apples in Kg? Or gasoline in Liters? Medicine is specified in Mg. Engine displacement is shown in Liters. Should 2x4's be 50x100's?
From a link on the freedom2measure site:
Sexist
The metric system has been almost wholly created and standardized by male scientists and bureaucrats. At the time, during which women were considerably less liberated than today, woman had virtually no say in the creation and, in many countries, the imposition of these units. Perhaps, if they had, the value of the practical units used in those tasks undertaken by woman at the time would have been recognized.
I can understand trying to make a point against the metric system, but this!? Any other real arguments won't be taken serious anymore..
Not to mention that I doubt women had any say in the current system.
home
Start with the schools. It will require quite a bit of initial investment, but it is the only way to introduce a new mindset to the public. You'll need to replace a LOT of textbooks (maths problems will need to be posed in metric terms, same for science books, etc) and all of your measuring devices will need replacing with metric versions (throw out those yard sticks and replace them with metre rules). If the kids grow up learning metric terms, they'll see the benefits of simplicity, easier unit conversion, and so on.
Then comes the tricky part: legislation. The resistance from the lazy public and business will be incredible - it'll be seen as one extra unnecessary expense - but it has to be done. It must be a legal requirement that wherever an amount is shown in Imperial, it must also be shown in metric.
That should be enough to get the ball rolling, but it's a long process, and - as the poster above pointed out - it may not stick right away. The UK has used metric officially for many years now but go into a hardware store and they'll still sell you a length of 2-by-4.
It may take many years to kill off Imperial measurements, but I think those are the two most important steps to affect the change.
I'm an Australian living in the UK, and for sure there are still some Imperial hangovers here in the areas you mention. Australia is fully metric-ised, although you will still find the occasional reference to heights and weights in feet & stones, mainly from the older generation.
And while the UK may still have mile signs on the road and some people (again mainly older people) measure their height and weight using the old system, everything else is metric. It's just "cuter" to say "he's 6ft tall", rather than 180cm.
Honestly, I don't see what all the fuss is about. The metric system is clearly technically superior, and clearly more widely accepted. It takes all of about a week to start thinking in metric units instead of imperial if you put your mind to it... holding out on the imperial system just for the sake of it is just... lazy/stupid, and well-deserving of the ridicule IMO. I mean, every other country managed to make the conversion, so what's the problem...?
Old houses don't go away.
Right, because there are no old houses in Europe. This is why they have successfully converted to metric.
Your argument is flawed.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
There are a number of ways to respond to this question...
1) "I personally deal with European scientists on a daily basis, and find our lack of common measurement to be extremely frustrating."
So? USE THE METRIC SYSTEM, then. *Nobody* is stopping you. I work for a European-HQ'ed paper company, and corporate is constantly dealing in square meters, while our customers are asking for things in thousand-square-feet units. Should I wring my hands and moan piteously about how complicated this is? Or is it perhaps easier just to learn the conversion rate(s) and become skilled at quick mental conversions?
There are hundreds if not thousands of industries in the US that commonly and regularly use Metric system units every day.
2) In a larger view, the difficulty in getting people to switch is symptomatic of our long-BROKEN educational system. We've had a system that accepts the production of stupid adults for a half-century; is it a surprise that much of the American electorate is, well, stupid? For 40 years, 'enlightened' social-promotion educators have insisted that there is no educational canon, no set of knowledge that's necessary to be a functional adult. Every time someone would say "look, maybe it's useful if we insist that all children must know X or must perform at Y level of aptitude before graduating", a chorus of voices (generally from the Left) would claim that was merely being classist, ethnocentrist, racist, or somehow a vague assault on the inherent value of whatever child didn't get it.
Couple that with the capitalist overreach into the educational system (going after the Right now), from corporate sponsors pumping millions of units of sugar-pop and crap-snacks into nutrition starved teens, up to the ability of college athletes to skate through education because of their financial contribution to the school, and you have a recipe for disaster.
We need to return to elementary schools that teach the basics, and REQUIRE a certain level of aptitude before graduation.
We need to have a post-secondary system that doesn't require the first 2 years to be remedial college-prep education.
We need to have colleges insist on a specific canon of educational requirements for all students, and dispense with the boutique specifics that suit some tenure-protected professor's ideological goals.
Then, perhaps, in 20-30 years we can rebuild a working democracy, with an enlightened electorate capable of making intelligent choices.
-Styopa
Why bother? Seriously -- why bother? What real, practical value is there in forcing the general public to use one arbitrary (to them) set of measurements versus another arbitrary set of measurements? What does the public's use of miles, Fahrenheit, pounds, and acres have to do with business or government? Sure, sometimes there are mishaps when using mixed units, but they're rare enough that their widely-published details stick out in your mind because it's so rare. A good engineer realizes that units are arbitrary and can work with whatever measurement system she's given. Besides that, whether my car gets 22 mpg or 7.2 L/100km doesn't have an impact on people in the laboratory or the layout room. The scales, force gauges, and AutoCAD all switch back and forth effortlessly. Businesses already use the metric system when it suits them (it usually does). In fact our American units (they're not imperial units) are officially defined by the NIST in terms of metric units. Our land surveying system west of New England is irrevocably tied to the use of feet and acre systems.
I'm working in Canada now. Despite the fact that their government forced metric units on them, do you realize that virtually everyone (well, immigrants from metric countries notwithstanding) continues to use Imperial units (in this case, they are Imperial units -- 4.4L/gallon, etc) in their daily life? It's 82 outside, not 28. I weigh 190, not 86. I had a fever of 101, not 39.
What's really strange is working in Mexico, where they never officially use US units. Milk is sold in galones (gallons, yup, right on the label). Talking about small measurements is quite often done in pulgadas (inches). They don't use millas (miles) in normal conversation, but they all seem to have a general sense of what they are. Yardas may be well know because of American football, and Fahrenheit makes no sense to them, but they're fairly well versed in libras (pounds).
Me? I like the metric system, and use it where it makes sense to use it. But going through the expense of wholesale conversion to the metric system makes no sense and will cause more problems than it solves. Think of the sheer amount of measurements that would have to change. There's the mundane -- 37" TV's will have to change. But what about construction materials? Plumbing? Lumber? Fasteners? What about highway sytems? Exit signs, mile markers, speed limit signs, maps, documentation? The US survey system, then? Acres, townships, counties, baseline locations, meridian locations, title and deed documents? What about food packaging? Why eliminate US measurements when metric measurements are already there?
Interstate 19 between Tucson and Nogales, Arizona is labelled in km/h for some inexplicable reason. Is there a benefit to anyone there?
--Jim (me)
The Celsius scale is calibrated to the freezing and boiling points of water. This is great for scientific use, but comes at the expense of sensitivity for day-to-day use. It is seldom that anyone wants to know the temperature outside as a fraction of the temperature required to make water boil (though the freezing point is of more use), and temperatures in habitable areas of the earth seldom exceed 50C. That means the upper half of the scale is not being used. Since a Fahrenheit degree is finer-grained than a Celsius degree and the endpoints of the scale more closely match the range of habitable temperatures, it makes more sense to use F outside of science and cooking, IMO.
I'm in agreement on use of all other metrics.
I don't know where you work, but as an American scientist/engineer myself I always use metric in my professional work. Meters, kelvin, kilograms. In school (chemical engineering) we often worked with pounds and gallons since they're common in some industries, but we were thoroughly drilled in how to convert between units.
I honestly don't see the problem with using Imperial units in daily life as long as professionals use metric in their work. In many parts of the country, roads are spaced one mile apart. Converting to metric won't change that. Refrigerators are designed to hold a gallon of milk. Converting to metric would mean either misfitting jugs or odd quantity containers.
Let the public use Imperial units. They happen to be useful for human-scale measurements. Just be sure to teach students that metric is the professional system.
AlpineR
"America needs to start the switch"
Why, exactly? Other than you want us to.
Oh please. I agree with the rest of your post, but you can't argue that imperial vs metric is about diversity vs uniformity. It's quite clearly being argued because of the difficulties in conversion, not some assault on the brave USA, willing to stand alone from the metric crowd of sheep.
What scientists use Imperial units? Food scientists? Woodworking scientists?
Building is actually one of the strongholds of the imperial system - at least in small projects. Most builders who were apprenticed think in imperial for everything except kitchens and bathrooms which are now totally metric. Stud walls have 16" centres. Many things that are now described in metric are actually still imperial in size (15mm and 22mm piping are half and three quarter inch). Carpenters use imperial a great deal, and there is a reason. One of the most common tasks in building is to find the centre of something - this is MUCH easier in imperial. If something is 28 3/4" to successively half it is trivial: 14 3/8, 7 3/16, 3/ 22/32 - only the last of these is remotely challenging. If something is 27.7cm this process is harder - and as this would often be marked as 2770mm which is harder still. Try it in your head. Both imperial and metric have their place, and people arguing for the automatic superiority of the metric system are missing some of the benefits of imperial.
While it is easier, as someone above stated, to multiply and divide by ten, systems designed around the number 12 are more divisible. There is a reason why there will never be a metric clock, and there will never be a 500 degree circle. 360 is divisible by 1,2,3,4,5,6,8,9,10,12,15,16(nearly - 22.5),18, and 20 and on and on. By comparison 1000 - a much larger number, is divisible by 1,2,4,5,8,10,16(nearly - 62.5), and 20. 360 has 14 factors under 20, while 1000 has only 8. There are reasons to use base 12. The pyramids were built in imperial, and there ain't a lot wrong with them. Just my 2 cents.
It doesn't "work", though. Metric/SI was designed to make inter-unit calculation as easy as possible. Imperial measurements don't work - they're crippled when compared to metric. Familiarity is no reason to hold society back.
What a strange country you must live in and you must not have travelled at all.
Alcohol is still sold in standard amounts in bars in metric countries too and that's what you ask for; people buy as much fruit as they need/want not a specific amount as they're sold in both bags of apples (which are neither 1 pound or 1 kilo) or loose so you can buy what you want; people order coke in cans because funnily enough you can't buy it in anything else but cans or bottles. The development of the language had nothing to do with imperial measurements; someone somewhere had to define what a pint/pound/inch actually represents and guess what it was this in the UK.
The snooty arrogance in this thread is astounding.
There is no doubt that if you are designing a system from scratch, the metric system is superior.
There is also no doubt that if you are in science and engineering, you should be using the metric system.
But for every day use? It does not matter one tiny bit. Whatever accurately supports commerce is really all that matters. And the Imperial system works in the US.
Some dirty secrets for you all who think the rest of the world has adopted: a lot of the Commonwealth nations have adopted the metric only in an official capacity. Go to the UK and see how often you see Imperial units.
So let my summarize by saying "Who will think of the rulers!" (And steel mills and pipe fittings and rolling mills and everything I'm ignorant of)
Bullshit. In almost every metric country, type is measured in points. Certainly from my personal experience, Australia, Hong Kong, Thailand, India and the UK, which are all metric in most respects. There are proposed metric units to measure type, but they are not offically part of the SI. And the idea of a font "size" is actually fairly arbitrary and fuzzy. It's generally defined as the smallest line spacing so that the descenders of one line do not collide with the ascenders of the line below. But there are many cases where this rule is violated. Consider it more like women's dress sizes rather than relating to a specific dimension.
Of course, we can thank Adobe for embedding their definition of the point = 1/72" in PostScript (which is slightly larger then the older traditional point.) Page sizes however are often quoted in mm.
However, I suspect you are trolling. If so, well done. I also have to suspect that the site linked in the summary , http://www.freedom2measure.org/ may be a parody.
Could anyone write that stuff seriously?You'll need to replace a LOT of textbooks (maths problems will need to be posed in metric terms, same for science books, etc) and all of your measuring devices will need replacing with metric versions (throw out those yard sticks and replace them with metre rules).
Textbooks in the United States already use metric units, and have now for decades.
If the kids grow up learning metric terms, they'll see the benefits of simplicity, easier unit conversion, and so on.
Everybody in the United States under the age of forty grew up learning metric terms. Virtually nobody in the United States under the age of forty, unless such person has some specific technical reason for doing so, has any interest in using metric terms in day-to-day life.
It must be a legal requirement that wherever an amount is shown in Imperial, it must also be shown in metric.
This is already the case. A can of cola in the U.S. reads "12 fl. oz. (355 mL)". A bag of microwave popcorn states "1.5 oz. (42.5g)". A snack bar reads "1.59 oz (45g)". No consumer product is sold without both Imperial and metric measurements.
Then comes the tricky part: legislation. The resistance from the lazy public and business will be incredible - it'll be seen as one extra unnecessary expense - but it has to be done.
If the public doesn't want it, and business doesn't want it, then who exactly is supposed to benefit?
All employees must wash hands before seeking equitable relief.
Furthermore, there is nothing nice about the sizes of metric units. Nice units are ones that eliminate pointless numeric constants. Using natural units, e=mc^2 becomes e=m. Using natural units, the ideal gas law loses the R constant. Isn't that way better?
Metric is nothing special. For example, the meter is based on an erroneous measurement across France. This bad measurement was used to estimate the size of the Earth so that the meter could be claimed to have a tie to the size of the Earth. (which isn't unchanging anyway, even if it were perfectly round!) We might as well use a foot defined as the distance traveled by light in a particular amount of time, with that time amount chosen so that a foot just happens to match King George's foot.
Base 10 isn't special either. Binary is special, and trivially convertable to the more-compact hexadecimal.
To tell the truth, working with either system or both is not that big of a task. Almost every laboratory deals solely in metric, even those in the U.S. Engineering calculations are done sometimes in metric, sometimes in standard, and few really seem to care as the formulas and end results are the same. The same goes for machines- one machine might have metric-sized fasteners on it and another has SAE-sized ones. Once one has both sets of tools, it ceases to matter what you're working on as you have the correct tool. A 25mm wrench and fastener is no better or worse than a 1" wrench and fastener, so there's really no advantage to either method. There is a bit of a cost to change from one to the other, and thus many Americans don't want to go through the trouble for basically no gain. That's why the U.S. is not on the metric system.
Just "gittin-r-done," day after day.
We also use imperial for everyday.
But, what many here don't seem to realize: we also use metric for science and engineering.
Also, we are taught the metric system in school.
How Can We Convert the US to the Metric System? is like asking "How can we convert France to speaking English?" It would sure be convenient if everyone grew up speaking only English, but that's hardly going to convince the French or the Germans or the Chinese or.... "But people often have to learn English to participate in international life!" True...and lots of Americans learn the metric system for the same reason. Americans are actually rather "bilingual" with their units: we have gallons of milk and liters of soda, ounces of meat and milligrams of vitamins, 100-yard football fields and 100-m dashes.
Seeing Imperial units die out in the U.S. would be as sad as watching Welsh die out in Wales. (Knowing the sorts of people here, I imagine many of you wouldn't give a damn about either.)
Tons? I'd have thought you'd have upgraded to tonnes by now!
You say that as if having twice as many tools doesn't cost anything and doesn't take up twice as much space.
Also, how many bolts have been stripped because someone wasn't careful and tried to use an SAE wrench instead of a metric one? How much time has been wasted trying to figure out if you need SAE or metric?
there's really no advantage to either methodBut there is a huge advantage to going with only one rather than both - and since everyone else in the world uses metric, why not use it too? And actually there is a pretty big advantage to metric - you don't have to remember that there are 12 inches in a foot, 3 feet in a yard, and some other random number of yards in a mile. Pushing a decimal around is just so much easier.
I don't expect us to ever switch, but much more because we're obstinate than because of any sort of rational cost-benefit analysis.
You're own example proves the cost.
1. You, the engineer needed to buy two tools to do the same job.
2. Somewhere in a factory far far away, someone needed to develop two molds, one for the metric set, one for the imperial set and all the other overhead involved with selling two different products.
I agree the most Americans wouldn't want to learn something new and would rather begrudge the rest of the world (as per the norm) by doing things your own way. Think of yourselves as the Sony of countries. You only inter operate when its in your best interest.
Bye!
I think that is the one that would bother me the most!! I know how to dress if it is 32F, or 40F, or 99F.
I'd be lost with whatever the equivalents in C are...(yes, I'm too lazy to look up a converter). But really...most people in the US seldom have a need for accuracy needed in science. For daily life...the mile, mph, mpg...temperature in F is all way too ingrained into the culture and just isn't going to change anytime soon. Most people in the US have very little if any contact with any else in the world besides possibly a chat room on the internet....so, no one here generally sees any reason to change to 'go along' with the rest of the world. They don't see or touch the rest of the world, so, it pretty much doesn't exist to them.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
It is not even so much as that the rest of the world doesn't exist. It's more like out of sight, out of mind. The grand-parent is correct that most Americans will never have any contact with people from another country (Outside Canada or Mexico). The same thing is true that most Europeans will not have any contact with Americans. Honestly, with a giant body of water between the two it isn't exactly easy. Planes don't count. Most people don't make day trips by plane :) I can easily get to Canada with in 2 hours, less if it is a slow day at the border. I can't say the same about France or Germany. But now I'm rambling. So I'll stop.
--
SI is not about division by 10.
It is about almost not needing any calculation at all, since the few fundamental units is a basis for everything else.
How much energy does a 100 Watt bulb burn in a minute? Immediately it is 60 kilojoule, since Watt is defined as "Joules per second".
How much energy does the same bulb burn in a minute for calories? C'mon, imperial people, bring out your calculator, punch fast, and check twice!
most Americans wouldn't want to learn something new
I live in the United States and learned the metric system in elementary school in 1975. My two children learned the metric system in elementary school just a few years ago.
Americans know the metric system. We see the units used on almost all food packaging, too. I have lived in Japan for 9 years and never had a problem with measurements there, either. I also learned SI units for physics class.
The hardest part of the metric system to me is not converting measurements, it's the intuitive feel for a liter, gram, or kilometer. My biggest hang up is temperature. I know that degrees 72F is comfortable and know that a 24C degree room is comfortable, too. However, I will always think internally in degrees Fahrenheit till the day I die. It is what it is.
Please, do not insinuate, however, that Americans do not know the metric system. You can learn it in about 5 minutes. You come off in your post as a bit arrogant and mis-guided.
-- Posted from my parent's basement
Even if all the world standardized their feet on being a U.S. foot, that problem wouldn't disappear.
I will always think internally in degrees Fahrenheit till the day I die. It is what it is.
I think you'll find that your mind is surprisingly flexible.
Personally, I started with the metric system but moved to the US when I was ten. When I left the US nine years later I was just like you - using SAE because it felt right. I've now been in Europe for four years and I've completely switched back to the metric system.
It's all a matter of what your surroundings are measured in.
Jw