New Extended SSL Certs Make Online Debut

An anonymous reader writes "The first of the new 'extended validation' SSL certificates went live this week, signaling the latest effort by the browser makers and major Web sites to further verify the identity of SSL applicants and help consumers spot fraudulent Web sites, the Washington Post's Security Fix blog notes. The technology is pretty simple: Visit a login page for a site that uses one of these EV certs and the browser bar turns green; likewise, the browser's anti-phishing filters can turn the URL field red when the user is at a known phishing site. There is still quite a bit of debate over whether this whole scheme isn't just a new money-making racket for the SSL providers, and whether small mom-and-pop shops will be able to afford the pricey new certs."

Comments

Verifying fingerprints is even more secure

[jannic]

Instead of relying on the trustworthiness of third parties issuing the certificates, one could easily verify the key fingerprints directly.

Unfortunately, browsers make this unnecessarily difficult, and few sites (even online banking sites) publish their fingerprints offline. Wouldn't it be easy for a bank to print the fingerprints in a letter sent to the customer, possibly together with his credit card etc.? If then there were an easy way to show this fingerprint in a web browser, without clicking through several layers of complicated 'key details' pages, people could actually be sure to connect to the correct site.

Additionally, I miss a feature to lock a site to a given key. Say, I'm regularly connecting to the same site, like slashdot. I don't care if the slashdot site is actually related to some company with the same name, or whatever CAs try to tell me with their certificates. All I want to know is if the site I'm sending my password to is really the one I have been visiting since several years, or a fake one trying to steal my password. So all I need is a big warning whenever the site key changes.

Both are not too difficult to implement, I guess, but users need a little more training than just telling them 'a green browser bar means secure'.

Great

[finkployd]

So, the CA oligopoly is now going to be charging extra for doing the assurance checking they should have been doing all along but now admit they were not. And once they decide they need more money I am sure they will claim that they have been screwing up their assurance checking on these new ones as well but for a little bit extra, they will do SUPER DUPER identity validation. Then we can REALLY trust the certs.

Why are we paying and trusting them again?

Finkployd

Re:Nice gig for the Certificate Authorities

[canuck57]

Since they've done such a bad job of this so far (it was quite strict at first), they've now turned around and offered a more expensive certificate with the promise that this time they'll _really_ do their job.

The only certs I trust are the ones I personally sign. So when I am on a PC without the signing CA, it pops up and I can view it. If it isn't mine or one I expect I know a Bluecoat or some other SSL in the middle device is at work. The only way I know to protect against it is to view the cert each and every time you are about use it. Which self signing does this nicely.

Good UI idea, bad (but improved) cert idea

[Sloppy]

The user interface aspect of this is a good idea. One of the bad things about x.509 up to now is that it's all-or-nothing; the other side's identity is either completely trusted or not trusted at all. Real life isn't like that, as pgp took into account a decade and a half ago. Acknowledging that there is a degree to which the other side has been authenticated, and then showing this in the browser, is a step in the right direction. I enthusiastically approve of this change to browser UIs.

On the non-UI front, things are a little less encouraging, but it's still a slight improvement (but with a dark side). It is a fact of reality that an identity certifier has limited resources and no matter what they do, they can be fooled. Letting the certifier put something into the cert to indicate how hard they tried to authenticate, is a good thing. When I sign someone's pgp key, it's good that I can indicate degree of trust; casual trust if all I did was look at someone's government-issued photo id, and strong trust if I actually know the person I'm signing (i.e. a fake ID wouldn't be enough to fool me). I am pleased that the x.509 system now has some sort of way to do this.

It's still unfortunate that they left the biggest weakness in the system, though. An identity is still only certified by one certifier. That's really dumb. Verisign can be fooled, Thawte can be fooled, I can be fooled, but fooling all 3 of us at the same time is a bigger feat, so that would be a great way to improve the amount by which an identity can be believed. That's something that pgp also figured out a decade and a half ago, but x.509 hasn't caught up.

But that leads to the dark side. I think there is a reason the system doesn't support multiple signers: it makes it easier for new CAs to enter the certifying "market", and also could lead users to think about how much they trust the big brand name certifiers. Suppose I claim to meet Amazon's keymaster and I sign their cert. The issue that 99.99% of users would face, upon seeing my signature on Amazon's key, is that they don't have the foggiest idea of who the hell I am or why they should trust me, so they would go into their software and make sure their trust level for me is zero (or really really close to zero). Actually that would be the default. But then it strikes the user: "Wait a minute, how much do I trust Verisign? I don't know any more about them, than I know about Sloppy." So the user then goes into their software and also sets Verisign to a low value. The user should only really trust people they have reason to trust. They probably wouldn't really delete Verisign from their list, but they'd set the trust level to very low. Probably not zero, as there's some "sheep factor" faith level in a big brand name. But the whole issue of thinking about who you trust and to which degree, would be a major threat to the brand name CAs.

I understand why Microsoft is willing to play along with the big CAs. I don't understand why the Mozilla, Konqueror, Safari, etc teams do. Supporting a multiple-certifier system (e.g. OpenPGP) would improve those browers with no apparent downside.

Re:It isn't whether they can afford them.

[Zeinfeld]

What's irritating to me is that I've been a sole proprietorship for almost six years now. I can furnish bank and credit references and tax records to that effect. Seems as though there ought to be a way to verify through those records.

Length of time that a company has been in business is a pretty good indication of legitimacy. The question is how to codify the rules in a form that works internationally.

There are certainly sole traders who hold organizational validation certificates today but the vast majority are for corporations, government agencies etc. I would suspect that most of the sole trader certs are for code signing rather than SSL. At this point there is no enhanced user experience for EV code signing and resolution of the sole trader issue is generally considered to be a necessary first step.

It is important to remember here that the object of the exercise is to be able to tell the consumer when the purchase they make if backed by accountability.

The CAs would very much like to sell EV certs to anyone who is willing to buy one. One of the intentional features of the go green user interface is that it shows the issuer name. If the issuer messes up the relying party can hold the issuer accountable.