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Mac OS X Versus Windows Vista, The Rematch

An anonymous reader writes "InformationWeek follows up its widely read review where Mac OS X beat out Windows Vista in a head-to-head comparison, with a reader debate on which is really the superior operating system. From the article: 'Mac users love venting about Windows... Any company that calls their techs "geniuses" thrive in forums like this. They think they are "cool" and "hip," they don't care about the fact that they have to reset the permissions and turn on Appletalk every five minutes. Windows Vista all the way. If Windows sucks soooo much, how come more people are familiar with it than Mac OS X? Last time I checked, Windows wasn't just a business operating system. Tons upon tons of people use it and like it.'"

19 of 709 comments (clear)

  1. Appletalk? by AltGrendel · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Serious question.

    Who the hell uses Appletalk any more?

    Is this for printer or something?

    --
    The simple truth is that interstellar distances will not fit into the human imagination

    - Douglas Adams

    1. Re:Appletalk? by Golias · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I kind of wondered about that, too. It's like his only real experience with the Mac comes from back in the System 7 days or something.

      They think they are "cool" and "hip," they don't care about the fact that they have to reset the permissions and turn on Appletalk every five minutes

      Reset the permissions? I've been running multiple OS X systems since 10.0, and I've never had to "reset the permissions" even once. I'm not even sure I know where to look to do something like that. WTF is he talking about?

      I would like to get all riled up over his flamebait... but I mostly just feel sorry for the poor, confused person writing this nonsense.

      --

      Information wants to be anthropomorphized.

    2. Re:Appletalk? by oncee · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The only reason to use Appletalk would be because you have an extremely old printer that didn't do TCP/IP. Appletalk is pretty much dead after OS X came around.

    3. Re:Appletalk? by sokoban · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Another guy says "Windows doesn't have font issues, changing permissions on the fly". What the fuck does he mean by "changing permissions of the fly"? chmod? And what "font issues" are he talking about? I sure as hell haven't ever had any, though I've only been using Mac OS since 6.0.8.

      Also, there's the guy who talks about Windows being "IT's 'Dream'" because there are a lot of people who have jobs just supporting Windows. Is the fact that Windows requires a lot of technical support supposed to be a good thing?

      Most people I know who read Information Week are IT folks of the A+/MCSE variety, so I guess this giant steaming load of an article really does reflect that.

      --
      09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 is the magic number.
    4. Re:Appletalk? by happyemoticon · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I was listening to an episode of LUG Radio where they were doing some evaluation of OS X (predictably, some loved it, others not so much, and one guy hated it just because it was proprietary.

      Many of the criticisms of OS X they struck off as irrelevant or persnickety went like this: "Why is the CD Eject button on the keyboard? That's clearly inferior to having a button on the actual drive."

      Well, hardly, because if we lived in a strange alternate universe were Apple ruled the market people would be criticizing IBM clones for having the button on the drive. Most people's complaints about OS X fall under this category. Now, if you were to make some criticisms of Finder (my pet peeves are the network disconnects, its overly-glam and non-utilitarian appearance, and its occasional sluggishness and inconsistency as it attempts to combine the worst of a relational and non-relational browsers) you might have something, and you're out of luck if you want to play any cutting edge games aside from WoW. But if you're going to carry on about how it's an inferior OS because you don't like that shade of gray, then you're a certified fanboy.

    5. Re:Appletalk? by toadlife · · Score: 4, Insightful

      A general rule is that people who participate in OS bashing tend to know little about the OS they are bashing. This applies to all sides.

      --
      I don't always use unix-like operating systems; but when I do, I prefer FreeBSD.
    6. Re:Appletalk? by Cerebus · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "Why perms get mangled is beyond me, I don't seem to have that problem on my Linux systems..."

      Mostly this is because some developers insist on using brain-dead installers, even when a proper appdir is all that's needed. I even had one installer that did a chmod 0777 on /System/Library/StartupItems...*not* a good idea.

      --
      -- Cerebus
    7. Re:Appletalk? by russotto · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What he says is "Windows doesn't have font issues, changing permissions on the fly, and disk errors every so often."

      Methinks our Windows-loving genius doesn't have three problems with his Mac, but rather one. Disk errors? Only time I've seen disk errors is when the disk was physically failing.

    8. Re:Appletalk? by Gr8Apes · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Naah. I bash Windows regularly. I'm also a long time user, admin, programmer, and system/enterprise architect at one time. I'm rather familiar with it, and know at least something about a large number of shortcomings. I've also used DOS, DRDOS, VMS, Irix, Solaris, HP-UX, Linux (various flavors), OS/2, OSX among others with some more in-depth and many across multiple versions.

      In my experience, people who bash windows typically have a reason to bash it. Even the proponents acknowledge there are problems with it. Everything from the GDI being moved into the kernel, the monolithic kernel design itself, the time-slicing approach, the inconsistent GUI, the inherently fragmenting filesystem, the horrible APIs, the bad networking stack, the poor power efficiency performance, the sleep/hibernate issues, etc are all solid reasons to bash it since others don't seem to have those problems even on the same hardware.

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
    9. Re:Appletalk? by gobbo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And I suspect I would get used to it eventually and not mind it any longer if I used Macs routinely. Heck, maybe there's a good reason to be unable to maximize a window as I'm used to doing. I grant that the user paradigm is different, and that I don't know it well at all.

      You've hit it exactly, it's a different paradigm. Since Mac applications only run one instance, windows are attached to the application. The green button isn't a maximize button, as the windows on a Mac are supposed to interleave, as part of a system-wide integration that allows for things like truly useful drag-n-drop. The green button 'zooms,' using a a snap-to-fit-content approach, and toggling with a user-defined setting. In other words, if you want to maximize a window, just size it manually, then it should remember that--but you lose some of the aforementioned integration. Personally, snap-to-content makes a hell of a lot of sense to me, when it works (depends on the quality of app: MS products are notoriously bad at this, e.g.). You know you're really using a Mac to good effect when you're moving stuff effortlessly from window to window, app to app, and treating windows like children of parent applications.

      But it sure did make me uncomfortable back when I did occasionally have to use a Mac at work. Especially as this was back in the "circular hockey puck mouse" days.

      That puck is the worst mouse ever made. The first thing I do to a new Mac (dozens or hundreds since '90), is get a real 3+ button mouse or trackball on it--contextual clicking is reasonably well integrated into the OS. The second thing is to set up proper keyboard powers, through Keyquencer in the old days (I miss that app) and Quicksilver and Automater now.

      RULE: never trust a computer as it comes from the factory, it isn't finished and it is commercially sabotaged.

  2. informal tone by otacon · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If Windows sucks soooo much, how come more people are familiar with it than Mac OS X? How am I supposed to take this person's opinion seriously when they speak in a 13 year old's tone?
    --
    In a world of acronyms, the words are the real victims.
  3. Re:They submitter sould have saved themselves by rblancarte · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Too late.

    Overall, as a PC user, I really like to see the benefits of OS-X. To the chagrin of some of my friends, I actually plan on adding a Mac to my computer inventory very soon. I really like the system and think it has a good look/feel to it. Though a lot of my friends have knocked Apple quality and their lack of pre-announcement of products, instead letting a user blow $2k on a new laptop that they don't know in a week will be lower in price or that the same $2k would get twice the system the next week.

    That being said, I really like XP, and due to the underwhelming interest in Vista, I think I am going to be sticking with XP for a while. I just don't see the need to upgrade to Vista right now.

    RonB

    --
    It is human nature to take shortcuts in thinking.
  4. Popularity != quality by Scrameustache · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If organic meals comprising all food groups, rich in fiber, vitamins and proteins are so much better, than why are more people eating at McDonald's?

    Same deal.

    --

    You can't take the sky from me...

  5. Great arguments by melikamp · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If Windows sucks soooo much, how come more people are familiar with it than Mac OS X?

    If Hitler sucks soooo much, how come more people are familiar with him than with Asoka?

  6. Use *and* Like? by DreadSpoon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "Tons upon tons of people use it and like it."

    The first part we are all aware of. The second part... on what basis did that come from? I can't think of a single person who "likes" Windows. They simply use Windows because they don't have a whole lot of choice: it's either all they know how to use, or the only OS that plays their games, or the only OS that runs on, etc.

    You might even be able to convince me that people like Windows [i]more than[/i] alternatives, like OS X and Linux. I could easily see that. OS X has some really dumb design flaws and Linux is still a pain in the ass to use as soon as you want to run non-standard software (not even Debian packages *everything*, people). In a lot of ways, Windows is easier and it's quicker to get certain things done.

    However, I still don't buy that there is a great number of people who "like Windows" entirely on its own merits. They might like it better than nothing, or better than alternatives, but that's isn't the same as liking Windows. It's like saying that I like having a broken arm because it's better than having no arm or having a frost-bitten arm.

  7. Irony by greysky · · Score: 5, Insightful
    From the article:
    I can't wait until the first Mac Virus hits... I want to see how cool Mac OS X is then.

    Is it just me, or does anyone else see this statement as just a little ironic?
  8. At the right place at the right time by rolfwind · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Microsoft was at the right place at the right time originally, that is why its OS is so dominant these days. Upgrades are usually taken because they are the path of least resistance.

    Saying it is better because of its marketshare is just a logical fallacy based on popularity. It is like debating religion and saying one is right or wrong based on its "marketshare."

    For me, simply, Microsoft is the inferior OS to BSD, Linux Distros, and Mac OS X simply because it is a security nightmare in so many ways - and I have to spend my time working, not running antispyware, anti-adware, or fixing other things about the OS (registry). I also find Microsoft asks me to push the "OK" button too often for crap, or nags me about updates (every 5 minutes after I initially say "no") when I just want the OS to shut up and stay out of the way. That is my metric, some people have different metrics (games, certain apps) and that makes Microsoft suitable to them.

    (BTW, saying that an OS has certain exclusive apps does not make that OS inherently superior as 3rd party apps, by definition, aren't inherent to the OS. It is a reality we all have to live with, but I think it is disingenuine to say that the OS is innately superior because of this, rather than simply acknowledging that it might be more suitable because of said apps.)

  9. Re:They submitter sould have saved themselves by Bega · · Score: 5, Insightful

    As a matter of fact, I just wrote about this in a blog, on the topic of Windows vs OSX;

    There's one thing annoys the hell out of me with Windows. It's not Windows per se -- but it's the constant brainfarts I feel that Microsoft made when designing their product. That's actually one reason why I switched over to Apple, because when I'm OSX, it can take days before the OS itself has something to tell me, or I notice the OS itself. I know, these are some incredibly small things and many people might think that I shouldn't be using a computer at all , but for me, some of these things are really frustrating and they make the user experience worse.

    Now, I don't mean to start the traditional Windows vs OS X war, but here are a few points I have noticed with my somewhat long experience with working in Windows -- the most recent one that I came to think about is how XP for instance is nagging about cleaning up your desktop icons, *even when they're hidden*. I know for one thing that I usually use the desktop for alot of stuff, and hide the icons because I rarely have to use it anyway, and this is something that I feel that Windows is screwing up with; it doesn't take into account the things you have done, e.g. hid your desktop icons.

    Then, let's take another thing -- dialogs. The thing that strikes me with the dialog boxes in Windows is that they rarely tell you in a coherent way what the dialog does. Of course, you have the usual "The text in the file X has changed. Do you want to save changes?" dialog box -- with Yes, No and Cancel buttons. This is just normal, right? Usually, the normal user would just click the button that they think is the right choice -- and I think anybody who has worked as computer support knows, that when people work a little bit longer with computers, they stop reading the dialogs and go with routine -- and this usually ends up in something being lost; "I clicked that one button and it disappeared". Another example of stupid dialog boxes is the WinXP Safe Mode prompt, when you get to choose whether you want to go to Safe Mode or System Recovery; "Press Yes to continue to Safe Mode, No to go to System Recovery", followed with a dialog box filled with a lot of text. What I do like, is the OSX way of dialog boxes; they have the same text, usually, but instead of having a generic Yes/No/Cancel-selection of buttons, the buttons themselves are captioned by what they do when you press them -- e.g. "Save/Don't Save/Cancel".

    As with Vista, the user access control is another nice feature, that I'm puzzled over what it's supposed to do. Sure, it's supposed to have your attention when a program wants to do something what the program isn't supposed to do. I've grown a bit tired in "authenticating" -- or to put it more accurately -- "approving" the actions programs want to take. I'll go to the Task Manager, start up the Resource Monitor - I get to click the approve button there already once. I wish to install Firefox? Sure, after I approve.

    Of course -- after the initial installation, I'm being bombarded with tips, tricks, tutorials and balloon tips what I can and can't do. There isn't even a checkbox anywhere, that I have the possibility to tell the System that "Yes, I have used Windows before and I would not like to receive any notification [about new features]." This is the thing that frustrates me -- the System is so in my face the whole time, that it distracts me from the work I'm supposed to do, instead of babysitting the computer.

    But this is just me. I'm sure there are somebody who agrees with these things and some others that think that maybe I should stop using computers. Maybe I should -- because with the current usability and frustration, I think we'd be better off.

    --

    THIS IS THE INTERNET. PLEASE PICK UP YOUR SERIOUS BUSINESS SUIT AT THE FRONT COUNTER.
  10. Re:They submitter sould have saved themselves by hxnwix · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If you are using the internet, that is a networking 'service' Would you care to elaborate on that? It sounds as if Microsoft (mis)nomenclature has you all mixed up.