NASA Commemorates Space Shuttle Tragedies

eldavojohn writes "Space.com is covering NASA's commemoration of the Apollo 1 crew & the last shuttle crews of both the Challenger and Columbia orbiters. The Apollo 1 crew was lost forty years ago yesterday to a fire while testing their spacecraft on a launch pad. From the article: 'While the nearly two decades separating NASA's three space disasters allowed room for the agency to grow complacent, the relatively short time between the 2003 loss of Columbia and the end of the shuttle program could avoid a repeat of such behavior.'"

Comments

Antiques

[Original Replica]

the relatively short time between the 2003 loss of Columbia and the end of the shuttle program could avoid a repeat of such behavior.

So could replacing the shuttles. Even if we keep the basic design, make one or two that are built for more frequent service and toss the rest. The only reason to "end" the shuttle program is that it became stagant.

Re:Antiques

[Original Replica]

Ok, so one important evolution of the shuttles would be an effective launch escape system where all of the crew is seated during lift-off. I'm sure there are many other issues that need to be addressed with the current design, but that's because the current design is so old. We need take these lessons and apply them, but I think further exploration of space still needs some heavy re-useable ultity vehicles. The shuttles were some real workhorses in their prime. Going back to rockets with single use capsules is not the answer.

Re:Antiques

[Nyeerrmm]

Unfortunately the unsafe-ness of the shuttle isn't a small thing can be fixed, its a result of the side mounted configuration. With Apollo/Orion type capsules, or even a top mounted space plane, you can have an escape system that pulls the manned component off the top, and it's impossible to damage it with falling debris from other parts of the launch vehicle.

Also, the very idea of the reusable manned/cargo vehicle is inherently flawed. My personal favorite analogy is like deciding that you should buy a truck (instead of a truck and a small car) because you need to haul stuff around occasionally, with gas costing $1000 per gallon.

The new configuration, assuming it works as they say it will, is superior in l ways but one. The Ares V will have 130 m-T capability to LEO instead of the shuttles 24 m-T. The Orion capsule is in fact reusable, and while smaller than the shuttle, it doesn't make sense to launch the labs every time you go up. This goes with the idea that the ISS will become something useful. Having another tragedy like Columbia, while not only less likely, would also not cause a loss of our cargo capacity as well, which led to the current state of the ISS. The only real disadvantage is our inability to return things from orbit, and as far as I know we've never used that capability.

Lessons being forgotten already

[Buran]

They are already violating their own "rules". One important factor in both shuttle losses was the mindset of "We need to get this done, we don't have time to do it right." Challenger had to get off the ground as soon as possible. Columbia's loss was in part due to "we don't have time to check that" attitudes from those who could have looked for damage while the orbiter was still in orbit (i.e. photography from other spacecraft) and the assumption that there was no real problem.

Yet, NASA continues to insist it will retire the fleet not when it is actually good and ready to do so (i.e. when it is truly safe to, when the station is done, not just rushing to an arbitrary deadline) in 2010. Every time this is brought up, they say 2010.

Why, if they claim to have learned from these deadly accidents, are they continuing to be inflexible and continuing to cite the same hard date?

The correct answer is, "When the station has been safely completed according to all our rules, including safety requirements."

I've been a space buff for years and their repeated failure to learn even though they've lost THREE CREWS is mind-boggling. Going to a new design that doesn't have the design flaws (sidemount etc.) the Shuttle system does may help. But continuing to make the same mistakes, even after all this ... that's just amazing.

Schools

[Satertek]

Having gone to schools honoring two of these men (Roger Chaffee Elementary and Virgil Grissom High), I've had a deep respect for the Apollo 1 crew my entire life. (There is also an Ed White Middle, and all three are in Huntsville, AL)