Linden Labs Sends "Permit-and-Proceed" Letter

linuxwrangler writes "In sharp contrast to the incidents chronicled at Chilling Effects, Second Life creators Linden Labs have sent the parody site Get a First Life a proceed-and-permit letter. From the letter: 'Linden Lab is well-known for having strict hiring standards, including a requirement for having a sense of humor, from which our lawyers receive no exception. In conclusion, your invitation to submit a cease-and-desist letter is hereby rejected.' The letter also grants permission to use the parody logos."

Comments

pun intended

[macadamia_harold]

Second Life creators Linden Labs have sent the parody site Get a First Life a proceed-and-permit letter.

In other words, they're virtually going along with the joke.

Re:pun intended

[DemoFish]

In other words, they're virtually going along with the joke. In Soviet Russia... "Permit-and-Proceed" Letters sends YOU.

Re:pun intended

[Anonymous Coward]

Worst. Soviet Russia joke. Ever.

Re:pun intended

[scumdamn]

Not to be a noodge, but they've enhanced the joke as far as I'm concerned. I would appreciate Get A First Life without the letter, but the wording in the letter is right on. I bet the legal dept. got with the marketing dept. for that one because the tone is just perfect. Dry, yet actually funny (you've seen companies try too hard I'm sure. This isn't the case.)

Re:pun intended

[Shadarr]

I think it's pretty obvious that Linden Labs is brilliant at generating publicity. They manage to get their press releases reprinted as articles on big sites like Slashdot pretty regularly. It's not that surprising that they'd see the PR possibilities where other companies would just see an attack on their brand. Too bad the product isn't actually worth the publicity they generate.

Its a great game.

[Frogbert]

I've always said second life is like four times better then half-life.

Re:Its a great game.

[Pyrex5000]

Or, according to Verizon math, Second Life is four hundred times better than half-life.

Re:Its a great game.

[AbRASiON]

Is that .5 or .05 of a life? and African or European lifes?

Re:Its a great game.

[the_other_one]

Is half-life 2 the first life that we are supposed to get?

Re:Its a great game.

[metlin]

Wait a while, and it'll be eight times as good! ;-)

Re:Its a great game.

[Sanguis Mortuum]

African or European lifes? Laden, or unladen?

Re:Its a great game.

[savorymedia]

Second Life is double plus good?

Re:Its a great game.

[Anonymous Coward]

secondlife + red vines = crazy delicious

Re:Its a great game.

[God'sDuck]

Laden, or unladen?

This is Slashdot. Do you have to ask?

Re:Its a great game.

[tepples]

Laden, or unladen?

Bin Laden.

Does Second Life have terrorist organizations?

Re:Its a great game.

[Anonymous Coward]

no no,

it's _UP TO_ four hundred times better.

Re:Its a great game.

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't you mean 'Linden' or 'unlinden'?

Re:Its a great game.

[Dmala]

Yes, although they generally use giant, undulating penises instead of bombs.

IP and Fair Use

[DeadManCoding]

In an age of the MAFIAA and other organizations dedicated to maintaining stupid IP laws and restrictive fair use laws, it's nice to see a company realize that a parody only helps them more. After all, this is free PR, and good PR at that.

Re:IP and Fair Use

[lamasquerade]

...it's nice to see a company realize that a parody only helps them more.

Indeed, or even that behaving socially (as opposed to the MPAA's sociopathic actions) is more important that whether or not GetAFirstLife's action helps them. Reading the letter I was struck by just how ridiculous the expected behaviour of companies is. We expect them to act ultra-selfishly - and of course this is covered by the focus of a corporation, profit above all else. But to see a company have some humour, and even grant something it doesn't need to (possibly for a long term profit motive as suggested by parent, but also possibly just because it can and it's nice) shows that the all-profiting, knee jerk bullshit that we are used to is not at all necessary.

Re:IP and Fair Use

[GuyWithLag]

Actually, Linden Labs had to permit or deny use of their logo, or risk losing the trademark. This is a clever move by them both from the legal side and the PR it generates.

Re:IP and Fair Use

[networkBoy]

In fact you are very correct. (I was honestly blown away).
I've written about this on my site below in my sig, or specifically in the editorial section: http://www.farmersreallysucks.com/editorialgetafir stlife.shtml

While the response from Linden Labs was permissive, in another editorial (the one why Arent Fox sucks) I pick apart the inherent error in judgment sending a stern C&D letter up-front. You can always send a nice letter and follow up with threats if necessary. In the meantime, anyone who would shut down their site upon utterance of lawyers will still do so, and you'll get a feel for those of us who know our rights before you stick you foot in it, like Farmers lawyers did.
-nB

Re:IP and Fair Use

[Sique]

This is a clever move by them both from the legal side and the PR it generates. There is nothing wrong with being clever and funny at the same time (even though the /. moderation system seems to think otherwise).

Re:IP and Fair Use

[veganboyjosh]

it always amazes me to read/hear about corporations that operate with the "profit first" motive. as opposed to some other companies, such as this one, who do something good/funny/charitable in lieu of heavy handing it right away. sure, they could have sent a c&d letter right away, but as other posters have already said, this is a neat way for them to retain their hold without being asshats. in the longterm, it now endears the company name to people (who also have a sense of humor) who know nothing about them other than this story. when i hear the name again, i'll think of this story. which puts the company miles ahead of others whose names i associate with overbearing drm, rootkits, etc... in effect, by taking this (non)action, they've potentially made more customers, who are happy with their products for more than just the product's sake. a smart move on several levels, methinks.

Re:IP and Fair Use

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh yes; absolutely true, just as long as it isn't a parody site we're talking about. If this whole article (and even the article summary) had mentioned that 1st life is a parody site, then your post would have been totally off topic. But of course they didn't as "we who don't need to read the artice to know what it says" can tell immediately.

BTW, my captcha for this post was "buffoons"; freudian? psychic?

Re:IP and Fair Use

[BakaHoushi]

Wait, so... you're saying... people might like companies whose first action ISN'T to legally rape anyone who even remotely steps into questionable copyright territory? ...I just don't see it.

Re:IP and Fair Use

[miyako]

I see this complaint all the time, but if something is already modded funny (which doesn't give karma) can't you just mod it underrated- which will give karma and not change the label? That's what I generally do if something is funny enough to be worth karma, or largely funny but also insightful.

Re:IP and Fair Use

[GuyWithLag]

Actually, I have visited the site, both now and the first time it was mentioned, and I've read the letter too. While the site is parody, the stuff sold on cafepress with the 'get a first life' logo is in a quasi-grey area, and Linden Labs, by law, has to either defend their trademark or lose it.

Re:IP and Fair Use

[arodland]

Acting in the "community" way is the selfish thing to do most of the time -- it's just a sort of long-term selfishness that many businesses can't seem to appreciate. It's guaranteeing that there will be an ecosystem for you to be part of down the road, instead of alienating/bankrupting/killing all of your potential customers and partners.

Re:IP and Fair Use

[Petey_Alchemist]

You'd think that, but when there isn't an obvious opportunity for good PR, Linden Lab is even more proactive in chilling efforts. This article details how they sent a frantic letter to the CBC to keep a critic from speaking out on a radio show. Not that you'd ever know it from the mainstream media's lack of coverage.

Re:IP and Fair Use

[yarbo]

Some people don't want to read jokes and they should be reduce the rating (shown to them) of posts modded funny. Funny moderations are meta-moderated, underrated moderations aren't.

Re:IP and Fair Use

[Hamilton Lovecraft]

It's not even a "profit first" motive -- it's an "aggression first" motive. The parody site is almost certainly not cutting into Second Life's profits -- I'd guess it's giving 2L a very slight publicity boost, if anything.

Re:IP and Fair Use

[RexRhino]

I resent you comparing the RIAA to the Mafia. The Mafia has traditionally increased people's freedom and personal choice (by providing goods and services that wouldn't be available via traditional sources because of government prohibition), while the RIAA decreases people's freedom and personal choice by encouraging government prohibition.

Re:IP and Fair Use

[dr_labrat]

But that is sooo unfair.

What if you don't want to read things that are underrated, but still want to read funmy things?

Oh right. Other sites.

Re:IP and Fair Use

[BigBlockMopar]

Actually, Linden Labs had to permit or deny use of their logo, or risk losing the trademark. This is a clever move by them both from the legal side and the PR it generates.

Yeah, I have no idea what the hell Linden Labs is, or what this First Life/Second Life thing is all about. But, based on this, I know I like Linden Labs. I think I'm going to hit Wikipedia right now.

Re:IP and Fair Use

[David Gould]

It's not even a "profit first" motive -- it's an "aggression first" motive. Indeed. For a nice encapsulation of this concept, see the Jargon File entry for the term "hollised". Though it refers specifically to over-reactionary policies on public postings by an organization's own employees, it can carry over to any of that sort of knee-jerk aggression. The last sentence is especially relevant:

Use of this term carries the strong connotation that the persons doing the gagging are bureaucratic idiots blinded to their own best interests by territorial reflexes.

Re:IP and Fair Use

[Anonymous Coward]

There is nothing wrong with being clever and funny at the same time (even though the /. [slashdot.org] moderation system seems to think otherwise).

Wait a minute... Are you actually linking to slashdot from slashdot??

I think someone got a little linking-happy right there.

Re:IP and Fair Use

[Anonymous Coward]

I quote from the FAQ.

Note that being moderated Funny doesn't help your karma. You have to be smart, not just a smart-ass.

Now I understand CmdrTaco's reasoning behind this of not wanting Slashdot to turn into a beerfest. But nowadays with all the FUD, misinformed people and half knowledge/thoughts posts, I actually enjoy the funny rated comments more than I used to.

depressing

[qw0ntum]

How depressing is it that this type of thing would only happen in an online world? I think if someone did this to Disney they would send Mickey to come eat you or something.

Re:depressing

[Anonymous Coward]

I think if someone did this to Disney they would send Mickey to come eat you or something.

Make that the little mermaid. She can eat me any time!

Re:depressing

[richie2000]

I think if someone did this to Disney they would send Mickey to come eat you or something. I can see the cartoon now: Minnie laying on the bed with the speech bubble: "Mickey, come eat me". ;-)

Re:depressing

[Baloo Ursidae]

You must be new, or you would have known The Internet's motto: "Yes, there's porn of that."

Re:depressing

[metlin]

Dude!

That is so wrong. I could say something about mice and pussycats, but that would just be wrong.

Re:depressing

[hotdiggitydawg]

I think if someone did this to Disney they would send Mickey to come eat you or something. I can see the cartoon now: Minnie laying on the bed with the speech bubble: "Mickey, come eat me". ;-) Well come on then, seed the torrent for the rest of us...

Re:depressing

[Anonymous Coward]

In the words of Harlan Ellison: "Hey, Kiddies, what a kick, let's do a Disney porno flick"

Micky: I always knew that Minnie was f*cking Goofy, but I didn't know she was f*cking Goofy!!!

Re:depressing

[b4stard]

Dude, the little mermaid is like 12 years old...

Re:depressing

[JerBear0]

Sure, she's 12 years old in MERMAID years, but how old is that in HUMAN years?!?!

Re:depressing

[RESPAWN]

You must be new, or you would have known The Internet's motto: "Yes, there's porn of that." I don't know. I still haven't found any Cheerios porn, and I've had a connection to the internet since 1996. :(

Re:depressing

[Anonymous Coward]

He meant "I can see it now" literally.

Re:depressing

[Anonymous Coward]

Mickey: Minnie, I want a divorce!

Minnie: Are you fucking crazy?

Mickey: No, I'm fucking Daisy!

Re:depressing

[ZorinLynx]

It's been a while, but I distinctly recall her saying she was 16 in the movie.

Of course, that's still "underage" in most states, but the concept is not as disturbing as if she were 12...

-Z

Re:depressing

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah your in definite need of a first life.

Re:depressing

[argent]

Disney has been known to send C&D letters to day-care centers where someone had painted a picture of Das Mouse on the wall.

Re:depressing

[DMUTPeregrine]

Go to /b/ and call Rule 34 on it. It shall appear for you soon.

Re:depressing

[Baloo Ursidae]

I don't know. I still haven't found any Cheerios porn, and I've had a connection to the internet since 1996. :(

Nice try, but I will not find the magic google keywords that cater to your fetish for you.

Re:depressing

[RESPAWN]

LOL. I really don't think it exists. That has always been my counter-example to my friends' claims that you can find anyting on the internet. In fact, I once offered up a prize of first, a case of beer, but later upped it to $100 to any one of my group friends who could legitimately find porn with cheerios on the internet. Nobody won the bet. (Of course, I was also drunk so it may have just been that nobody believed I would actually follow through on my bet. :)

Re:depressing

[Baloo Ursidae]

Heh, your signature is misguided. You've gotten Finagle's Law and Murphy's Law confused.

Yay linden labs

[ocelotbob]

Now if only other people could be so lenient towards copyright...

Re:Yay linden labs

[Kelz]

One does wonder how one may patent a series of movements set to music :P (how many monkeys...)

Oh and that WAS a really good show.

Re:Yay linden labs

[ocelotbob]

Hey, furries bring the funk...unfortunately, some fanboys bring more than their fair share ;3. Plus, that dance may not even be copyrightable. As it was created prior to 1978, the rules on copyright are a lot different, and it seems that Mr. Silver doesn't really have a legal leg to stand on.

Re:Yay linden labs

[Boogaroo]

Copyright and trademark are different situations. To protect your trademark(logo, company name, etc) you MUST take action to protect it. If you ignore it, you may lose your trademark protection. If you license/permit the usage to a group, this is seen as a way to protect your trademark since you've considered the usage and allowed the parties to use the trademark.

If they did nothing at all, that would cause potential problems. Their response is both classy, and covers their ass.

Re:Yay linden labs

[ocelotbob]

I'd disagree. A tip of the hat without a license would serve just as much purpose. Hell, saying nothing at all wouldn't cause any problems, all things considered. Obvious parody is something that weighs heavy in trademark rulings, so it is doubtful that any sort of acknowledgment is needed in this situation.

Re:Yay linden labs

[bersl2]

Trademark law (at least, the case law) doesn't work like that.

If you do not take steps to protect your trademark by either threatening to sue or---apparently, because I've never seen it done like this until now---granting permission, then if someone does end up violating your trademark, no matter how flagrantly, they can argue (and successfully at that) that the mark has been diluted and is therefore invalid. You snooze, you lose.

Interestingly, a recent instance of this happening was when Sega Europe fired off a nastygram to YTMND regarding an instance of [ahem] unsavory treatment [link NSFW] of a certain trademarked character. Sega can't do anything right these days. If you read the C&D, you can tell it's pure BS, but it's this aspect of trademark law (i.e., needing to defend marks in such an asshatterous manner) that gets it put on my personal proscription list, along with copyright and patent.

Re:Yay linden labs

[ocelotbob]

I'm not so certain in cases like this. There are plenty of situations of comedic movies where a trademark is parodied and no such mention of licensing is made. Perhaps certain litigious parties would like people to believe that one has to file claims against every usage, regardless of how small, but precedent seems to suggest otherwise.

Re:Yay linden labs

[bersl2]

I'm not so certain in cases like this. There are plenty of situations of comedic movies where a trademark is parodied and no such mention of licensing is made. Perhaps certain litigious parties would like people to believe that one has to file claims against every usage, regardless of how small, but precedent seems to suggest otherwise. One need not sue everyone; one need not even threaten everyone. When in doubt, threaten now, ask questions later. All that matters is that you can demonstrate a history of enforcing the rights granted by the mark.

Re:Yay linden labs

[Kelz]

I noted that the hot tub was closed the first day due to the chlorine content being upped by about 15x.

Re:Yay linden labs

[ocelotbob]

Yeah, made me glad I had a suite up on the 9th floor. Yay for no fanboy funk while hot tubbing.

Dangerous precedent being set

[toupsie]

The parody site operator of getafirstlife.com should reject this letter immediately. How many companies in the future will start referring to this action as a basis to stop "fair use"? i.e., "Hey, we didn't provide you with a proceed-and-permit letter. It's now time for some of that sweet, sweet DMCA action until you capitulate!" The appropriate response should be, "FU and the virtual horse you rode in on" to Linden Labs in regards to this letter -- especially the final sentence This license may be modified, addended, or revoked at any time by Linden Lab in its sole discretion.

Re:Dangerous precedent being set

[deft]

something tells me you wouldnt be hired where they require the sense of humor.

Re:Dangerous precedent being set

[delirium of disorder]

"FU and the virtual horse you rode in on" to Linden Labs in regards to this letter -- especially the final sentence This license may be modified, addended, or revoked at any time by Linden Lab in its sole discretion.

Lighten up, it's a joke!

Re:Dangerous precedent being set

[toupsie]

Lighten up, it's a joke!

Not a very funny one. If I want lawyer jokes, I will look elsewhere...

Re:Dangerous precedent being set

[toupsie]

something tells me you wouldnt be hired where they require the sense of humor.

I have a better sense of humor than this feeble attempt at attracting attention.

Re:Dangerous precedent being set

[creysoft]

They acknowledge First Life's inherent right to parody several times, even jokingly stated that they were insulted by the idea that their lawyers WOULDN'T recognize such a right. The only "license" here is a license for the derivative trademark, which they note "may require a license." Notice they didn't say "does require a license." It's more, "Hey, we think this probably falls under fair use. But just in case it doesn't, and anyone ever hassles you about it, here's a license saying you can use it anyway."

The final clause is standard CYA language. If, for example, First Life started using their derivative logo to do something damaging to Second Life's reputation, Second Life's lawyers may look into it, and if, in fact, the logo is infringing, they may revoke the license. Surely you can't reasonably expect them to grant them a perpetual, non-revokable license to do anything they want with a very slightly modified logo?

The whole thing's basically a joke anyway, to let everyone know that they know about First Life, and are 100% OK with it. It's also a cheap jab at companies with less sense of humor.

Re:Dangerous precedent being set

[suv4x4]

The parody site operator of getafirstlife.com should reject this letter immediately. How many companies in the future will start referring to this action as a basis to stop "fair use"? i.e., "Hey, we didn't provide you with a proceed-and-permit letter.

You should get to know Jack Thompson. My gut tells me you'll do incredible things together.

Re:Dangerous precedent being set

[Falladir]

"companies in the future will start referring to this action"

I'm no lawyer, but I aren't precedents set by courts? The actions of a company's legal team have no effect on the status quo.

Re:Dangerous precedent being set

[RealGrouchy]

I have a better sense of humor than this feeble attempt at attracting attention.

I don't understand. Are you grumpy because:
(a) They are succeeding at attracting attention;
(b) You are not succeeding at attracting attention, despite your grumpiest attempts;
(c) You discovered that www.getafirstlife.com is not actually functional

- RG>

Re:Dangerous precedent being set

[mrchaotica]

Maybe so, but he's got a point. The law doesn't have a sense of humor, so lawyers can't really afford to have on either.

Re:Dangerous precedent being set

[syousef]

Actually they'd be right to ignore it. If they accept it or reject or respond in any way they legitimise it. In any case being granted permission does not set a precedent that you MUST be granted permission. If my boss tells me I can go to the doctor if I'm seriously ill and need urgent medical attention it does not mean that if he doesn't give permission the next time I'm ill that I can't go. No license needed to be granted here. I believe parody is protected under US laws, though I'm not a US citizen and I honestly don't know the detail.

Re:Dangerous precedent being set

[Joebert]

I have a better sense of humor than this feeble attempt at attracting attention.

Not according to todays Slashdot moderators you don't.

Around here, a sense of humor seems to be defined as answering the question,

"What do you call 10,000 lawyers at the bottom of the ocean ?"

with "A good start !", not "Evidence !".

Re:Dangerous precedent being set

[networkBoy]

I pick C, but as I read the authors blog I kinda understand why he only made one page.

As to the license (GP post) that was just a touch of the real lawyers CYA coming through.
-nB

Re:Dangerous precedent being set

[anagama]

The parody site operator of getafirstlife.com should reject this letter immediately. How many companies in the future will start referring to this action as a basis to stop "fair use"?

Wow. Layoff the paranoia pipe a bit. Everyone knows that parody is OK. It has been for years. Companies have been parodied on Saturday Night Live since the stoner age. If they were gonna get the fair use provisions relating to parody changed, they would have done it already.

Secondly, if we want companies to be good citizens and respectful of individual's rights, should not also individuals respect companies when the company does something right? I do. I went to second life from the first life page and signed up for an account. Who woulda thought they actually have a linux version (alpha) for the game?

What I see is a company that is not full of pricks, plus they supply a linux version of the game. Isn't that what (we linux users at least) have been saying would be great? I say that's worthy of my support so I flipped them a few bucks.

Re:Dangerous precedent being set

[Thexare Blademoon]

RealGrouchy is commenting on someone being grumpy. Let's think about that for a moment.

Re:Dangerous precedent being set

[Anonymous Coward]

It may look like a jone but the letter is from a lawyer and the letter says REVOCABLE! WTF more do you need? It says REVOCABLE at ANY TIME.

Re:Dangerous precedent being set

[initialE]

It's a joke, written by lawyers. My head's about to explode - don't we hate lawyers anymore?

Re:Dangerous precedent being set

[networkBoy]

It's also a cheap jab at companies with less sense of humor.

So, like all of them?

Re:Dangerous precedent being set

[Darby]

It's also a cheap jab at companies with less sense of humor.

I agree with your whole post except for this bit. "Cheap" inexpensive, sure. Usually "cheap" has negative connotations though, which I don't think apply to this. I think it's a pretty classy jab at companies with less sense of humor.

Anyhow, pedantry doesn't work so well at work or home so there's /. ;-)

Re:Dangerous precedent being set

[sineltor]

The law doesn't have a sense of humor, so lawyers can't really afford to have on either.

Following that logic, maybe computer programmers can't afford to have a sense of humor either?

Re:Dangerous precedent being set

[Aladrin]

If you think computers (and compilers) don't have a sense of humor, you've never programmed. I can't count the number of times I've been coding and random nonsense errors start happening, and rebooting was the solution to the problem, not bad code. I just -know- it's laughing at me every time that happens. (Granted, it's only ever happened to me on Windows, but I haven't done much Linux programming in C.)

Re:Dangerous precedent being set

[Lemmeoutada Collecti]

Pollution. Global Cooling. Artificial Reef. Shark Repellent. Recycling.

Anything but useless.

Re:Dangerous precedent being set

[Tom]

The law does have quite a bit of humour, you just have to be a lawyer or someone with legal training to appreciate it.

For example, a workers law here in Germany requires the top boss to talk to the elected workers' council at least once a month. Let me skip the why and boring details. One company persistently rejected to even acknowledge that elected body even existed, much less deal with them.

So one court case later, the judgement was to take the offenders into custody. It's called "Beugehaft" in Germany, the idea being that for minor crimes where fines aren't the proper punishment because what you want is someone to do something, you take him into custody until he says "ok, ok". Now here's the joke: The judgement called for this punishment to be levied on the entire board of directors, and immediately due to the danger of them fleeing. The people who thought they were above it all were in immediate danger of being put behind bars within the hour. And sure, they could call for revision, but they'd still be taken from their office by police and spend at least one night in jail.
A bunch of frentic phonecalls later, the CEO had binding instructions to cooperate fully with the workers council.

Lawyers laugh as much as anyone. It's just that most of their jokes are as puzzling to us as C++ jokes are to your grandmother.

Re:Dangerous precedent being set

[TapeCutter]

Yes, a parody of a parody in reply to a public challenge to defend thier trademark tells me someone with a bit of class and dignity is on the ball at that company.

Re:Dangerous precedent being set

[FishWithAHammer]

Unfortunately, the Linux client sucks and is often broken. They put one guy on it, and they don't accept source patches from outside.

Their GPLing of the source is a joke, because you can't use a modified client on the main grid.

Re:Dangerous precedent being set

[Eivind]

The law does definitely have a sense of humour.

Re:Dangerous precedent being set

[vadim_t]

Bullshit.

1. It works. Everything but video works fine. Sure, it crashes once in a while, but so does the Windows one, so I don't think that's specific to the Linux version.

2. I have modified the source, and connected to the main grid using the compiled client.

Regarding whether they accept patches, not 100% sure there, but the latest version compiles on GCC 4.1 when the first releases didn't. It looks like they integrated fixes people made for that.

Re:Dangerous precedent being set

[smellsofbikes]

I haven't gotten mine to work at *all*. When I try and launch it, it throws some screen up about how it can't open a new window. Do you have a firewall? What ports do you open? (I read what Linden sez about it and opened those, but still no good.) I'm almost desperate enough to make a Windows install just to see if the problem is my linux setup.

Re:Dangerous precedent being set

[vadim_t]

I have a firewall, but I don't remember having to open any ports for it. I think it only makes outbound connections, so it should work fine without changing anything.

Regarding your problems, haven't had anything like that happen here. Perhaps you have an ATI card? I heard of problems with them.

BTW, the Windows client ran flawlessly in Wine last time I checked, so if you want to try it, that could avoid having to do a Windows install.

Re:Dangerous precedent being set

[deft]

aww snap, poupsie got PWND!

lol, relax, it was a joke.... just like the first one YOU DIDN'T GET.

It's not often your subject comes to the aid of making your point, but be sure you have my thanks :)

Re:Dangerous precedent being set

[anagama]

My experience is the same (it works fine). I downloaded it and stuck it in my home dir. Using a terminal, I moved the SL dir, ran ./secondlife and then stayed up till 5:00 am. My desktop is Edgy Eft with an older nvidia card. It connects to a router which connects to an old computer acting as a firewall, and from there to the internet. The linux client worked fine for me all night, never crashing. Too bad in a way because I'm beat today.

Re:Dangerous precedent being set

[acsinc]

Two strings walk into a bar. The first strong goes up to the bar tender and says "Give me a beer". The second string goes up to the bar and says "Give me a beeriomc3#@%c()". The first string then says to the bar tender "You'll have to excuse my friend here, he isn't null terminated."

Re:Dangerous precedent being set

[Anonymous Coward]

Precedents are not only created by court action, they are created by uses and habits socially accepted, so if it became an habit to emits proceed and persist letters they will end creating a precedent

Re:Dangerous precedent being set

[Anonymous Coward]

Works fine on my Dell Inspiron 8600 laptop with an ATI Mobility video device and Gentoo Linux.
It rocks and is very stable - only the record movie to disk and in-world movie are not implemented fully yet!

Re:Dangerous precedent being set

[FishWithAHammer]

Those "occasional crashes" manage to HARD FREEZE my Linux machine. It won't respond to anything, even the Dark Secret Incantations, to unwedge it.

The Linux client is abhorrent.

The Obvious Response...

[darkonc]

The Get A First Life people need to find a lawyer to slam Linden Labs for denying him work, and suggesting that he could get an injunction against the 'proceed and permit' letter under `restraint of trade` laws.

Re:The Obvious Response...

[jd]

Oh, I can think of others. Is the sense of humour strict? If not, then the letter is false advertising. Is the act of rejecting an invitation a cease and desist of the parody (for once rejected, it is no longer parody but being parodied)? Is it even lawful for a lawyer to have a sense of humour?

Isn't it sad ...

[gone_bush]

that we are commenting on the application of common sense.

Re:Isn't it sad ...

[ookabooka]

What are you talking about? This is slashdot! Land of the geeks and nerds who spend hours formulating arguments to debate trivial things that can be pages long; anything from the difference between geeks and nerds, the proper use of a semicolon (is this sentence correct?) to Java vs. C++ (apples and oranges, there I finished it, don't bother debating).

In all seriousness, that is why I love slashdot, you get to see all sorts of opinions and as long as the arguments aren't inflammatory and make a bit of sense, its almost certain to get modded up regardless of whether it adheres to the norm or not.

Re:Isn't it sad ...

[simm1701]

you forgot to mention emacs and vi!

Lighten up people, it's a joke

[melikamp]

What's with all the lawyer bashing and paranoia? These guys are clearly making fun of him. Just because the person is a lawyer, doesn't mean he is out to rip you off. There are plenty of good lawyers around. In fact, most lawyers wouldn't do something unethical just because it pays so handsomely well.

Because most lawyers are dead.

Ah, haha, I just couldn't resist...

Re:Lighten up people, it's a joke

[98jonesd]

Because most lawyers are dead.

Has Netcraft confirmed this?

Re:Lighten up people, it's a joke

[smyle]

As a friend of mine (who IS a lawyer) says:

"95% of the lawyers give the rest a bad name."

brilliant

[illuminatedwax]

Trademarks need to be fought for, otherwise they are useless. This is actually IMHO a very brilliant move by Linden to maintain their hold on their trademarks without being a complete asshole about it.

Re:brilliant

[supersat]

Agreed. If you read the letter, at the very bottom, they grant a license to use the parody logo on products sold at the CafePress store, just in case one is needed. For example, someone wanting to use the proper trademark could convince the court that such commercial activity wasn't fair use, and that a license was needed, and since Linden Labs didn't enforce or license the mark, it should be invalidated. This covers their ass while still allowing the parody.

Great PR

[BuR4N]

How ever came up with the respons at Linden Labs should get a bonus, turing something that would have been negative news into something both funny, positive and yet still manage to defened their tradmark.

About the adds on the site

[wellingj]

Did any one else see the google adds for Second Life on the First Life web site?
Did that happen before or after the letter?

Re:About the adds on the site

[Anonymous Coward]

Did any one else see the google adds for Second Life on the First Life web site?

Did they have to run two banners side by side for that to work?

Re:About the adds on the site

[Rob T Firefly]

I believe the Google ads were there the first time I saw that page, which was before the letter from Linden. It makes sense that Google would cough up Second-Life-related ads for that page, since it doesn't have any subject matter beyond a Second Life spoof to base AdSense on.

Good law, not just good humour

[john-da-luthrun]

This is actually quite smart from a legal point of view. Once Second Life had decided not to go down the road of trying to sue the parody site into oblivion - a wise decision given the PR meltdown such cases tend to cause - it then had a choice.

If it ignored the parody site, that could dilute or otherwise weaken its trade mark rights, making it harder to take action against truly problematic infringement in future. However, by sending a "permit-and-proceed" letter, it not only gets some positive PR for taking a pragmatic and humorous approach - it also transforms the parody site from a trademark-diluting independent endeavour into something that is, in effect, licensed by Second Life. This means they can still be seen to have asserted their trade mark rights rather than allowing the parody site to continue without any intervention at all.

A similar position can arise in relation to land, at least under English law. If someone encroaches on your land for a sufficiently long period of time (12+ years) and you do nothing about it one way or another, you can lose your rights in the land (many people living near railway lines have extended their gardens to the edge of the line by these means). However, if you say to the encroacher, "Oh, that's fine, carry on, I don't mind, you have my permission", then that turns it into a licence, and they cannot then claim "adverse possession" against you later.

I think...

[jonfr]

I think the creators of second live should get a first live. This is also a DMCA abuse at higest levels.

Lawyers and Sense of Humor?

[JRHelgeson]

Corporations with a sense of humor, and lawyers with common sense? Wow: Second Life really is a fantasy world.

Anything is better...

[revolu7ion]

...than /. stories about flying genitalia

Re: Little Known Facts

[Anonymous Coward]

Mickey stopped eating children in the late forties, when he stopped gaining weight.
That's why they got the dog.

Re:Taken out of context

[Technician]

This license may be modified, addended, or revoked at any time by Linden Lab in its sole discretion.


This was taken out of context. It simply is in refrence to the online store selling items with the modified logo. If the site creator got out of line with the products with the modified logo, they simply reserve the right to revoke the license to use the logo. The fact they granted a license to use the mofified logo is without fees or royalty payments is very gracious.

Try using the Mickey Mouse logo in a modified form on your website in a paradoy and sell products with the logo. I doubt the Disney lawyers have a sense of humor regarding selling products with a Mickey logo.

I've always liked the lindens

[OfficeSubmarine]

Despite never being able to quite get myself into a frame of mind where I'd enjoy second life, I've always liked the management. They've always seemed oddly sane, given not only the industry, but the fringe subset they've founded.

Smart lawyers and dim lawyers

[Flying pig]

The letter (and some of the resulting comments) remind me that there are dim lawyers, smart lawyers, and truly smart lawyers. Linden Labs can obviously afford truly smart lawyers.

Remember, a lawyer is paid to advise you on your legal interests. A merely smart lawyer knows what plays well in court. A truly smart lawyer knows that public opinion is also a court, and that the best interests of the client involve playing well there as well. The RIAA merely has smart lawyers; they are trying to spread compliance through fear but generate reams of bad press in the process. At the other end of the scale, I once heard of a case in which another US industry body was trying to prevent a foreign firm gaining a foothold by bending a number of rules. A truly smart firm of lawyers reviewed the evidence and sent out a single letter (which I have seen) which caused the sudden collapse of the opposition. It spelled out the evidence, the laws they believed had been broken, the action they could take, and the resulting publicity. My belief is that where there is a real case, this is usually what happens.

Re:Smart lawyers and dim lawyers

[91degrees]

Second Life is run by geeks, and I bet they read Slashdot. They know full well what will turn their customers away. I bet they have explicit instructions for their legal team not to C&D anyone without express permission from the owners.

I would like to see more of this;

[Anonymous Coward]

But of course, if everyone did it, it would be neither funny or refreshing.

Secondlife.com down?!

[nmg196]

Is it just me or is secondlife.com slashdotted or otherwise down? It's not even linked to from the article but we can't get to it from here.

Re:Secondlife.com down?!

[LoganTeamX]

Having a meltdown are we? Just log into your FirstLife and go grab a latte.

Re:Secondlife.com down?!

[notthe9]

I can get there right now. They seem to be performing maintainance this morning, and that might have resulted in the website being down earlier.

Re:Secondlife.com down?!

[Dagda]

I'm a second lifer :-) and Wednesday's are their normal upgrade/maintenance day.

Re: Little Known Facts

[Andrew Kismet]

Wait, which dog? Goofy or Pluto?

An ancient historical precedent...

[Captain Sarcastic]

Aristophanes wrote a play titled "The Clouds," in which he lambasted the state of education in ancient Athens. In the process, he also lampooned Socrates, who was depicted as one of the corrupters of youth... even though public opinion at the time considered him no such thing.

Socrates attended the production of the play... and laughed as uproariously as anyone else at his on-stage caricature.

Mind you, he might not have had the same remedies available as today had he been thoroughly offended by the play, but the big thing was that the concept of "grin and bear it" was known then. Too bad it seems to be unfashionable these days.

Am I the only one who suspects this is marketing?

[elrous0]

The "offending" sight seems awfully slim. I get the sense that this whole exchange might be a bit of a publicity ploy to promote Second Life.

-Eric

Re:Am I the only one who suspects this is marketin

[merc]

The "offending" sight seems awfully slim. I get the sense that this whole exchange might be a bit of a publicity ploy to promote Second Life.

That's an interesting thought, and if so then I would guess it would be an employee of Linden Labs. However after looking it over I'm inclined to think that perhaps you might be only half right -- that while it's a publicity maneuver (and a very clever one at that) it was designed to protect their intellectual property at the same time.

The creator of the getalifefirst.com website is in a different city than Linden Labs, registered through a different registrar, on different nameservers and different IP netblocks. While I admit none of this means anything it does mitigate my suspicions.

Lawyers or Marketers?

[Anonymous Coward]

Marketers in lawyer's clothing.

Don't be so crabby about it.

[abb3w]

Dude, the little mermaid is like 12 years old...

The movie came out in 1989; ergo, the Little Mermaid will be 18 this November. All in all, I'd say that's close enough. Here's to "dabbling with watercolors"!

surprising!

[Warshadow]

Wow, it's nice to see a company not scream, "we're going to sue!" When someone else does a parody of them. Kudos to Linden Labs for this.

Cheers for SL

[Anonymous Coward]

Shopping for trashy lingerie, hanging out with shemales, werewolves and vampires with no real goal or purpose for hours on end is bad?

Step 2.

[Kaenneth]

Step 2: Don't be evil.

Good for Linden labs!

[Anonymous Coward]

Bravo! Bravo! A THOUSAND times Bravo!
At last, some entity that has the balls, forsight, and fortitude to just say NO to these greedy, self-serving, sleazy, low-life, opportunistic, slime-ball, bastard, regurgi-funk lawyers that want nothing less than for every living person on this planet to sue every other person on this planet, living or deceased.