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Court Rules GPS Tracking Legal For Law Officers

Via Engadget (which does a good job of explaining the case), an anonymous reader passed us a link to a GPS Tracking Systems Blog post. The site, which reports regularly on GPS-related news, has word that on-the-sly GPS tracking is legal for officers of the law. A 7th circuit court of appeals ok'd the use of a GPS device in apprehending a criminal. Though the defendant's lawyers argued on fourth amendment grounds, the judge found GPS tracking did not warrant an 'unlawful search and seizure'. The judge did warn against 'wholesale surveillance' of the population, though, so ... that's some comfort.

20 of 293 comments (clear)

  1. It ok'd the WARRANTLESS use of GPS by KingSkippus · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The summary left out the most important tidbit of information in this case: The police did not have a warrant for their actions.

    If the police have reasonable cause to suspect that someone is up to no good and they go through due process to get a warrant, I have no problem with them using GPS as a tool in their arsenal of crime-fighting weapons.

    However, I have a major issue with the police, with no reason to think I might be doing something wrong and no warrant to back it up, putting a GPS receiver on my car just in case I do do something wrong.

    The judge did warn against 'wholesale surveillance' of the population, though.

    The judge in this case was a complete and total idiot. He can warn all he wants to, but he just set a legal precedent that says they can if they want to. There is now absolutely nothing stopping the police from GPS-bugging anyone at any time for any reason, or even with a complete lack of a reason. Who here thinks that even though the police can GPS-bug people without a warrant that they simply will choose not to do so because the right thing to do, in the spirit of the Constitution, is to get a warrant first?

    Yeah, I don't either. If you give the government that kind of power, it has shown throughout history—including many incidents in recent U.S. history—that it will not only use it, but push it even further.

    If I recall correctly, the rationale behind the original decision was that police can follow people the old-fashioned way—a stakeout—without a warrant or probable cause, and that GPS-bugging them is legally no different, because people should have no reasonable expectation of privacy while driving on public roads.

    Well, I'm sorry, I vehemently disagree. The resources required to conduct a stakeout demand that the police don't just do it all willy-nilly for no reason, and anyone who expects to be electronically tracked when there is no reason or cause to do so is an idiot. I know it, you know it, the police know it, this judge knows it, but with the swing of a gavel, he just legalized the excruciatingly stupid idea that you don't have any privacy on the roads. Some people think that talking about Big Brother watching us is an exaggeration, but when I read about stuff like this, it's really hard to see much of a difference.

    If there's any justice to be had from this, this idiot judge's decision will be overturned at some point.

    1. Re:It ok'd the WARRANTLESS use of GPS by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 5, Insightful
      There is now absolutely nothing stopping the police from GPS-bugging anyone at any time for any reason, or even with a complete lack of a reason. Who here thinks that even though the police can GPS-bug people without a warrant that they simply will choose not to do so because the right thing to do, in the spirit of the Constitution, is to get a warrant first?

      What's worse, would EZ-Pass or On*Star (I have neither system - I'd rather bleed to death at the side of the road after an accident than lose my privacy 100% of the time) data obtained without a warrant now be admissible in court? I suspect that the cops might not even have to leave the comfort of their offices to attach the GPS bug if they play the game right.

      -b.

    2. Re:It ok'd the WARRANTLESS use of GPS by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 4, Insightful
      They will probably just put something on the bottom of your car and GPS track you to where you're chop shop is.

      Well, if they have probable cause to believe that crimes are being committed (existence of a chop shop parting out stolen cars), they can tell it to a judge and prosecutor and the judge will no doubt be happy to give a warrant authorizing tracking of the car.

      -b.

    3. Re:It ok'd the WARRANTLESS use of GPS by PieSquared · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well, because if they get a warrant and they're wrong... there is a record of it. Someone can point and say "90% of the people you bug aren't even accused of crimes!" With no warrant, it doesn't come out if they don't want it to.

      Obviously I agree that they should be required to get a warrant, so that they can be held accountable for watching people for the hell of it.

      --
      Does a line appended to your comment give your post meaning in and of itself, or only in relation to those without?
    4. Re:It ok'd the WARRANTLESS use of GPS by HomelessInLaJolla · · Score: 3, Insightful

      > I can very much see the police's side of this

      That is a beautiful statement of the common public misconception (which is often well groomed by government whining).

      This isn't about seeing the police side of this. This is about the legitimate derivation of power within a Constitutional Republic. History is filled with dire examples of why it is best for the citizenry to disallow authority for the sake of political or legal ease. At the same time there are no lighthouse examples of why a well controlled government would be a Bad Thing.

      --
      the NPG electrode was replaced with carbon blac
    5. Re:It ok'd the WARRANTLESS use of GPS by JesseL · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Why the hell would you need a warrant for tracking a criminal with GPS?


      You need to back up and reexamine your premise there. In the US nobody is a criminal until they've been convicted by a court. If you think they might be engaging in criminal behavior, what's wrong with having to get a warrant?

      This isn't making a mountain out of a molehill, it's squashing the molehill before it becomes a mountain.
      --
      "Prefiero morir de pie que vivir siempre arrodillado!"
    6. Re:It ok'd the WARRANTLESS use of GPS by HomelessInLaJolla · · Score: 3, Insightful

      > Most have GPS incorporated

      Yeah. We tried to warn cell phone users about that. Most of them couldn't see past the "Ooh! Aah! New nifty social status gadget!" mentality.

      > they're all terrorists anyway

      Every single cell phone call relayed through a satellite counts as an international transmission and is eligible for government surveillance.

      Even if you manage to post to Slashdot through only American servers the moment someone in Canada reads your post it becomes an international transmission and is eligible for government surveillance.

      Forget the media dog'n'pony show complete with rank'n'file excuses and canned questions. Fact: The US Federal Government is out of control. Fact: They can justify anything they want at any time. Fact: If you notice it you will either be sent on a 5150 as "paranoid", shipped off to Gitmo, or you will meet a brick wall of denial.

      Fact: The only economically viable solution is complete and utter dismantling of the Federal Government. Failure to do so will inevitably result in pi55ing off someone who _is_ crazy enough to start a real war or execute a series, not just one, but a whole string of 9/11 style strategic attacks.

      It's only a matter of time.

      --
      the NPG electrode was replaced with carbon blac
    7. Re:It ok'd the WARRANTLESS use of GPS by CrashPoint · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Fact: The US Federal Government is out of control. Fact: They can justify anything they want at any time. Fact: If you notice it you will either be sent on a 5150 as "paranoid", shipped off to Gitmo, or you will meet a brick wall of denial.

      Fact: The only economically viable solution is complete and utter dismantling of the Federal Government. Failure to do so will inevitably result in pi55ing off someone who _is_ crazy enough to start a real war or execute a series, not just one, but a whole string of 9/11 style strategic attacks.

      Opinions: 2
      Unsupported Assertions: 3
      Facts: 0

      Knock it off with the "Fact:" crap. You're not helping.

    8. Re:It ok'd the WARRANTLESS use of GPS by maxume · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'm not really worried about it, etc., but it is only 'simply too much data to store' until it isn't. That is, how long until technology can easily keep up with the data? A year or two?

      The big cell companies have something like 60 million subscribers; to track everybody once a minute, that's something like 4 billion records an hour. So yeah, it's a lot of data, but figure what, 16 bytes for a record, so 64 gigabytes an hour and 11 terabytes a week. So yeah, I don't think that it is something that they would do casually at the moment, but they could very easily be tracking millions of people several times an hour, and given a few years for that 11 terabytes to become more manageable, and well, there ya go.

      (I wasn't careful with the math, so someone jump in if it looks wrong)

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    9. Re:It ok'd the WARRANTLESS use of GPS by HomelessInLaJolla · · Score: 3, Insightful

      > Fact: If you notice it you will either be sent on a 5150 as "paranoid"

      This is a fact. I've proven it through personal experience at least three times.

      > Fact: They can justify anything they want at any time

      That is a fact as evidenced in the news over the last two years.

      > Fact: The only economically viable solution is complete and utter dismantling of the Federal Government

      Proof is available here.

      I don't know why the mods knocked the post down to -1:Flamebait. Apparently they haven't been paying attention to their political studies.

      The US is on a crash course to pi55 someone off royally and start a world war. How many paramilitary groups, which are in fundamental conflict with each other (not to mention all the others around the globe), does our own government fund using our taxpayer dollars?

      This isn't rocket science. This is basic (primative) human behavior and no amount of CNN sugar coating can change it.

      --
      the NPG electrode was replaced with carbon blac
    10. Re:It ok'd the WARRANTLESS use of GPS by T-Ranger · · Score: 5, Insightful

      GPSs can under ideal circumstances accurate down to 30cm. On handheld units, perhaps 10m. So WTF, lets go with that number. Further assume that people never travel faster then 1000km/h, which is about half the speed of a Concorde but still significantly faster then any commercial jet today in service. 1000km/h / 10m = 27.77 hz (maximum relevant data collection cycle) - 3 111.27 cycles/day. Say that they are lazy and they store UTM coordinates as 8 bit strings, thats 15 chars; 15 bits. 32 bit timestamps (which would be stupid, may as well be WTF ever GPS uses), and say 50 chars/bits for some kind of UID, we get 97.... call it 100 bits/user/cycle. Or around 40 kilobytes/day. Say I'm wrong, and off by a factor of 10, and they have no DBAs who know about data encoding. 400 k/day, less then 12mb/month.

      12mb/day is nothing, in the grand scheme of things, if "they" were motivated to do it. And assuming that they use a non-brain dead encoding scheme like I have proposed, and only record position if there is movement, then we are likely down to few mb/years. Cycle the data out so we only record ~100m accuracy, every 30 sec/max (fractions of hz), we are down to few mb/lifetime.

  2. Re:Officer Safety by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 4, Insightful
    I actually see this as being a good thing. It allows officers to follow a suspect without putting themselves in danger or alerting the suspect to being followed.

    That's all good IF they have a warrant to authorize the tracking. The judge's decision essentially opened the door for warrantless surveillance of "suspects" - lack of judicial oversight over police actions isn't a good thing.

    -b.

  3. Re:Thinking about this... by Lithdren · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Let's say if the cops see a stolen car making its way through heavy traffic and they can't safely chase it
    That makes sense. They're tracking the car.

    The police in this case were using the GPS to track the person, through the car. The car itself wasn't at issue. Thats where this all falls apart. If the car was stolen, then they have an argument.
  4. If I find the bug, can I keep it? by radionerd · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If the police abandon their equipment by attaching it to my property does it become part of my property? Any good geek would want a nice new GPS reciever with a magnet on it to play with, wouldn't they? I've had run ins with the cops in the past, I inspect my vehicles from time to time. So far I haven't found anything new, but who knows?

  5. What about personal GPS Nav system??? by tillerman35 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Let's say I already have a GPS navigation system in my car which records my progress. Does this mean that the police no longer need a warrant to seize the tracking information? Since I supposedly have no right to privacy regarding the path which I took, how can I have any right to privacy for an instrument that records it, regardless of whether the instrument belongs to me, the police, or some third party? Ergo, the police no longer need a warrant to obtain the tracking information from rental car agencies. No slippery slope here, folks. Just a small step down a well-lit path.

  6. Re:Public Road vs. Privacy of one's home by FredMenace · · Score: 4, Insightful

    There are several differences. For one thing, the car is still private property. Do the police have the right to just start messing with and essentially modifying your car without permission (from you or a judge)? I mean, if someone ELSE crawled under your car and attached a GPS to it and started tracking your location, should that be legal? If not, why would we let the police do it without a warrant?

    In addition, the tracking does not somehow automatically stop when the car EXITS public streets and enters private property. This is pretty much the equivalent of tagging someone's actual body with a nano-GPS device. Sure, the police could physically walk behind you when you're in public, but should they have the right to know what room you are in inside your house, at all times? And should they be able to know your location 24x7, from the comfort of their office chair, without even needing to convince a judge you're a likely suspect in a crime?

    I also do think the fact that this makes it much cheaper and easier to do IS significant. It's kind of like privacy on the Internet: lots of things that have always been "public knowledge" have in actually tended to be fairly private due to obscurity. Now, they can suddenly be instantly accessible to anyone in the world, often showing up unbidden in unrelated searches. Such changes in ease of access do indeed call for changes in laws regarding accessibility and privacy of information.

  7. ^BumP by TubeSteak · · Score: 3, Insightful

    There's two ways to think of things:
    Crime Control
    Due Process

    The quick version is that crime control means giving police wide latitude to do their job. If they 'know' someone is guilty, they shouldn't have to jump through hoops to arrest & jail them. Due process says what it means: all the i's have to be dotted & the t's have to be crossed.

    Someone who says"I can very much see the police's side of this" is leaning towards the Crime Control school of thought, which is directly contrary to the system of law setup in These United States.

    --
    [Fuck Beta]
    o0t!
    1. Re:^BumP by HomelessInLaJolla · · Score: 4, Insightful

      > Crime Control

      I always assert that the rest is pre-empted by choice of the definition of the word "crime". We don't have too many criminals. We have too many laws.

      If we could refine our system of laws then, in instances such as this story, the appropriate use of power wouldn't be questionable because there'd be no excuse to abuse it in other more borderline situations.

      --
      the NPG electrode was replaced with carbon blac
    2. Re:^BumP by CheshireCatCO · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I take offense with that characterization and would go so far as to say that you're trying to divine a lot from a simple statement. And the statement is pretty simple: the police, by and large, are decent people trying to do a job. They're not power-mad little dictators, they're trying to protect people. Now, that doesn't mean we don't need to check them, because we surely do. But when they request a power with new technology, I'm willing to listen to their reasons with the assumption that they're sincere. I'm not always willing to grant them that power, however. (In fact, I tend to lean the other way. You might want to recalibrate your magic people stereotyper there.)

      All I said, and all that was meant, was that I can see the police's case here. Using a GPS tracker is not, in may respects, different from just following a person around. (Which they are allowed to do, as far as have ever heard.) But, as I noted, there are some differences that make me balk and not really feel that they're quite the same and that the tracker is going too far.

      In short, next time, try reading more careful and *not* leaping to assumptions. You'll save yourself some embarassment.

  8. Free nations should be tracking the cops by wardk · · Score: 4, Insightful

    the cops are on the public dole, how do we know they aren't wasting our dollars messing around on duty?

    track all the cops all the time, record everyting they say or do.

    then track politicians next. then everyone on the public payroll.

    they work for us, it's about time we put the hammer down on their screwing around on duty