Windows Expert Jumps Ship

An anonymous reader writes to let us know that Scott Finnie, Computerworld's Windows expert, has given the final verdict to Windows after 3 months of using a Mac. And the verdict is: "Sayonara." Finnie is known to readers here for his many reviews of Vista as it progressed to release. Quoting: "If you give the Mac three months, as I did, you won't go back either. The hardest part is paying for it — everything after that gets easier and easier. Perhaps fittingly, it took me the full three-month trial period to pay off my expensive MacBook Pro. But the darn thing is worth every penny."

Comments

Lots of folks making the switch

[BWJones]

There are some issues certainly of migrating from one platform to any other platform, but it has been interesting to see a number of long time Windows users in hard core sciences with entrenched work flows that made them very dependent upon Windows to make the switch. When I joined the current group I was in, I essentially catalyzed a complete switch of our lab that is now percolating to many other labs in the group. These switchers have not and are not switching because I kept hitting them over the head with how great the platform is. Rather, they kept seeing the amazing presentations I gave with the help of apps like Keynote, or how easy it was to host a number of high traffic websites from a single OS X machine (including my blog), our lab site, and Webvision among a number of others. Or even how easy it was for me to replace an SGI, a Windows machine and a older Mac with a single incredibly powerful workstation running OS X. The new MacPros are one of the most amazingly powerful systems for the dollar that I've ever used making scientific calculations quick and easy.

Re:Lots of folks making the switch

[hollywoodb]

Many of the labs around my university's campus use Mac machines, but they're greatly outnumbered by cheap Dell and Gateway systems. Most of the Mac systems are older eMacs. I often see the PCs sitting there with a piece of paper taped to the screen with something along the lines of "Sorry, this computer is down for maintenance". I have yet to see that on a Mac system. When I asked why there are fewer Mac systems on campus I was told it is cheaper to replace the PCs when the upgrade cycle rolls around. I have no problem believing that, but I'm willing to bet that nobody is keeping track of downtime and man hours required to keep the PCs operational between upgrade cycles when they calculate the cost of their Mac vs their PC systems.

Personally, I'm a linux user across all my systems. I'm fully aware that most of my friends and family are not prepared to be running linux or *BSD as their main OS, but I did manage to convert one of my longtime Windows-using cousins to a MacBook. He's never been happier. Strangely neither he nor I have managed to convince anyone else in our circles to switch from Windows/PC. Hell, I can't even convince some people to try OpenOffice.org before they go drop a couple c-notes on the latest Microsoft Office.

Maybe I'm a crummy salesman, or perhaps my message would be taken with more interest if I had a black turtleneck and white earbuds. Either way I wish people would stop calling me because their crummy greeting card creation program quit printing a certain color, or their crummy spyware software won't remove a certain portion of spyware.

Re:Lots of folks making the switch

[pigeontheory]

The reason for a switch should only be for the 'uses' of the platform. If you're comparing Mac vs. Vista when it comes to video editing, I'm sure Mac's arsenal of video editing software is much more usable than any Vista Video Software (God forbid a Vista Movie Maker). If gaming is your cup of tea, there's no reason to switch to a platform who's variety of games doesn't compare to a Windows machine. However, as for casual users (web browsing, document writing), I don't think there's a clear cut reason to switch. I think you'll find arguments on both sides of the fence.

Re:Lots of folks making the switch

[rwven]

"Microsoft Tax?" What do you expect? In order to use OSX you have to own apple hardware. Parents buying computers for their kids for college/hs are going to care about one thing: Price.

You can pay $1300 for a mac...or you can spend $700 for a PC. Which do you THINK parents are going to buy? Parents aside, what do you think MOST people are going to go with.

Apples decision to limit their OS to their hardware is what is killing their adoption rate. If I could buy OSX for my PC...i probably would, just so I could have both. But I don't want to have to spend twice as much on my computer just to run an OS that TECHNICALLY doesn't do as much as Windows does...

Linux *generally* isn't as mature enough or well known enough to land on retail PCs either.

That leaves Windows. Apple has the solution but refuses to bend over and pick it up. Linux might have it someday, but right now most people lack the technical knowledge to use it...

It's apples own fault that more people don't pick it up. If Dell were able to sell a PC and offer the users the choice of OSX or Windows...I bet with Apple's marketing you'd get LOADS of people adopting it for the first time.

Re:Lots of folks making the switch

[Flavio]

"Microsoft Tax?" What do you expect?

I expect to go to any computer retailer and be able to buy a computer without Windows pre-installed. That's all I want -- I don't dispute anything you wrote.

It's apples own fault that more people don't pick it up. If Dell were able to sell a PC and offer the users the choice of OSX or Windows...I bet with Apple's marketing you'd get LOADS of people adopting it for the first time.

Yeah, but that's just the thing. Microsoft isn't pleased when vendors start selling machines without Windows (or worse, with Linux). Dell and IBM get away with this on a limited basis, but even then it's tricky.

Re:Lots of folks making the switch

[TrancePhreak]

My friend also works in a university in IT. They have mostly Windows machines and a small number of Macs. The Macs there require less maintenance because hardly anybody ever uses them.

Yay for annecdotal evidence.

Re:Lots of folks making the switch

[BWJones]

Thanks Nerftoe,

Yeah, I'm not too worried about this as I've been moving mission critical functions off of this server and it is now principally hosting the low traffic lab site and my (much higher traffic) blog. The performance is also actually pretty good and I've had a bit of fun watching loads in the past when an article has been linked on BoingBoing or one of the other higher volume sites. It also turns out that available bandwidth is the biggest factor in performance as the graphics intensive Webvision site used to be hosted on an old 233 Mhz G3 iMac and it could sustain loads of up to 200k visits from unique visitors per day. At least that was the highest load I ever saw on that machine. It is now being hosted on a Mac Mini and the content is being made freely available to any and all interested parties, so traffic on that can only do Webvision and our lab site good in terms of ranking and such, especially given our move into certain scientific areas like metabolomics.

What I got irritated about was the DOS attack that appeared to start quickly on a couple of the servers, only to terminate soon after my posting about the attack. It was not terribly well coordinated and appeared to be coming from two IPs only, but it still gets under ones skin a bit. No real damage was done and the machines were able to continue serving up their goodness, so it will likely not be escalated.

Thanks for the feedback though and best regards,

Bryan aka BWJones

Re:Lots of folks making the switch

[jcgf]

yeah, if your time is worth nothing it's free. Typed from my Athlon64 running FreeBSD.

Re:Lots of folks making the switch

[kfg]

You can pay $1300 for a mac...or you can spend $700 for a PC. Which do you THINK parents are going to buy? Parents aside, what do you think MOST people are going to go with.

Anecdotal observation says they'll go for an iBook. That's what I see something like 90% of the college kids hauling to the coffeeshops.

If Dell were able to sell a PC and offer the users the choice of OSX or Windows...I bet. . .

Apple would be plunged into driver hell. I've got two windows machines on the bench right now with sound cards that don't work. One with an Ethernet card that won't work and one with a serial port that's conflicting with the sound card. I'll get it all sorted, of course, but it will take some hours. I'm no Mac fanboy and there some things about OSX that really torque me off, but I'm still planning to build my small recording studio around a Mac mini, because when I plug the audio gear into the family shared iBook it really does all just work.

And that's worth a few bucks.

KFG

Re:Lots of folks making the switch

[L0rdJedi]

The "average Windows user" (lets think Dell here) doesn't spend any time doing any of the things you mentioned. Antivirus, antispyware, and a personal firewall come with the machine on a trial period (Norton Internet Security 2005). Sure, it's not the best thing in the world, but it does a good enough job. They get notified to purchase a full copy, they do by entering their information, and it's done. There's no downloading of anything required. Hell, they even have the option to purchase it when they order the computer. Then it either comes preinstalled or they can install it with little to no hastle. Patches are installed by automatic update (Windows defaults to on).

The "average" Windows user isn't the ones downloading their apps. Those are mostly the power users that build their machines and just download a new copy of spybot anytime they need it. Those are probably also the same people who run Kazaa, Limewire, and every other p2p spyware infested program on the planet.

Re:Lots of folks making the switch

[kestasjk]

Yeah, but that's just the thing. Microsoft isn't pleased when vendors start selling machines without Windows (or worse, with Linux). Dell and IBM get away with this on a limited basis, but even then it's tricky.

It's tricky to sell machines without an OS because MS have some kind of conspiracy going, not because consumers generally just want the machine to come with the current Windows OS?

Re:Lots of folks making the switch

[LordEd]

First you said:

...the [mini-mac] cost is around $600 or a little more. That's actually less than what I've been quoting people lately who ask me to put a decent gaming PC together

Then you said:

a Mac Mini is not a good choice for running games

So what you are telling us is that a gaming system costs more than a non-gaming system whether it is a mac or a PC.

Re:Lots of folks making the switch

[drsmithy]

I think the problem most Slashdotters have is that they can't conceive of building the type of machines Apple sells.

No, the problem is that most Slashdotters - indeed, most "enthusiasts" - want a machine Apple refuses to sell: a single processor box without an integrated LCD, a replacable video card (plus another vacant x16 slot, even with only x8 signalling) and room for two 3.5" hard disks. In fact, I suspect most would be happy with just having a replacable video card and no integrated LCD (I certainly would). So - depending on your perspective - either a headless iMac (which people have been clamouring for since the original iMac was released) or a "Mini Mac Pro".

There are 2 - 4 gaping holes in Apple's product lineup. This is one (or two, depending) of them.

You can't even configure that machine to be comparable to the iMac. To get in the same ballpark, you've got to jump up to an XPS 410, up the CPU to 2.13 GHz, add the 2007WFP and the Radeon 1300 Pro. Now you're at $1487, and you still have half the cache, a slower graphics card, no firewire, no wi-fi, no bluetooth, no webcam, and no remote. And it'll still take up much more space in your office!

An E520 upgraded to these specs is $1229. While it _does_ lack some features the iMac has, on the flipside you have a machine with infinitely more expandability. This may or may not be important to you - but if it is, the iMac simply cannot deliver, nor can any Apple machine until you hit the $2000+ Mac Pro.

This is the problem Apple has. In the tiny niche that their hardware targets, it's a fairly good deal - but if you have needs that are even slightly outside that niche, Apple has nothing for you.

However, if you try to match the basic specs, and a couple of the accessories (ie: no consumer machine today should ship without wifi!) you're not going to save a lot of money over the Mac.

Again, you may or may not "save a lot of money". If you want a machine that's good for gaming, for example, nothing Apple has really delivers until you hit the Mac Pro - a $2200ish minimum buy-in (and that's without a screen). So, yes, while you might get roughly the same PC as an iMac for roughly the same cost, when you want to upgrade the video card 12 months down the track to play new games, on a PC it's a few hundreds dollars worth of upgrade, on the iMac it's impossible (without buying whatever the latest iMac is).

(I would also argue that there's no reason whatsoever for compulsory wifi on non-laptop computers.)

Re:Lots of folks making the switch

[zeno_2]

Another thing they would do is if lets say Dell sold a machine without Windows, they would have to pay Microsoft for a copy of Windows anyway.

Re:Lots of folks making the switch

[mrchaotica]

He didn't say "multiple operating systems," he just said "not Windows." I imagine the overhead of having an extra build-to-order option would be offset by the savings caused by not having to install anything at all on the machine's hard drive.

Re:Lots of folks making the switch

[qwertphobia]

(I would also argue that there's no reason whatsoever for compulsory wifi on non-laptop computers.) I use wireless in my Mac Pro. I help manage the wireless network at my institution, and it's cheaper to put a wireless card in my desktop than it is to get another laptop.

Maybe someone doesn't want to run an Ethernet cable across the room and around the corner to the only telephone jack in the apartment. Instead they might get a wireless solution. But they use a desktop.

I haven't checked for a while, but I used to be able to see my neigbor's HP printer-scanner-fax on their wireless network. My neighbor and I might have similar reasons but different motivations to put a wireless interface in a desktop.

Re:Lots of folks making the switch

[MightyYar]

Are you suggesting that all Windows' problems are due to third parties? Does the mac not have third parties, then? To Windows, EVERYTHING is a 3rd party. The motherboard, the video card, even the mouse and keyboard. Microsoft makes very little hardware, so everything is 3rd party. On a Mac, only certain peripherals are 3rd party, and it is very simple for Mac vendors to test those peripherals with every Mac currently worth supporting. Personally, I have noted that my PC (Windows) problems have shrunk to almost zero since I started spending a little extra money on the components. Nice case, motherboard, video card, etc. The "cheap PC" that people keep writing about on here is a nightmare. I always thought that Windows was a steaming pile of crap, but it turns out that it was in fact my hardware.

That said, I'm still a Mac fan and prefer that OS. Also, despite quite a bit of looking and a willingness to spend the $$$, I could not find a PC case as attractive as my G5. The Antec P150 that I settled on is nice, but still looks like a jazzed up generic PC case... it has a lot of really nice features, but still isn't as well-laid-out as the G5. Even the Apple "clone" cases are just superficial clones - the interior isn't laid out any different than any other ATX case. However, I would recommend that Antec case to anyone - it's cool and quiet and pretty good looking (IMHO).

Re:Lots of folks making the switch

[Doctor Memory]

It's tricky to sell machines without an OS because MS have some kind of conspiracy going, not because consumers generally just want the machine to come with the current Windows OS? kinda. Think about it — the #1 (and probably nos 2-5, too) reason people don't buy a Mac is the price. Now imagine you popped over to the Dell site and saw that you could get a bottom-end machine for $299 with XP Media Edition on it OR: the exact same machine with no OS for $199. How many people would elect to just re-use the same OS they've been using for the last 4-5 years to save $100? At that price point, I'd guess about 99.44%. But Dell doesn't do that, do they? Nope, because MS would either raise their OEM license fees (oh, sorry, "reduce their OEM discount") or restrict the number of licenses they were granted until Dell caved. I've heard that Dell does in fact sell some systems with no OS, but apparently they're not a lot cheaper and (allegedly) it's hard to find them on their web site. Not like a straight "This model: $699. Add $139 for Windows."

Heh, can you imagine: "This model: $299. Add $139 for Windows. Add $29 for Novell Linux." Why do you think we don't see Dell or HP doing something like that?

Re:Lots of folks making the switch

[7Prime]

Actually, this is EXACTLY what Apple was exploring in the mid-90s that almost made them go under... the 5-billion different option lineup. Where I do agree they have a few major holes in their lineup (I'm currently in the market for a new mac, and I really would like a mid-range stand-alone, myself, so I can undertsand the frustration), it's simply that those holes need to be filled, NOT that their whole business strategy is wrong. On the contrary, from a marketing standpoint, what they're doing is common sense: they're establishing a few base models with descreate name-recognition that they can advertise without spewing out a bunch of forgetable spec numbers.

What they have is a hierarchical lineup. When you get down to it, there are quite a few different computers to choose from: 2 Minis, 4 iMacs, 3 MacBooks, 3 MacBook Pros, and then the built-to-order Mac Pros. That's a lot of options, but from an ease of naming standpoint, there are only 5 discreate lines. Getting rid of the criptic numbered-names was the best thing that happened to Apple.

There are a couple things they could do to gain a few % more market share, although it might lose them money: take the minis down a notch to $400, $500, and $600, and create a headless line in the $1000-$1500 range (this would directly compete with the iMac line, but it might entice a few people onboard who are looking for lower-priced, expandable systems). It really bothered me when they desolved their $500 line, but I'm sure their marketting anylists found that it was more profitable to do so.

Putting in a lower-end "built-to-order" jeapordizes their model recognition. Undoubtedly, MANY people would go on and hand-pick their specs. And then you have a bunch of computers that look the same, but function differently, and create no differentiating model recognition. Model recognition is one of the most important aspects of marketting, and Apple are doing everything they can to hold on to that.

The bottom line is that Apple aren't low in market share due to their product line, or even their pricing (seriously, the $300-$500 PC market isn't really that substantial), it's due to tradition, stigma, and fear of change. People are used to Windows and some even equate user-friendliness to being "hippy-dippy" or "wussy". Another big one is that many corporations strike up deals with Microsoft. I work for clear channel. It's gotten so bad that if there's a microsoft version of a type of application, we are FORCED to use it. Litterally, it is AGAINST POLICY to use Firefox (I got chewed out for downloading it), because they've struck a deal with Microsoft, and in return, they get software that allows them to track employee's internet habits. It's really creepy out there, and some of the reasoning is extremely fucked up, but Microsoft has made it VERY difficult for people involved in corporations to switch away from them.

Re:Lots of folks making the switch

[BlueStraggler]

This is the problem Apple has. In the tiny niche that their hardware targets, it's a fairly good deal

You would be referring to the tiny niche that doesn't build custom boxes?

Re:Lots of folks making the switch

[Darby]

)As opposed to the time the average Windows user spends installing antivirus, antispyware, a personal firewall, dozens of patches, and three sets of activation.

I recently did a Gentoo/MySQL install and an XP install simultaneously. I was done with the Gentoo install *and* imaged that install on the sister machine an hour before I finished getting XP patched and ready to start installing software. Granted, the Gentoo boxes were pretty decent server class machines and the XP machine was a cheap desktop (fresh install, pre SP2 version of XP), but damn.

OpenBSD on a similar desktop machine took 10 minutes for a base install. 10 more to get it configured as a simple failover NAT + firewall (double the total for the failover partner).

Old news

[goto11]

I switch Windows users on a daily basis to Macs... The next switch will be to Linux. Let's see how long it takes until Linuz is ready for Joe Average.

I still miss Windows

[Anonymous Coward]

I have had my Mac G5 for a year now. There are many things which still aren't quite "perfect" enough yet. I am waiting for OS X 10.5 (as I've never been around for a point release) to see if it is an upgrade.

For me I have one goal: Productivity. I'm am a network administrator for a enterprise company. I'm dripping in Windows but at home, I use a Mac. Why? Final Cut Pro and Aperture. That's it! I'm building my photography business and it's growing.

That said I still miss Windows for a few applications and MOSTLY for the keyboard commands (in the OS GUI). Window Key + R + cmd = CLI. On the Mac it's click or Apple + Space + Term + Click.

Lame.

I see Mac and Mac-like products taking over the home desktop. Not the OS but the "utility" aspect of it. iTV and the iPod are nice because they just sit there.

Microsoft can (and should) have the Enterprise desktops (for now).

Of course

[adambha]

Perhaps fittingly, it took me the full three-month trial period to pay off my expensive MacBook Pro. But the darn thing is worth every penny. Of course. Even Jim Allchin said, "I would buy a Mac today if I was not working at Microsoft."

The market preference is shifting...

Re:This is fantastic

[geekoid]

"They would put an end to all of that"
No it wouldn't, Simple economies of scale will tell you that.

BTW, Apples are built to a higher specification then your 750 dollar bosx.

Comparing all the ing equal, then the price is about the same.

Another thing, time is money and not having to deal with the MS issues would more then pay for any difference.

Re:Are you playing any of these:

[Blahbooboo3]

While I think "Foolish choice" is a bit strong, I would like mac but the gaming part keeps me back. If they made a decent headless mac that I could dual boot to play games (i.e with a decent graphics card that is user upgradeable). Yes, I know Imac, but i just don't like this form factor -- I want to be able to upgrade things as I want. Mac Pro is too expensive. If Mac made a mid-range headless computer, I would finally make the jump to mac I think..

He's too kind to UAC...

[argent]

In the first article...

My assessment of UAC is that it's a good idea that is badly implemented, even after recent refinements. I think it will have the opposite of its intended effect on many Vista desktops, where it will deaden users to security risks by asking them too frequently whether they're sure an activity is something they really want to do or allow.

I disagree. It's a bad idea that's badly implemented... and it's not a new idea. Windows has been popping up "I'm about to do something that might be stupid, is that OK?" or "Which stupid mistake do you want me to make now?" dialogs for years now, and the biggest effect they have is to train people to automatically approve security dialogs. As a system administrator I had the same people come to me multiple times saying "Um, Peter, I just clicked 'open' on that popup again and I think I have a virus".

Here's a helpful suggestion for developers. Anytime you're thinking of popping up a dialog like that, ask yourself "how can I make it so the user can *always* cancel the operation", and if there's a way... do that instead. For example, instead of asking the user "Should I automatically open this file you just downloaded in NEW-APPLICATION", consider the possibilities of not automatically opening files at all... give the user a better tool for managing downloads instead.

Oh, and Mac users shouldn't feel smug about this one.

Re:I recently switched

[donutello]

I'm not the original poster, but here are some of the things I don't like about XCode:
- Search is broken. It's virtually impossible to find even all instances of a simple function being used in the open project. I use egrep on the command line instead of the useless XCode search. This extends to XCode being completely unable to find the definition of any function you are looking for. It's a huge productivity killer when more often than not when you ask it to find the definition of a symbol, it gives you the wrong one. Instead, I end up doing an egrep and hand-sifting through the list to find the definition v/s uses.
- The debugger sucks. I can't tell you how many times I've run into the dreaded "gdb timed out while accessing variable value" in the middle of debugging something and had to restart the session because that's the only way out of it. The only workaround I know of is to turn off the Variable View, which makes for a pretty pathetic debugging experience.
- Xcode is very unfriendly to automation. They've fixed this in more recent versions but not completely. It's a PITA to set it up so you can have a single configuration file shared between multiple projects.
- This last one is a relatively minor gripe, but it's annoying that you can't choose the configuration you want to debug in the debugger window. Instead, you need to go to the Build Results window to do that.

Price is my problem...

[stanleypane]

I have to agree on the price issue many people raise. I wouldn't say Apple is expensive if you compare their specs to an equivalent PC, but I'd still say they sell expensive systems.

I do think many people want control over their hardware. The only true desktop Apple offers is the Mac Pro. An entry level Mac Pro comes with two dual core xeon processors. Four cores for a home desktop? Maybe for a professional. But your average Joe isn't going to dump $2500 on a desktop for Mac OS and hardware control combined. They'll buy a cheap PC and configure/upgrade as much as possible. They might even find away to hack OS X onto that machine and save a few bucks. I don't think Apple will go on a legal crusade over the OSX86 market.

If apple gave me a $1500 desktop, I'd jump ship on my next PC purchase. I just built a $1300 Core 2 Duo, 2GB RAM system last month and plan on adding a new monitor for a grand total of $1700.00. I'd never get what I wanted out of a new Mac for that price. I'd get a beefed up iMac. pffft.

Re:Patience

[man_of_mr_e]

It's not the OS, it's the apps. People don't want to learn new apps, or face the fact that many of the apps (games) don't work on OSX, which means having to use two OS's, which is pointless.

Re:What can a Mac do that a Win/Linux machine cant

[livewire98801]

First, I'm a Linux user, not a Mac user. My notebook runs Fedora 6, XP MCE, and MacOSx86 (HP notebook), but my server/desktop runs FC6. I would LOVE to switch everyone I know to FC6, but it's not happening. My Parents' computer won't move because they own businesses and require QuickBooks. With Vista coming out, that means that the next time my mother needs hardware updgrades, she's getting a Mac tower. Her Windows notebook is rather new, and that will stick around for a while.

The number one reason she's going to switch? Vista. The cost of the license, plus the extraordinary hardware it will require (she won't be able to use Home Basic, it'll have to be a higher end license), along with the price of AV and other considerations puts her right past the Mac pricepoint. Of course, the fact that I refuse to support Vista on her computer might be part of it :)

She'll be able to keep her current XP PC for a bit longer yet, but when it goes, she's getting a Mac.

Keynote is quite good

[mo]

I'm giving a talk at the Southern California Linux Expo this weekend, and it will be done on my wife's Mac using Keynote.
I actually mocked the slides up in MagicPoint, but I just don't trust my linux laptop to play well with the VGA port and whatever projecter they might have. The Keynote slides look amazing, and I know her Mac will just work with the display they give me. I sometimes wonder if that was Apple's intention in making Keynote so good. Every presentation with it is basically a MacOS commercial.

I looked into switching, but HW held me back.

[guidryp]

I am nearing the point of upgrading my Windows box (Athlon XP) to a new dual core. I really wanted to give Apple a shot. But the lack of Hardware really had me give up. I was willing to pay a small premium but still there was nothing.

First I have two monitors, so a built in monitor computer is out. Even if I needed a monitor, I would not be Crazy about tying them together permanently.

That leaves the Mini and the Pro. I wanted decent graphics (~7600GT) so the mini was shot down.
That left the pro. Way too much money. That left: another new windows box.

There is just no reasonably priced Mac with even remotely mainstream graphics power.

It is not so much that Apple takes an excessive profit margin, it is that they choose components that have poor bang/buck. The mini is built out of laptop components that all cost more and have less power. Graphics power seems completely irrelevant to Apple as well. You move to the Pro and you are forced to buy overkill Dual Xeons with ECC memory.

I have no problem with Apple controlling their HW, but with that they need to offer broader HW choices.

Re:Dell Laptop + Linux

[Anonymous Coward]

"if you're buying a new PC and want proper support it's hard to go past apple at the moment."

I whole heartedly DISAGREE. I bought a new Mac Mini when they came out, almost a year after I bought it I had some Apple representative call me and ask how I was getting on blah blah blah, and after a few minutes ask me if I wanted to extend Apple Care, when I replied "No thanks" she HUNG UP THE PHONE IMMEDIATLEY.

Stuff like that leaves a bitter taste in your mouth.

I bought a Mac too.

[RonTheHurler]

Hey, I was a windows user for fifteen years. I've also been a developer for AIX and been using Slackware since it was born- still do on all my servers (and not planning to change that).

I bought my first mac (Mac Pro) two months ago to replace my desktop on the home computer. I'm now in the process of replacing ALL my windows computers with Macs in my business too, starting with the CEO (my own box). Costly, yes. But I'm convinced it will be well worth it.

Why are Macs better- I believe it's because of a dedication to this quote: "People who are serious about software design their own hardware." I forget who said it, but as a programmer, I agree 100% and I believe it's BETTER that you have to buy the OS AND the hardware from Mac.

Go Steve!

Re:Made such a change a long, long time ago

[nick.ian.k]

If so then my question is what do you do now that the only OS that doesn't come with a web browser built-in is Abacus 1.0?

100% untrue. Numerous permutations of Linux and BSD come without web browsers, and most of the ones that do have them included make it fairly trivial to remove them. I'm sure there are other browser-less OSs out there besides these, though I'm not explicitly aware of them.

Just did it.

[ProfessionalCookie]

I just bought six Windows Free computers and promptly infected them with Windows XP. The cost? $139 Per Machine. That's an OEM windows license which, apparently means it's non-transferable. $139 for last decade's OS.

Ironically the six computer I bought were Mac Minis. They were nearly exactly what we were looking for. Dual Core, Slow Clock (runs cool), really small form factor, gigabit ethernet, USB+DVI. We use them as reservation terminals for our Northern California Campground.

I'm kind of curious 'cause I did a lot of shopping around- is there a similarly spec'd cheaper core duo (need not be core 2 duo) compy out there? We were looking for Core Duo, Min 512MB Ram, only need like 20GB of HD, don't need a CD drive optional, Gigabit Ethernet, decent onboard graphics in a small form factor.

Back on topic I can't wait for the day that we get a good Mac client for our res system (likely never). Still, we're waiting to jump ship too.

Ed

Re:About drivers for specialized hardware?

[demonbug]

In our lab, we've got both. PCs run the instruments, the data generally gets stored on network servers (running some sort of Unix - it is shared with the whole department), and then we do most of our analysis/writing work on Macs (because my PI likes them, and none of the rest of us really care - though it helps that our department computer staff have a very strong Mac background and tend to push them, and my PI's son works for Apple). I also work on my Windows laptop when I'm not around lab, transferring stuff back and forth without problems. I wouldn't say this is a typical setup, but it is becoming more so - Macs and PCs really do work together pretty well, and if you can use one you can probably use the other without too much trouble.
That said, in terms of the instrumentation side of things the scientific world is still very Windows-centric in my experience. Especially for the types of equipment we use, where the computer running it isn't really considered to be a separate entity (even if it says "Dell" on the side), it is just a component that comes with the equipment when you order it (or, as is the case with our latest computer, it came as part of a "software upgrade" for an instrument - the $1000 or so for the computer is small potatoes compared to the cost of the software and the rest of the hardware).

Fires

[Enrique1218]

I made the switch back in the days of 10.0. Year after year, I find myself putting out fewer fires. Now, I can't believe I spent time with that other OS doing things like defragging, virus scans, spyware scans, and my favorite- the clean reinstall. OS X moves to the background and I actually get work done on it. My powerbook is my workhorse. But, I would like to see a OSX on a Thinkpad. Reliable OS on reliable hardware.

What about Amiga?

[AmigaHeretic]

505 comments and no one has once mentioned switching to AmigaOS. Shame on you all!!

IMHO...as a Windows Vista and Mac OSX user...

[notaprguy]

He's wrong. The funny thing is...the only real nice things about Mac's are (1) very nice hardware (2) a couple of their bundled apps like iPhoto. The overall user experience is way over rated. I'm not a total Mac newbie. I owned several Mac's "back in the day" including a Mac SE with a whopping 4 MB of RAM, then a FX machine, and a Quadra 650. Then I started using Windows and didn't use Mac's except occasionally for several years and didn't buy any. Last summer I bought a Duo Core Intel iMac b/c I wanted something that would look nice in my kitchen nook. It looks great. But the OS is not what it's cracked up to be. Installing applications is...wierd... Unless you're experienced you end up with all of the foo.dmg files on your desktop... Thinking that you've installed the application you throw them into the trash. Wait a sec! The app doesnt' work anymore. Oh. I guess I should have known to drag that file into my applications folder. What would have thought? Safari is a piece of shit compared to Firefox or IE 7. Spotlight is nice but the new search in Windows Vista works at least as well if not better. The overall "polish" of the Mac UI is nice-ish but not really "better" than the Mac unless you're a designer weenie. The hardware is the only real compelling strength. Were it not for the nice hardware - one wire for power and two wires to connect and power and external hard drive - I'd get rid of it today. If a PC company would finally design a nice form factor Windows machine I'd buy it tomorrow. Bottom line: Mac's are over rated and mostly the fetish's of fanboys/fangirls who walk around wearing nothing but black, Doc Martins and...never mind. Time to shut up. If you're all about image, get a Mac.

Re:A switcher

[jo_ham]

There's also Flip 4 Mac (http://www.flip4mac.com/), providing a free component for Quicktime that enables seamless playback of most WMV content in Quicktime Player and from within browsers, that's much better than the official MS WMV player (for one thing, you can actually scrub with the playhead, unlike the official player).

It won't handle DRM-ed wmv content, but the official MS client for OS X doesn't either. DRM WMV is strictly windows only. Apart from that, it's excellent.

We've been using the full HD studio version of Flip 4 Mac to create wmv files for client preview right out of Final Cut Pro.