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Army of Davids Beats Pentagon Procurement

chris-chittleborough writes "The Wall Street Journal reports that 'a Marine officer in Iraq, a small network-design company in California, a nonprofit troop-support group, a blogger and other undeterrable folk designed a handheld insurgent-identification device, built it, shipped it and deployed it in [Iraq] in 30 days.' Compare this to the Automated Biometric Identification System, a multi-megabuck Pentagon project now 2 years old. With bureaucracy increasingly strangling innovation, will agile smaller businesses be able to accomplish what once required a sprawling government project?"

67 of 412 comments (clear)

  1. There must be a typo. by EveryNickIsTaken · · Score: 4, Funny

    You used "government" and "innovation" in the same sentence.

    1. Re:There must be a typo. by jonnythan · · Score: 5, Funny

      They used "strangling" in the same sentence, so it's OK.

  2. American Spirit at it's best by with_him · · Score: 4, Insightful

    A great story of how I won't take no for an answer solves problems. I just hope, and bet, it will save lives on the ground in Iraq.

    1. Re:American Spirit at it's best by mikeisme77 · · Score: 2, Insightful
      I just had a conversation about this today. There are essentially three solutions to this problem:
      • Withdraw from Iraq and let it go to hell in a hand basket. People have an issue with this because they think of it as "defeat", I see it as cutting losses... Also, some people see it as bad on our part for causing a mess and then abandoning it... but really, it was sort of already a mess...
      • Cut off all communication between Iraq and the outside world and fight the war like wars used to be fought (kill whoever you need to kill to stop an insurgency). This of course would be frowned upon by the UN and likely to create martyrs/create more problems/force us to spread this tactic throughout the Middle East... Probably not the best solution... but if you're going to fight a war, you should fight a war...
      • Divide the country up into smaller portions where each of the major factions controls part of it (see: Yugoslavia). Again, the UN is likely to frown upon this. There's also the issue that Syria and Iran are likely to antagonize these smaller nations and that could lead to issues. Plus these smaller nations may very well fight amongst themselves any way. And to make matters even worse one of the new countries would likely be Kurdish and Turkey and many other Middle Eastern countries have stated that they will not allow a new Kurdish state to be formed...
      In short, we should cut our losses and bill it as a "strategic retreat" rather than a "defeat" for those who actually care... Otherwise, we're looking at being there for decades with, likely, very little progress...
    2. Re:American Spirit at it's best by Cornflake917 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      [quote] After they left, communists took power -- [b]and killed far more people than the war.[/b] [/quote]

      Link, please.

      First of all, Americans where in Vietnam for more than two decades. They had their chance. It's not like the American forces didn't some small window of oppurtunity to end the conflict.

      Second, can you give an accurate estimate of how much more NVA soldiers Americans would have needed to kill to end the war? Do you know how much more people would have been killed after the war if the outcome was in our favor? I sure as hell can't. That's why bringing numbers into to this is more bull shit than anything else.

      One of the main reasons why we went there in the first place was because McCarthy scared the shit out of the American public (sound familiar?), and basically made people believe that if communism doesn't end in Vietnam, then the whole world would become a slave to communism. Of course, this never happened after the war.

      [quote]Guns don't kill people, peacenik bullshit does![/quote]
      People who refuse to fight to defend their family, friends, and country are pussies. I have no qualms saying that. But Vietnam wasn't a war about defending ourselves. After we "lost" Vietnam, they didn't come over and bomb the shit out of us, like we did to them. So pulling out of there wasn't as a horrible decision as you make it out be.

    3. Re:American Spirit at it's best by Lord+Bitman · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yes.
      100 people a day is, seriously, something to sneeze at.

      --
      -- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All
    4. Re:American Spirit at it's best by sheldon · · Score: 4, Informative

      Pol Pot came to power because the US destabilized Cambodia while fighting in Vietnam.

      It was the Vietnamese who went in to Cambodia and took out Pol Pot.

      Peace comes from courage. Not shooting people without understanding what is going on.

    5. Re:American Spirit at it's best by dlt074 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "Pol Pot came to power because the US destabilized Cambodia while fighting in Vietnam."

      close, but no. it was stable until we pulled out. when the US pulls its troops out of an area, it destabilizes.

      spot on. of coarse Vietnam went in to take him out, the US sure didn't have the spine to do it. they were drowning in hippie's. and communist countries can barely feed their own let alone the flood of refugees, monsters like pol pot create.

      close again. understanding which people you need to shoot and having the courage to do it is what brings peace.

    6. Re:American Spirit at it's best by rho · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Why did they arm Saddam Hussein for decades so he could oppress his own people? Why did the american government not make a big fuss when he first gassed his own people? I could go on and on.

      One way of looking at it is a change of US policy. No more "stability", the US is proactively supporting democracy everywhere. That may or may not be a good thing, and that's an important debate to have. But if the government has decided that 9/11 was a result of letting rogue nations be in the interest of stability in the region, then a change in policy is in order.

      It doesn't give a damn about the Iraqis. It never has, and it probably never will.

      That's a fascinating unsupported assertion, and I'm curious what you think we are there for. If you're thinking "oil", "imperialism", or "Haliburton", you don't have to reply. I'll automatically assume you're a fool.

      --
      Potato chips are a by-yourself food.
    7. Re:American Spirit at it's best by dedo_jozef · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I live in an former communist country in Eastern Europe. We never lacked food or anything. Actually, the average man was better of in socialism than now. But we wanted freedom.

  3. Apples & Oranges? by winkydink · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So does their device withstand extremes of temperature duration both
    operation and storage? High humidity? Is it impervious to dust?
    How does it handle shock and vibration?

    20+ years ago, I worked for a company that designed & manufactured
    power supplies for the military. It's one thing to design a quick
    & dirty one-off, proof-of-concept. It's quite another to build a
    production device that will withstand continued use in a multitude
    of military environments.

    --

    "I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey

    1. Re:Apples & Oranges? by bluekanoodle · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Take the google example to extreme, build the system of out cogs, and when a cog breaks replace it. Granted some things need to be military spec, but these devices are being used in a law enforcement style capacity, not a chugging through the brush for 20 days role. Just like the police style equipment this is modeled from, the users of the system are never more then a couple of hours aways from the base of operations that a replacement part can't be substituted. whats important is to ensure the units are interchangeable and that you keep sufficient stock on hand.

      In any case, having something like this that has not had extensive field trials is better then what they had before, which was nothing. The problem with the military procurement system, is that everything has to go thrugh the same process, regardless of whether its a 200 handheld unit, or a 1 million dollar vehicle. This does not allow the agility that the private sector can afford.

    2. Re:Apples & Oranges? by ajlitt · · Score: 2, Insightful

      RTFA: They did not design any new hardware. They put together an application to run on an off-the-shelf ruggedized fingerprint scanning PDA and a hardened (article isn't clear about what this means) laptop for database storage. The app isn't even from the ground-up: a police event tracking application was used as a base.

      This goes to show that the Not Invented Here attitude of most government contractors is due to wanting to stretch out a contract rather than trying to make a more reliable design.

    3. Re:Apples & Oranges? by Terminal+Saint · · Score: 2, Insightful

      A good solution now is better than a perfect solution two years from now. I'd rather have one of these devices that breaks down occasionally than go without until it's perfected.

      --
      It's sad when choosing an installation directory on your own qualifies you as an "advanced user."
    4. Re:Apples & Oranges? by Lemmy+Caution · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No. We should listen to the people who've been there, but we will absolutely not refrain from speaking just because we haven't. Do you have opinions about Vietnam? Kosovo? Sudan? The Civil War? Stem-cell research? Environmental policy? Do you think you should be disqualified from expressing or advocating a position simply because you weren't in those places or actively engaged in those research projects?

      I hear your line of commentary a lot. The experience of people who are there and who have been there is important, but everyone's individual experience is still just that - it doesn't give an overview, you may miss very important features of the situation that didn't occur where you are (and, of course, it leaves out the experiences of Iraqis). Asking your experiences to be taken seriously is important. Trying to quell discussion based on those experiences is wrong.

    5. Re:Apples & Oranges? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What's your point? I've done military systems design work as well, and fuckups like you are prone to throw things in the field that will malfunction at the worst possible time. When lives are on the line it's not amateur hour for the engineers.

      There.. now THAT'S a flame.

    6. Re:Apples & Oranges? by winkydink · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You know why? It was his. He bought it with his money. If it broke, he didn't get issued another one. People take better care of stuff they have to buy with their own money. The IT dept in my company can show you a shelf full of busted laptops that never went to Iraq and never made 18 months.

      --

      "I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey

    7. Re:Apples & Oranges? by ShieldW0lf · · Score: 2

      You know, I really don't see a problem with a sovereign nation deciding to implement a national identity verification scheme internally.

      Now, sending troops to a foreign nation to kill everyone with enough spine to stand up for themselves and forcibly implement such a scheme on the remaining citizens, that's a different matter.

      America isn't going crazy with fear because they got attacked. They're not going crazy with fear because they're afraid other people are going to try to kill them.

      They're going crazy with fear because they hear the ticking of the tell-tale heart. Because their culture is based around killing and exploiting others.

      They've always known they deserve to have people try to kill them, and that's a scary thing.

      --
      -1 Uncomfortable Truth
  4. even for hard things, less seems more by yagu · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I once learned (or was taught) at a consortium if you (as a corporation) couldn't build a new major application/suite of applications in six months, you shouldn't do it. I think the message wasn't that if the task was more than six months it was too hard... the message (in my interpretation) was you should find a better way to get to your endpoint, i.e., in a business setting you had to be more "agile" (sorry).

    I think this is even more true for this example. Bigger organizations (and they don't seem to get more bigger than the government, eh?) beget less ability to:

    • decide what you need
    • design it
    • create it
    • deliver it

    When lives are at stake it is even more/most glaring. It would be nice to see the government (whoever that is) take a lesson from this. However, different pieces of the government maintain a stranglehold grip on their turf and are generally loathe to loosen that grip.

    Less is more, but it's hard to convince the more to let the less get 'er done.

  5. I-Can't-Believe-It's-Not-The-Legal-System! by Rei · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Now without all of those pesky "legal restraints", "checks and balances", and "aquittals"! Now, when you round up every male between the ages of 16 and 70 after an attack and have them fingerprinted, everyone else will know that they're all suspected terrorists.

    --
    When someone says "I want a programming language in which I need only say what I wish done," give him a lollipop.
  6. This is the entire problem with "cheap combat" by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Something tells me that if we drafted the appropriate industries to build a *REAL* military industrial complex, and punished profiteering adequately in the first place, our troops could have had this technology (instead of a stupid deck of playing cards) in 2002, instead of waiting until 2007 for it to be delivered. But since Bush doesn't want to impact the profitability of this war, we have to wait for a significantly patriotic David to identify who the enemy is. It's exactly this lack of vision that has turned Afghanistan back into a Taliban-controlled country and destroyed our success in Iraq.

    --
    SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    1. Re:This is the entire problem with "cheap combat" by compro01 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      well, we (Canada) are working on afganistan, though no one seems to want to help us with it. not meaning the US, as they have their hands full with iraq.

      though this is yet another example of how damn effective gururla warfare is. the only time you tend to see terms like "dishonourable conduct" and "unfair tactics" is from the side that is not doing well.

      if you don't buy that it is effective, consider that the enemy, armed with AK-47s, RPGs, high explosives, and dedication to their cause, are holding their own against what is likely the most expensive and advanced miltary in the world.

      --
      upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
    2. Re:This is the entire problem with "cheap combat" by Skadet · · Score: 4, Insightful

      But since Bush doesn't want to impact the profitability of this war[. . .]
      Wait, do we hate Bush because he's spending too much money on the war, or because he didn't finance it enough to let the troops do their job? I'm so confused!
    3. Re:This is the entire problem with "cheap combat" by soft_guy · · Score: 2, Interesting

      if you don't buy that it is effective, consider that the enemy, armed with AK-47s, RPGs, high explosives, and dedication to their cause, are holding their own against what is likely the most expensive and advanced miltary in the world. This is classic asymetric warfare. It is how the US was beaten in Vietnam and it is how the US is likely to be beaten in Iraq and Afghanistan.
      --
      Avoid Missing Ball for High Score
    4. Re:This is the entire problem with "cheap combat" by gstoddart · · Score: 4, Insightful

      though this is yet another example of how damn effective gururla warfare is. the only time you tend to see terms like "dishonourable conduct" and "unfair tactics" is from the side that is not doing well.

      Traditional armies have been saying that about insurgents since at least the US war for independance. They didn't line up into neat rows and square off against British soldiers like they were expected to.

      if you don't buy that it is effective, consider that the enemy, armed with AK-47s, RPGs, high explosives, and dedication to their cause, are holding their own against what is likely the most expensive and advanced miltary in the world.

      Of course it's effective. They are using the tactics that the Americans trained and equipped them to use against the Soviets. And, they were good at it -- you'll notice the Societs eventually gave up and went home.

      It's a higly effective set of tactics.

      Cheers
      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    5. Re:This is the entire problem with "cheap combat" by E++99 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Something tells me that if we drafted the appropriate industries to build a *REAL* military industrial complex, and punished profiteering adequately in the first place, our troops could have had this technology (instead of a stupid deck of playing cards) in 2002, instead of waiting until 2007 for it to be delivered. But since Bush doesn't want to impact the profitability of this war, we have to wait for a significantly patriotic David to identify who the enemy is. It's exactly this lack of vision that has turned Afghanistan back into a Taliban-controlled country and destroyed our success in Iraq.

      You have it completely backwards. It is free enterprise that can move with agility and innovate, and which has done so in this case. And it is the overwhelming regulation required with any complex Federally controlled enterprise which strangles it. So, no, the idea that some fascist, command-economy, profit-punishing, military-industrial complex would out-innovate what we have now, is COMPLETELY NUTS.
    6. Re:This is the entire problem with "cheap combat" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Traditional armies have been saying that about insurgents since at least the US war for independance. They didn't line up into neat rows and square off against British soldiers like they were expected to.

      Actually that is not quite true. Except for a few well publisized examples like the British retreat from Lexington and Concord, most of the time the Continental army faced the British army toe to toe and fought by the formal rules of the day. They lost most of the battles (at least those in the north). The English had too long of a supply line and other political problems at home and just decided to focus their attention elsewhere.

      They were beaten not by a mythical rifleman hiding behind a tree but rather in part by real soldiers fighting a stand-up fight and (more importantly) the political realities of their time.

    7. Re:This is the entire problem with "cheap combat" by sheldon · · Score: 2

      Man, I thought you were going to give us something insightful. Like there's no way Iraq is like Vietnam. Since Vietnam had jungles, and Iraq has desert.

      Keep clapping. We'll see if you can save tinkerbell after all.

    8. Re:This is the entire problem with "cheap combat" by soft_guy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If I recall correctly, it was a bunch of crybabying hippies that beat the US in Vietnam. Our killing prowess was far superior.

      I suspect the same type of individuals will be responsible for our failure in the Middle East. Both the Johnson and Nixon administrations had years to fight the war pretty much however the hell they wanted and they could not get the other side to give up. You can blame "the hippies" all you want, but "the hippies" aren't in charge of the US military, nor are they the President of the United States or the Secretary of State or the Defense Secretary. To take longer than WWII and spend more money and not able to win is totally incompetent and to blame "the hippies" is idiotic.

      The fact is that the US military are totally incompetent to win the kind of war we are in.
      --
      Avoid Missing Ball for High Score
    9. Re:This is the entire problem with "cheap combat" by servognome · · Score: 2, Insightful

      though this is yet another example of how damn effective gururla warfare is.
      Guerilla warfare is very effective as a political tool, it has limited military value. It's primary purpose is not to "win," it's to induce weariness in the enemy through disruption.

      the only time you tend to see terms like "dishonourable conduct" and "unfair tactics" is from the side that is not doing well.
      Or when one side plays by a set of rules and the other side doesn't. For example a US bomb killing 100 insurgents and 1 civilian is seen as a failure, while an insurgent car bomb that kills 100 civilians and 1 US soldier is seen as a victory.

      if you don't buy that it is effective, consider that the enemy, armed with AK-47s, RPGs, high explosives, and dedication to their cause, are holding their own against what is likely the most expensive and advanced miltary in the world.
      Holding their own in the political sense that they still exist, which in practical terms is all they need. However, from a military perspective they have not had any significant victories over the US.
      --
      D6 63 0D 70 89 81 BB 8E 7B 7C 5F 5D 54 EA AB 73
  7. gov't never as efficient as business by gravesb · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The government will never be as efficient as a business. This is especially true in procurement, where there are enormous safeguards to try and restrict corruption. Of course, these safeguards don't always work. But they have been added over time as people learned to cheat the system, and are there for a reason. What we lose in agility we gain, somewhat, in transperency and review. Its a trade-off, and it makes the article's contention a truism. Its also intentional.

    --
    http://bgcommonsense.blogspot.com
  8. the wrong question by User+956 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    With bureaucracy increasingly strangling innovation, will agile smaller businesses be able to accomplish what once required a sprawling government project?

    I think a better question is: "Are sprawling government projects and bureaucracy really necessary?

    --
    The theory of relativity doesn't work right in Arkansas.
  9. Infantry proof by wiredog · · Score: 4, Informative

    That's what we called it when I was in the Army in the mid-80's. The PRC-77 was the size of a briefcase, carried on your back, and fairly pricey. Cost far more than handheld walkie talkies that operated on the same freqs. But the PRC-77 was far more robust. When it's raining artillery, robust is what you want.

    1. Re:Infantry proof by AKAImBatman · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The problem is that military technology is falling behind consumer technology. For example, many troops are carrying consumer GPS units because the military units (which can actually be more accurate) are too difficult to acquire and use. It's a lot easier for the troops to get large shipments of consumer GPS units w/spares that do what they need them to rather than waiting for the contracter to finish building an improved model after the war is over.

      Another way of thinking of the situation is like this: Is it better to have a piece of equipment that might break rather than having no equipment at all?

      If the answer is "yes", then a stopgap solution like the one in the article needs to be deployed immediately. If the answer is "no, it would be worse than having nothing" then the troops should make due without.

    2. Re:Infantry proof by Qzukk · · Score: 3, Interesting

      But the PRC-77 was far more robust.

      And naturally, after the PRC-77 run was over, every engineer that made it robust was taken out back and shot, and the plans shredded, pulped and incinerated, and the contractor began working on the PRC-78, spending 5 years trying to figure out just how to make it robust.

      In the real world, robustness is solved. Engineers don't need half a decade to build some contraption that can take a licking and keep on ticking, they just have to look at the previous designs and apply the same techniques to a modern device. But hey, when its the government's money, spending 2 months researching 400 different types of rubber grommets to determine which one works best for shock absorbing because, you know, physics might have changed in the last year or so, is a perfectly reasonable idea.

      --
      If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
    3. Re:Infantry proof by AKAImBatman · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Your comment is neither here nor there. I said that military technology is falling behind, not that it was never useful or that it isn't superior in some situations. In the example I listed, GPS RECEIVERS were replaced with consumer models because the comsumer models are easier to acquire and use. That's despite the fact that they provide inferior information. The military may eventually provide hardened units that are as feature rich as the consumer models, but the consumer models will work just fine until that happens.

      Nothing you said changes that point.

    4. Re:Infantry proof by Danse · · Score: 2, Informative

      What a funny example. If everybody made do with quick short-term solutions, there would be no commercial GPS receivers, becaus there would be no GPS satellite constellation! Those satellites weren't designed and launched by a scrappy startup in a month.

      I think what he's getting at is that not everything needs to be a major undertaking. Yes, launching satellites is something that requires a huge effort. You really have to make sure you get it right the first time because it's extremely expensive to fix things if you don't. It's not the same situation with most electronic devices, even those used in combat. You want to make sure they work well enough to get the job done, but it's better to be able to build them for a reasonable price and ship a bunch of spares than to insist on perfection and spend years developing a device that is very expensive and doesn't get rolled out until the war is over. For the troops over there now, something is better than nothing.
      --
      It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
  10. I wish we could. by IndustrialComplex · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If my login wasn't clue enough...

    I've had so many negative experiences when dealing with governmental customers. While there is a lot of blame to be laid on the large companies, I can't fathom (or rather I don't want to) how much money has been wasted by people who really don't understand what they want, or how much it will cost to actually get what they want.

    I've spent months doing work only to have it erased by the customer, worked another month, only to have them revert back to the origin. Only then do they discover that you can't just 'go back' once production has started without huge costs.

    Or maybe they do understand it, but just don't care.

    --
    Out of modpoints but really liked a post? 1BDkF6TtmmeZ3yqXbz9yhdYVqRYnwFoXDj
  11. It Is My Experience by Greyfox · · Score: 4, Insightful

    That the quick and dirty app working now usually trumps the super-duper uber app that may get built in 3 or 4 years.

    --

    I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

  12. Beware of the Source by mattbadass · · Score: 2, Insightful

    In situations like this, I would be careful the source. This is coming from an editorial in the Wall Street Journal, which is extraordinarily conservative. I'm not saying that this isn't a shameful example of the Pentagon getting bogged down in bureaucracy. But anything coming out of the Wall St Journal's editorial board smacks of political agenda. In this case "government == bad. free enterprise == good". And this is one of the directors of the editorial board to boot.

    Just my 3 cents.

  13. Gold Platting by Hangtime · · Score: 3, Insightful

    There is a difference between trying to get everything perfect and good enough. This is good enough. Waiting around trying to figure out how to get all this networked isn't it going to help.

  14. Just try cutting off the gravy train... by greg_barton · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The moment you try to limit funding to a wasteful Pentagon program you're accused of hating the troops.

    And so it goes.

    The standard rip against wasteful education spending is, "You can't just throw money at a problem and expect it to be fixed!"

    Yet that's done 10x with the military and no one bats an eye.

    1. Re:Just try cutting off the gravy train... by bmajik · · Score: 2, Interesting

      More is spent on education than defense in this country.

      CIA world factbook shows that Defense is 4.06% of GDP.

      This page shows that Education is 5.7% of GDP.
      http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/edu_edu_spe-educ ation-spending-of-gdp

      What that page doesn't show you us that the US GDP is 12tr$, so 5.7% is 648 BILLION dollars, or over $2k per year for every man, woman, and child in this country. When you consider the fraction of the 300m assumed population that actually receive public school instruction, and the magnificent failure of public schooling to produce much more than school shootings, the crushing magnitude of the failure of this investment is starkly obvious - even in comparison to the "investments" we make in our military.

      When i think back to all the public school english literature teachers that had their big NOW/Teachers Union pow-wows and the classroms filled with posters about it being a wonderful day when the air force has to hold a bake sale to buy a bomber, i want to smack them un-stupid more than ever.

      The notion that we (the US) overspend on defense to the detriment of education, loudly trumpeted by the entrenched teachers unions of our horrible nationalized schooling system, is one of the critical self-serving fallacies in popular culture.

      I want kids to be educated. I like hard working teachers. I hate the modern US government, which goes to tremendous lengths to prevent good hard working teachers from having a meaningful positive impact in the lives of deserving kids.

      --
      My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
  15. Nope by kurthr · · Score: 3, Informative

    "will agile smaller businesses be able to accomplish what once required a sprawling government project?"

    No, because they don't have the political power to actually get large contracts. Their larger competitors will use their influence on legislators to get "written in" to large budget bills. Can you say, "No bid contract"? Their less scrupulous competitors will bribe legislators or military procurement. We've already seen this in Iraq with everything from oil and water, to flack jackets.

    The most insidious tool that's used are the absurd design requirements documents. They set out an often completely unnecessary set of requirements that often only one company, or perhaps two very large companies can provide. This keeps any bidding process "under control". What will be delivered may not even meet those requirements, but only after years of delays, "best effort", and disappointment. The only good thing that seems to come out of the larger projects are the much derided "slush funds" that let individuals actually innovate without being put under this absurd process.

    Why is it set up this way? Is there a better way with the Bureaucracy we have? Is tearing it down the way to go? Good questions. DARPA and some small programs try to fix this around the edges, but something with this much money in it will always draw the crooks.

    NASA is subject to the same pitfalls. It just costs less money, and fewer people die.

  16. Two problems: org size and gov't creativity by jofny · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Yeah, smaller companies distribute and process information more effectively, so they are almost always better suited to developing new things than the government or the large contractors. However, producing old things repeatably to the same spec and with organizational resiliancy is something smaller companies have a harder time doing, so from a long term perspective it's not a clear win for smaller companies.

    The only time the government really beats out private industry (and to a greater extent, larger orgs beat out smaller ones) on new technology innovation is when it's a money issue (the materials really do cost billions of dollars). As technology has gotten cheaper and become more accessible, that advantage has slowly disappeared.

    A larger issue than size, though, is that governments (most of them, this one in particular) tend to recruit homogenous workforces and encourage groupthink. Workers are encouraged (directly or through lack of promotions, harassment, etc.) to "fit in" at an institutional level. So, it's not surprising that the government is not as innovative as other places.

    People lately are often heard saying that the US government doesn't "pay enough" to get good people. I dont know about you all, but I'd give up a little pay to work on interesting projects and with good people. The government's problem is that it doesn't -like- people who are creative, innovative, and different and actively selects them out - not the pay.

  17. Think of the children by fermion · · Score: 4, Insightful

    We know that we can build equal equipment cheaper and faster, but just think of the children of the KBR executives that will not receive a tropical island for christmas because some do goodder was more interested in protecting troops than Haliburton profits. I mean, my god, if our desire was to simply stop terrorism we would have another president right now, and probably would have put bin laden on trail rather than hussain.

    --
    "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
  18. There's a difference by CaffeineAddict2001 · · Score: 5, Funny

    The government doesn't spend $10 on a screw. They spend $10 on an M2.5 truss head stainless steel threaded fastening device.

  19. Re:A little hyperbole by illegalcortex · · Score: 4, Insightful

    dems dont want to let them have the funding they need
    So, tell me again how the dems managed to cause this problem when they were utterly out of power for the last for the last decade. Oh, and for the last six years the Republicans controlled both houses of Congress with enough votes to pass anything other than mandatory baby sacrifices and had a president that would sign any bill sent to him?

    Those lousy Democrats sure are crafty...
  20. Why? by vic-traill · · Score: 2, Insightful

    So, call me an ignorant foreigner (I'm Canadian), but why are US military forces doing the job of a domestic police force in a middle-eastern country?

    I swear to god I'm not trolling - but for the life of me, I don't understand why you're shipping guys halfway around the world to do someone else's job.

    --
    [17] Leary, T., White, C., Wood, P. R., Bhabha, W. D., and Wirth, N. Lambda calculus considered harmful. In Proceedings
    1. Re:Why? by east+coast · · Score: 2, Insightful

      For the same reason American GIs were policing Germany and Japan 60 years ago.

      What do you mean "were"?

      I hate to have to clue the /. crowd into this little fact but the Americans are still policing Germany and Japan.

      Granted, there is no insurgency, there is no Iron Curtain nor any cold war any longer but the fact is that had the US and associated allies abandoned their posts in these nations after the ink on the peace treaties were signed there would have been another war the next day. While this occupation has gone on for far too long don't think for a second that the peace treaties truely put everything at peace. How the hell do you think WWII started in the first place?

      It's good to see people keeping an eye out for the big brother factor but I think we're all a bit too quick to think that there is going to be a defined point where everyone is going to drop their weapons and return to their farms and markets the next day. It simply doesn't happen.

      There was a pretty interesting article today on MSNBC.com about seeing the problems in Iraq and the rest of the middle east from the eyes of an American Muslim. I recommend people who don't understand the Sunni/Shiite conflicts to go read this. It's not overly involved and it makes it a bit easier to understand what is really wrong not to mention it gives some insight into what is really more a matter of gang warfare as opposed to a real insurgency.

      --
      Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
  21. It is not a "major war" by paiute · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Trying to fight a "major war"? We are not at war and have not been since 1945.

    --
    If Slashdot were chemistry it would look like this:Cadaverine
  22. article is an oversimplification by finlandia1869 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    IAANAT (I Am A Navy Acquisition Type). Don't give me the "ditching the peacetime acquisition system would fix this" argument - innumerable, half-assed products are developed and dumped on the troops during wartime in the name of getting things to the field quickly. They get fixed only after it catches fire and kills the crew. Or they don't work after falling in salt water. Or something like that. Wartime is no better. Troops in the field always want the latest and greatest Right Now; they don't care that 79 other guys are asking for the same thing, but a little different, resulting in 80 incompatible systems that each carry their own, unique logistics tail.

    I also can say that the big contractors are indispensable for some things. Lockheed Martin maintains and updates the monster that is Aegis, for example. David has no ability to do this. Maybe an army of Davids overseen by LockMart acting as lead integrator, but otherwise no.

    The acquisition process has serious problems, don't get me wrong. But anecdotes don't make a good argument.

  23. News of the Obvious by jalefkowit · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It's news that a small group of committed individuals moves faster than Department of Defense procurement? Continental drift moves faster than Department of Defense procurement.

    It can take decades for a new weapons system to go from concept to prototype to deployment. Look how long systems like the F-22 fighter were in the procurement pipe. The DoD procurement process is so lengthy that by the time the system is deployed, the threat it was designed to counter has often disappeared.

  24. It's not just government by spun · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Large corporations also suffer from beaurocracy and inflexibility. I can't believe I'm saying this being as lefty-liberal as I am, but the difference is that companies follow a natural life cycle. They start out small and agile, get bigger through success against their less nimble rivals, become less nimble themselves, and get beaten in their turn. Government has no natural rivals and thus never dies. It just shambles on, zombie-like.

    I'll put that down to people's fear of not being able to support themselves, and thus being unable to let go of a job even if that job is no longer relevant. Perhaps if rights to food, clothing and shelter were garaunteed, government departments that had outlived their usefulness would be less resistant to being dissolved.

    Whew! Almost let a pro-capitalist thought slip through unchallenged. ;-)

    --
    - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    1. Re:It's not just government by spun · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Employers do not garauntee anything. They exist to make profits for the shareholders. They don't give a rats ass how many people starve, and in fact profit from keeping people scared. Scared people are more likely to accept low wages and poor working conditions. Contrary to popular belief, most people actually do want to contribute to society, and if offered a choice between getting the bare minimum to survive while not contributing, or getting even a little more but being a productive member of society, most will choose the later. As long as people are worried about their very survival, they can't really be free.

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    2. Re:It's not just government by timeOday · · Score: 5, Insightful

      They start out small and agile, get bigger through success against their less nimble rivals, become less nimble themselves, and get beaten in their turn. Government has no natural rivals and thus never dies.
      It's not just that. Bigger companies (and governments) solve bigger problems. The reason the Army is careful is because going off half-cocked gets people killed just as much as doing nothing, and, yes, is more scandalous. It sounds great to give everybody autonomy so they can react quickly and decisively, but along with that comes Abu Ghraib, friendly fire, and missing palettes of cash. You can say what you want about our nimble opponents in the face of an ossified DOD, but the fact is the US has a very high kill ratio due to things like standardized training, fighter aircraft, and M1 tanks, which result ONLY from big, coordinated activities that no single small company - or even a collection of exclusively small companies - can do. (Nor am I saying a high kill ratio in itself will win Iraq, but that's more a problem with the mission itself than the force structure). Even projecting an invasion force from the US to Iraq in the first place is by definition a large scale activity that could never be approached as a large, highly coordinated effort (again, aside from whether going there was a bright idea in the first place).
    3. Re:It's not just government by spun · · Score: 2

      Funny, I don't recall saying it meant anything. Someone asked where I had gotten the idea, and I replied. Nowhere in this thread did I say that those rights were currently being enforced. Only that they should be.

      Are the concepts behind the document equally worthless in your opinion?

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    4. Re:It's not just government by quanticle · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Are the concepts behind the document equally worthless in your opinion?

      The concepts aren't worthless. Of course everyone should have the right to food, clothing, and other necessary goods. However, the methods used to enforce those rights usually lead to excessive centralization on the part of the government.

      Not to say that it always happens (just look at Scandinavia), but the methods used to enforce those rights must be carefully monitored to make sure that the system doesn't collapse into totalitarianism.

      --
      We all know what to do, but we don't know how to get re-elected once we have done it
    5. Re:It's not just government by spun · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Indeed, that is the danger. It should be noted too that there are reasons why the Nordic countries have been so succsessful with socialism. One, they are quite culturally homogenous, so one never feels that outsiders are leaching off of them. Two, they have a culture of cooperation brought about by extremes of climate. That's my theory, anyway.

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    6. Re:It's not just government by ben+there... · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It's not just that. Bigger companies (and governments) solve bigger problems. The reason the Army is careful is because going off half-cocked gets people killed just as much as doing nothing, and, yes, is more scandalous. It sounds great to give everybody autonomy so they can react quickly and decisively, but along with that comes Abu Ghraib, friendly fire, and missing palettes of cash.

      The missing palettes of cash were known about through independent news and radio long before the news hit mainstream media, including an interview with a woman soldier who had refused to take the money who said that she was told to keep quiet about it, not send any home, and not to make it obvious when she returned home. But it's only a small part of a bigger picture. The DoD has over $2.3 trillion unaccounted for[CBS], 25% of its budget of taxpayers' money. The palettes of cash are business as usual. The worrisome part is not the American and Iraqi soldiers receiving what one might call "bonuses", but where the rest of that $2.3 trillion+ went. If the Executive and military authority are that brazen about giving out unaccounted for money and then telling them to keep quiet about it, imagine what other undocumented transactions of our tax money they might be willing to do. It's obvious at this point that the people of this country (and their representatives) will not hold them accountable, and I'm sure they realize that.

      It's also hard to believe that Abu Graib was the result of giving too much "autonomy" while Alberto Gonzales is arguing for the use of torture. Do you think you'll ever really know how high up the chain of command the knowledge of what was going on in Abu Graib reached? Or whether the same thing didn't happen at other locations? Do you think you'll ever know all the horrors and atrocities that have resulted from an urban war that has gone on far too long, with many of its battered participants now having served several tours of duty?

      No, it is my belief that only the uninformed will believe that these cases are isolated incidents resulting from giving the perpetrators too much autonomy. They are the exact opposite: the inevitable corruption resulting from giving a military bureaucracy too much power with far too little oversight.
  25. Re:device not about saving lives by Radon360 · · Score: 4, Insightful
    From Merriam-Webster:

    insurgent(noun)
    1: a person who revolts against civil authority or an established government; especially : a rebel not recognized as a belligerent
    2: one who acts contrary to the policies and decisions of one's own political party

    Setting aside the legality of the occupation for a moment, the typical insurgent isn't defending his homeland, but more so fighting for his particular faction to gain control or power, doing whatever harm against others in relatiation for "being wronged" whether by United States or another competing faction.

    The troops at this point aren't so much fighting a convential war, but rather working as an "industrial strength" version of a police force to stop one group from attacking the other and vice-versa, getting caught in the middle from "meddling" with each groups objectives. As a police force, they need the tools of a police force in order to locate and identify troublemakers and perform their investigations more efficiently. This is one example (of many) tools to function in this manner. Remember that the military is better equipped for fighting wars and not function as a domestic police force. Equipment like this would allow them to function better with their current mission as such.

    Think of it this way for a moment: Would a city's police force be very effective if you took away all of their offender databases, mobile data terminals and other tech tools? Yes, you could equip them all with body armor and machine guns, but their effectiveness is then limited to "shoot first and ask questions later". If the police were only allowed to operate in this mode, it's no wonder that all sorts of uprisings and attacks would result.

  26. Re:Apples & Oranges? What if oranges are bette by whoever57 · · Score: 2, Informative

    So does their device withstand extremes of temperature duration both operation and storage? High humidity? Is it impervious to dust? How does it handle shock and vibration?
    Which is better: a theoretical device that has not been delivered, or a real device that may be unreliable?

    There are many reasons why some military equipment should withstand such environmental stresses, but applying the same rules to all equipment makes little sense if the end result is that the US army does not readily have the equipment. Sometimes, it is better to have access to many units at a cost effective price and time than a much smaller numer of no-more capable (albeit more reliable) units. I think the Israeli forces have recognised this.
    --
    The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
  27. Rumsfeld's military by Bassman59 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    "You don't go to war with the military you want. You go to war with the military you have."

  28. An alternative explanation by hey! · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Issues of government (in)competence and procurement arcana aside, let me offer an alternative explanation.

    We, through our elected representatives, have not faced up to the fact that we're in the occupation and counter-insurgency business for the long term.

    We've created a military with unprecedented tactical agility -- which doesn't help in this situation, as they trudge out on patrols and get picked off on the way back. We've equipped them so they are more lethal per person than any military in history -- which is downright harmful. What we can infer about this is that we want our guys to fly in, kick the shit out of anybody they have to, then get the hell out.

    Rushing new technology into the hands of troop is les than ideal for many reasons. Nor should you need to do it if you anticipated how you'd be using the troops correctly. The first weeks of the Iraq war showed how well the troops were equipped, trained and structured for the ass kicking duties we thought we'd be using them for. The remainder showed how poorly we'd planned the aftermath; the intention was to be well out of there by now. We were assured that while nobody could predict how long it would take, that people who said it would take years were crazy or something.

    The bottom line is the reason we are bogged down in Iraq isn't bureaucratic incompetence, it is strategic incompetence.

    --
    Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  29. Blame the contractors and the politicians by Bassman59 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Face it ... the large military contractors (the Raytheons, the Halliburtons, the whomevers) are not rewarded for their innovations. They're rewarded, in units of large contracts for weapons systems with questionable necessity and dubious quality, for their contributions to the campaigns of the political leaders who control those contracts. Can you said "quid pro quo"? Sure you can. And the more impressive-sounding and more expensive the proposed weapons systems are, the more likely the funders get hard-ons for them.

    Oh, yeah, and let's add in the concept of cost-plus contracts, where the contractors make more money the more they spend. There's no incentive to build anything for a reasonable cost, and no incentive not to keep piling on the extensions and overruns.

    So simple things, like better body armor and better defense for humvees and the cheap electronic ID-things mentioned in the article, which aren't sexy (but save lives), don't get the attention of the Big Contractors nor their political funders.

    I'm kinda surprised that Raytheon hasn't tried to stamp out the little guys ...

  30. Re:Mobile fingerprint kit? by emurphy42 · · Score: 2, Informative

    Exactly what good do fingerprints do you? Or even photos of suspected insurgents?

    From TFA:

    Beyond Baghdad, the U.S. role has become less about killing insurgents than arresting the worst and isolating them from the population. Obviously it would help to have an electronic database of who the bad guys are, their friends, where they live, tribal affiliation--in short the insurgency's networks.

    The Marine and Army officers who patrol Iraq's dangerous places know they need an identification system similar to cops back home. The troops now write down suspects' names and addresses. Some, like Marine Maj. Owen West in Anbar, have created their own spreadsheets and PowerPoint programs, or use digital cameras to input the details of suspected insurgents. But no Iraq-wide software architecture exists.
  31. From the submitter by chris-chittleborough · · Score: 2, Informative
    When I submitted the article, I should have included a link to Bill Roggio's blog post about deploying the device. D'oh.

    I'm glad to see my submission sparking some good discussion. (But I was surprised that only toupsie (heh!) caught the reference to a book by Glenn Reynolds, AKA Instapundit.)

    It's true that the DoD has good reasons for requiring equipment to be "infantry-proof". The difference between "good" and "good enough" matters in most fields of human activity, and has done for millennia. The infantry themselves often prefer quick and dirty; this device is, in a way, just another of thousands of in-the-field innovations ... only a lot more high-tech.