Ballmer Repeats Threats Against Linux
daria42 writes "Steve Ballmer has reissued Microsoft's patent threat against Linux, warning open-source vendors that they must respect his company's intellectual property. In a no-nonsense presentation to New York financial analysts last week, Microsoft's chief executive said the company's partnership with Novell, which it signed in November 2006, "demonstrated clearly the value of intellectual property, even in the open-source world.""
I wonder how Balmer thinks that they are going to sue something that no one owns, that no one made.
Is he going to sue anyone who uses this?
Is he going to sue those who hoste the code?
From the article it seems it is mostly the Linux vendors that Ballmer wants to target.
The US is, as far as I know, the only country that has implented all these sick software patent laws until now, how are they going to sue a UK based company?
With the current state of things the worst that could happen is that companies stop using Linux in the US, I don't see how they want to sue anyone based in Europe?
Would the US government then start supporting Microsoft in trade wars?
This whole software patent thing is beyond my understanding, I wonder if anyone out there really get the idea behind this?
IBM is still digging into SCO's near corpse to find the detials of SCO's accusations. Which were, are and for ever more shall be totally bogus.
Ballmer needs to stop saying "they stole our IP" and start citing versions, files, lines and patent numbers. Otherwise Microsoft looks like a bigger SCO. And that is not a pretty picture for a company like Microsoft intends itself to be.
To: Steve Ballmer
Dear sir,
Either file suit against the parties infringing on your precious IP, or SHUT THE FUCK UP.
Sincerely,
Everyone
P.S. - Vista blows donkey balls.
Insisting on "correct" English is like saying that there is only one, definitive recipe for chili.
Ballmer's Thought Process:
Hmmm Vista is floundering and we need to distract the press from this and the piracy angle isn't working... what can we do... oh yeah, let's threaten open source, that should distract them.
Alternately
Hmmm Vista sales are floundering, and even I'm not stupid enough to really think it's piracy causing it, Hmmmm.... it must be that open source stuff, time to threaten to sue somebody.
.technomancer
Hobbyists and free software advocates have succeeded where Bill Gates said they could not. They have put out a usable, alternative to solution to just about everything. This irritates people in the lock'em'in software business, as suddenly now they have competition that not only won't just go away, but is demanding and developing alternative standards to proprietary formats.
They are not only threatening as a competitor, but they threaten companies like MS with eventual obsolescence. And let's face it: no company wants to deal with something that will eventually put them out of business if it succeeds.
What's funny about Linux is that it is sort of a Microsoft tactic to get rid of competitors, namely, we'll give it away. That's how they put Netscape out of business, how they attained so much market share in media players, etc. Linux is the ultimate "we'll give it away" solution, giving away everything even the OS.
You can see why software businesses could feel threatened by Linux, but legally, they probably don't have a leg to stand on either way. Nobody can say they own a patent to a generic GUI, when Apple, MS, OS/2, etc. etc. have all used GUIs. Linux is in little to no legal trouble. But it's the last leg that they can stand on when competing for enterprise marketshare when all the other FUD runs through.
They are protecting what may soon be a failing business model: the proprietary software development house.
Judges and senates have been bought for gold; Esteem and love were never to be sold.
How long ago was it that Microsoft was complaining that the better product should prevail due to competition and not through litigation in the courts?
Seems that they are now changing their tune... I'm not surprised...
Here's the threat. The Business Software Alliance already can come in and audit companies for bootleg copies of Microsoft software. If they've forced their way in to do an audit anyway, and they find "unauthorized copies" of Microsoft-claimed "IP" - which is to say, Linux running - then in the future they can try to levy the same penalties against you as they currently do for running more copies of Office than you can produce licenses for.
From our perspective, this absolutely has to be stopped. But the BSA already has the legal authority to get in the door in many cases, and once they're looking at your systems for Microsoft wares, they'd better be checking the Linux boxes for Word running under Wine anyway - so checking them for Linux is a minor afterthought.
"with their freedom lost all virtue lose" - Milton
It's already a failing business model. Unfortunately, they're doing the same thing the RIAA is- paying the government to keep them afloat.
Microsoft isn't the only one- look at Autodesk.
Care about privacy? Read this!
Microsoft spent the last 20 years copying ideas from Apple, Netscape, Sun, AOL, Burst, and Google -- and now they have the nerve to complain that Linux looks like Windows??
In both cases there would be a brief chilling effect on the competition -- until the offending IP is pulled out of the Linux core and it is recompiled, at which point M$ has nothing. Except that in the mean time they may get hauled back into court for anti-monopoly practices, and that offending the highly intelligent Linux community is about as smart as kicking over a nest of fire ants -- because every major bit of M$ released code will be targeted for suing M$ for their own patent infringing code, etc.
So Ballmer's threat is akin to a robber pulling a gun in a doughnut shop only to discover that he is surrounded by a room full of well-armed, motivated policeman who would like nothing more than to put his sorry a$$ back where it belongs. We all know this, and M$ knows it as well. But so long as he can sell a few more copies of Vista, XP, etc. Ballmer has little to lose by acting the bully in the mean time.
...Open Source isn't the only answer -- but it's almost always a better value than the alternatives...
otherwise MS would actually name the patents, so Open-Source projects would avaoid them, and so Open-Source users would be confident of their status.
But confidence in Opoen-Source is exactly what MS doesn't want.
Fizz
It's just a FUD campaign.
If they had a real argument they would have taken it to court by now. Failure to do so would be contrary to MSFT shareholder interests.
Shame on us, the Linux community, for stealing things like graphical interfaces and claiming it's ours.
Shame on us for stealing enhanced search ideas and claiming it's ours.
Oh, wait...
Mod points are a dangerous tool. Abuse them wisely.
It occurs to me that any linux expert who inspected the microsoft code or infringement on linux or other patents would then be "polluted" with regard to further linux work.
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
Remember folks, Ballmer was talking to financial analysts, not technology people. Ballmer loves to grandstand when he's talking to money. And someday his big mouth is going to get him in trouble.
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This sabre rattling against Linux has potential adverse effects for the entire economy, if Microsoft is able to push Windows into every corner. Windows is just terrible in certain situations, such as ATMs and aruably, pocket PCs and handheld devices. Perhaps the government should be looking into anti-trust; we need to see competition in the market place for operating systems.
I wish to GOD all you pro-FOSS people could be sent back to the IT industry of the 70's so you could EXPERIENCE the 666-kinds of HELL that it was being in IT when no two computer manufacturer's systems were interoperable (cripes even most computers from the SAME manufacturer required significant effort to work co-operatively unless they were identical models!). -- On a side note, this probably goes a long way to explaining why IBM is so enthralled with this approach: through it they see a return to the era when that business-model allowed them to rule the IT world.
Anyway, getting back to my point, at least if you could actually spend some time in that technological quagmire, you'd get a clue as to why that glow that YOU see coming off your idea of 80,000+ home-brewed Linux distros scattered across a hundred million unique installations ISN'T some nirvana-like halo, but rather the resurgent glow of the burning pits that we all crawled out of 25 years ago...
Going from a time of near-global compatibility and interoperability (now) to virtually zero of either (without significant individual knowledge of C/C++ and the MAKE utility) (as you imagine it) is TRULY a trip back into hell...
Makes me wonder if some small garage GNU/Linux shop can't sue Microsoft for these statements. Some garage shop with an annual revenue stream in the 10's of thousands( or less ) so that any counter suit, if any, couldn't justify millions or billions, dozens of lawyers over years like the SCO case has done. Just a quiet local court case to see WTF Balmer is talking about and to get this out in the open ASAP.
I was really disappointed that Iowa was bought-out by MSFT like all the others. I was just getting used to the Friday night laughs from public court documents from that case. And was so looking forward to hearing the MSFT Execs on the stand.
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
Because who else except a floundering closed-source company that bought a Linux distro in a desperate attempt to find a new business model could unanimously act as IP Position spokesman for the entire "open source world", as His Ballmerness so eloquently put it?
I'm not going to change your sheets again, Mr. Hastings.
Just as the SCO matter looks like winding down (with The SCO Group running out of money to fund the bogus legal action) up pops Microsoft repeating exactly the same accusations and, in the same manner as Darl, not identifying the IP that they claim is theirs.
It's time to challenge Microsoft. Either identify by file and line, the code that they believe is their IP or shut up.
Linux source is visible to all. Even Ballmer can download and grep through it. SCO did and couldn't find their IP.
Microsoft think that they are legally untouchable. Prove them wrong.
Secretary: Darkness came with them, and they cried with the voices of death
Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
I think you are right; but, more interesting is the whole question of whether software patents serve any public good at all. The original reason for patents is to see to it that inventors are rewarded for innovations that might be very expensive to develop. It seems to me that a lot software patents tend to look like someone patenting air. The expensive part of software development is almost constant in a given software development process. The special little algorithms that people develop don't look the same to me as the car Alternator. (I think that was a Chrysler innovation.)
Take 100 groups of people working on the problems solved by some of these patents. Now project how many of these groups would fail to solve the problem. Would the answer be larger than 1 in most cases? The only utility of software patents is to increase the number of billable hours in corporate law firms.
that Microsoft funded/used/fronted SCO for a dummy run to see how the world would respond, and what mistakes not to make when MS do their own run against Linux.
Given that the SCO case is still ongoing (just), it seems Microsoft is setting up for the longest legal battle in history. This makes sense as it is just their same old tried-and-tested strategy where they would just basically tie competition up in so much red tape that they went under from excessive legal bills. It seems Microsoft can't innovative in their business or legal strategy as well as their products.
Microsoft can only win against Linux if they fight a war of attrition, because their argument has no real merit but MS do have almost limitless financial/legal resources so any sort of business entity that is in the Linux camp will really need to watch out.
The good thing is that the very nature of Open Source is that millions of individuals contribute, meaning Microsoft has to sue the world (read: including their own customer base) to really win.
If the bloated corporations abusing intellectual property law started suing each other into bankrupcy, the downside would be... what, exactly?
Bring it, Monkey Boy.
It was a huge mistake trying to tarnish the open source community by financing the SCO fiasco. All that did is get them angry and organized. Now they know how to respond to vague IP threats. If there was anything remotely indecent about the code in Linux, it would have already turned up. Instead SCO provides a Linux code proof set, public record to back it up and a convenient online repository for all the case documentation.
If this is Microsoft threatening Linux, then they're doing it will all the skill and clarity they demonstrated developing Zune.
Maybe if you'd shut up and build an operating system worth a crap and stop treating your customers like criminals, Linux wouldn't be nearly so much competition. But that's too much like real work. Isn't that right, fat boy?
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
I agree, Ballmer is a bully. Ballmer has taken his ignorant behavior to an extreme, in my opinion: He is a prime example of someone who lacks social skills and technical insight, who can only survive in a technical world by being adversarial toward those who would rather not have a fight.
Don't forget: Microsoft's Zune music player is named after Creative's excellent Zen Player. Aside from being morally criminal to infringe on someone else's intellectual property, it's just mean.
If the world were technically knowledgeable enough not to be locked into Microsoft's file formats and virtual OS monopoly, and other adversarial behavior, Microsoft could not make a profit.
I am amazed this has not been done already. Some authority figure in the open source community (be it RMS, Linus, FSF, RedHat -- whatever) must stand up and say "what patents?". They must write an open letter to Ballmer asking him to disclose with specificity what patents he believes apply to Linux, what parts of Linux (file, version, lines of code) he believes infringe on said patents, etc. This is the only way to stop the FUD. If Microsoft replies, we can either remove the allegedly infringing code or debunk their claims. If Microsoft fails to reply, everyone will see that they are full of shit. Either way we come out ahead.
/. till you're blue in the face, but until there is an official response from an open source authority figure the FUD will not stop.
It would be worthwhile to point out that the strategy of vague, unsubstantiated accusations has already failed for Microsoft's minion, SCO, when IBM asked them in legal filings the exact same question and it turned out that SCO was bluffing all along.
You can post here on
___
If you think big enough, you'll never have to do it.
Everyone loses when lawyers get rich gaming the system of laws that they created.
Blar.
IBM has 300,000 employees. Sun has 40,000. Microsoft has 71,000.
If those companies all suddenly went under, that would be ~411,000 people out of work, including a large number of developers and maintainers of critical OSS projects. That's a whole lot of people who would suddenly need to turn their attention from their side-projects and onto more crucial issues, like eating. Many of those people would probably be forced to leave the tech sector to find work, and if you're not doing something computer-related in your 9-to-5, it's a lot more difficult to stay current in the field, and keep your level of interest up. A whole lot of talent would just move on to other, non-IT things.
It would probably cause a stock-selling panic that could bankrupt other tech companies. (Hell, IBM and MSFT are basically blue chips; if they collapsed, the whole economy would catch a cold.) The resulting salary depression would make IT-related occupations a basically impossible way to make a living, and drive generations of future students away from the field. (I mean, when programming pays worse than pizza delivery, why spend $50k in school?) Not to mention the fact that IBM in particular is one of the few companies doing anything akin to basic research any more. Who's going to keep doing that, Dell? I don't think so.
Saying that those three companies could annihilate each other without any fallout or collateral damage is ridiculous.
Sure, the lights probably wouldn't go out in Manhattan, but it would be the worst thing to happen to the high-tech industry since the dot-com bubble burst, and it would probably even dwarf that.
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
IP does not exist.
/not a lawyer.
Patents
Copyrights
Methods and Concepts
Trademarks
Which one?
What file and line number of Linux does he claim infringes?
Without that he is failing to mitigate damages, which is his responsibility.
I am the unwilling control for my Origin.
Hey d3xt3r,
Patents are published and can therefore be read by linux developers.
You sir, are ignorant.
meh
Now they've identified Linux as a competitor. And they're embarking on a campaign of FUD to soften their competitor up for crushing. This time it's different, though. Linux isn't a company or a person (not even Linus) - it's a collaborative effort of hundreds or thousands of developers all over the world. Individually they may be "weak" but as Linux they're very, very strong. Strong enough to stand up to Microsoft - and deal that monopolist some real damage.
SCO was a test case; use those fools in Utah to run a feint against a perceived foe. That's not turning out well; their patsy is about to have their hind parts handed to them in court. The resultant smoking crater should be informative to Ballmer & Co., but it's not likely they're sufficiently clueful to walk away from a bad end.
So they'll continue to rattle sabres - and when Ballmer & Co. whip themselves up to a sufficient level of courage to do battle with the Linux beast, they'll get their hind parts handed to them as well. It won't be a pretty battle and many, many outsiders will be called upon to assist the Microsofties in their campaign. Ultimately, it won't make any difference. They're going to set themselves against the vast army of developers and be consumed in the resulting deflagragration.
Watch carefully - Ballmer & Co. are experts in decimating their competition. They've never imagined that they'd come up against an implacable foe much, much larger than themselves. That day is coming very soon and the IT world will never be the same afterward.