States Seek Laws to Curb Online Bullying

An anonymous reader writes to tell us that many states are considering laws to help crack down on "cyberbullying". "Steven Brown, executive director of the Rhode Island branch of the American Civil Liberties Union, said it will be difficult to draft a cyberbullying law that doesn't infringe on free-speech rights. 'The fact that two teenagers say nasty things about each other is a part of growing up,' he said. 'How much authority does a school have to monitor, regulate and punish activities occurring inside a student's home?' In Arkansas, the state Senate this month passed a bill calling on school districts to set up policies to address cyberbullying only after it was amended to settle concerns about students' free-speech rights."

Comments

Moo

[Chacham]

Dupe.

Reagan said it of government, i say it of schools. Replace the "government" with "school" and "economic" with "scholastic" from here.

The economic ills we suffer have come upon us over several decades. They will not go away in days, weeks, or months, but they will go away. They will go away because we as Americans have the capacity now, as we've had in the past, to do whatever needs to be done to preserve this last and greatest bastion of freedom.

In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. From time to time we've been tempted to believe that society has become too complex to be managed by self-rule, that government by an elite group is superior to government for, by, and of the people. Well, if no one among us is capable of governing himself, then who among us has the capacity to govern someone else? All of us together, in and out of government, must bear the burden. The solutions we seek must be equitable, with no one group singled out to pay a higher price.

The law would not even be useful

[Noonian Soong]

Laws are not the key to solving social problems - education is. While I would say that in some cases a law may change the public perception of a situation and may even change something, with teenagers this will most likely not work. It may even have the opposite effect than intended - it might make bullying "cooler" because you're breaking a law.

Another question is what should happen to the people breaking that law? Do we want to have teenagers to pay fines for it or do we let them do social work somewhere? Will that have the intended effect on them?

Like the article stated, teachers need to talk to their students and the parents need to participate in this as well. Nobody should feel good by bullying someone else and this cannot be achieved by passing a law.

Re:The law would not even be useful

[Chacham]

teachers need to talk to their students and the parents need to participate in this as well.

Absolutely not! That is completely backwards!

Parents need to talk to their students and the teachers to reinforce this as well.

Re:The law would not even be useful

[Touvan]

As a parent I disagree with your statement, on it's face. Sure, it's my responsibility to teach my children to do the right thing, and I surely do that to the best of my ability.

Still, it remains fact that not all kids have parents that are going to teach vital life skills, like how to organize, study, and get along with others. It remains fact that the rest of us, and our children still have to deal with these less than prepared people, and their children. And it remains fact, that schools can and should do something about it.

We just need the political and social will to make policies that teach this stuff. There are plenty of books on the subject, some even demonstrating what can be done by both teachers and parents, such as "They Don't Like Me: Lessons on Bullying and Teasing from a Preschool Classroom".

In an ideal world, parents would all do the right thing. In reality, many of them are not prepared for the task, and could use a little help. For the sake of the rest of us, and for their sake, I think we should address that reality.

Re:The law would not even be useful

[Touvan]

Ah, see there was a miscommunication on my part. I didn't say the teacher should talk to the class. I said said the teacher should organize a group discussion and let the students explain why they engaged in the behavior, to understand how that made everyone involved feel, and to try to come up with a better way to deal with the problem the next time.

I bet your teachers never did that - neither did mine, though they did do a lot of finger wagging.

I think it is important who's fault it is though, since it's often the case, that everyone involved, including the bystanders that is at fault.

Also, I knew lots of guys in school that were constantly punished to "deter bad behavior" and you know, it just didn't seem to work. It was always the same guys that got punished, and they eventually dropped out, and some of them are even dead now (I'm 27). They are still belligerent, and never really did figure out how to interact with others. It would have been great if someone could have showed them how.

I was sincere about that book recommendation (They Don't Like Me). The whole book is written in kind of a journal like way, where she describes the events of a school year as she tried to implement the "You can't say, they can't play" rule set, which she herself didn't think would work at the beginning. Needless to say, her mind was changed by the end.

Also, this kind of policy has to be introduced early in a child's social experience, IMO. I'd say pre-K to 1st grade. I'm not sure it would have as great an affect on older school kids, for all the reasons you described. But we have to teach these kids how to act like civilized human beings, especially if they are not learning it at home.

This shit is out of control

[Hubbell]

The answer isn't to shield kids from bullying, it's to teach them how to deal with it. Someone talks shit, get up in their face and make them back it up or back the fuck off. Someone shoves you, you deck them. I tried the ignore them stuff until I was a Junior in High School, at which point I started forcing kids to put up or shut up. Someone started running their mouth? Got right in their face less than a foot away and told them, either hit me or shut the fuck up, cause talkin shit is for pussies. Someone shoved me? They got thrown against a locker and told if they wanna get physical, they better be ready to fight. Wanna know what happened once I started doing that? Wouldn't ya know it, they stopped that shit, hell some of them even became good friends of mine after a while. Acting like a little bitch and running for someone else to protect you or shield you from the evils of the world isn't productive, it's how things like Columbine happen. Back in the day there weren't school shootings cause kids weren't taught to be little girls and cry everytime someone was mean, they were taught to stand up for themselves.

Re:This shit is out of control

[ArcherB]

Someone talks shit, get up in their face and make them back it up or back the fuck off.

They may be kinda hard for the crippled kid who receives shit every day because he has to use a walker.

Re:This shit is out of control

[GiovanniZero]

Oh how I wish it could be like that. When I was in high school, if someone walked up to me that I had never seen before and punched me in the face I would be suspended. That was the rule. That is what is so stupid about our system.

Laws leave room for self defense where schools do not. I was once jumped by 5 kids and somehow I was the one that got in trouble, oh yeah probably because I fought back.

If our system keeps on breeding people like this we're just going to have more columbines and more extreme violence. A couple kids getting in a fight might be bad but it's probably not as bad as letting them build up whatever hate they have before exploding.

Re:This shit is out of control

[Marko DeBeeste]

They take out a knife, you take out a gun.

They send one of yours to the hospital, you send one of theirs to the morgue.

That's the Chicago way.

Re:This shit is out of control

[jellomizer]

I think the Parent is assuming the normal Suburban school situations. In more Urban areas where Gangs are present fighting back alone is sucide, because they will be back with their gang.

Re:This shit is out of control

[Anonymous Coward]

Interesting . . ..

I have the opposite set of personal experience and memories.

My parents were very careful to teach me that physical threats, emotional responses, and physical replies to such represent animalistic behavior. Because they worked as hard as they did to reinforce this concept in me, when I was in school and some punk came up and tried to bully me, I treated him like a barking dog, because that is EXACTLY how much significance he had in my mind.

I walked away. I didn't run. I didn't find someone to protect me. I knew that I was demonstrating my existence as a human being by refusing to join them in animalistic behavior.

Yes, as a side note, when I discovered Frank Herbert, I enjoyed the read.

Different strokes for different folks. That's the beauty of our variances.

Re:This shit is out of control

[p0tat03]

Mod parent up. Confrontation only works when you're in a predominantly middle-class suburban setting. In settings where gangs are common, doing something like the GP is incredibly dangerous. Sock one in the face? Welcome to the ICU, if you're lucky.

IMHO the answer to bullying is not "toughen up, hit 'em back", nor is it a bunch of inane laws that cannot ever be enforced. It all comes down to the school's ability to discipline their students, and the parents' willingness to discipline their children.

No amount of school-enforced punishment will be effective if the child goes home and is congratulated by the parent(s) for bullying yet another high school loser. I know of many parents who would do just such a thing, without realizing the kind of little monsters they are creating.

People bully in order to use the misery of others as a way to elevate themselves in the eyes of their peers. Nobody bullies alone, the mob mentality is a critical component of that behavior. Until the majority of people have no tolerance for bullying, and will stand up not only for themselves but others as well when bullied, this kind of thing will continue.

And it is unfortunate. For someone caught in bullying (like I once was) there is simply no way out. If you're in a safe enough environment you can sock 'em in the face and be done with it, but if they're part of the Chinese mafia there's really nothing you can do. Schools have their hands tied to giving out punishments that don't even amount to slaps on the wrist, and most often if a child has gotten to that point his/her parents are probably douchebags who can't be bothered to discipline their own children. In this case there is absolutely nothing a bullied child can do.

People often look at the bullied kids that snap, and point out the ills of our society (rap music, comic books, video games, whatever the problem du jour is). I for one sympathize with many of them. It is difficult for people who have never been bullied to comprehend the level of powerlessness that it instills in you. I've gone through a lot of crap since high school, and everything pales in comparison to the sheer powerless terror that you walk into school with every morning. In our modern atmosphere of classifying everything bad as "terrorism", it's a damned shame that bullying is not, 'cos IMHO it's probably the closest thing to terrorism that happens regularly in America.

Disclaimer: I do not condone nor endorse the actions of the ones that snap. I am merely saying that I can see why they did, and where they were coming from. When you are in a constant state of terror and fear, and live in a society that tolerates and seemingly encourages it, with absolutely no system or people to turn to, certain crazy things start looking not-as-crazy.

Re:This shit is out of control

[gfxguy]

We were fighting in school long before Columbine. There's been fighting in schools ever since there's been schools.

I've made it clear to my kids that they cannot start a fight. However, regardless of school policy, if they fight back they have my support 100%. There are long term effects to the psyche by learning not to stand up for yourself and backing down to every threat.

I've wailed on guys a lot bigger than me for bullying, and even when I lost they stopped bullying me because they knew I'd fight back.

The best defense for verbal abuse is eye-rolling and walking away. That pisses people off a lot more than trying to come back with some snarky retort and failing, or being a big baby about it and crying to the teacher (which makes things worse 100% of the time).

Re:This shit is out of control

[Lockejaw]

The nanny state is neither a liberal nor a conservative ideal. It is an authoritarian one. There are authoritarian liberals and authoritarian conservatives.

Re:is it bullying when your frost piss is -1 ed?

[Ctrl Alt De1337]

No, but it is still stupidity when you miss that "Post Anonymously" check box there above the submit button.

Doubleyew Tee Eff, Mate

[Pojut]

much authority does a school have to monitor, regulate and punish activities occurring inside a student's home

They shouldn't have any authority as to what goes on inside a student's home. In fact, they shouldn't have any authority what goes on outside of their campus.

Home? That should be the parents domain. Now, if the parents go and actually ask the school for help, well that's different...same thing goes with the student, if he asks for the school's help then they should help.

Unless they are asked for their assistance, school's should have ZERO input on what goes on OUTSIDE of their campus. The only time I would disagree with that is if something is happening, the parents are unaware, and the child wont tell them.

Ugh

[TheRealMindChild]

I just watched something on TV about Cyber-bullying. This obese girl demonstrated how she was constantly picked on over the internet. The result? She was getting floods of IM's from about 3 people saying nasty things. She begins crying like her life is over. Apparently, right clicking on their screenname and click "block this user" is too dificult a solution :|

Damn ACLU

[ArcherB]

While I think this law is stupid as well, it is because of enforcement reasons, not free speech.

Give me a friggin break! Since when is bullying protected under free speech rights? What the hell is NOT protected under free speech? Can I smoke at work as a protest against the proletariat? Can I smack around some ACLU lawyers to show my displeasure with NAMBLA? Would the ACLU protect my right to do so? Could 9-11 be considered "Protest Terrorism"?

I love the Bill of Rights more than the next guy, but the ACLU needs to get a friggin grip!

Re:Damn ACLU

[Daniel Dvorkin]

None of the activities you mention are speech. Posting nasty messages about someone online clearly is speech. Don't tell me you can't see the difference.

Re:Damn ACLU

[hamburger lady]

CWhat the hell is NOT protected under free speech? Can I smoke at work as a protest against the proletariat?

smoking isn't speech.

Can I smack around some ACLU lawyers to show my displeasure with NAMBLA?

physical assault isn't speech.

Could 9-11 be considered "Protest Terrorism"?

blowing up buildings isn't speech.

Stupid Stupid STUPID

[zappepcs]

The government cannot regulate morals, at least they *shouldn't*.

There are laws for slander, libel, and other manner of social discord that allow us to deal with such problems already. The fact that the Internet and computers have added a new dimension to society does not mean that we need new laws. We simply need to revise current laws to include this new dimension.

That it happens in a school social setting is not new, as was stated, but the lack of training for students as to what constitutes libel, slander, or other actions that could result in litigation or penalties is sad.

Education is what is needed, not regulation. Less government, not more. Intelligence, not money will go the furthest towards eliminating such problems.

Yes, I believe that if they break a law on the Internet, it is a civil courts place to punish that person rather than the school's place. No more he said, she said. Lets have them show the judge and let the judge decide if there is anything to punish. Perhaps a special court to streamline such cases, but make it court. Punishment is then meted out in a legally binding way rather than arbitrary decisions of school leaders.

Punishments for minors is not a bad thing as schools, parks, and other public places need cleaning and looking after. A little community service gives them time to think about what they did.

Um... No?

[KingSkippus]

At least, I hope not. Free speech is something that we shouldn't have a double standard about.

I admit it—I was bullied when I was a kid. And yet, I still don't believe that government should step in to force kids (or anyone, for that matter) to take down their personal, non-school web sites.

I'm not sure why you're assuming that /.'ers will in general put overprotectionism over free speech. I'd guess the exact opposite.

Stop bullying IN the school first!

[HTH NE1]

The authority of the school should end where the school grounds end.

Do something about bullying on campus first before claiming any authority off campus. Something other than Zero Tolerance which punishes the victims disproportionally because the perpetrators know how not to get caught (or is on the sports team).

And stop putting one Good Kid between two troublemakers just because you can't police your own classroom.

And where the hell does a public school get the authority to force the whole student bodychool to attend a funeral in the gym during school hours for one of those two troublemakers who died playing chicken against the other one! Where every student had to walk past the damn open casket! And then the first students through decided to hug the parents, so everyone after them felt they had to too! The school even posted teachers at the exits so no one would leave and never told anyone that attendance was voluntary!