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Golfer Sues Over Vandalized Wikipedia Entry
coondoggie writes "Pro golfer Fuzzy Zoeller is suing to track down the author of what Zoeller says is a defamatory paragraph about him on the Wikipedia site. In an Associated Press story Zoeller's attorney, Scott Sheftall, said he filed a lawsuit against a Miami firm last week because the law won't allow him to sue Wikipedia."
So what's the story...the fact that he's doing the right thing here?
He's suing the correct person for (if the accusations are true - and you've seen Wikipedia troll edits, they probably are) a legitimate reason. So the story is that he's not an idiot suing Wikipedia like the rest of the idiots would?
ACs are modded -6. I don't read you, I don't mod you, I don't see you. Don't like it? Don't be a coward.
Did he legitamately say that stuff, or is it just made up stuff about him? If he really said it, why should it not go on his permanent record?
God spoke to me.
Pro golfer Fuzzy Zoeller is suing to track down the author of what Zoeller says is a defamatory paragraph about him on the Wikipedia site.
Is that the one that says the number of lawsuits he's filing against Wikipedia has tripled in the last six months?
The theory of relativity doesn't work right in Arkansas.
He didn't sue the law firm because he can't sue Wikipedia so much as he sued the origin of the IP address from which the edits came (which happened to be a law firm) rather than Wikipedia , because he was unlikely to win against Wikipedia. Strictly speaking, there are very few cases (none that I can think of) where you just can't sue (whether the suit survives a 12(b) motion to dismiss -- especially 12(b)(2) and 12(b)(6) -- is another issue entirely).
He was asking for it.
But isn't it technically free speech to defame someone?
First if it is something written it's libel, not defamation. Secondly, you're only allowed to do it if what you claim is actually true. If you're just making stuff up about someone then you're probably going to have to cough up.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
Technically, yes. And you can't be criminally prosecuted for something of that nature, nor can it be restrained in advance. There is probably an exception for conspiracy to commit an actual crime. However, if you say something untrue that damages someone, you can be held liable for those damages. If the speech is printed, it's called libel; if spoken it is called slander.
Floating face-down in a river of regret...and thoughts of you...
You mean "libel, not slander." Slander and libel are both forms of defamation.
In case someone is wondering what makes Fuzzy notorious, here's the goods. Pretty stupid, but he apologized later (and I think very well).
He can't sue Wikipedia, so he's suing the next closest target.
Sounds like Fuzzy Logic to me.
"Is that the one that says the number of lawsuits he's filing against Wikipedia has tripled in the last six months?"
Unprecedented in the 759 years of American History. When Wikipedia was formed at the Magna Carta Summit I'm sure they never thought this would happen.
Need Mercedes parts ?
If I remember my libel law properly, just because it's false doesn't make it libel (at least in the states). For something to be libelous:
1) It must be false
2) It must have been uttered in *full knowledge of its falsehood*, or in reckless disregard for the truth.
3) It must have been uttered with "actual malace"
To collect damages one must also prove:
a) A reasonable party might have believed the statement
b) A reasonable party, upon hearing/reading it, would have through less of the victim
So in defending a libel case you've got three bright line defenses:
It was true. Prove this and you go home.
It was *reaonsably believed to be true* at the time of utterance. Prove this and you go home.
It was uttered without malice. Prove this and you go home.
Then you've got some wiggle room on the defamation half:
Sure it was malicious and libelous, but nobody would believe it
Sure it was malicious and libelous, and everyone believed it, but the plaintif had a crappy reputation to start with and the statements didn't make it materially worse.
Short version is that defending a libel case in the states is usually easy unless the case in truly eggregious.
I may make you feel, but I can't make you think.
I would think it highly optimistic to think that Wikipedia can't be sued.
No. As I mentioned elsewhere under this story, Wikipedia can't be sued for libelous information put there by users, by virtue of the only good part of the CDA, 47 USC 230. No need to be skeptical about it; it's been applied numerous times in the decade or so it's been around, and it is very protective of people and service providers online who aren't the original sources of the information at issue. Look it up.
-- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
Well, no.
In a nutshell, you can tell deliberate lies that hurt people's feelings, but you can't tell deliberate lies that cause them some kind of economic damage (in a rather wide sense,to be sure).
So, you can tell your friends that your roommate is a pathological liar, knowing it is false and will hurt his feelings. But you can't call up the company that he's interviewing with and say that without risking his coming after you for damages for slander. You can't tell your neighbor's wife that her husband is secretly HIV positive, becuase the law puts a value on things like conjugal relations.
There's all kinds of nuances and gray areas in defamation, but a starting point is that when you do deliberate harm to somebody, and it is harm of a nature that the law thinks can be reasonably balanced by moving a sum of money from your bank account to his, you are in trouble. The rest is just elaboration.
Another aspect of free speech is that while some forms of speech are punishable, in general there is a very strong bias under free speech against preventive measures. You can't sue somebody becuase they might defame you in the future (as far as I know). The government can't shut down your newspaper because you are just the sort of pinko who might publish state secrets. One way of thinking about this is that freedom doesn't necessarily mean freedom from consequences. This is why civil disobedience is important. If you want to punish somebody because he is going to break the law, you can simply disappear him. In a free society, you have wait until he is actually doing a crime, then you arrest him and as you try him publicly in a court of law, you are tried yourself in the court of public opinion. So the freedom to commit civil disobedience is an important freedom, one which is meaningless unless it results in a punishment.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
You gotta admit: if that paragraph isn't true, it is definitely libel by its defaming nature. Most people would be angry if this were in their own wikipedia entry. I know the Slashdot title is sensationalist, but in all honesty, I can see why he'd want to sue.
Actually, his article has received the same fate as the article on elephants, and John Seigenthaler, and others that have been the target of media attention or coordinated vandalism: experienced Wikipedians swarm the article to defend it, and end up improving it significantly. This sort of thing has always proven good for the respective articles in particular and Wikipedia in general.
I'd being suing whoever gave me that nickname if I were him...
This sig is false.
You do know he is not suing Wikipedia, right? He tracked the IP of the person who posted the allegedly libelous comments in Wikipedia to Josef Silny & Associates, a Miami law firm. He is suing them, probably hoping they will tell him which of their employees he should be suing instead.
I don't care why you're posting AC
As a Wikibook administratos I can tell you that the WikiMedia software never deletes anything - it is just hidden from the general public. If you have a legitimate reason to look at deleted entries you can ask an Administrator to make the data available to you.
Martin
The story is actually that someone's finally doing something to defuse, well, what Penny Arcade called the Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory. (Normal Person + Anonymity + Audience = Total Fuckwad.) There are a lot of people who did just that: took the supposed anonymity of the internet as just an oportunity to harrass, defame, cause grief, etc.
It can be a lot of damage even if you're not an "ImportantPerson(TM)", because we live in an age where bosses google their employees, neighbours google each other, and the village gossip googles the whole freakin' village for some gossip material. We're also in an age where people might glue posters to your door or drive you out of town because they found someone else by the same name rumoured to be a sex offender in some anonymous blog, or as was once the case because they were too stupid to know what "paeditrician" means. (It's a kind of doctor, not a paedophile.) We also live in an age of hypocrisy where someone might hold some rumour against you, not because they believe it, not because they are any better, but because it doesn't fit their bullshit PR corporate image.
So basically carpet bombing the internet, Wikipedia included, with bits of defamation like "JohnTurner admitted in 2007 that he was trying hard to overcome his kiddy porn addiction" or "JohnTurner said he stopped beating his wife nowadays" or "see JohnTurner's guide to surfing for porn undetected at work and using the corporate appserver as a warez site. Excellent reading." can cause a lot of harm even if you're not some celebrity.
E.g., the HR drone for your next job googles you, they don't have the time or the inclination to do a thorough checking. Most of what everyone does at all stages is actually looking for some excuse, any excuse, no matter how lame, to discard as many candidates as possible. It can be just because they didn't like your email provider, or it can be literally by numerology or tarot. (Don't laugh, it's not a joke, there _are_ companies which use numerology or tarot to thin out the candidates pool. Assign a number to each letter in your name, sum them up, sum the digits up until you get a single digit, see if it matches the sum for the company name. If not, your CV goes directly into the garbage bin.) The underlying assumption is that you're just yet another dime-a-dozen peon in a sea of perfectly replaceable and interchangeable peons. PHBs love that assumption. So noone's going to do a thorough checking just for you, see the context, see if such a guide to surfing for porn actually exists anywhere, etc. They'll just google until something bad comes up, then stop.
And it's maybe not a bad thing that someone is suing such a fuckwad and proving once again that anonymity isn't as granted as people think. Sure, noone will bother getting your name out of the ISP if you just posted on Slashdot during work hours, but if you take the step to actively harrass and defame someone, or break any other law, all that anonymity may well be harder to maintain than just being behind a modem. For a lot of people it might just take the essential component out of that greater internet fuckwad recipe. It may even be a good thing.
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