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Canadian Border Tightens Due to Info Sharing
blu3 b0y writes "The San Francisco Chronicle is reporting that new information sharing agreements have made it as easy for a Canadian border officer to know the full criminal records of US citizens as it is for their local police. As a result, Canadian officials are turning away American visitors for ancient minor convictions, including 30-year-old shoplifting and minor drug possession convictions. Officials claim it's always been illegal to enter Canada with such convictions without getting special dispensation, they just had no good way of knowing about them until recent security agreements allowed access. One attorney speculates it's not long before this information will be shared with other countries as well, causing immigration hassles worldwide."
Hah!
you should read everything on the internet as if it had "but I'm probably talking out of my ass" appended to it.
So if you were convicted for dodging the Vietnam draft by going to Canada, which the Canadian government allowed, would you be banned from returning now?
Info sharing of criminal records amongst boarder officials = Good
Getting denied entry because of a single life mistake you made 30 years ago when you were young, foolish and smoking too much pot = Bad
Mr. Obvious says: There should be some International agreed upon time limits as to how far back "relatively minor" crime convictions can go before you are denied entry. Better yet, have a scale. I.e. If you were a Nazi leader 40 years ago... yes you are still fucked. If you killed someone by accident while drinking & driving... 20 years. If you stole a chocolate bar from the grocery store...2 years. If you were a free-lance Microsoft marketing enthusiast (aka. DoD member)... we should make you wait 5 minutes while we lay out the red carpet for you.
Adeptus
No trees were killed in the making of this post; however, many trillions of electrons were horribly inconvenienced.
As a frequent traveler I applied for a Canadian passport last October and I haven't gotten it yet... WTF
The worlds two biggest partners with the longest unprotected border have politicians that can't get along. We citizens should kick them both, but Ottawa needs a double kick.
Why not let US border patrol have access to Canadian DMV records and the other way around? Why do we need passports at all? So the terrorists can steal and forge them? Canadian DMV records are some of the best in the world.
North American computers have the info, they know all about anyone who has been here for awhile. When I returned to Alberta some years ago after being gone a long time, I was reactivated bridging my history from when I lived here before.
As for those getting turned back for once upon a time breaking the law, then don't break the law.
So for the politicians I say, Get off your bickering sorry asses and get along. Stop posturing for control and use some common sense will ya?
I crossed the border on a geocaching trip to Winnipeg and we were stopped and held for an hour by the Canadian border agents. After we waited for them to stop standing around chatting and deal with us (which was 35 minutes of the hour we were there) they began to interview a group of three men that were waiting before us. The conversation with the border patrol agent went something like this:
Agent: "Sir, according to our records obtained from the Minnesota State Patrol, you were stopped for DUI in April 2006. When you were asked if you had any prior incidents and you said, 'no' you lied. You are not to lie to a Border Patrol Agent at any time."
Crosser: "I haven't been convicted yet."
Agent: "I didn't ask if you were convicted."
---
Agent: "Sir, according to our records you were convicted of lewd conduct and indecent exposure in March of 2006. When I asked you if you had any prior convictions and you said, 'no', you lied. You are not to lie to a Border Patrol Agent at any time."
Crosser: "It was reduced to a lesser charge!"
Agent: "I asked if you had any prior incidents."
---
This went on for the next individual as well (I don't remember what he did wrong). After that they were released and permitted to go on to their next destination which was a wedding in Winnipeg. For us, they called us one by one into a back interview room and asked us a bunch of questions about our educational background and work history. I actually felt uncomfortable with some of the questions but answered them anyway.
They checked our passports and birth certificates and while the previous group had convictions and lied and we didn't, we still had our car searched for another 30 minutes before being allowed to move along.
So, even though Bush shouldn't be allowed into the country, these fools were. Bleh.
Finally, people are starting to give us back as good as we are giving them. It's about time. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Hopefully every country will start applying the full standard and stopping US government officials they don't like from entering as well. Then maybe we'll see some change here, and possibly a little humility.
You foreigners have been way too cowardly, refusing standing up for yourselves against my government. Get some fucking backbone.
Unfortunately, I think we have already passed the tipping point.
From the news I see and hear, and the conversations I have with other people, it looks like the concept of "paying your debt to society" has been relegated to history. Even otherwise intelligent people I talk to seem to have come to the opinion that once you commit a crime, any crime, you should have to be responsible for that act for the rest of your life. We have somehow come to the point that no matter what punishment you endure, you will always be suspected as having a tendency re-commit. Innocent until proven guilty used to mean for each individual crime, but the feeling now is that if you were ever proven guilty of anything, then you can never again be truly innocent of anything.
Even worse, I see more and more the tendency to assume if you were ever even accused of the crime, you will always be under suspicion for the rest of your life. That is regardless of whether you were convicted or not, even if someone else was eventually convicted for the crime.
The only end I can see for this is, when everyone is convicted or under suspicion for something, the attitude will shift and people will feel that if they are going to be continually punished, then they might as well keep doing the crime. That will lead to a positive feedback loop of suspicion -> crime -> conviction -> suspicion -> crime.... until anarchy rebuilds society.
But then again, I'm in a black mood this week. Maybe it not as bad as I think, and the AnnaBritneyIdol stories leading the all the major news networks just have me weeping for humanity right now.
"Unheard of means only it's undreamed of yet,
Impossible means not yet done." ~~ Julia Ecklar
I agree about the tourism thing, but I've had many more rude border security agents from the States than from Canada. When I was living in Canada I got more grief entering the US (I'm a US citizen) than I did entering Canada (on a student visa).
I would invariably get asked why I'm visiting the States and for how long. Why do I have to have a reason to go home? I could understand if they wanted to know what I was doing in Canada, but I can do anything I want for however long I want in the States. I always wanted to say something like "well, things aren't working out in Canada, so I'm returning here to go on welfare". I mean, what could they do, not let me in? It's my country. But I never had the guts. I guess they could've held me at the border for hours.
The USA has a long history of leaning on other nations to get what the USA wants. Other nations would accept the imposition, because it meant more money.
It seems that in these post 9/11 times, money alone is not enough for some nations, and they are leaning back.
Perhaps my government will re-think it's aggresive foreign policies...
Blar.
A friend of mine is a permanent U.S. resident, but is not a U.S. citizen ...
Well, here's some first hand information from someone who is a Canadian who is a U.S. resident.
U.S. Customs officials are federal employees. No suprise there, but I wonder how many U.S. citizens has have had the pleasure of an encounter with one, say a security guard at federal court house? You know, the guy with the $4 buzz cut, gun in his holster, and no personality or sense of humour ready and eager to assert his power. And, quite frankly and typically, zero interest or patience with f'rnrs or their problems.
Crossing into Canada, well, you get a Canadian. The usual stereotype. Relaxed, friendly and good natured, doesn't take himself that seriously and tries to do a good job because he thinks it's the right thing to do. He's a product of a country that has had liberal immigration laws for decades, so he his outlook isn't tied into any sense of nationalism or a fear or dislike of immigrants.
The above two descriptions are valid irrespective of whether you're American or Canadian, or in which direction you're headed. Put another way, going into Canada is typically a breeze and comes with a "Have a nice visit", while crossing into the U.S. is an ugly experience, assuming, of course, you don't get turned away which happens on such a regular basis it's almost to be expected. And if you're a legal U.S. resident thinking you'll have no problems, you shouldn't be too outraged if the official decides to detain you or just decides to confiscate your residency card for an arbitrary reason before sending you back. It happened to me. Twice. I could recite the horror stories of friends, relatives and acquaintances from any number of nationalities (American included), so if I sound overly critical, know that I consider my own experiences fairly minor by comparison.
Canadians may be going through growing pains, and/or be influenced or pressured by their neighbour to the south, so border issues may be of greater concern, but I have few worries in that regard. It's the American side that distinguishes itself with nationalistic values, a concern about immigrants, worries of terrorists and terrorism, and a population where the average citizen is unlikely to have travelled outside of his state, let alone outside his country. Legitimate concerns there, perhaps, but that doesn't make the crossing any less miserable.
Just a couple of weeks ago, I crossed into the US, and got "randomly selected" for a car search. In the holding area, all I see are other "randomly selected" people, all of whom were of visible minority (or majority depending on where you're from). That had me thinking that it wasn't so random as it appeared, until the guy that pulled out of the garage space I was assigned to. He was a single white male in his 50s or 60s. Sort of blows my theory away that day. At least the custom agents made it as quick as possible.
Coming back to Canada, the custom agent looked at me and my passenger and waved us through without checking our passports.
Two extremes, we need to meet in the middle ground somewhere.
Live forever, or die trying.