Slashdot Mirror
Is Switching Jobs Too Often a Bad Thing?
Career Hot Potato asks: "I've been out of school for little more than a year and I have only good things to say about the job market. So far, there doesn't seem to be any lack of demand for a good .NET developer. I've got to admit, though, I feel a little disloyal at this point. Several great job offers have come my way and I've taken them. My resume is starting to make me look a bit restless and it worries me. Until now I've just chalked it up to 'I'm just settling in,' but now another opportunity has been dropped into my lap. Would I be digging my own grave by taking this job? It'd be my fourth job in 16 months but each offered a promotion and a 30% to 40% raise. I know better than to put a price on job satisfaction but I'm pretty certain I'd be happy there. Is being branded as a 'hot potato' enough to keep you from switching? What's your price on this stigma?"
So far, there doesn't seem to be any lack of demand for a good .NET developer.
.NET developers?
Excellent! What's the market like for evil
There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
Yes! Switching jobs often makes you look like a "job hopper". You can do it once but your resume should have a job that spans several years right after it. That way you can lie about the short job and get away with it.
Antti S. Brax - Old school - http://www.iki.fi/asb/
The way I see it, if you end up getting a job you are pretty much set. The only thing it could hurt is your ability to GET a job, not KEEP it. As long as you are happy with the latest offer and stick with it you should be able to put in enough time to get passed the whole 'hot potato' phase before you need to look for another. Go with what will make you happy while making the most money =P
Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices. --- Voltaire
I've got a book here by Gordon Miller, called Quit Your Job Often and Get Big Raises.
Switching jobs regularly can be fantastic for your career - but you have to do it intelligently: leave AFTER you finish a big project.
(disclaimer: I'm a contractor - it's a whole other way of making a living.)
"Be afraid to die until you have won some victory for humanity" -Horace Mann
Yes, doing anything too often is a bad thing.
Hope that helps.
As with anything else, there's no hard and fast rules, but it can be a bad thing because it makes you look like a disloyal salary chaser. One of the (many) problems in the .com era was that people would jump form ship to ship chasing higher salaries. You'd get trained people leaving a job they'd been at for a number of years and then hop across 5 different startups. Well, when the market came down is it and wonder that companies were less inclined to hire them? I mean who's to say they wouldn't jump ship as soon as a bigger number came along?
However please don't take this to mean you should try and stick with a company no matter what. You do not owe your company anything other than good work and you shouldn't stick around in a situation that sucks. However do take in to consideration that what goes around comes around in terms of loyalty.
My personal rule would be don't switch jobs without a good reason. There are lots of things that could be a good reason, but just a salary increase really isn't. There's much more to happiness than money and if you get in a game of chasing dollars it is easy to make yourself unhappy. Figure out what you want out of work and try to find a place that offers that. Then stay there unless there's a reason to move. Also consider other things like work environment, benefits (such a vacation, health coverage), and so on.
So don't turn this down just because you feel you are switching too often, but don't take it just because it is more dollars, unless you are in a situation where you need the money (in which case ask yourself why, and make sure you don't get there again). Take it if it will be better for your long term happiness. Money is certainly a part of that, but consider all the factors.
Do this not only because you want to be happy, but because it is easier to explain to a future employer if they ask about it. If they say "You have a lot of jobs here in the past few years, why is that?" You come off much better explaining how the changes were for personal reasons such as liking the new challenge, growth, better environment, etc than if you just say you were after bigger bucks.
Also part of it depends on how you want to present yourself in the job market. A legit way to go is a consultant kind of worker. Maybe not an actual consultant, but willing to take on short-term work. Company needs a developer for a single project that's maybe 6-12 months, you say sure and ride that while it's there then move on. In that case switching jobs is not just expected but probably even an asset as they won't worry you'll be pissed when they lay you off. However if you are more after the stable environment, where you work for a place for 5, 10, or more years and train to do new things as necessary, then look at doing less job hopping as places like that want people who will stick around.
Ultimately you are the only one with the answers. Just consider the reasons and make sure they are good ones. Make sure you consider everything you are giving up and that it still is worth it.
If you worry about how your resume will look like after you get a new job, something's wrong about your approach. You're taking a job because of the job and prospects connected with it. You should plan on staying at that job for MANY years. Otherwise, just don't take it. You'll either build several years of constant job there, a good solid entry in your resume, with summarizing your previous employment as a single "2006-2007 various short-term jobs", or you're doing this only to jump to yet another job in a few months, and that means you are a hot-potato and you'll get what you deserve. Anyway, as long as BETTER offers keep coming, you can keep accepting them, but note BETTER doesn't only mean higher salary or promotion. About the most important condition for a long-term job is good atmosphere and that's not what you can negotiate from the employee. So one day you may notice "sure, I'm paid a lot and I'm a boss of a big team but everyone hates me and is out to get me" and you'll remember a good, friendly place you had left before. And then your resume may count.
45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
So you find a job, but keep looking for new jobs? Why?
About your question, it's not necessarily a bad thing. I've been offered a lot of "6 month contract" positions. If you've been doing stuff like that, it would make sense that you've switched jobs every few months when the contract ends.
But if that's not the case, or if it is and you keep leaving early, then it probably looks bad. Hiring people is an expensive pain in the ass, and if an employer thinks it's very likely they'll have to replace you, they're less likely to hire you.
If it hasn't been a problem so far, your best bet is probably to keep finding jobs with huge pay increases until people stop making you offers. Just make sure you like the job you end up with and hope that it lasts for a long time.
Maybe not
I'd think maintaining company loyalty is more important than money. At least that way you gain some security. Think about it as if you were an employer. Would you be willing to hire someone who hasn't stayed with a company for a reasonable amount of time?
I don't have much, if any, experience, so don't take my comments too seriously. Consider this though. If I take a job (not a tech job), I'm going to honor my commitment to it even if more money is offered elswhere.
As far as I can tell, the closer to the CEO end of the hierarchy you are, the less of a stigma is attached to it. If you've taken six different busboy jobs in a year, you're fucked. Six senior management positions in a year, you're just ambitious.
I've been out of my parent's basement for little more than a year and I have only good things to say about the dating market. So far, there doesn't seem to be any lack of demand for a good geek. I've got to admit, though, I feel a little disloyal at this point. Several girls have come my way and I've taken them. My list of ex-girlfriends is starting to make me look a bit restless and it worries me. Until now I've just chalked it up to 'It's just hormones,' but now another chick has been dropped into my lap. Would I be digging my own grave by taking this girl? It'd be only my fourth time speaking to a woman in 19 years but each offered benefits and a 30% to 40% increase in cup size. I know better than to put a price on satisfaction but I'm pretty certain I'd be happy with her even though all I ever do with girls is hold hands. Is being branded as a 'hot potato' enough to keep you from switching? What's your price on this stigma?
Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
A couple years ago this was considered being a "salary whore". It is a huge problem in your future endeavours. I have been involved in looking at resumes along with my technical manager and the first thing we look at is does he have a valid skillset that is needed for what we are looking to hire for at the time. The second thing we look at is how many jobs has he head in the past 5 years. This will tell us if he will stay on after the initial training phase of the job. If the guy has let's say 3 jobs in the past 5 years then either he's going to bail on us after a year or he got fired for being a bad apple. Either way we don't want him since we need not just loyalty but dependability. Well I guess those two go hand in hand.
If you're getting offers of 30-40% higher and taking them, as an employer I don't think I'd blame you for hopping.
The problem is going to be this: You're costing your employers money every time you do this. Lots and lots of money. It costs money to go through the hiring process, the process of orienting you (during which time you are less productive and still getting paid), the process of processing you (HR setting up payroll, insurance, etc), and worst of all -- the opportunity cost of hiring someone who leaves in a couple of months (ie, loss of productivity due to your orientation time + hiring time of the next guy + orientation time of the next guy).
Unless you are extraordinarily compelling, I'd be inclined to pass on you as an employer unless I was sure there was something I could do to keep you should you get a better offer -- and I'd have to be willing to do it, too.
Mostly, when you make a habit of hopping, what you need to consider before you hop is:
1. If the new job turns sour, am I willing to put up with any shit they give me, no matter how bad it is.
2. Is the company going to be in a position to release me in the near future (ie, due to layoffs or because I'm a fuck up)
The reason you need to consider these is because with each hop you make in a short amount of time, the danger of the aforementioned hiring manager passing on you due to your hopping increases. You do NOT want to be without a job when you cross the line and become a radioactive hire due to job hopping.
#1 - If you're finding jobs offering that much more money every 4 months or so, it means you sold yourself too cheap at first. Take a moment and figure out what you're really worth. Then, when you get an offer, ignore the number if it's low, and counteroffer for what you're really worth.
#2 - Job hopping will change the kind of job offers you'll get. If you've been changing jobs every 4 months, you're going to get hired by people who have a short-term interest in you. If you show that you're committed to a job for 4 years at a time, you'll get hired by places that are looking to keep you around a long time.
#3 - If you LIKE changing jobs frequently, become a contractor! People will hire you expecting you to be there 6 months, and you'll get to try out a whole range of places. This will probably be a good thing for you until you figure out what you really want. Plus, if you decide to settle down, all you have to say is all the short jobs you did were contracts, and no one will count it against you.
#4 - Being a job hopper isn't inherently bad as long as you're representing your intentions truthfully, but don't be surprised if you end up having to seriously pay your dues to change your image if you decide you want to work somewhere more committed to YOU in the future.
Switching jobs often is only a bad thing if your resume shows that you do it consistently. Personally I don't mind if a prospective worker has a lot of jobs on his or her resume, but I *do* mind if they don't have one or two that they stayed at for several years - it tells me one of two things:
1. You're incompetent and moved from job to job because you had to, either because you got fired or because you left right before someone let you go.
2. You're only in it for the money and could care less about what we're doing.
#1 concerns me for obvious reasons, #2 concerns me because a. even the best engineer is a drain on the project for the first six months due to training overhead (you may be brilliant, but you DON'T know what we're doing or how we do things), b. when you leave *I* have to take up your slack until the new guy comes up to speed, and c. the rest of us DO care about what we're doing.
So my advice is this: find a nice balance between your paycheck and working on something you actually LIKE DOING, and then stay there for awhile even if someone else will pay you more. I just turned away a guy who is a brilliant programmer but who hasn't held a job for more than a year since 1995 - instead, I hired someone who was less technically qualified but had the good sense to ask about the longevity of the position because he hated switching jobs... and he had a history of sticking around. I treat my people well, I expect them to do the same for me.
Financially speaking, you also need to consider two things:
1. Switching jobs rapidly significantly lowers your credit score as well as making lenders think you're a flake, which will push the APR on any money you borrow through the roof. You may not think this matters, but if you buy a house or a car the penalty can amount to many thousands of dollars a year. If you don't use credit, that's not a problem... but if (like me) you can borrow money under the rate of inflation it's a huge benefit.
2. Many employee benefits (401K matching, long-term incentives, etc.) don't vest unless you're with a company for 3-5 years, so switching jobs often can incur a hidden cost of tens of thousands of dollars per year. You probably won't see this immediately on your paycheck but you'll feel it at retirement time.
HTH.
Beauty is just a light switch away.
Something you don't learn in school is that every single company has a single laser-pointed focus: to get the most out of you for the lowest possible salary. This is how it works in good companies and in bad companies.
Something you don't learn in school is that every single employee needs a single laser-pointed focus: to get the most out of the company for the lowest investment of your time. This is how it works in good employees and in bad employees.
Eventually your salary will approach "fair market value" and you won't see massive salary increases, that is called the ceiling. When you hit the ceiling you will focus more on "quality of life" concerns.
Good luck!
This is my second job and it's the second time that i work for free as sysadmin
I've got to admit, though, I feel a little disloyal at this point.
Why? Do you think they're loyal to you? If you think that, you've got another thought comin'.
Wansu, th' chinese sailor
A year out of school and I'd say you can get away with it, but don't keep it up. If you think this next job is someplace you'll be happy, take it. But first take stock of your current job - are you happy there? Could you be? I've hopped jobs for salary increases several times, but I'd gladly drop my salary to work someplace stable where I could also be happy. Lucky for me, I AM happy, and I'm pretty well paid :) But more important than salary is connections, so make sure you make a few good ones wherever you land.
Dear CHP: You don't really have enough all 'round experience in the 'real world' to ask or even understand such a question. You seem to have no concept of loyalty to an employer, etc. If this was related to being placed by an agency...one agency that you've been with since you left school...I might buy it. Otherwise, you're much too green to be trusted to stick around long enough for you or the employer to really know if you should go or stay.
:)
If I were a recruiter and knew about such moves, I'd be suspicious, regardless of your explanation(s). It sounds more like you've been dismissed after every 90 day probation for the last four hirings.
Also, don't ignore how this will look on credit reports as well - to banks and potential employers. Employers frequently check those these days, so try as you might to gloss over within a resume and you're more likely to just be putting your neck in a noose. Pick a job and stay with it for at least a year. Get more experience out in the world and use that to help pick the job you think you want...later. Otherwise, work for an agency and do your hopping while still showing one employer.
You can always do what most people in the same position do... start your own business and you can change once a week if you like
If you take a permanent job you should stick with it for at least 9 months to a year, you've hardly got outside your probation periods before you've left. You talk about the market like a contractor, if your after increasing your skillset quickly and broadly as well as discovering what you like/don't/good-at/bad-at it's a great way to do it. It'd be harder to take a permanent job later as its slightly looked down upon, but no-where near as much as what your doing.
Jobs or jobs?
6 339852263 , switching Jobs was a bad idea. :/
At least according to http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=483033660
If you like the changes, AND the higher salary, consdier being a hired gun. You can earn a great deal more. From the companies POV, you are a hired gun. If they really like you, they may offer you a position at a nice rate esp. if they think that the economy is going gang busters.
.net is the future AND there will continue to not be enough coders in the field, you will be fine.
But some words of caution; First, the contact shop is a pimp and considers you less than whore. They will try to take as much as possible from you. From watching the newbies, I have noticed that over the last 5 years, they have changed from wanting a high rate to now taking a much higher rate AND raping you in the process. Be careful of them. Avoid companies like EDS/Perot, GCI, Sai People, etc. Secondly, know when to jump off the ship. This economy is headed again for another tanking (it never really recovered from 9-11). So what you do, is try to figure out when the economy is heading down and then be sure to take a real job prior to that. Then you are somewhat locked in with a better than average rate. Of course, keep in mind that if the economy really heads south, you will probably be the first to go. But if you believe that
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
I wouldn't worry about what the employer thinks of your track record in the first few years. Any employer worth their salt will see through it if you're genuinely passionate about the role. Just be clear to get that across in the CV ad the interview. If they can't then you don't want to be working there.
Is changing relationships too often a bad thing?
Change too often, and your possible significant other may see you as:
1. Superficial or fickle.
2. Incapable of forming a relationship.
3. Irresponsible, immature, or otherwise unable to deal with obligations.
4. Not someone with whom any sort of investment should be made.
Don't change often enough, and you may be considered:
1. Complacent, unmotivated and aspiring to nothing.
2. Generally undesirable, or without talent.
3. Ill-equipped to form any new relationship.
4. Odd.
Like most things in life, our opinions are arrived at in some context. An employer who is seeking a superstar employee will view a stable work record differently than someone looking for to fill an empty slot.
My advice? Try to be mature in your decisions and decide what's right for you. Commitments you do make, however, should be respected. Personally, I've never objected to seeing 3-5 year minimums, given that there's few companies like IBM, GE, etc. around these days, and even fewer Jack Welsh types that you'll be working for. People get divorced at an increasing rate, so it's more acceptable than in the past that an invidividual won't spend his or her career with a single company.
If you're being offered jobs then your new employer is fine with the amount of job-hopping you're doing. If you're not, then you're stuck in your current one until your CV looks better. In either case, you don't need to worry about anything - except for taking a job that you hate, in case you get stuck there.
My Journal
Given a choice between two developers with similar skills and experiences, but one has had 2 different jobs in the last decade, and the other has had 17, none lasting longer than 18 months, there's no question at all which one will be most desirable.
Thing is, people don't have any choice other than take past behaviour as indicative of future. So, I'd only hire the job-hopper if I desperately needed him to get us over some crunch -- but I'd be assuming from the get go that he'd be gone within the year anyway, that's what past experience says anyway.
When demand is high enough you take anyone you get with the rigth skills. When demand is less spectacular so you (as an employer) get the luxury of choice, you'll be their last choice.
Notice that *some* job-changes are probably good for you. Given 2 programmers, both with 20 years experience, it's quite likely the one with 3 different jobs has more varied experience and is *more* desirable than the one who got a single job after graduating and has kept it ever since.
It's just that, changing jobs every 4 months mean you're normally gone before you're even fully trained, a resource-sink. And you're certainly gone before you even get the chance to see a large project trough to completion.
I'm now a senior engineer (not bad at 26) and I've sat on the other side in a few interviews to try to get the technical side of the person for the manager (its good when managers know their limitations) I've been told the same things by a couple of different managers so I thought I'd share them here:
They like to see that people have done different roles - different roles means picking up different skills.
3-4 years in each position seems to be the magic number. 2 is quite aceptable but lots of positions with only 1 year at a time raises warning bells. Equally 5 years or more can set off alarms for other reasons - is the person pushing themself, are they keeping their skills up to date etc.
Contractors its a little different since some contracts are 6 months for a job that will last that long so renewal wouldn't even be offered - but there is always the question of why this person wasn't (or chose not to be) renewed.
One or two short stints isn't a problem - its the overall pattern they want to see (and frequently try to read more into it than their actually is)
As far as jumping for pay rises goes I seriously doubt you could pick up the skills or experiance to get a significant rise (20% or more vs your last job) without staying in a place for atleast 2 years - so if you are getting offered that kind of increase its quite likely (as somone else above noted) that you underpriced yourself in the first role.
As for me? I did a grad role for 2 1/2 years, a 50% rise into a senior engineering role for another 2 1/2 years then slightly more than double into a senior contracting role - I'll probably be here for 1-2 years - atleast thats the plan right now - I'll always hear an offer out - but I'll rarely go for them unles they sound very good
$_="Slashdotter";$syn="OTT";s;..;;;sub _{print shift||$_};s!ash!Perl !;s=$syn=ack=i;tr+LLEd+BLAH+;_"Just Another ";_
I've been in the job-hopping situation plenty of times, and this is something that I've given a lot of thought to, over the years.
If you're getting a 30-40% raise each time you switch, then you're probably at a point in your career (the beginning) where you've been undervalued and potential employers are beginning to see your true potential. Unfortunately, staying steady at one job isn't going to get you the income you deserve. Job hopping will, and quite quickly. The problem, as you and others have stated, is that potential employers will begin to second guess investing in you as a new employee if they think you may jump ship in a few months.
The solution is quite simple, really. Join the wonderful world of contracting. As a contractor (either independent or through a proxy), expectations are quite different. You'll usually work on one project for a certain amount of time -- one month, one year, until the project is complete, or until the company runs out of money or cans the project. It would be bad to jump ship in the middle of a contract, but at the end of the contract you're happy, your client is happy, and you can begin looking for the next 30-40% raise. Contracting is the best way for someone in your position to ramp up the pay quickly without feeling disloyal. If/when your pay increases begin to flatten out, you can then look for permanent work (if that's what you want) and potential employers will understand that your resume reflects short-term contracts.
It worked well for me, and I think it's a better approach than staying in one place at less pay than you're worth.
How often you spend working for a company before switching jobs might ultimately depend on what you want to do with your career. If you find yourself moving around a lot (by choice or by necessity), it might be better for you to become a contractor. It allows you the freedom to pick and choose jobs (if you're any good), and you get paid a very decent rate (if you're any good). People tend to understand* that contractors have a pick-and-mix resume. However, if you one day want to be a CTO or CIO, you mostly likely need to build up a history of leadership and vision and, importantly, commitment (the best ones, in my experience, have these qualities) - which could be seen by some to be inconsistent with chopping and changing jobs too often.
I think Apple has the right idea. Switching Steve Jobs out every 12 years or so is a good thing. The first time they switched Jobs, he came back and revitalized Apple. The next time Jobs is switched out, I'm sure he will have even more innovative ideas for Apple. So, no, switching Jobs too often is clearly not a bad thing.
-William Brendel
In Europe, especially in cultures where traditionally someone is expected to stay with one employer for most of their lives (Germany and France are the worst), more than a few jobs on a CV can exclude a worker from many jobs. In a few other places where worker protection is now lacking, employers understand that workers may have quite a few entries on their CV (England is almost America at this point). Since /. is mostly American oriented, I would say that a few job hops in a few years is not a big deal, but 4 changes in 16 months would be a red flag for most recruiters, even in the U.S.
.NET becomes as fashionable as COBOL (very serious possibility in 10 years), you'll need to show something other than 40 jobs in 10 years. Concentrate on getting into a stable long term job soon, it's more than just income, it's an investment in your long term employability.
For more experienced workers, i.e. those with more than a decade of experience, a few different employers can be a good thing. But for workers just starting out, it is rather imperative to have at least one long stretch of employment, to show that you can keep a job, be a team player, and all the other buzzwords that recruiters tend to bandy around.
Is being branded as a 'hot potato' enough to keep you from switching?
It depends on your job history. I started my career with nearly a decade at one company, and many recruiters have told me that one sign of stability is still more important than all my recent successful projects. I've been contracting most of the last 10 years, and have 20 successful projects listed on my CV for that period. But recruiters look for stability more than skills and experience for 95% of the people they have to hire. Rarely, and I do mean rarely, a recruiter (HR drone or other) has to find someone with a specific skill for a short term contract and then they'll be looking at recent projects only. So now with 30+ years of work experience, I don't worry too much about getting branded 'unreliable', but if I'm talking with a recruiter from France or Germany, I'm always defending my long and varied track record. Most German recruiters will just toss a CV with more than 2 jobs on it, it's a constant battle for hiring managers because they know that their HR people are stuck in the 1800's mentality of hiring practices and good people are always ignored.
If your resume/CV has too many jobs on it at the beginning of your career, with no long successful project to show you are also stable and good enough for employers to keep you for a few years, you will do serious harm to your career later in life. If someday
the AC
Hemos is like...sci-fi fans;he thinks technology is cool, but he hasn't bothered to understand the science it's based on
There's a couple things here that stand out to me. One, the subject of money. A fresh out of school .NET developer here in central Ohio can pull down $45k/year easily. So if you've jumped jobs twice already, each time for a 30-40% pay raise (I'll call it 33 because the math is easier) you would have gone from $45k/year to $60k/year to $80k/year in less than 18 months. And now you're contemplating a position that bumps you to over $105k/year? Two years out of school? Something seems way out of whack with that.
.NET dev). So I'm guessing that your biggest problem is that you way undersold yourself at the beginning and have been playing catch up. It happens sometimes.
Now assuming that your starting salary was a lot lower (say $35k/year), then those bumps are taking you to $46k, $62k, and potentially $82k respectively (which would be a lot more in line with what is normal around here for an experienced
If that's the case, then you're probably pretty close to what the market rate is by now and the job hopping (or at least the financial incentives for it) should be winding down now. Hopefully this next position is one you can stay at for at least several years. If all of that is true, then I would recommend going for it. It's not uncommon for people right out of school to do a little searching before they settle down into something that they really like, and most potential employers will understand that.
But be advised, you have already started a pattern that will throw up serious red flags with hiring managers. While it's not uncommon to change jobs every few years these days (especially in IT, where it's almost the norm), four jobs in less than two years could be a warning sign. It can be interpreted as either you are restless and unhappy, or you aren't very competent, or simply that you're ambitious. But with an average stint of less than six months, it also indicates that you probably haven't taken many (if any) projects through to completion. And employees like that tend to cost companies lots of money. Anyone who hires you will likely be watching you for signs of unrest, so you may have to work harder to prove that you're going to stick around this time.
And you are going to stick around this time, right? I mean, I personally wouldn't make that next jump unless I was pretty confident that it was a job that I would enjoy doing for several years, because subsequent jumps are probably going to get considerably more difficult for you to make. You could potentially find yourself in a job that pays better but that you actually don't like at all, and your only out may end up being a lower paying or even less satisfying job because you've hurt your marketability.
Otherwise, why work at all? You would be making better money starting an online company selling garden dirt or something.
Of *course* changing too often is a bad thing. That's what "too" means.
I've been living at my parents house for 3 years without a job, mainly due to burn-out and minor issues in completing my degree. Basically I was missing one elective, a non-major class, for 2 years.
I'm a good programmer, with mainly C and Java experience. I've got lots of PC hardware/networking/IT experience going back to DOS 3.1, can find my way around most any OS, and can do network management, unlike most other CS graduates. I feel like the breadth of my experience could be valuable.
I also started a software dev company in college and scored a contract with a large publisher which didn't net me much money, but forced me to step up and code a big project in C, from design, to implementation, to playing a support role. I worked on the website too, doing PHP, database work, and shopping cart integration with our credit card processor. I did have help, but was the go-to guy for technical understanding in our tiny operation.
Since then I haven't done much, and it is approaching a year since I finally finished my Comp. Sci. degree. How do I explain the 3 year gap where I did basically nothing? My record at past jobs has been very good, and my fellow employees/bosses found me valuable, but those references are now getting pretty outdated, being almost 5 years ago.
I'm not sure where to go from here, despite my past success, the 3 year work gap immediately following screams "unreliable". I've thought about doing independent consulting for small businesses to get back into the groove of things, but doing your own thing is a lot of responsibility, and it takes time to develop a viable income stream this way. Conventional employment would provide a softer start and immediate income that would allow me to be independent of my parents, which I sorely need.
My parents would like to see me get a high paying job, but coming from a different culture, never really fancied the idea of me being truly independent. It is very easy to get stuck in a rut living at home, and on top of that I've always had some difficulty staying organized and managing my time. I've been trying to complete a ruby on rails web project for a non-profit that is months overdue, and it is difficult to work from here. A conventional job would provide the structure and change of environment that I need.
Anyway, I digress. Going back to the original topic, I'm a bit stuck here, how should I approach the 3 year gap in my record when queried by a potential employer?
...have you accomplished anything for these employers that is not trivial? I seriously doubt it. No way have you seen a product through conception, implementation, testing, release, and maintenance. So... what exactly is it that makes you so attractive to employers? You may well be a genious - but what good it it if the employer cannot reap the benefits of your genious?
Having experience means actually *experiencing* something, not having a passing familiarity with it.
I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
Take the job! Seriously if you get an increase of more than 10% you should take the job. By time the offers stop comming, you'll be in a high paying job and it won't matter if you're not getting offers any more. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise, the only reason to have a job is to get money. All other considerations are secondary. Take the money and run!
If you had valid reasons for leaving each position, then a wise potential employer wouldn't be so alarmed assuming you communicated that in your resume. The way that I have handled this in my own resume, with good results, is to list a salary and reason for leaving on each of my past positions. You might list one or the other, or both. For instance, if you don't want to give specific salary information you could probably get the same point across by saying that your reason for leaving position x was because of a 30% salary increase offered elsewhere.
That means you are getting around 3x the amount your first job paid you. So unless you have been selling yourself very very cheaply (i.e. 1/2 to 1/3 market rate), you should have reached the higher end of the market pay for people with less than 2 years of experience, so you shouldn't be seeing anymore such offers for a couple years to come.
So I would say go ahead. As long as the raise is large enough, it is easy to justify this to any future employer.
Oliver.
With large increases without changing industries or job roles (i.e. .NET developer) across several jobs in a short time I'd suspect OP is not negotiating hard enough.
If other companies can afford to swoop in with a raise like that, you didn't get what you should have out of the company that currently employs you when you took that job in the first place.
If you want to switch, go ahead, but spend a lot of time getting the most you can out of them and then get some negotiating skills under your belt (there's books for that, don't read them at work).
Better yet, just negotiate a higher pay rate within the job you have... you have good evidence the going rate is higher.
You've had 3 jobs in 16 months and you're considering a 4th? That's about 5 months in each job. It takes about 3 months before you're producing more work than the rest of the staff time you consume learning. It takes about 6 before you're producing at the level I hired you for.
No interview for you. I wouldn't touch you with a 10 foot pole even if you had exactly the skills I need. If you're not going to stay at least a couple years, you're not worth the effort.
Moderating "-1, Disagree" is simple censorship. Have the guts to post your opinion.
Back in the dot.com boom I did some IT hiring for a large telecom. One of the things that we looked for was job stability. I personally like to see someone stick around at least a couple of years. It takes several months to get up to speed in a new company, especially in regards to the non-technical aspects, such as the company's ecosystem. After that investment, a company needs to see at least a year or two of solid productivity to get back that initial investment
By the same token, I would typically be leary of someone who worked at the same job for too long. Note that I said the same job, not the same company. Someone who works themselves up through the company ranks or moves around within a company will have a much broader base of experience than someone who has spent the last two decades doing the same job, especially at the same company. To me, the ideal IT resume shows someone who has held several jobs, for at least a couple of years each, but not more than four or five years per job. Working at more than one company or in more than one industry is also a plus. There also should be no unexplained employment gaps.
No kidding. They were getting a 25-30% discount the whole time he was there. I guess they thought that making a lowball offer was a good idea at the time since it looked like a big enough raise to the hire to lure him from his last job.
I am not a crackpot.
Before you switch, ask yourself about the current environment. Is the office an agreeable environment? Do you find the work challenging? Are you motivated? Are there experienced wise older folk to learn from? Does the company treat people well and have sound finances?
These are questions that should stimulate you to think about whether you are happy working there. The grass isn't always greener. The money might be better but this is only one consideration. Working with quality people, learning new skills and technologies, knowing a project has a good chance of success, knowing the company will be around in 6 months are other factors.
Not every project will be a success. Have backup plans for when your team do all get shafted. Perhaps you could say to the boss at the other company "I'm content in my current job but if the situation changes..."
As you're just starting out and earning good money (relative to the rest of the population, perhaps not in your industry just yet) don't be afraid to spend it. Serious stuff like a spouse, mortgage and kids can wait. Travel, see the world. Many contractors enjoy the freedom of working for 6-12 months and then taking a break. 4 weeks annual leave in a permanent job? Once you get over to the other side of the world, 4 weeks is gone in an instant.
Some perspective on what motivates you is more important than worrying about whether you should have taken a 'dream job' or not. My advice, unless you are really offered a huge wad of extra cash, stay in a job while you enjoy it. Patience...
It's all how you cast the situation. If you tell your next prospective employer that you have been consulting, then the short spells at jobs is instantly explained. If they ask questions that make you think they're looking for someone more long-term, then you can either decide to move on or say something like, "Consulting has been fun and I've learned a great deal about many businesses, but I'm looking to change my lifestyle and settle down." But only say the latter if you really mean it, since lying will kill your consulting possibilities long-term as word gets around.
The thing about I.T. is, with a few exceptions it's all project-based. All projects end and most of them finish inside 12 months. Plus, the industry itself is quite turbulent. So whereas a 5-month stint in, say, insurance or finance makes you look fickle or suspect, it's perfectly reasonable and expected in I.T.
But at the end of the day, the real answer as to whether the job-hunting is truly fickle or intentional comes down to how you want to live. If you want something stable, then you are being fickle by hopping jobs. If you'd rather 'do it for the adventure' by consulting, then you're being deliberate and reasonable. Yet, as a previous poster said, make sure that whatever you do you're not leaving anyone in the lurch. If you do short stints, leave after completing the project or a significant milestone, not in the middle.
Do what you can, with what you have, where you are.
Unless the jobs were all contract jobs for particular projects, I would never offer a permanent position to someone with a resume like yours. And even if they were all contract work, I'd hesitate to offer a position without at least one job that you've remained in for two or more years. Although, if you've got a good reason for wanting to settle down, I might give you the chance to explain but odds are that you won't even get the first interview.
The bottom line is that hiring people is expensive. At the firm I'm with, just the interview process alone takes a good chunk out of the day for all of the stakeholders for every applicant that is under consideration. Then there are advertising expenses, administrative paperwork expenses, and so on and so forth. If your resume shows that you've been job hopping every four to six months, it tells me that I'm going have to start the hiring process all over again in four to six months. In a labor market for my industry in my locale it's highly unlikely that your skills are so wonderful that I can't find someone else for less than your asking price + the expense of seeking a new person for when you leave in four to six months.
But on the other hand, if your credentials look good and your references check out, I'd be perfectly willing to hire you on contract for specific projects where we need extra help. And if your work is good and you do a few projects for us on contract, I might be willing to eventually offer you a permanent position down the road.
So it isn't like you're making yourself unhirable, you're just defining yourself as a project worker rather than a traditional employee.
One of the first things I look at when I review a resume is "How long has this individual worked at their previous jobs ? "
If I see multiple jobs of a Year or less, I just throw the resume right then and there. Why should I as an employer Hire someone I don't believe will stick around ? That just means by this time next year (or sooner) I'll be going through all the hassle of searching for another candidate, running background checks, checking references, interviewing.. No Thanks.
far...out
Employment is to survive in life.
Entrepreneurship is to succeed in life.
Slashdot = Sarcasm
What happens when you run into people you stiffed earlier by quitting so early? You can switch jobs all you want, but you won't be making friends doing it. Just keep in mind that you might someday need friends in your industry and location. Good luck with that if you've only stayed at your previous jobs for four months.
Is it all that uncommon to get hired at a really great salary and then have the firm that hired you go tits up? Or maybe not even having the firm going TA, maybe they just decide to have an across the board 25% cut in the number of laborers to increase profitability.
Making good decisions is all about looking at all aspects of the situation and not just the immediate circumstances. Machiavelli thought that the person who did this could probably beat fortune about half of the time.
30-40% is a lot of money and to be honest, who works for their health? If the job you are considering taking is stable, not contract work, and the work environment is the same or better, I would sure as hell take the position.
Yes, employers don't like it when potential employees move around alot, but I'd much rather hear "I was needed more and offered a larger salary at company X", than I was fired or laid off.
Being desirable is a good thing.
Are you looking for a long term job? Jumping from job to job will hurt your chances of getting one of those. But this is a new economy. Employees move around a lot. More and more people do contract work. This is becoming more normal. I think the important thing is to find jobs where you have projects and find a way to have done something with that project. Thus it looks like you are moving on once you've accomplished something. I think you have your answer. You are being offered a better job. So has it hurt you so far? That's like running a bookstore, raking in lots of money and then asking, "But don't bookstore's not make a lot of money, am I doing something wrong?" No you are doing something right, you are making more money and enjoying it. I think the people hanging around making about the same year after year and hating their job are doing something wrong. Heck even if you are jumping around because you want to you'll still have companies trying to give your permanent jobs. This is what I found. Companies no longer hire company men, they hire the person who can do the job the best. And having experiences doing many different things will make you that person.
Then it must not be a factor in your case.
Enjoy the ride and make sure you're switching to a company you can stand to be with for a while. The offers may stop and then you'll be stuck for a while. Sure you're burning some small bridges but it's better to make the move early than to have a company grow to depend on you and then just cut out on them.
A fool throws a stone into a well and a thousand sages can not remove it.
"Managers hate headhunters, for reasons the parent stated, but there's not much in the way of alternatives. The traditional way of seeking all qualified candidates through HR requires sifting through thousands of applications for a single position, and interviewing dozens. On the one hand, you can reduce the candidate pool by poorly advertising, but you're also risking missing out on high quality people who aren't looking for employment."
Or just do what Google does, and give them a Mensa style test to weed them out.
I have a saying I tell some of my users who are endowed with a sense of humor:
Maybe the reason you are having such a problem with technology is becasue you're stupid.
Obviously very few (one) users have ever heard this. Apply that idea to your job and think about why you keep switching companies.
Maybe the reason you can't find the job you want to keep forever is because you shouldn't be working in this field.
Just a thought.
Here will be an old abusing of God's patience and the king's English.
"1. You're incompetent and moved from job to job because you had to, either because you got fired or because you left right before someone let you go."
I tell them if I was fired. It's the honest thing to do. Besides being fired isn't the big stigma it once was.
"2. You're only in it for the money and could care less about what we're doing."
Good thing he's not becoming a CEO.
"2. Many employee benefits (401K matching, long-term incentives, etc.) don't vest unless you're with a company for 3-5 years, so switching jobs often can incur a hidden cost of tens of thousands of dollars per year."
It's not hidden (assumming you all read the paperwork), and you can carry it between jobs.
Since we're giving tips here's mine. Make a note of your accomplishments in the back of your day-planner while they're still fresh in your mind. Because you'll not remember them as well when filling out your resume.
Woah, hold the phone there! To quote Bobby Bouchet's dad in The Waterboy: "Take the money dopey!"
... that there's no resume when you meet a woman.
"Yeah, before we get started, I'd like to see your relationship history and references please."
I wonder if that's how hiring managers end up with wives.
"My resume is starting to make me look a bit restless and it worries me."
We had to get through about 100 resumes for two positions that are currently open, and job-hoppers did not make the short list.
The positions are important ones in our company and the learning curve is too high to keep retraining, so we just don't hire people with resumes such as yours.
I am in a strikingly similar situation. Been out of school for 3 years, but have only been programming for about a year.
The problem is that, where I live, a developer with no experience is worth about $30k/year, however, once you get just a little bit of experience you can ask for a lot more money. Furthermore, if you are a good programmer, your salary will skyrocket up. For me, I started about a year ago getting paid next-to-nothing and being the best programmer in the department. I switched jobs after 6 months to a job that paid me %150 what I was making at that first job. Now, after 6 months (and a raise) at this job, I have started wondering whether or not I could be making even more...
burrocrisy
and that would be what? Ruling by jackasses? Never has a slashdot misspelling been more apropos
Don't tell me to get a life. I'm a gamer; I have LOTS of lives!
I've been building software at startups for 20 years, averaging 5 years/company.
It takes a long time to get a large, interesting piece of software right, and you
have to stick with it through a few releases. When I interview people, I definitely
look for someone who understands all this, and has proven that he can write code,
debug it, support it once it's in customers' hands, improve it, and keep it maintainable
across all this. I'll almost always discard a resume from someone who doesn't have
any job lasting more than a year.
If you want to spend your career writing a long list of uninteresting, trivial apps,
yes, you'll do well during the good times. But I personally wouldn't find such a career
very satisfying, and I believe that when hiring dries up, you'll be at a disadvantage.
There will be thousands of candidates with essentially the same resume.
If you want to do interesting, satisfying work, I think you have find a project that
floats your boat and then stick with it for a few years. And your resume will definitely
stand out from the competition.
I don't think you can actually choose one path or the other. Maybe you relish the fast
pace of a new project every few weeks or months. If on a larger project, you find that
you're bored to tears "doing the same thing" every day, then it just isn't for you.
I've been out of my parent's basement for little more than a year and I have only good things to say about the dating market
Some of those eHarmony chicks are hot!
So far, there doesn't seem to be any lack of demand for a good geek
A real-live woman actually talked to me yesterday
I've got to admit, though, I feel a little disloyal at this point. Several girls have come my way and I've taken them. My list of ex-girlfriends is starting to make me look a bit restless and it worries me
I've yet to make it past the first date
Until now I've just chalked it up to 'It's just hormones,'
One or two of them have restaining orders against me
but now another chick has been dropped into my lap.
I crashed into her shopping cart at the supermarket
Would I be digging my own grave by taking this girl?
{Most likely}
It'd be only my fourth time speaking to a woman in 19 years
{The most accurate statement made so far}
but each offered benefits and a 30% to 40% increase in cup size.
{The most in-accurate statment you've made so far}
I know better than to put a price on satisfaction but I'm pretty certain I'd be happy with her even though all I ever do with girls is hold hands.
{if you're getting that far with this one...hold onto that}
Is being branded as a 'hot potato' enough to keep you from switching? What's your price on this stigma?
"hot potato" = Horny and Fat
A goal is a dream with a deadline
I think there's something to be said for sticking with a company for a while. A lot of permanent employees quit at the first sign of trouble or a better job offer. However, one of the things I like is seeing something I designed get built, released, used, improved and replaced. If you're only at a company for a year, you don't really see the results of your work, or get to learn from your mistakes. It also shows that you're willing to take the good with the bad. I work for a company that just had one of its first unprofitable years. We lost a ton of good people because of that...couldn't afford to pay out raises, etc. However, this year is shaping up to be pretty good. I'm going to get a raise, and life is good.
That said, this isn't the '50s. If you're stuck in a bad job that you know isn't doing anything for your overall career, don't stay. Back in the days of guaranteed lifetime employment and pensions (remember those??) I'm sure it was common for someone to hide in the shadows at an IBM or an AT&T and wait out a bad boss rather than quit. Personally, I wish companies would renew their "social contracts" with long-term employees. That's what made the middle class so strong in the 50s through the 70s...guaranteed income in exchange for good work.
My career advice would be to stay in a job "long enough." But, don't let your skills stagnate. Look for opportunities within your company to grow. If you have a big enough IT department, there should be plenty of places to move around.
Plusses for staying:
Plusses for job-hopping:
The thing that confuses me about this is compounding, even if he started at $40,000 a year (which seems low) four jobs later at a 30% increase each is ~$90,000 (which seems high for someone with 2 years XP). Another 30% is ~$115,000, which seems insane unless he's in the middle of Manhatan.
ustr: Managed string API with ave. 44% overhead over strdup(), for 0-20B
Having looked at a lot of resumes for candidates at the place where I work, I'd had to say the answer is yes and no. Yes, when I see an applicant who's gone through 8 jobs in the last 3 years, I do tend to wonder why and ask questions at the interview intended to see if it's because of the applicant. On the other hand, someone starting out does tend to change jobs as they acquire experience and skills, so if the applicant's just starting their career I'm not so concerned. And you seem to have the perfect reason: your job changes offered work you liked and large pay increases. Looking at that salary history I'd have to conclude the applicant was perfectly justified in changing jobs like that. The only thing I might worry about is whether my company was making the same mistake all those other employers had made, failing to keep salary matched to the market.
I think the "start to worry" flag about job-hopping is when the new jobs tend not to be obvious large improvements over the previous ones.
NO. 10% is not enough. Moving for 10% means you'll take anything with a slightly higher salary -- which is what you're advocating. It makes sense if you're flipping burgers, but not if the comapny is investing anything in you. It screams "I will leave you the minute I find anythig slighly better -- I don't care about you as people or your projects." You need to set a standard "I won't change out of a job I'm happy with for less than X%" which you'll modify with things like commute, project coolness or benefits, but which you'll stick to in general.
For most people, that number is closer to 20%.
I put a friend's resume on my boss's desk for an open position, and his job-hopping was the one thing that almost cost him the interview (I had to do some fast talking). We're in our 30s, and by the time you're 35, a resume with too many 1 and 2 year jobs (and no 4 or 5 year jobs) looks like you don't know what you want or what you're doing.
Anyone who loves or hates any language, platform, or manufacturer, doesn't know what they're talking about.
Your initial guess of $40k is probably wrong. Even in the bay area, people with no provable skills start at $30k many places. Those who then prove to have skills either get rapid raises, or they job hop ala the poster.
"Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
I'm coo-coo for cocoa puffs. Kapeesh?
Been at the present gig a little over a year but it has been very difficult to get 'hooked in'. Long story, I came on board for a particular project that wasn't ready when I arrived so I wound up getting "bounced around" and they never did quite figure out what to do with me. This, in turn, left me with a very insecure feeling about my job security here.
Meanwhile, another company (or headhunter) finds me and makes this monster offer - way too good to refuse.
This would be the second job I've left in as many years, the first was due to reductions in health care and this one is just disorganized management I suppose.
Prior to that however, I had decent longevity, and I sincerely hope this latest one turns out to be the same deal.
As far as the interview went, I was honest, but I didn't trash my current employer. In fact, they've got good people where I'm at.....they're just disorganized.
A goal is a dream with a deadline
Many previous posters have commented on the dangers and risks of frequent job-hopping, and all of them are valid. The sad thing is, these risks don't necessarily diminish when the job leaves you.
Somehow, I've managed to survive as a software engineer in data networking and telecomm equipment, even after the gigantic downturn of 2000-02. But it wasn't without pain. I was laid off in early 2002 (the company closed its Raleigh site to consolidate in NJ, and due to cost-of-living issues, I chose not to chase my job), contracted from 2003 to late 2004, landed a full-time permanent slot after that. Then that position (with a publicly-traded Silicon Valley company, filled with hubris, and no management sense) was yanked in mid-2006. (The company is in a death spiral today, so maybe they did us all a favor.) After 3 months out of work, I managed to land a contracting gig, then convert to full-time late last year.
Now, none of this was my fault; I had no say whatsoever in what happened. But during my latest round of interviews, employers would look at my resume and comment on the job-hopping. I could quickly explain it away, but I always had to explain it.
The moral of the story? Life can suck enough as it is, so don't make it any harder for yourself.
--- The American Way of Life is not a birthright. Hell, it's not even sustainable.
I stayed with one company for 5.5 years. I got lots of interviews, because many employers are actually looking for people to stay around a while. They looked at me as as 'loyal', which many companies still want.
Figure they expeect you to stay at least 2 years and prefer you to stay at least 3 to 5.
Only 'flamers' flame!
Does slashdot hate my posts?
Switching Jobs out once was enough. At least Apple was smart enough to bring him back. The man really knows how to sell products.
GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
Why is it so bad to only be in it for the money? The vast majority of jobs out there, even if challenging or non trivial, are horrifically menial and unexciting.
You, the average IT coder/admin-person, are not cutting edge. You might write mainframe control scripts or think out test cases for the intranet support web app or code out bussiness logic or write requirements all day. You don't have to be an expert in the field to do your job, although it would undoubtedly help.
Very little of what the vast majority of people in this industry, be they developers or support minions, can be accurately described as "eventful" or "exciting". Only in companies inside the tech industry (and possibly only 'Industry Leader' companies like GOOG or MSFT) and academia will you probably produce anything tangible and worth getting worked up about. If no one working on the same project as you are is writing whitepapers or presenting at conferences or even discussing it at length with an entrenched and involved user community, well, chances are you are probably part of the 90%* of the industry whose work will never be seen outside of your company's intranet.
I used to think that way, too. I was mildly shocked when the manager who was interviewing me for a co-op/junior sort-of-dev position at Large Retailer replied "Well, the money. And I get to see my family" when I asked him the same question. But then I realised, so what? That's perfectly valid. I know very, very few people who work for their self enjoyment first and to pay their bills second. I'd go as far as to say that outside of satisfaction in a job well done, which many people have and share, virtually no one is in a position of actively caring about the Job Itself.
Ideally, I'd love to do something exciting and stay late at work with a smile on my face. However, I know that this is very unlikely unless I start my own company. To that extent, I'm happy to get my self fulfillment through my own free time - my own projects, the girlfriend, etc.
Why is it not enough to be competent and capable? Why demand an unrealistic level of commitment from your employees? Why must we define our life by what we do in our day jobs?
Disclaimer: I'm a young pup who is about to embark on his very first, over-compensated job in Large Bank, still halfway through university.
*Made-up-but-close-to-real-value
"Why is it so bad to only be in it for the money? The vast majority of jobs out there, even if challenging or non trivial, are horrifically menial and unexciting."
You really want an answer? Read some of the outsourcing/immigrants are taking my job, "Get out of my profession you MSCE'er/ex-'doing it for the money'-dotcommer" stories we've had in the past.
4 jobs in 16 months? The only way I'd hire the OP is if he used the contractor angle. It's hugely expensive in terms of time and money to hire a new person, and the OP is pissing away previous employers' resources every time he moves so quickly. If I saw his resume and was in charge of screening, I'd probably ditch it. If I had a phone- or in-person interview, it would take a lot to wash the taste of his lack of loyalty away. If he said he was a contractor, then his CV would be better -- but still not 100% great, especially since he's only been working a little over a year.
It takes a little while to come up to speed and get integrated with the project/team. Four months is just on the inside of "starting to really get productive". Even a contractor needs a little time to get acclimated (though much depends on the project). I'd see his resume and wonder if either of us is wasting the other's time with an interview. Is he going to get bored in 4 months? Will he jump at some new offer and leave the rest of his team hanging? Can I put him on a team with long-term goals? Will he finish what he starts?
As far as advice for the OP: Spend some time in each job getting good at something, and then move on. You're so young (career-wise) that you need to develop both skills and working contacts. You want to have phone numbers for a bunch of people who will think "Yeah, I remember so-and-so... He was a good coder, and I liked working with him" when you call them a couple years from now. As it stands, you're simply "that guy who worked here once and then bailed out on everyone".
-B
Ash and Hickory, straight-grained and true, make excellent bludgeons, dandy for the cudgeling of vegetarians.
Here's the question: are you happy? If you are, then settle down. If not, then continue looking until you are.
-- $G
The job market for programming talent is cyclical. Right now (at least in the US), hiring programmers is very competitive and the market is good for employees. This will change sometime down the road (the job market for programmers was cycling long before the first dot-com boom and bust, and will be cycling long after), so what happens to you when the job market become competitive and you're competing with someone who has a history of staying 4+ years at an employeer instead of 4 months? Most employers won't even look twice at you.
Right now, the average tenure at a job in Silicon Valley is about 2 years, your average tenure is 4 months, you're a risk to hiring managers. Things will work out fine while the job market is an employee market, but you could really screw yourself down the line when jobs are much harder to come by.
[this is assuming that you were an employee, not a contractor. if you were a contractor, no problem, just make sure that it is clear on the resume].
They won't. The only thing the hiring manager is going to be thinking about when considering the high turnover rate is what kind of negative impact it's going to have on the year end bonus if/when the hire leaves after 4 months.
Another good reason to avoid lowballing the new hires and regularly checking how the salaries compare to compensation elsewhere.
If a hiring manager doesn't see it that way, that's fine with me. It saves us both time.
I am not a crackpot.
If a hiring manager doesn't see it that way, that's fine with me. It saves us both time. It's not like I disagree with you. But it's not like that helps the poster in any capacity.
I would say if the position offers better pay, better hours (flexibility), work environment (depending on your preferences) - go for it! Who wouldn't want more money anyways? If you're asking because you're worried about career advancement, than I would only caution to take a job with more responsibility. That way if you're seen as disloyal, your conter-argument can easily be - I'm a go-getter, motivated type. I've only taken the other position because of the extra opportunity and responsibilities offered. If the company sees you as someone that might move up in their company and offer you more pay - at least its out on the table why you left and they'll have to offer you better pay immediately or review your performance. Stay for at least 3 to 6 months. Anything less, take it off.
CaveatL I'm not a software developer, so I don't know the ins and outs of the industry that well. If "loyalty" is a factor in finishing projects I would caution against leaving. Take caution especially if you leave mid-way through an unfinished project that might be in your area of expertise (you're not easily replaced). That would certainly raise a flag of many interviewers.
That might count against you short and long term especially if the trend continues.
OTOH, of two companies that I've worked in for over 3 years: neither has many employees that remember me - most are staffed with new people in various positions. And as far as getting a favorable review when an employer calls, its pretty much the "Yes he worked here. IS that all?" type answers nowadays. Loyalty is only shown on the resume by the start and end date. I don't think its a big deal.
You think that's bad? Just be glad your surname isn't Hitler.
It's really a trade-off. Context switching does require valuable processor time, however if you don't switch very often, you lose interactivity because certain jobs sit in the queue for too long.
It is pretty expensive to be unemployed, too, especially when you have a family and a mortgage and have to choose between either spending the majority of the day dealing with narrow-minded assholes like you or eating out of a garbage can.
Hey, doesn't that say just as much (or more) about you and your fucked up managing and bullshit projects as it does about him? If you are exploiting him and will not pay him what the market rate is, then you deserve to have your team left hanging, those that are suckers enough to continue to work for you.Learn how to manage and appreciate the talents of those that work for you and then people won't jump ship on you and you won't be so insecure about those that you interview/hire, even if they look to be job-hoppers.
If you make the environment interesting, stimulating, lucrative and friendly enough, a jobhopper would not feel the need to hop.
Don't omit jobs or lie when covering your skipping out. You need to be able to document your history and avoid any issue of misrepresenting yourself. Some companies will dig into your past and missing jobs can disqualify you or be considered grounds for termination.
If you're getting good offers, by all means feel free to move along. Business is business as the Bobs of Layoff Inc. have made painfully clear. Look at what you're negotiating now that you have some history behind you. When I started, I got major raises twice a year for two years. I kept that job for 18 months and started looking, by that time, any offer that came my way came with a pay cut. I stayed there until the last round of mergers and cheesy minimum raises became the norm. I left 1 month after my final salary review listing that as one reason.
Once you've decided to leave, don't plan on negotiating for a counter offer. They'll brand you as disloyal scum and you've got a good chance of being dropped from the team when you're not prepared.
Yes, you may be costing companies money when you jump ship, but in 2007, loyalty runs from payday to payday. There's no more gold watch and pension plan waiting. If your value to company B is that much more, submit your notice. You may want to consider running your own consulting shop, or working with a consulting team. I do side jobs under my own business and count former employers as customers. If you do that while working, make sure you have documented permission for a side gig. You can negotiate that when you go over the written offer, it's much harder when you're onboard.
I've heard that if you do it too often you will go blind!!!
Bukowski has a good definition of the word. But it's a book.
sometimes, nothing.
It really depends on what sort of programming you do. For some folks they don't work for a company full time, but instead work on a contractual basis. I don't know if this is what your classification would be, but I wouldn't necessarily worry about having too much experience, so long as your leaving for completely valid reasons. What you could do, if your thinking about taking it is the following:
Assuming your manager is an open sort of person, you could approach them and express your concerns. Tell him/her that you just received a Job Offer, with increased benefits. You could then explain that while the money is tempting, you really would prefer to stay with the company you are at. You then could ask if there is any way they could match or at least improve what they are currently offering you in order to mitigate your incentive to move.
Now they might say no. They may not have the budget for it, but if you truly are that valuable a professional, then the company may very much prefer to keep you then have to go through an exhaustive process to find another candidate to train for the job.
Changing jobs often isn't necessarily a bad thing, so long as it doesn't prevent you from contributing to projects because of the learning curve each project may present