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Dell Censors IdeaStorm Linux Dissent
thefickler writes "It seems pointless to seek ideas and feedback if you're going to ignore and delete the opinions you don't like. That's exactly what Dell is doing with its IdeaStorm website, which the company set up to solicit such ideas and feedback. Dell deleted a post linking to an article that criticizes its handling of the 'pre-installed Linux' issue."
See something you don't like? Suppress it!
Go ahead, mod me down, fuckers. Your mother is a Java programmer.
Dude, you bought a [DELETED]
mod me funny
Michael Dell is back as the Chairman... Steve Balmer is a chairman..
chair and chair alike.....
- Minutus cantorum, minutus balorum, minutus carborata descendum pantorum.
I didn't read the article because for some reason it's blocked at work (we have odd filters), but it's possible the post containing the link didn't meet the requirements.
If I asked for some ideas, I would be open minded about what I received. If I got complaints instead with no ideas (not sure if the link gave suggestions or just complained), I would also remove them to try and stop the forum from becoming a flame war.
"Action without philosophy is a lethal weapon; philosophy without action is worthless."
So they deleted a post critical of them. The post then appeared on a private blog without risk of legal reprisal. No **rights** were violated unless this was allowed in the TOS, and even then those are rights granted by Dell at their site, not legal rights. It's stupid, tacky and self-defeating. I don't think anyone thinks this was a smart move on Dell's part, but it's not real censorship like what we fear. He is free to post the same post, 5x more vitriolic (provided it's all still true), anywhere he wants.
Besides, who in their right mind thought this was something more than astroturfing on Dell's part?
It seems pointless to seek ideas and feedback if you're going to ignore and delete the opinions you don't like.
Why, does asking for opinions imply that you agree to follow and publish every one of them? They might have had a different kind of feedback in mind, like new models with a different hardware feature set.
To the degree that the goal is to persuade Dell to support Linux, reinforcing the impression that Linux users are a bunch of hypersensitive crackpots who think the world owes them everything seems counterproductive.
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
really, when was the last time that YRO had a positive story?
i disable sigs
I once went to a restaurant and ordered a steak, medium-rare. I know a lot of people would rather have their steaks cooked well-done, grey all the way through. I'm not one of them. I like the tenderness that a little undercooking provides. The blood filling the plate is a delectable gravy to be sopped up with some bread. There really isn't anything I like better than a thick slab of ribeye cooked crispy on the outside and pink all the way through.
You can imagine my surprise when they delivered a mash of ground beef and some wretched oil-soaked fries on the side. I said to the waitress, this isn't what I ordered. She was unmoved. I demanded that I talk to a manager. This little pissant 20-something comes out and asks me if there is anything he can help me with. I shoved the order in his face and asked him if he thought it was a steak, medium-rare.
No, sir.
Then why the hell did you serve it to me? Are you telling me I can't order my meal the way I want it and expect a modicum of service?
Sir, this is Burger King. You can have it your way, within the bounds of our menu.
I suppose I should have gone to the steak restaurant if I wanted steak.
If there's censorship, why would the thread "Stop making excuses, and start paying attention. WE WANT LINUX!!!" still be live?
I think it is important for everyone to understand that First Amendment rights don't exist on Websites, blogs, and message forums. Those that own those communication platforms are free to delete or censure anything they feel necessary to maintain the spirit and intentions of both the supporting business and the site as a whole.
What exacerbates the issue is whenever a moderation activity takes place against either the open source community, or the Linux community, the reaction is swift, dramatic, and overdone. OMFG my post was removed.. it is a conspiracy!!!
So what! Dell removed a post on a site that was soliciting user input. Aren't there bigger problems in the world?
If I asked you to come in my house, and provide me feedback on how my living room looks, and you responded "that's the biggest piece of crap I've ever seen," then I would probably censure you and throw you out.
Lindsay Blanton
RadioReference.com
There has to be some moderation of flame-bait and trolling posts on any forum. Moreover, the post was deleted probably by an overzealous moderator, rather than through some evil Dell mastermind with a conspiracy against linux.
I didn't see the original post that was deleted, but in general, you'll find, especially on public boards, that criticisms don't always fit under the category of ideas. Constructive criticism would do well on a board called IdeaStorm, but if you are simply saying "Your implementation sucks," it's not much of an idea.
Again, didn't see the deleted post.
This is the equivalant of a slashdot moderator moderating a post -1 off-topic or -1 troll. With the obvious exception is that there is no ability to read at -1 on dellideastorm.
Ideas and suggestions are one thing. Posting an off-topic criticism is another.
Note: I do not agree with the choice to remove the post. But I also understand the reasoning behind the decision.
I swear, the bias and overeacting around here is as bad as fox news lately. Censorship... please. China has censorship. This little Dell forum moderation is peanuts compared to REAL censorship. Get a grip, Slashdot.
Dell is paying consumers to use Windows! The exact same Dell Latitude D520 Notebook costs $48 MORE if it comes with no operating system than if it comes with Windows.
The laptop loaded with Windows XP costs $699, while the same laptop and configuration loaded with no operating system costs $747. Note that you must change the following two hardware options on the web page showing laptop without an OS so that they match the hardware options found by default for the Windows laptop: Hard drive=60GB 5400RPM and Modular Bay Optical="8X DVD".
So it seems that Windows has a negative price tag as far as Dell is concerned! It looks like Dell is still subsidizing Microsoft for every Windows-free laptop they sell. I'm getting my laptop from System76 -- they sell excellent quality Linux laptops, desktops, and servers. They also have a great support team that cares about Linux and open source.
The editors are feeding a troll again. Dell did not open this forum to get educated about the freedom of speech. They wanted people to tell them how they can "improve [their] products and services". Pretty clear, is it not? An inflammatory comment about their way of supporting GNU/Linux does not belong there. Read TFA, the author makes it sound like Dell is spitting on the GNU/Linux community by opting to (gasp) certify the hardware rather than install and support some random distribution.
One man's censor is another man's editor.
It seems pointless to seek ideas and feedback if you're going to ignore and delete the opinions you don't like.
Maybe it's pointless but everybody does it all the time. Half the time, if I say, "hey, what do you think of X?" I'm looking for, "X is really great, you did a good job on it." It's psychological, don't tell me you don't do the same.
Dell deleted a post linking to an article that criticizes its handling of the 'pre-installed Linux' issue.
Sounds to me that they deleted a post linking to a whiny bitch. Let's try this little summary mixer;
"It seems pointless to submit ideas and feedback to Dell if you're going to write a whiny article because they don't do exactly what you want."
Besides, Dell is a huge corporation. They're investigating a process to get their hardware approved by Linux distributers. For a huge corporation, that's a major undertaking... I'm sure whoever wrote that whiny article was looking for, "yes sir, we'll have those on shelves tomorrow!" as a response.
Comment of the year
The reason this matters is that there are no Linux laptops available from any vendor bigger than a garage shop.
Yes, there's Linux Certified, in the same building with Mr. Chau's Chinese Fast Food in San Jose. And there's System76, whose address is a Pak Mail in Denver.
If you're selling hardware that may have to be maintained or replaced, you need to be bigger than that to play.
Of course, once upon a time there was VA Linux, but we know what happened to them.
"they sell excellent quality Linux laptops, desktops, and servers."
Just curious. Have you already purchased systems from them? How did you come to this conclusion?
Thanks
The truth is that Dell could be giving him Linux today. Dell makes excuses about having to ramp up support. Dell has sold Linux before, they know how to do it. We bought a box from them. The support came from Red Hat, not Dell. The reality is that Dell wouldn't even be doing the OS support! They farm it out to Suse or Red Hat or whomever.
Oh, but they have to guarantee hardware compatibility. Heck, I can do that in an hour or two. I build boxes all the time with info I get off the internet.
The truth is that they're not going to make Linux easy to get if at all. M$ owns their asses.
I feel like death on a soda cracker.
http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS3822185143.htm
It seems we have our answer.
pre-loaded windows systems come full of advertisement crap such as free AOL installs which will dramatically decrease the cost of the PC to you and me. This is one of the many ways PC manufacturers keep the cost of the machine down. It's very likely that the advertising revenue is greater than the pittance they pay for the OS in their ginormous OEM contract so it doesn't surprise me at all. There won't be any advertising software in that machine with no OS and there's unlikely to be advertising software pre-loaded onto a linux machine. It's unlikely to be a major conspiracy, occam's razor and what not. Alternatively, maybe they could start selling PCs with a giant AOL logo on the side of the case. I'm sure that would go over well.
Check out my lame java blog at www.javachopshop.com
From my personal experience we don't need no freaking support from them anyway. The last Dell laptop I used didn't completely blow donkey balls when I installed Linux on it. I was able to get high resolution, the docking station, wireless and the ethernet cards to work and was able to spin the fans up from sofware for when I ran Wine (Which always seems to want to cause a meltdown.) It also didn't give me third degree penis burns when I tried to use it in my lap. You always had plenty of warning when Wine was heating the machine up to penis boiling temperatures.
I don't see why their company policy with Linux can't just be "Probably won't suck donkey balls. Won't boil your penis," and leave it at that. I mean really, we're linux people, what more do we really need?
Of course these days I'm quite happy with the PPC Powermac I use. It never gets more than warm, wireless and ssh worked right out of the box and I didn't feel a burning urge to replace the OS the moment I turned it on. So sorry, Dell, even though your product doesn't suck donkey balls and doesn't boil my penis, the guys with the black tee shirts and the hair mousse still win.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
I'm calling Bullshit. Its still there About 2/3 of the way down the page. People really need to do just a little research before comming to these assumptions. It just got bumbed off the main page on the hacked down main page because they cant fit all of the comments there.
If i had one dollar for every brain you dont have, i would have $1.
One way they offer lower prices is by doing free advertizing on slashdot.
Intron: the portion of DNA which expresses nothing useful.
Cars are different--why is this analogy always used? it's horrible--and I think you might have missed the point. What's the use of manufacturers installing Linux and offering support if they're just going to pre-install a spyware filled custom version? They may as well install Windows.
At least with Windows you can buy a retail copy and install spyware free. If they install some custom "Dell OS" it doesn't matter that's it's Linux and it's supported, if they find out you're running Fedora or Ubuntu or whatever they say "Piss Off." Welcome to the present state. Nothing changed.
The whole thing is we want something BETTER than the current "Install Linux and you get no support" situation.