Dell Censors IdeaStorm Linux Dissent

thefickler writes "It seems pointless to seek ideas and feedback if you're going to ignore and delete the opinions you don't like. That's exactly what Dell is doing with its IdeaStorm website, which the company set up to solicit such ideas and feedback. Dell deleted a post linking to an article that criticizes its handling of the 'pre-installed Linux' issue."

Comments

Ahh.

[Anonymous Coward]

See something you don't like? Suppress it!

Go ahead, mod me down, fuckers. Your mother is a Java programmer.

Re:Ahh.

[644bd346996]

Actually, my mom does like coding in BASIC. My grandmother was more of a punch-card woman, though.

Re:Ahh.

[mdkathon]

Is it not Dell's right to remove anything that they feel is negative coverage on their own website? As much as I want to get behind this "damn the man" smear job (not). I'd like to think that fellow Slashdotters understand that it is not in Dell's interest to try and make Linux available to the masses. It's a headache from a support standpoint. Though their management may be a little heavy handed for our liking we cannot blame them for not allowing participants of IdeaStorm to cross-link to articles criticizing Dell for not having Linux as a choice. We can install Linux if we want to. We can also choose hardware vendors that support Linux. Do we need to whine and complain as well?

Re:Ahh.

[jc42]

Is it not Dell's right to remove anything that they feel is negative coverage on their own website?

Yes, of course they have the right to suppress whatever they want on their own stuff. In fact, we should expect this from most organizations run by humans.

But many of us would really like to know when this is happening. It tells us a lot about the trustworthiness of their information. If an organization (corporation, government, whatever) wants our trust, they should make their information handling "transparent" and visible to us. Otherwise, we'll just infer that they have something to hide from us.

Nobody with a grain of sense ever trusts any organization that hides or suppresses information about their inner workings. (And yes, this does mean that I don't trust very many organizations. We have words for someone who does. Words like "naïve" and "sucker". ;-)

Dude

[smitty97]

Dude, you bought a [DELETED]

There are more civil ways

[pilgrim23]

Michael Dell is back as the Chairman... Steve Balmer is a chairman..

chair and chair alike.....

Ideas or Criticism

[Ogive17]

I didn't read the article because for some reason it's blocked at work (we have odd filters), but it's possible the post containing the link didn't meet the requirements.

If I asked for some ideas, I would be open minded about what I received. If I got complaints instead with no ideas (not sure if the link gave suggestions or just complained), I would also remove them to try and stop the forum from becoming a flame war.

Re:Ideas or Criticism

[jimstapleton]

Synopsis: Dell would make some buisiness models "Linux Ready", and look into other models. They would pick SUSE as their distro of choice.

Roughly the idea storm post I read (not the article, but it linked to it), someone decided to complain that.
1) Dell wasn't providing Linux support for all models NOW
2) Dell wasn't given a guranteed time frame or even a gurantee on making all models "Linux ready" or "Linux preinstalled"
3) Dell picked SUSE, the Linux that pays MS.

The persond didn't use profanity and wasnt exceptionally inflamatory given how ticked off he seemded, but at the same time, he was complaining that he wasn't handed the sun and moon on a silver platter right now.

Why is this under YRO?

[MikeRT]

So they deleted a post critical of them. The post then appeared on a private blog without risk of legal reprisal. No **rights** were violated unless this was allowed in the TOS, and even then those are rights granted by Dell at their site, not legal rights. It's stupid, tacky and self-defeating. I don't think anyone thinks this was a smart move on Dell's part, but it's not real censorship like what we fear. He is free to post the same post, 5x more vitriolic (provided it's all still true), anywhere he wants.

Besides, who in their right mind thought this was something more than astroturfing on Dell's part?

Overstatement

[iamacat]

It seems pointless to seek ideas and feedback if you're going to ignore and delete the opinions you don't like.

Why, does asking for opinions imply that you agree to follow and publish every one of them? They might have had a different kind of feedback in mind, like new models with a different hardware feature set.

Re:Overstatement

[HomelessInLaJolla]

does asking for opinions imply that you agree to follow and publish every one of them Probably not but I've always seen coverups (selectively and somewhat ambiguously deleting posts) as disingenuous.

You know...

[Otter]

To the degree that the goal is to persuade Dell to support Linux, reinforcing the impression that Linux users are a bunch of hypersensitive crackpots who think the world owes them everything seems counterproductive.

Re:You know...

[Anonymous Coward]

Linux users are a bunch of hypersensitive crackpots who think the world owes them everything

Now, you've hit the nail on the head.

I know this is going to get modded down but I'm being very honest: The Linux community is turning into it's own worst enemy. Have it shoved in your face with all the fanatical zest of a religious cult visiting your home at 6am on a weekend morning is going to turn many many people sour to the message before it ever gets told.

How many companies that are dealing with Joe Sixpack users really want to be aligned with a fringe group like the Linux community? Not many.

Right place, right time

[BadAnalogyGuy]

I once went to a restaurant and ordered a steak, medium-rare. I know a lot of people would rather have their steaks cooked well-done, grey all the way through. I'm not one of them. I like the tenderness that a little undercooking provides. The blood filling the plate is a delectable gravy to be sopped up with some bread. There really isn't anything I like better than a thick slab of ribeye cooked crispy on the outside and pink all the way through.

You can imagine my surprise when they delivered a mash of ground beef and some wretched oil-soaked fries on the side. I said to the waitress, this isn't what I ordered. She was unmoved. I demanded that I talk to a manager. This little pissant 20-something comes out and asks me if there is anything he can help me with. I shoved the order in his face and asked him if he thought it was a steak, medium-rare.

No, sir.
Then why the hell did you serve it to me? Are you telling me I can't order my meal the way I want it and expect a modicum of service?
Sir, this is Burger King. You can have it your way, within the bounds of our menu.

I suppose I should have gone to the steak restaurant if I wanted steak.

Re:Right place, right time

[truthsearch]

Hey, give BadAnalogyGuy a break. He's just trying to live up to his name.

Re:Right place, right time

[Mr. Underbridge]

The red juice from a steak is not blood.

Uh, yeah it is. What the hell do you think it is?

If you are trying to cast Dell as analogous to Burger King then you're gonna have a hard time convincing anyone. You may not like the taste of Dell's "food" but they made of living off of "made to order" configurability. Dell pioneered that.

His analogy's spot on. Burger King's motto, as he put it, is "have it your way." Now they at least assume that what you might want is at least roughly the same as most of their other customers, so if you come in and want anchovies on your burger you're SOL. Same with Dell. Yes, they do configure it for you, but there are limits to it and one of the limits they've chosen to set is they're not dealing with Linux for consumers. Quite frankly, I don't blame them.

So I'd say the original analogy is correct. If the company in question simply doesn't sell what you want, buy from someone else. I really don't get the furor, it's not like Dell is the only computer manufacturer. And any Linux geek worth his/her salt is going to want to install their own thing anyway.

If it's just about not paying the MS "tax," let's make that it's own issue.

Similar threads are still live

[byjove]

If there's censorship, why would the thread "Stop making excuses, and start paying attention. WE WANT LINUX!!!" still be live?

Seesh People.. better things to do?

[blantonl]

I think it is important for everyone to understand that First Amendment rights don't exist on Websites, blogs, and message forums. Those that own those communication platforms are free to delete or censure anything they feel necessary to maintain the spirit and intentions of both the supporting business and the site as a whole.

What exacerbates the issue is whenever a moderation activity takes place against either the open source community, or the Linux community, the reaction is swift, dramatic, and overdone. OMFG my post was removed.. it is a conspiracy!!!

So what! Dell removed a post on a site that was soliciting user input. Aren't there bigger problems in the world?

If I asked you to come in my house, and provide me feedback on how my living room looks, and you responded "that's the biggest piece of crap I've ever seen," then I would probably censure you and throw you out.

Re:Seesh People.. better things to do?

[spun]

If I asked you to come in my house, and provide me feedback on how my living room looks, and you responded "that's the biggest piece of crap I've ever seen," then I would probably censure you and throw you out.

That's very rude of you. You ask someone to come over and give you their opinion for free, which you will then profit from by having a nicer house, and you kick them out because you don't like what they said?

Given our current property laws, that is certainly within your rights. It is also within my rights to stand at the edge of a property waving a large sign saying "Rude person lives here."

As always, freedom of the press only applies to those that own a press. Otherwise, you are free (for now) to go find a street corner and shout at passers by.

I get the feeling that even complaining about this issue pisses off a lot of authoritarian-types. It seems there are a number of people in the world who really, really want everyone else to stop complaining about anything that might hurt the profits of a business. We should all just lie back and think of England.

Businesses have a right to do certain things that piss us off. That does not mean that we have no right to complain about it. And the mere existence of other, larger problems in the world also does not remove our right to complain about this one.

Much Ado about deleting a Troll Post?

[Silentknyght]

Did you read the post that was deleted? It's a brief post that came off as if it was written by an angry teenager. It smacked more of a personal attack than a cool-tempered, well-written, logical argument.

There has to be some moderation of flame-bait and trolling posts on any forum. Moreover, the post was deleted probably by an overzealous moderator, rather than through some evil Dell mastermind with a conspiracy against linux.

The post was posted wrong

[twifosp]

Look people this is not some grand case of censorship, it's moderation pure and simple and that is something Slashdotters should be able to appreciate. The site, idea storm, is a website soliciting ideas. It is NOT for posting criticisms and off-topic crap.

This is the equivalant of a slashdot moderator moderating a post -1 off-topic or -1 troll. With the obvious exception is that there is no ability to read at -1 on dellideastorm.

Ideas and suggestions are one thing. Posting an off-topic criticism is another.

Note: I do not agree with the choice to remove the post. But I also understand the reasoning behind the decision.

I swear, the bias and overeacting around here is as bad as fox news lately. Censorship... please. China has censorship. This little Dell forum moderation is peanuts compared to REAL censorship. Get a grip, Slashdot.

Dell laptops cost MORE w/ no OS than w/ Windows!

[billybob2]

Dell is paying consumers to use Windows! The exact same Dell Latitude D520 Notebook costs $48 MORE if it comes with no operating system than if it comes with Windows.

The laptop loaded with Windows XP costs $699, while the same laptop and configuration loaded with no operating system costs $747. Note that you must change the following two hardware options on the web page showing laptop without an OS so that they match the hardware options found by default for the Windows laptop: Hard drive=60GB 5400RPM and Modular Bay Optical="8X DVD".

So it seems that Windows has a negative price tag as far as Dell is concerned! It looks like Dell is still subsidizing Microsoft for every Windows-free laptop they sell. I'm getting my laptop from System76 -- they sell excellent quality Linux laptops, desktops, and servers. They also have a great support team that cares about Linux and open source.

troll

[melikamp]

The editors are feeding a troll again. Dell did not open this forum to get educated about the freedom of speech. They wanted people to tell them how they can "improve [their] products and services". Pretty clear, is it not? An inflammatory comment about their way of supporting GNU/Linux does not belong there. Read TFA, the author makes it sound like Dell is spitting on the GNU/Linux community by opting to (gasp) certify the hardware rather than install and support some random distribution.

Censor this

[jamesl]

One man's censor is another man's editor.

Re:Dell laptops cost MORE w/ no OS than w/ Windows

[bberens]

pre-loaded windows systems come full of advertisement crap such as free AOL installs which will dramatically decrease the cost of the PC to you and me. This is one of the many ways PC manufacturers keep the cost of the machine down. It's very likely that the advertising revenue is greater than the pittance they pay for the OS in their ginormous OEM contract so it doesn't surprise me at all. There won't be any advertising software in that machine with no OS and there's unlikely to be advertising software pre-loaded onto a linux machine. It's unlikely to be a major conspiracy, occam's razor and what not. Alternatively, maybe they could start selling PCs with a giant AOL logo on the side of the case. I'm sure that would go over well.

Um... its still there

[hcmtnbiker]

I'm calling Bullshit. Its still there About 2/3 of the way down the page. People really need to do just a little research before comming to these assumptions. It just got bumbed off the main page on the hacked down main page because they cant fit all of the comments there.

Re:Dell laptops cost MORE w/ no OS than w/ Windows

[Intron]

One way they offer lower prices is by doing free advertizing on slashdot.