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Is Vista a Trap?
logube writes "BBC has up an article about the trap of installing Vista in your existing desktop. Written by Tim Weber, a self-confessed 'sucker for technology,' this article is a good introduction to the pain and extra money required to get going with the newest version of Windows. See how you can spend an extra 130 british pounds, and still have no working webcam! Says Weber, 'It took me one day to get online. The detail is tedious and highly technical: reinstalling drivers and router firmware didn't work, but after many trial and error tweaks to Vista's TCP/IP settings, I had internet access. Once online, Creative's website told me that my sound card was a write-off. No Vista support would be forthcoming.'"
as this happened with xp-64, didn't it?
also, by that logic, linux is a trap
I read the article earlier today, and while I thought it was very well written, I couldn't help but feel disappointed that the single most loathable feature of Vista, wasn't even mentioned, not even in a perfunctory way.
I know I am a minority, but for me Fair Use is a big issue. Sadly, Vista has completely opened the doors to DRM on the desktop. Well, not on mine.
"The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
So how is installing Linux any harder?
Money is the root of all evil?
DRTFA, because it's slashdotted, but how good can the reviewer be? Why on earth would Vista require new router firmware. The router doesn't care what it's connected to. It doesn't touch the OS of the computers connected to it. If you're installing a new OS, and as part of the process you THINK you need to update your router firmware, you've got bigger problems than a crappy OS--you're an idiot!
I don't agree with "slightly better than XP" it seems to be a bloated resource hog that does nothing new (UAC? poorly implemented) the fancy GUI could be had on XP and the DX10 only on Vista is scam if I ever saw one.
No it's bad news and should be avoided; only I know the tech junkies out there are going to fall for it.
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
Linux as a whole might take some blame if an older version worked with the hardware (say in kernel 2.4) , but a newer version (say kernel 2.6) didn't. This does happen on occasion, but it is generally fixed-up by either an OSS developer that wants to use the hardware, or the vendor (such as the Nvidia binaries).
Remember, Vista is purported to be somewhat of an upgrade/improvement over XP. That means that people expect it to do what XP does, and more. It's still MS windows, just a newer, shinier, bulkier ones.
So if your winmodem worked in 2.4.x and not in 2.6.x, you might have a legitimate gripe at linux. Generally such things come out in the next-version bugfixes, but issues do happen where a particular newer version does not like certain hardware, or the source-code for modules doesn't compile and no newer-version source is available. If there never was support for your winmodem in the first place (note, WINmodem is a good giveway that it's not non-windows friendly), then the blame rests somewhat on the manufacturer for not providing a driver, or at least specs for such. In the case of winmodems, the software pretty much is most of the product, so the manufacturers guard it fairly closely.
And people survived trench warfare but that is no reason to throw a mustard gas party.
The simple truth is that right now most people will get zero benefit from Vista. And for some people they will actually loose functionality that they currently have.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
Yes.
Except, certain things in Vista still work better than under (say) Ubuntu, or a lot of other Linux distributions.
Like, say, 802.11 configuration.
Or perhaps, volume controls. I've given up on getting a proper working fucking volume control on my SB Live-equipped Ubuntu desktop machine.
Or Bluetooth. Such pain and trauma to configure a Bluetooth mouse with Linux, but it was straight-forward with Vista.
Or video drivers. Neither Vista nor XP has ever trashed my video drivers with an automatic update. Meanwhile, every time Ubuntu switches to a new nvidia-legacy driver, my desktop machine needs to be tickled again before X will work. (I know - I should just stick with the free nv driver, since there's no fucking games for Linux to make 3D worth caring about, anyway. But I like xscreensaver's GL hacks.)
Vista's not perfect, though. It killed support for DirectSound3D and EAX, making games less enjoyable to play (for me, anyway). However, EAX never worked at all in Linux, so I guess I don't feel "trapped" anymore than I do with Linux.
Kid-proof tablet..
Yeah seriously. I don't think the people that would buy Vista for DX10 are going to sit around for 5 years while Wine works on DX10. Wine is great and all, but that's really just not going to cut it. Like it or not, you are going to need Vista for DirectX10...there's no doubt about that.
"Those who would sacrifice essential liberties for a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - BenF
Yes unfortunately I tend to forget how different /. is when it comes to vague posts or ranting.
I have used Vista, I do not like it, it's intrusive and annoying to me (yes I do want to run that exe), I personally don't care about eye candy, I am into performance which vista does not have unless you are running a state of the art proc, 4 gig's of RAM and a high end graphics card (which none have decent drivers as of yet)
I'm not going to get into the DRM portion of Vista.
You're a sucker to buy it and a fool to run it.
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
I've been running Vista at work for a few months now, since Beta 2, doing compatibility testing. I have thus far not managed to run in to its DRM. This is because I don't have any DRM'd media. It turns out there are not evil DRM gremlins hiding on my system, trying to steal my media. All the video I shoot and edit works fine, my OGG/FLAC collection works fine, etc. Yes, if I were to get an HD-DVD or Blu-ray drive and try to play movies I'm sure I'd have to contend with the DRM. Well, I'm not so there's not really a concern there.
Basically to me Vista's DRM doesn't add any value, but it doesn't interfere with my work in any way. Thus I really just don't care. I don't see any way it it hurts my fair use. Please remember that the HD formats are encrypted anyhow, it's not like Vista does anything with that, and the decryption tools that have been released run fine on Vista. Maybe I'll encounter a problem with it at some point (that's why I'm testing it, to see what the problems with supporting it will be) but not yet.
It seems to me that "DRM" has become a poorly defined scare word for many people. They throw it around without knowing what it really means, just that it is bad and that you should hate it. I agree that DRM is not a useful technology, but let's be straight about when it does and doesn't matter. Vista does not have DRM gremlins that try to eat your media. Your unDRM'd media does not stop working, the tools for creating it do not stop working. No, video output is not degraded, I get full resolution in everything I do (since all the media isn't DRM'd) despite lacking an HDCP monitor and video card.
If it doesn't affect you, not likely to make it in to a "thing that didn't work for me" article, is it?
So is this about right for typical end users such as myself?
- wait at least one year after a new release of operating system
- if you can't do it yourself, pay someone else to evaluate your existing pc to see if an upgrade is possible and if it is possible, to make sure you get exactly what you need
- make sure the person you pay for evaluation has no stake in selling you a new pc
- if an upgrade is not possible, secure your old system as much as humanly possible and ride it until using the old system is no longer possible, plausible or just plain insane (like one of my friends using Windows 95 until last week and my cousin switched her over to Ubuntu)
- when all else dies by a new pc
- find something useful to do with your old pc (donate it, etc.)
There is also the issue of trying to run a new OS. Certainly, no one that is faint of heart should install Vista today, or even in the next year. The PC makes should not even be shipping Vista mandatory for the next six months. It is new, and customers should not be forced to buy it.
This reminds me of trying to install any OS, especially in old hardware. I could never get a my build of Linux to install on my old Compaq, because I could never get the machine to recognize enough RAM. I had to do clean install of OS X on a pre-2000 machine because the installer crashed the machine. both of these were totally acceptable because I was installing a new OS on an old machine. The only news here is MS is not being honest with the product capabilities.
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
I'm not sure what lies you've been reading about UAC, but it conditions users to always say "Yes" to security prompts. This is a very terrible idea and in this situation the criticism is well deserved.
"You are about to open the Control Panel -- allow or deny?"
"You are about to open the Program Files folder -- allow or deny?"
"You are about to modify user preferences -- allow or deny?
"You are about to open attachment pzxyTrojan.exe -- allow or deny?"
Allow.. allow.. allow.. allow.. allow..
I went to eat some animal crackers and the box said, "Do not eat if seal is broken." I opened the box and sure enough..
Proof by very large bribes. QED.
You're out of touch. Most Linux distros still manage this quite easily, especially the ones that aspire to a higher level of quality. Debian and Ubuntu can, to name two.
I've bought Mac hardware. I dual boot Linux and XP on PC hardware. Kindly, I'll not get over Microsoft's habit of writing terrible software for the benefit of ending a debate that you began. Vista is software designed to sell PC's. It was not designed with the consumer's needs in mind, and there's no reason it needed to be. It's because of this attitude that computers somehow lose the ability to function properly simply because you need it to do new things.
Computers are not old dogs. General purpose machines were designed in the hopes that they could learn new tricks. Your attitude perpetuates the belief that new functionality requires new hardware, which is exactly what will continue to drive down the quality of software in this world.
Why is it bad to demand more? We're the consumers.
Attention deficit disorder is a complicated issue, spanning several major... HEY LET'S GO RIDE BIKES!
Not supporting DX9 makes no business sense. DX10-only games will be games by Microsoft, or games for which Microsoft paid the developer their expected DX9 profits to be DX10-only.
Only to idiots, are orders laws.
-- Henning von Tresckow
I was reading an article recently where people were looking for ways to explain what the problems are with digital rights management technology to non technically minded people.
Examples given tended to be along the lines of "I can't watch foreign released films, they were never released locally so I have no legal option, and I need this for my book report." and "You shouldn't have to pay for that song again, you already paid for it."
These are, quite frankly, not the most pressing examples I could think of.
Here's some examples you can show your mom and dad:
1) Broadcast news will be all be digitally signed by the big media companies.
The same technology used to cause your saved version of American Idol to self-destruct can be used after the fact to erase news right off your home electronics. It will also prevent it from being transferred to unprotected permanent media, or played back from any backup.
2) Medical software and data will all be digitally signed by the rights owners.
The same technology used to stop software piracy could be used after the fact to switch off hospitals and clinics that don't pay their bills. There is massive financial incentive to design this to happen automatically. Anyone who doubts the realism of this scenario need only look as far as the behavior of the existing drug companies.
3) Company files will all be digitally signed.
If you are being screwed over by your employer or any company you have business dealings with, they will be able to ensure that you don't make anyone else aware of it.
Anyone who thinks this technology is about protecting Britney Spears from Bluebeard the Pirate is missing the point. This is about totalitarianism.
-1 Uncomfortable Truth
It's about time to give up on PC gaming, especially with the beauty, convenience and comfort of today's powerful consoles (both of them). Nothing compares to 5.1 Dolby TrueHD sound blasting from a nice surround system while you're seated on a comfortable couch in front of your high-def TV of choice. You get your shooters, online games, web surfing, etc.
With Vista, MS gives us another reason to turn towards consoles as a smarter choice. It's currently an unnecessary upgrade that wraps your media in shackles with DRM and pesters you every 5 minutes to second guess whatever you want to do with it. Oh and it's expensive and won't look pretty unless you spend some $$$ on your computer.
The days of Wintendo are numbered and I think Vista is a good reason to bring the curtain down.
Everybody cheer, it's Pick Apart the Zealot time!
Everyone sitting comfortably?
The BBC author concludes the same thing, and that's what sucks. He says to wait and get Vista pre-installed. Doing that won't fix his webcam or his pocket PC.
No, but you missed the point. He says Vista isn't worth it for him right now, but will be if he upgrades. Revel in the small victory that may offer you, but don't misinterpret it. Regardless, support will come and soon, if he's willing to wait and he chose a good manufacturer.
Those and his old computer, which is twice as nice as anything I have, will become more toxic waste.
Because now that he's not using Vista his computer automatically melts down?
What has he gotten that he did not have? Nothing but a prettier interface and a false promise of better security. Upgrading non free software is like that, difficult, costly and unnecessary.
Seeing as you've never bothered to check, you wouldn't have a clue what Vista has that's new anyway, and I'm not here to educate you. Needless to say, tell the people upgrading Ubuntu on this thread that repeatedly lose time and effort to fixing the problems it causes on each update how 'difficult' and 'costly' upgrading is. Time is money, and no update to XP ever broke my video card.
Replacing everything only marginally decreases your difficulty because you then have to purchase, install and relearn the new interfaces for all the programs that actually do your work and play.
We had this conversation before and you failed to provide a good answer - have any of the window managers for Linux remained identical for the last 12 years? How about the last 10? The last 7? Didn't think so.
When you are through with that, you can begin the long and non transferable process of making your desktop comfortable and retrieving the old data that your masters allow you to keep.
Care to provide a source that says data automagically disappears when you upgrade if MS decides you can't use it? I'll finish that for you: you can't, because it doesn't. More bullshit (shock and disgust everyone).
The fanboy part of this equation is thinking you need non free software to begin with. The author's conclusion is basically, M$ at any cost.
No, it's not. The authors conclusion apparently sailed over your head as easily as all the other reasons to use Windows over Linux do. Nobody 'needs' non-free software in the same nobody 'needs' free software. Shockingly, it's a matter of preference.
"It does not do to leave a live dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him." - Tolkien
Is it really a smart move for game makers to require Vista though? It seems like a lot of people aren't switching, not just ./ers, but in general. Won't it be smarter to keep going with DX9 and XP for quite some time, until you can be sure that the general audience of gamers has moved on?
Just a thought.
"...but its nice to know my account has user level priveledges[sic] instead of admin..."
Awesome, welcome to 1975! You must be a really proud owner of a modern, prior art ripping operating system.
Remember, Microsoft said exactly the same thing about XP and 2000 that they do about Vista, and that they have about every single version of Windows except pehaps 1.0: "Faster, more secure, more personalized, better than ever before!"
And we say exactly the same thing we've always said: "Bloated, incompatible, too invasive, look at that WGA!" XP has the same privacy issues, 2000 had worse (if possible) compatibility issues.
But around SP1 or SP2, XP became livable, arguably better than 2000. And probably around SP1, 2000 became stable enough, and was obviously a HUGE upgrade compared to 98 -- so huge that if they hadn't done it when they did, Linux probably would've taken over.
So, we're going to have the same thing happen here. I predict that in roughly 2 years, around SP1 or SP2, Vista will actually be better than XP. But it isn't yet -- too much stuff isn't compatible, and the "beta" was a laugh; if you buy it now, you are their gamma testers.
Smart people stick with XP, and let the rest of the world test and debug Vista for us.
Me? I'll keep dual-booting XP and Linux (Ubuntu here, Gentoo at home).
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
Fuck that! Why would I want to replace my nice, general-purpose, hackable PC with DRM-infested proprietary crap?
(Note: I'm not going to be playing games on Vista, either.)
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
> It's about time to give up on PC gaming, especially with the beauty, convenience and
> comfort of today's powerful consoles (both of them).
When I can mod my games and load new/free content as easily as I can on the PC, I'll buy a console again. (Anybody got an ETA on that?) Other than that, the ease of use, bang-for-the-buck, and robustness of consoles makes them the obvious choice.
Ask me about my sig!
Hmmm... the others seem to be busy. Let me take a crack at this.
You are a hateful M$ shill. Unsupplied hardware drivers are the manufacturer's fault only if you are talking about Linux. Otherwise, it is M$'s fault. Unless, of course, you are talking about Apple. Then, the pre-approved hardware only aspect is a glorious thing brought down from the mountain by the apostle Jobs. All else are heathens who shall burn in hell.
You are trying to stop the spread of linux and apple. You are a bad person. You eat babies and beat the homeless.
Is that okay? Sorry, I am new at this. I wanted to say something about your parentage and driving habits too, but I have to go let the dog out.
By the way I am suffering day-to-day on a debian box in my office only because I don't have enough privileges to upgrade the kernel... I can feel your pain Vista users.
This is such a cash cow for hardware developers. Simply by refusing to write drivers for old hardware, they now have a ton of cash coming in from people who are forced to upgrade. Kaching!
It's not as if the old sound card "wouldn't work with Vista" or something... I mean, how far has sound card technology come in the last 20 years? Not very far, is how far.
And of course if you have that kind of hardware,
Someone give that poster a gold star and quote him in a sig! Such wisdom will surely echo down the ages...
Or even ditching DX completely and using OpenGL.
Game companies arent stupid. They know people are trying other OS's.
Google, id software, Epic and others have moved accordingly.
I'm betting that other companies are considering it.
So, it sounds like when they are done reimplementing UNIX, they might just have a fine operating system.
It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
Not everyone who uses a computer is a moronic follower of the games industry. Some people actually use it for doing useful work rather than spending their lifes blasting things up at 60FPS. Such people do not need DX10 whatsoever.
I don't feel like it...
What new games? Given all the driver and compatibility issues, do you really think companies are going to release DirectX 10 only games any time soon? I think not.
Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.