Apple Care Efficiency When Macs Break?

cyber-dragon.net asks: "I have long been a staunch supporter of Apple and Macs, however my recent experience with trying to bring them into my department, at work, has been disappointing. We had a Mac Pro (the big quad processor monster) die after four days. Of course, this kind of stuff happens, and everything else has worked flawlessly. I even dealt with the inevitable teasing about the shiny new Mac being a lemon. Almost four hours dealing with Apple Care, three hours dropping off and picking up my computer at different stores, as per their instructions, trying to get this done quickly — I am beginning to wonder if Apple really wants business customers to rely on these machines. Much as I may dislike Dell, when my Linux box died it was fixed in four hours, and I spent maybe 20 minutes of my time setting up the repair. I have spent seven hours of my time so far on this Mac, and it still will not power up. Is this just me or have other people lost critical business machines to the depths of Apple Care inefficiency and lack of business level support?"

Comments

AppleCare is great...

[AKAImBatman]

...for consumer support. It sounds like the problem you're having is that you're demanding the type of turnaround that many business-level plans provide. Yet Apple doesn't have a standard business-level plan in place.

The normal process is that you drop the computer off, wait a week or two, and pick it up to find it in spectacular condition. (Usually better than when you dropped it off; above and beyond fixing whatever you brought it in for.) The key is that you have to show a modicum of patience, something which businesses often can't afford to do.

Now that's not to say that Apple doesn't want your business. In fact, I imagine that Apple would love to provide corporate support. But you're not going to find it in their stores. What you need to do is contact Apple Corporate and explain the situation. Tell them that you've been tasked to covert your business from an all-Windows platform to an all-Mac platform. Explain that the AppleCare store plans appear to be insufficient for your needs, and also explain the exact issues you've had with them.

I would be very much suprised if Apple didn't assign you an account representative to take care of your needs. It might require a bit of FexExing back and forth, but you'll get support handled a lot better than if you try and take your needs to the geniuses (pun intended) at the Apple Store.

Good luck!

Re:AppleCare is great...

[tsnee]

Usually better than when you dropped it off Depends on which Apple Store. The one in Durham, NC always returned my laptop in worse condition. I would sit in the store for six hours to tell someone my DVD drive was broken, wait three or four weeks to get my computer back, then find that its wireless networking no longer worked. Take it back, wait a few weeks, find that the sound no longer worked. The last time I bothered to take it in, they didn't even put all the screws back in the case! After six months of this, my extended warranty finally expired, and now I am no longer a customer.

Re:AppleCare is great...

[elrous0]

Wow, that sounds like a bunch of that stuffed-shirt/John Hodgeman/PC stuff. Surely a hipster like Apple would never lower themselves to such uncool depths as "assigning an account representative from Apple Corporate." They're more the free-wheeling, outside the box, creative types.

"Service your broken Apple? No way, man. The problem is YOU, not the computer! You're just not cool enough to use it. If you had listened to REM *BEFORE* they hit MTV, then maybe you wouldn't NEED it serviced. Did you ever even attend a SINGLE Phish concert in college? No? That's what we thought. You have the nerve to think that Nickelback and Fallout Boy are cutting edge and then you think we're going to service your computer? Forget it. Apple just works man, it doesn't break. And, if it does break, you've got to to be all creative about it. Have you even TRIED healing crystals? Did you consult a Shaman? No? Sounds like YOU'RE the one who's broken, dude. Now call us back when you're actually worthy of owning an Apple--which will probably be never."

-Eric

Re:AppleCare is great...

[caldaan]

From http://www.apple.com/support/products/proplan.html

Convenient repair options

The AppleCare Protection Plan ensures that Apple-authorized technicians will perform repairs using genuine Apple parts(2). With this plan, parts and labor will be covered for three years from your computer's purchase date. The plan includes onsite service for desktop computers and global repair coverage, which can be very important if you travel abroad.

(1) Onsite service is not available in all locations.
(2) Repair service may include onsite, carry-in, and direct mail-in; specific availability of each option depends on product type and location of Apple Authorized Service Provider. Apple may also request that the customer replace components with readily installable parts.

Now they can't swap out LCD screens on site, they can't typically even do that in their shop. But pretty much anything related to the Computer they can do. The biggest problem would be if you live too far from a service provider that does on site repairs. And technically this isn't a "business" plan per se. If you bought one for your own personal use and get the Apple Care Protection Plan they are suppose to come out to your house and fix it.

Re:AppleCare is great...

[ktappe]

Wow, that sounds like a bunch of that stuffed-shirt/John Hodgeman/PC stuff. Surely a hipster like Apple would never lower themselves to such uncool depths as "assigning an account representative from Apple Corporate." They're more the free-wheeling, outside the box, creative types.

I know you were being funny, but fact is that we do have an assigned account representative at Apple Computer. I speak with him at least once per week. He gets us custom quotes and takes care of any issues we have (though he is not our first call if we need hardware service--we call AppleCare for that.) And yes, we do get on-site hardware service. I recommend the original poster call Apple Enterprise support at 866-752-7753 and see if they can help him out.

Re:AppleCare is great...

[gad_zuki!]

We have a couple of macs at work. One imac g5 died. This is how apple operates.

Call AppleCare. Long Wait. Do all the diagnostics I've already done. Support says its a bad mobo or ps. I ask to send it in, he stammers and tells me to call the local apple store for mail-in service.

I call the Apple Store. They tell me they can't accept anything mailed in or messengered over. They tell me to call applecare again and that applecare will take in mail-ins.

I call apple care again. Seriously long wait. I explain everything again. The guy puts me on hold for literally 15 minutes while he goes and finds out about "mailing in a computer." He then tells me that Apple no longer accepts desktops mailed in.

I call the Apple Store again. I finally get a manager. He tells me I have to get off my ass, leave work for god knows how long, lug this beast down michigan ave in chicago, and drop it off with one of his geniuses.

This is crap, by now Dell or whoever would already be repairing the machine I sent them with the standard warranty.

Apple is doing its best to piss off corprate customers and keep macs out of business. There's no microsoft conspiracy here, Apple is pretty competent at shooting itself in the foot.

Re:Macs for business use are still silly

[99BottlesOfBeerInMyF]

It's still a silly decision to try to use Macs for mission-critical business machines for just this reason. In my business, if I have a machine go down, I either run down to my local parts store to get the part I need, or I run down to the thrift store and pick up another used beige box for $50.

What is silly is trying to run a business that way. Every place I've ever worked (even on a shoestring budget start-up companies) has done the same thing while dealing with Dell and Apple and Lenovo and our other suppliers of workstations. You standardize on a few suppliers (where I work now we have Apple and Lenovo). You keep a couple of spare machines as backups for when one breaks and give it to the user so they have no down time and ship off the machine to be fixed. When it is fixed you test it then it becomes one of the spares. When we had consumer Dell machine we had to keep a significant number of spares (10-20%) because failures were so common. With both Lenovo and Apple we have more like 2% extra to serve as spares. Even a day of downtime for a professional is about the same as the cost of a laptop when you figure how many tasks suddenly were derailed and waiting for some IT guy to try to swap parts and get something working again is absurd compared to a ten minute restore from backup. The cost evaluation of doing business some other way seems really high compared to the cost of having a few spare machines on hand.

This is what true "lock-in" (hardware AND software) looks like in the IT industry, and it's not pretty.

In real business it is common to standardize on a few suppliers so "lock in" the way you describe it is standard operating procedure and results in fewer problems for IT and better prices. Its also a lot easier to buy 50 extra power supplies for each manufacturer and leave them in all the conference rooms, rather than try to manage them from a dozen different vendors.

AppleCare Support is NOT for business

[Dekortage]

I was previously the CTO of a small marketing agency in NYC. We were an all-Mac shop. When we had serious trouble, calling Apple was not helpful. We came to rely on local companies like TekServe for business-critical support (though it's not cheap). Consider this free advertising for them: they were great.

If you use Macs in business, I strongly advise you to find a local shop of Mac experts and rely on them.

Re:Apple's Are Flaky

[99BottlesOfBeerInMyF]

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data." Whatever your personal experiences, they are not really useful data for a person objectively trying to determine the reliability of systems. People here can trade anecdotes all day and tell you how two different Samsung laptops lit on fire killing family members or whatever. What is useful, however, is actually looking at the independent reviews by manufacturer and support/computer type and seeing how they actually do with large sample sets and documented methodologies. It is not like there is even a lot of debate among said studies. Apple and Lenovo (IBM is long gone neighbor) consistently rank at the top of the heap. Historically, Dell has been near or at the bottom, although they have improved a lot for laptops last year. One of your "best picks," HP has consistently ranked as the worst in the industry for many years running.

You might want to consider in future posting titles more like "My Apples are flakey." That at least is true. Objectively speaking all the evidence indicates Apple machines are among the least "flakey" in the industry and claiming otherwise is simply your own subjective opinion based upon not enough data to count.

I am an Apple certified hardware tech....

[Snowtide]

To quash any "Apple Fanboy" comments let me clarify. I work on both Macs and Windows machines, primarily Dells, I also have OSX client and server, 2003 Server, XP and Linux computers in my office at home.

I spent the summer I earned my hardware certifications working as a university Mac hardware tech in the same room as a university Windows hardware tech. The thing I noticed is Dell's corporate support is on average much better than Apple corporate support, especiallya bouts ending out techs to your location, and that Apple's personal computer support is much better on average than Dell's.

I watched the Window's hardware guy get his Dell hardware certifications to try and make his job dealing with Dell easier and still he got jacked around, lied to and screwed with. Make no mistake, this guy is a good hardware tech and has good people skills. But Dell's personal computer service support is just plain bad. On the other hand when I talk to Dell corporate support they are most often helpful and quick to send out parts. The Nebraska Federation for the Blind, as an example, figured this out long ago, let their members buy Dell computers through them so their members get corporate support.

With Apple they usually only send parts to Apple certified techs so most people have to take their Macs to a Mac certified tech. Then you are at the mercy of the quality of the tech, this usually good but can be bad unfortunately.

I think scale applies here, Dell sells a lot more computers than Apple, they can afford to set up techs employed directly by Dell to do service calls. Apple sells fewer computers so until the last few years most hardware repair guys who were Mac certified repaired Mac and other hardware as well in shops or as freelancers. That being said, it often comes down to the quality of the techs you are dealing with, no matter what company supports your computer. I make extra money by doing support/repair work for a variety of desktop hardware and much of my business comes from people frustrated with their current tech support. You have the right or people with the right, experience, knowledge and connections and you are in good shape. You don't and you can have problems. No mater what hardware you have.

Apple in the corporate environment? Heck yes, some of my customers, print shops, publication shops and engineering firms, are on majority or all Mac environments, but like any hardware you need to have look ahead and know what your support options are. One thing I do for my customers is document who to call to get real and useful help in case I can't be reached. Otherwise, Apple, Dell, Gateway whatever you can end up getting jerked around and really frustrated as you lose time and money. Knowing who to call in a company gets you those parts overnighted to your location and connected to a good tech. Yes, I am a Mac user. No I don't hate Bill Gates, he keeps me in business as a tech support guy. Vista? You see problems, I smell billable hours.

Re:Macs for business use are still silly

[iluvcapra]

Now, if you have some fancy design business, where deadlines are measured in weeks or months, as opposed to minutes as they are in retail, then sure, you can probably afford to ship off a box and wait for a few weeks until it gets fixed.

Sigh. My G5 under my desk has all of the sound effects for a certain arachnid-Stan Lee-related movie on it. If it dies and it can't get fixed, my dubbing stage will stop working within about an hour or two, and the dubbing stage is booked for around $1000/hour. "Fancy Design businesses" like advertising, commercial art and film production, have hideously short turnarounds and are ruinously expensive on a minutes and hours basis.

AppleCare ain't great, good for home, but bad for what I do professionally. So how do we do it? Our tech support people take Macs seriously, they have a small inventory of spares for when they need to send one back, and they know enough to fix small things themselves. I've never needed mine replaced for anything, FWIW. Any large organization could handle supporting Macs, having IT people who take them seriously and keep up to date on their issues is the real problem.

Oh and having a spare machines on site helps too ;)

Some suggestions for OS X in businesses

[singularity]

You might try contacting Apple Enterprise Sales at (877) 412-7753.

I would suggest any company looking into OS X solutions contact them. I believe they even have a separate support line you can reach.

In addition, as other have mentioned, look at Apple Authorized Service Providers who can provide more personalized service.

Also look at the Self-Servicing Account Program.

There are definitely resources out there for businesses to use. Going through the consumer support system obviously can be frustrating.

Apple Stores versus Resellers

[Gybrwe666]

As a disclaimer, I spent a large chunk of the 90's working for several large Apple Ressellers.

However, I think the basic problem here is one of approach, rather than Apple's response.

Let us put this in another way, altogether:

You run a small business, and you use HP/Compaq machines.

Who do you buy it from?

Most small businesses will probably go to either a large VAR (CDW, etc.) or find a local reseller of HP, who also provide support.

However, I suspect that it is safe to say that you probably aren't going to trundle down to Best Buy and purchase all of your hardware for you business from them.

When you purchase a computer (including support) from someone who understands the needs of the business community, your response to any problem will be significantly different than purchasing from a consumer-oriented store.

This is the same situation with Apple. Apple Stores (at least where I live) are in shopping malls. They are pandering to people who think that every computer should come with a free IPod, because that is their market.

However, again, at least where I live, there are at least two Apple resellers that specialize in business and know perfectly how to support a business customer.

At the time I was a tech, working for one of these companies, we supported every Fortune 1000 company in 40 miles who had a Mac in the office (which was most of them). When they called, we understood the difference between business support and everything else. When a marketing department for a Fortune 500 calls because their server died, it needs to be fixed now, not next week.

Not only that, but we were properly equipped and trained to support the business community. At the time I did this, I knew virtually everything there was to know about upgrades, patches, memory fixes, and hardware that Apple sold. Not only that, but I knew the same thing about every 3rd party product that my customers used. This included Quark, Adobe's full line, Macromedia, and hundreds of other programs, including business support software such as 3270 emulators and 3rd party software to connect Mac's (this was mid-90's) to Windows networks and servers, as well as mainframes.

The reality is that if you are purchasing your business hardware from a mall-store, you've made a serious error in the first place. Find a local reseller, preferably one who sells Mac's to businesses.

The other support issue is one of being able to determine software versus hardware errors. I can't tell you how many times some bizarre piece of shareware that some idiot long-haired birkenstock wearing graphic artist installed that caused problems with memory. A less savvy tech could very well have spent a day or two RMA'ing the memory to Apple, rather than knowing enough about the systems to properly diagnose.

In order to get business class support, you need to find a business class reseller. Relying on the home user support mechanisms won't buy you anything.

My advice: get out a phonebook and find a few Apple resellers nearby. Call them up and maybe meet with them. If you have a decent number of machines (which when I did this was usually about >2) and agree to buy through them, I'll bet money they will assist you with issues. The other place they will be able to assist is in working with Apple's AppleCare process. They do this every day. They know how to get through the system, and have done it countless times.

Bill

Consumer support vs Business Support

[maggard]

Not to play into the Mac baiting/idiolatry, but Apple does have some of the highest customer satisfaction numbers in the industry, year after year.

I'm sure there will be dozens of horror stories posted about here Macs & Apple, we can do the same for any brand. The truth is in numbers and again, Apple leads the industry in customer satisfaction and retention.

Your issue seems to be a mismatch between what you bought and the service you want.

You didn't buy a system with a business support contract. Apple does have those, but they're not in the Apple Stores. Instead like every other large vendor they have a division dedicated to business customers & their specific needs.

Instead you did the equivalent of going to BestBuy (albeit a much nicer looking one with staff far beyond any "Geek Squad" bufoonery) and are getting standard consumer service. Actually it's far better then you'd get from BestBuy et al, and if you sprang the extra $99 for AppleCare you'll get even better, but it's still walk-in service.

Your complaint really has nothing to do with Apple per se and instead with consumer customer service. Replace "Apple" with "HP" or "Gateway" and the store with "Best Buy", "CompUSA", "Microcenter", or whatever, and suddenly your complaint becomes much clearer

I'm sorry to hear you've had a bad experience with your Mac. I've friends who buy the kind of support you're looking for, where there is next-day service at their office for their Apple products. I've other friends who are certified in Mac repair, who give the kind of service you're looking for, show up, crack open your Mac, if they have the part handy replace it on the spot or if not retrieve it from a depot.

Instead you purchased we'll-look-at-it/fiddle-with-it/send-away-for-part s/send-the-machine-away-for-repair.