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Vonage Loses VoIP Case With Verizon
cdrudge writes "A federal jury on Thursday said Vonage Holdings Corp. violated 3 of 5 patents of Verizon Communications Inc. and ordered the upstart Internet-phone company to pay $58m in damages as well as 5.5% in royalty fees per month per customer. Verizon said it would seek an injunction to block Vonage from using its patented technology. The jury did reject Verizon's claim of $200m in damages and that Vonage deliberately violated Verizon's patents. As you might expect, Vonage said it would appeal the decision and seek a stay if an injunction is granted. Judge Claude Hilton set a hearing for March 23 on whether to grant an injunction."
Another win for the little guy! It's always nice when the system works.
I was actually thinking in the opposite direction - I might just get rid of my Verizon DSL to vote with my dollars. The cable company offers Cable/Internet/Phone for $99. I have Vonage currently, and I like it a lot. I hope this doesn't kill them off.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
Well, you see, this one group of rich guys tried to screw over this other group of rich guys, but the second group of rich guys was like, "Oh no you didn't!" and the first group was like "What're you gonna do about it!" and then the jury said "We find in favor of the rich guys!"
So you see, EVERYTHING is different now. Duh.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
Vonage has two plans, unlimited is $25 and 500 minutes is $14. The instant they introduced the 500 minute plan I switched down to it. This includes all of the services (voicemail in particular) that you pay through the nose for with a real phone company.
I cannot even conceive of using 500 minutes in a single month.
I read a few articles on that news this afternoon but they are mainly aimed at the financial aspect of the story. I'm still trying to find what exactly are those patents and what are the larger (if any) implications for VOIP in general. Open Source Software like Asterisk could eventually suffer if Verizon begins a patent war and Vonage was only this first victim.
Traditional carrier are having a hard time adjusting to new technology and they will try anything to keep their old ways to stay relevant. During the last few years this happened in many 'traditional' sectors, music and movies being two of them. In the long run, they will adjust or die but for now all of those dinosaurs are desperate to keep their heads above the water. The crippled patent system is their flotation device...
This quote is from CNN's article on the subject coming from a Verizon lawyer:
"Patents encourage and protect innovations that benefit consumers, create jobs, and keep the economy growing. Verizon's innovations are central to its strategy of building the best communications networks in the world,"
Enough said!
"The infringed patents cover a method for translating calls between an Internet network and the standard telephone network, call-waiting features and wireless fidelity, or Wi-Fi, handsets. Vonage was cleared of infringing two patents related to billing systems designed to prevent fraud."
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http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&s
"Patents encourage and protect innovations that benefit consumers, create jobs, and keep the economy growing," said John Thorne, Verizon deputy general counsel, in a statement. "Verizon's innovations are central to its strategy of building the best communications networks in the world."
.. um ... keep the economy going and create jobs? Why not just do the sensible thing [sadly in this case] and either buy out Vonage, or license the patents to them.
So they want to put Vonage out of business to
Though, the idea of "phone calls over the net" isn't exactly non-obvious or new. It would have been nice if the article could cite the patents they are violating....
Oh well..
Someday, I'll have a real sig.
Ideal:
Person A has a brilliant, rare idea. Person A invests years in refining and expanding said idea. Person A goes out and patents said idea. Person A opens a business with said idea, reaping customer praise and financial reward.
The patent has encouraged creativity and expanded the market.
Reality:
Person A has a somewhat obvious idea. Companys B, C, D, and E without investing in refining or developing the idea run out and patent said idea. Patent is granted to Company B (and sometimes C,D,and E too). Company B sits on patent, preventing anyone else from opening said business in order to protect the large profit margins on their current offering. 15 years later Company B sells the rights to said patent to Clearinghouse F. Clearinghouse F takes the broadest possible view of said patent, and sues everyone in the business. Years of fun in courthouse G ensues.
The patent has prevented the use of the idea or object patented, and has been used to bleed money from companies who do produce things.
The ______ Agenda
How is Vonage supposed to have any revenues if an injunction is imposed? I suppose they could write some new code that doesn't infringe on the patent, but how would Verizon have any claim to the revenues?
they have the worst customer support (Bob aka Habib in India),
Ah - you've never been a verizon customer then.
Constant overbilling, random shut offs of additional services, fees to reinstate the randomly shut off aditional services, $3000 cell phone bills because they accidentally deleted your voice plan from your cellphone account, $2000 data bills because they accidentally deleted the data plan from your blackberry.
Well, if you do it right, it's based on your neighbour's debt.
;-)
Works for me - haven't had to pay for bandwidth in over a year
I cannot even conceive of using 500 minutes in a single month.
/.er ;)
Spoken like a true
20 whole minutes on the phone per day? Unthinkable, why would the guy I order pizza from need to talk to me anywhere near that much?
And really, who else do we call?
>> I cannot even conceive of using 500 minutes in a single month.
Hmm, so you don't have teenage daughters, then?
(Sorry, this is Slashdot. Slashdotter's are not supposed to have girlfriends or wives, therefore children [at least living with them] are relatively unlikly. Silly me)
"Cats like plain crisps"
Like who? I pay about $30 a month for the unlimited service after taxes and charges and I get reliable service. How much more could I ask for? When I pick up the phone I want to hear a dial tone not "Your $6.95/month VOIP Provider is not available, try again later" when I'm going to make a call.
Wow. Someone equating patent infringment to the struggles of civil rights movement--only on Slashdot. Jury nullification is only applicable in criminal cases. Vonage was not charged with a crime; ergo there was nothing to nullify. You might want to read up on the term before using it again.
Entrepreneur : (noun), French for "unemployed"
Why is Vonage taking the flame for VOIP? Isn't there other buisnesses out there that allow people to use the public phone lines for comunication from computer to phone. I use skype which does not have a monthly payment(12 months for $24 for an phone number and voicemail)and 2 cents a minute for calls made in the US. Also, I do enjoy the video phone functionality of it.
Maybe some of these?
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
1) incoming calls don't come out the the 500 bucket.
2) calls to toll free numbers don't come out of the 500 bucket.
3) calls to Vonage customers don't come out of the 500 bucket.
It's harder to burn through 500 Vonage minutes than one would think.
This is essentially the end of VoIP if this decision holds. Basically, Verizon claims patents on connecting a VoIP line to a PSTN line and on common billing methods for phone service. Verizon was the first one they went after because they are the most high profile. Expect them to leverage this victory to take on anyone else offer VoIP to PSTN service.
With this decision, Verizon has just derailed the horde of VoIP startup/conversion trains rolling down the tracks into the future. I picture a caped, curly-mustached Verizon villain with a box and plunger detonating a high bridge made of glass fiber.
--
make install -not war
Look at these patents:
t ahtml%2Fsrchnum.htm&Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&r= 1&l=50&f=G&d=PALL&s1=6137869.PN.&OS=PN/6137869&RS= PN/6137869
t ahtml%2Fsrchnum.htm&Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&r= 1&l=50&f=G&d=PALL&s1=6104711.PN.&OS=PN/6104711&RS= PN/6104711
t ahtml%2Fsrchnum.htm&Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&r= 1&l=50&f=G&d=PALL&s1=6282574.PN.&OS=PN/6282574&RS= PN/6282574
t ahtml%2Fsrchnum.htm&Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&r= 1&l=50&f=G&d=PALL&s1=6298062.PN.&OS=PN/6298062&RS= PN/6298062
t ahtml%2Fsrchnum.htm&Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&r= 1&l=50&f=G&d=PALL&s1=6359880.PN.&OS=PN/6359880&RS= PN/6359880
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?u=%2Fne
So basically any VOIP system utilizing a database to authenticate callers and bill them for usage is infringement. Amazing.
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?u=%2Fne
VOIP DNS.
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?u=%2Fne
Same.
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?u=%2Fne
Voice mail / call waiting / call forwarding I assume. Now this is proprietary because it's been ported to VOIP systems?
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?u=%2Fne
This looks more applicable to wireless networks; I wonder how it applied in this case.
It clearly doesn't work for everyone.
But, why should you and your wife necessarily have the same number?
And you've presented an interesting opportunity for a new kind of device. It could be a home docking-station/wireless base for a cell phone. You plug it in and any incoming calls would automatically be handled through a cordless phone system. You can then put your cordless phones wherever you want them. Maybe it could take multiple phones and would use a different ring per phone. If it were really smart, it would allow the system to work with multiple phones at a time. So, your cellphone rings and you take it on the wireless extension in the bedroom. Your wife's phone rings too and she takes it on the living room's wireless extension. That was your daughter calling your wife, so when your call is done, you patch into her call so you can talk to your daughter too.
Does this thing already exist?
I'm paying a comparable amount through Vitelity and I've been quite happy with the service. $1.49/mo. for each DID, 1.39 cents/min/channel outbound, and 1.1 cents/min/channel inbound. It's very much an ala carte service - you can order as many DIDs as you want for a single account, and if you want CNAM lookups (caller ID), you pay for them on a per-use basis (something like 2 cents/lookup IIRC). Most importantly for me, they actively support and welcome customers running their own PBX boxes (Asterisk , etc.) and they will let you have as many simultaneously active calls as your bandwidth will support.
I've had no problems with the service, and they were very helpful in porting my previous Vonage number over. They do offer a few other plans, but the ala carte offering worked best for me.
Please stand clear of the doors, por favor mantenganse alejado de las puertas
The patents in question seem to have claim to have invented VOIP in 1999. However, the free world dialup project has been around since 1995. Also, back in 1998-1999 I remember Microsoft was offering free PC-Phone calls to the US using MSN Messenger. Their partner was charging for the same service. I think that would certainly qualify as prior art.
You are a poor uninformed soul just like those who think "Google isn't paying for anything". Of course they pay. The pay for the internet access to transfer their data, your VoIP data has to be carried to some system of theirs and then converted to a standard POTS signal (of course they somehow have to have a way of doing all that and I'm sure Verizon isn't going "HEY... We can give you local numbers for free!".
Everyone pays for everything, there is no free. When will you people quit saying that "it's free"?!
Vonage's businss model depends on Verizon, SBC and the other existing phone companies. It depends on utilization of their facilities without paying anything for the use.
I'm sure Vonage has bandwidth bills to pay. Every VOIP installation is sitting on some ISPs line (like Verizion, SBC and other existing phone companies) which said ISP is getting paid money for.
This is not very far from the net net neutrality debate. I pay Verizon cash money for a rated connection to the internet. Should they be allowed to tell me what kind of packets i can put on the line?
Vonage's businss model depends on Verizon, SBC and the other existing phone companies. It depends on utilization of their facilities without paying anything for the use.
I call bullshit.
Vonage doesn't pay for the line, the customer of both Vonage and the ISP pays for the line. If the ISP isn't getting what they think they should get for the traffic, they should jack the rate to their actual customer... the person with the DSL or Cable connection.
The user pays the ISP to get to Vonage, not the other way around.
The whores get mad when the sluts give it away for free.
Vodafone in germany and soon in new zealand, has a thing called at home. You just txt vodafone from your home area and it locates you.
For about NZ$30, you get free local calls in that 100 meter zone just like a ordinary landline.
- Kaos games and encryption systems developer
When I first signed up for Vonage I bought a $200 multi-cordless phone system (Current model is Uniden TRU9485-3) that is pretty nice, but at the same time I have saved about $1,400 since moving to Vonage.
Saying Java is nice because it works on all OS's is like saying that anal sex is nice because it works on all genders.