Alternative to Groove?

jpmahala asks: "We had been using Groove internally at our company for quite some time (before the Microsoft buyout), and were interested in adding more users to the program. However, after clicking on the link to the store on Groove's website, I find a message from Microsoft that the product is no longer being offered. Following the link provided by Microsoft, I find that it is bundled into the Office2007 product now and it does not seem to be offered as a standalone product. I'm sad to see that sort of thing happen, and I am unwilling to upgrade everyone to Office2007 just for the sake of Groove. Is there any viable alternative out there?"

Comments

Not a standalone product?

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft Office Groove 2007.

If you've got a volume licence deal with Microsoft you'd do better upgrading to 2007 though: you'll need the Enterprise edition to get Groove bundled. And it is a pretty nice upgrade.

Re:My boss told me to look into "Microsoft groove"

[baldass_newbie]

It's exactly like rsync...if rsync was bundled into a browser file-saving interface, chat and web portal tool.

In other words, if you want to keep your job, get that chip off your shoulder and start reading.

And to the original poster, there is NOTHING like this in the open source environment unless someone developed an OpenOffice plugin for creating dynamic drupal sites and sharing seamlessly with a Jabber client.

Groove 2007 is your upgrade path... sorta

[gregvr]

We are in a very similar sticky situation as the original poster. We have a LOT of Groove 3.1 licenses and we want to buy more, but can't.

Your upgrade path is Groove 2007-- as a previous poster noted, there is a stand-alone version.

A couple of HUGE BIG ENORMOUS caveats:

1. If you migrate your existing Groove account over to Groove 2007, it will completely disable your Groove 3.x account. You _CAN_ get it back by re-activating (like you did when you FIRST got Groove), but then that deactivates your Groove 2007!

There is ABSOLUTELY no way to have a single Groove account coexist in 3.x and 2007.

2. I am absolutely unsure about the way that Groove 2007 is licensed w.r.t. the way it was in Groove 3.x days. In 3.x, your license was for YOU-- you could install it on multiple machines, provided that they were all logged in as you. So, for example, my coworker would have Groove installed on his home machine and his work machine, and they were set up to share folders, etc. That was part of the point.

In Groove 2007, I believe that you have to buy a copy for each computer, and at $250 a pop, that's not cheap!

3. Groove 2007 DOES appear to be able to participate in Groove 3.x, unlike some other reports I've read. (it worked for me).

However, Groove 2007 is unable to CREATE a 3.x workspace, so your new Groove 2007 users will not be able to make workspaces that your Groove 3.x users can access. They would have to ask a 3.x user to create a workspace for them.

4. (this is the deal killer for us) Groove 2007 is completely unable to use TeamDirection Project-- the tool that was bundled with Groove 3.0 Professional.

This is a travesty. We have a LOT invested in TD Project. I'm sure a lot of people do. Microsoft can say all they want about how the upgrade path for that is Microsoft Project Server, but that's complete shit.

Oh, and btw-- yes, there is TeamDirection Project 2007 for Groove. HOWEVER, it is NOT implemented as a workspace tool-- it is a SEPARATE tool that cannot integrate in any way with Groove 3.x.

5. Lastly, note that the links are gone to install TD Project if you don't already have it. There's a way to do it, but it's a big pain in the ass. More shit.

I guess that's enough bitching for now.

I'm not sure what to tell you. We've essentially given up on the idea of Groove 2007. We will not be upgrading to it. We got a crazy "last time buy" of Groove, so we have a few more left, but we are looking for an alternative, too.

We MIGHT end up going with some sort of Sharepoint-based system, but I dunno.

I'm VERY interested to see other people's solutions.

Re:My boss told me to look into "Microsoft groove"

[baldass_newbie]

I guess the integration is worth something to unskilled users?

What do you think? MicroSoft isn't looking for /. people as Users, but as (potential) employees. Or not.
Unskilled users ARE their user base.
Apple is going after unskilled users with money or folks who don't want to hassle with drivers/software/etc.
Linux is great, but very specialized and lacks out-of-the-box integrated tools. Sure, you can write a script or pipe output, but that's besides the point. Most users (think Admin Assistants) want and need nice GUIs.

They're just making it easier for the knucle-dragging, mouth-breathers of the world.
And getting paid handsomely for it.

They suck

[MessageDrivenBean]

Plz also note the number of features *removed* from Groove 3.x! E.g., I heavily used the 'take Sharepoint sites offline' feature to take documentation with me while working offline but it has vanished from the product. http://blogs.msdn.com/marco/archive/2005/12/02/499 513.aspx will give you more information.

I personally contacted our Microsoft representative and explained him very carefully why I think he sucks/they suck. Taking over Groove and consequently destroying it while integrating it with Office 2007 made me switch to OpenOffice and Groove 3.x. I won't switch back.

Hopefully someone will release a Groove 3.x keygen within the next few days.

Re:Business case?

[westlake]

I'd be interested in hearing the "business case" for it. What does it do particularly well, and for what types of projects/needs has it been particularly successful?

Building an Emergency Operations Center on Groove and SharePoint

Groove {is} used by legions of organizations from GlaxoSmithKline to the U.S. Army. Being able to edit documents and then return them to a shared folder in one go is great. So is the fact that what you have on your computer is synchronized with other team members in real-time so, should your Internet connection be cut for whatever reason, the version will be updated when you come back online. And all this is done via encrypted files, making it very hard for an outsider to intercept and read them. Why Is the Internet So Unfriendly To Those Who Work in Teams?

Re:Business case?

[jeevesbond]

Glad you're contributing today. Perhaps you could, I don't know, Google for what it is.

I have no intention of getting into a flame war with you, just wanted to point out that Googling for Groove returns nothing but dross, from the Microsoft site:

Office Groove 2007 is a collaboration software program that helps teams work together dynamically and effectively, even if team members work for different organizations, work remotely, or work offline. Working in Groove workspaces saves time, increases productivity, and strengthens the quality of team deliverables. Office Groove 2007 is just one example of how the 2007 Microsoft Office system helps teams and organizations collaborate more effectively.

Ummmm, right.

I had the same problem when wanting to find out what Sharepoint actually does (eventually had to take the online test drive). Same problem with this product, why would we Google for the marketdroid speak when we have the near-unique opportunity of hearing it from the people who're using it?!

Honestly, brow-beating people for not searching on Google is not often helpful.

As someone who is currently looking into creating an ODF Document Portal I would be very interested in hearing about the features of Groove that real users find useful.

Re:My boss told me to look into "Microsoft groove"

[drooling-dog]

Linux is great, but very specialized and lacks out-of-the-box integrated tools. Sure, you can write a script or pipe output, but that's besides the point. Most users (think Admin Assistants) want and need nice GUIs. Lacks tools? One of the (many) reasons I switched to Linux is because I use a broad range of software and there's no way I could have afforded to duplicate under Windows what comes "out of the box" with any standard Linux distro. No crippleware, either.

And yes, you'll be surprised to learn that Linux has had pretty GUIs for quite some time now (as long as I can remember, anyway). I'd suggest that you update your FUD, but then it might lose its potency, no?

Re:My boss told me to "Think of the User"

[drooling-dog]

It's this fundamental disconnect between OSS and everyone else that keeps (and will contine to keep) OSS out of a lot of places. Really, as an extensive user of OSS software, I couldn't care less whether you use it or not. In fact, if we're ever in competition with each other, I'd even prefer that you didn't. While you're dealing with licensing hassles and BSA audits, we'll just keep chuggin' away.

Just look at the list of Ask Slashdot's asking for an OSS solution to proprietary and at best the alternatives are an ill-fit, or at worst there's none at all despite years of asking. Elitism is it's own worse enemy. Well, if you want free open-source software that is exactly like some commercial offering, you're being unrealistic. Ditto if you think that OSS means that a corps of dedicated software professionals is supposed to drop everything to focus on your specific needs. Microsoft doesn't do that, either: You eat what they put on your plate, and you do it in the way they proscribe.

Regarding "elitism" though, let's look at the situation here. I listen to people all the time who put up with no end of grief and hassle dealing with proprietary closed-source software, and I see them paying handsomely for the priviledge. When informed that excellent free alternatives exist, they think of every nutty reason you can imagine not to try them out, but what they all boil down to is a fear of having to learn something new (ah, but here comes Vista!). Rather than do that scary thing, they'll just keep dropping their pants and bending over for more of the same. They'll eagerly believe whatever absurd FUD is pitched to them because it justifies their otherwise irrational behavior. They are beyond help because they build and maintain their own cages.

So maybe what you see as elitism over here is really just some of us shaking our heads in dismay...

Re:Business case?

[Sharpner]

God, what a dickish response. What did I do to deserve that?

I know plenty about Ozzie, I know how to Google (you sanctimonious prick), I've sat through marketing presentations on Groove, I've read about it, I'm even about to load it on my machine in a few weeks. I've also just completed a day-long "product roadmap" (supposedly a 2- to 3-year forward view) with our Microsoft account reps and had to castigate them for not mentioning Groove once the entire day until I asked them about it.

I'm interested in perspectives from people who aren't going to give me marketing spin,are really familiar with the product, and have made it work and seen or proven to themselves the particular value of its particular uniqueness. That's the perspective that's going to tell me why it can't or can't be replaced by a SharePoint-based solution or any of the other options I've learned about or built over the course of a 30-year career. That's also the perspective that might help me explain to users why I think they should adopt a new tool that might fundamentally change the way they work.

You need to review the definition of "troll." The fact that you don't know what it means, apparently, doesn't say much for your credentials here. Asking questions aimed at offering constructive help does not make you one. Responding like a dickhead maybe does, though, no matter how low your ID is.

Collanos

[dago]

Yep - MS basically killed many of advantages of Groove.

Anyway, you may want to try Collanos. Maybe not an exact replacement, but still a nice P2P collaboration package.

+ it even runs on Linux ;)

Shameless self-promotion

[vesper76]

I'm one of the founders/developers of a product that's an alternative to Groove -- CipherShare. We're a very small company, but the product has been around for about 7 years now, and we have some pretty sizable customers (Bechtel, MDS Sciex).

We have: a very clear, simple interface; zero sensitive data exposure on server (we have a reseller who will host for you, if need be, and won't be able to see your data); support for very large files; secure chat; optional account/password recovery; file-type-agnostic document handling; auto-delta-versioning; etcetera. Check out the site and email us if you'd like a demo (we can host it for you, or you can host it yourself).

Oooh, Geek fight!

[LibertineR]

Wait a sec, I need popcorn!

I'm groovy and haven't found an alternative yet

[rock603]

I've been using it since version 1, and have been actively monitoring the web, Mac and Linux markets to see if anything else could be compared. For a while, the competition seemed to be SharePoint on the surface, which provides a way to share "workspaces" with documents, calendars, discussions, etc. in a portal. But this was limited to working inside a firewall, unless you wanted to set up a special configuration with external connectors and adding outside people to your internal directory system (a no-no in most IT shops I visit).

Currently, the biggest competitor (if you can call it that) is simply email, because of its ubiquity. Try to convince anyone to give up their email for a month and see what happens. Fortunately, I tested this scenario in Groove a few years ago, and it was a dream come true! No spam. No irrelevant messages (because it is intentionally challenging to use it as a simple email alternative). Just work. And only with people I chose to work with. It was rather Feng Shui. Everything was simple. All files were in one place. Nobody ever asks "did you get that file I sent?" or "where's the latest forecast?" - it's all just there on your system. Everything was secure. Peace of mind. Never had to set it up - it just worked on installation. But now that I'm in a different job and have to work with non-Groovy people, I'm stuck working in the archaic email days once again...:( To compare, it would like people who use email today starting to handwrite letters to each other...it's that bad!

Groove provides several key components that put it ahead of any web-only technologies. The following can also be used for a business case:

1. It's a rich client in a Web 2.0 world - which means you will see people running it on an airplane (also, incidentally, where you don't see any Web apps running)

2. It runs a distributed directory, so people can collaborate across organizational boundaries without requiring IT to modify directory systems (a challenge that has been vexing the industry for at least 15 years now)

3. It navigates across firewalls to create a "live" peer-based connection between Groove users - features are presence, awareness, instant messaging, and a whole raft of collaborative tools like file sharing, calendars, discussion threads, and customizable forms.

4. Security is built-in from the ground up - every user is authenticated, which has proven to effectively limit spam, viruses and other malware, and all work is protected with FIPS-approved 192bit AES encryption on disk and over the network.

5. Trust. Only the people designated to read information you choose to share will have the keys to unlock it. That means that an errant sys admin cannot view Groove workspaces or intercept data intended for another recipient.

6. Synchronization. This actually should have been first, since at the core, Groove is a great big XML message switch. Here's where you'll find the patents. Groove has a very robust synchronization engine that ensures that all documents, files, messages, changes to a workspace, etc. are synchronized with all members, whether they are online or offline. This is a hugely complicated endeavor that the Groove team has been working on since the Lotus Notes days - and they KNOW how to do it right.

Also note that it was developed by Ray Ozzie and his team of about 125 developers over 5 years and with over 5 million lines of code. It's more like an operating system on top of Windows, with identity, authentication, storage, synchronization, security, and communications all rolled up into one app. The original intent was to make it a development platform on which people could create their own collaborative applications, like the Team Direction project and Information Patterns' geo-mapping applications.

After the MS acquisition and the decision to add it to the Office Enterprise suite as a premium business offering (since business is the real focus of the application - cross-organization,

Alternative to Groove

[Franco Dal Molin]

Hi, I am the founder/CTO of Collanos, and we are offering something quite similar to Groove. We are a small start-up and don't have $150 Mio. to invest, but we do have talented developers and came already a long way. Our main differentiators are: - Multi-platform: Runs on Win, Mac, and Linux's - All P2P and built atop Sun's OSS JXTA.org libs - Object-oriented, not Tool-oriented, i.e. you can structure your workspaces and mix and match any object type (e.g. group discussions are objects, not a another tool tab) While we don't offer the functionality and richness of Groove (yet), we are going to ship a number of new releases in the next few weeks and months. We are following a community-oriented open approach and engage in co-innovation and discussions with our user base as much as possible. Please have a look at what we're doing and tell us what you like, what you don't, how you would spin things instead, etc. Thanks in advance! Franco