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Why Consumer Macs Are Enterprise-Worthy

cyberkahn tips us to an article in Computerworld that makes the case for Apple's consumer machines moving into corporations. (The article dismisses Linux desktops in the enterprise in a single bullet item.) With the press that Vista has been getting, is Apple moving into a perfect storm? Quoting: "There is no comparison between Apple's 'consumer' machines and the consumer lines of its competitors. All of Apple's machines are ready to move into the enterprise, depending on the job at hand. The company's simple and elegant product line, which is also highly customizable, will be Apple's entree to the business market — if IT decision-makers can get over their prejudice against equipment that's traditionally been aimed at consumers."

19 of 449 comments (clear)

  1. Who wrote this crap? by EvilGoodGuy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "(The article dismisses Linux desktops in the enterprise in a single bullet item.)" And how is this still considered a noteworthy article?

    1. Re:Who wrote this crap? by recoiledsnake · · Score: 5, Insightful

      (The article dismisses Linux desktops in the enterprise in a single bullet item.)" And how is this still considered a noteworthy article?

      It's been written by the same scum that brought you the incredibly retarded and contentless article featured on Slashdot on Virtualization sucks

      We find that most PCs that are sold as enterprise desktops are actually stripped-down, lightweight versions of the computers the same companies sell to home users. These machines lack the basic technologies needed in the modern enterprise. Apple, on the other hand, simply doesn't sell a minimalist computer whose predominant 'feature' is its price point, aimed at businesses or any other market
      Care to specify what the basic technologies are? Oh here they do.

      For instance, you can't buy a Mac without at least 512MB of RAM, Bluetooth, 802.11g Wi-Fi networking, Gigabit Ethernet, FireWire and even a remote control -- and that's before you consider the included software. None of the base business models of HP or Dell even comes close to that.
      Yes, the modern enterprise needs WiFi on fricking corporate desktops, FireWire, BlueTooth and remote control. And what if you want just 256MB RAM for the secretary who doesn't use anything but Outlook? Nope, you can't buy a Mac without at least 512MB of RAM! And, you get to pay for it!

      Apple's desktop lineup has three families: the minis, the iMacs and the Mac Pros. The mini is a full computer -- sans keyboard and mouse
      Uhh, it's either a full computer or not. A full computer without a keyboard and mouse is NOT a full computer.

      IMacs are Apple's middle-of-the-road desktop line, but a better-looking computer doesn't exist at any price. Complete with a built-in webcam for video chats and LCD screen, it comes in 17-, 20- and gorgeous 24-in. varieties.
      Wow, another basic feature without which the enterprise cannot function. The webcam!

      There is no comparison between Apple's "consumer" machines and the consumer lines of its competitors. All of Apple's machines are ready to move into the enterprise, depending on the job at hand.
      Yes there is no comparison, on one hand you have multiple vendors some of who will pre-install Linux, and almost infinite hardware configurability and on other hand you have limited configurations shoved down your throat whether you need them or not. Macs may be enterprise-worthy, but this article sure doesn't make a case for it. I recommend that Computer World articles be blacklisted.
      --
      This space for rent.
    2. Re:Who wrote this crap? by TheMeuge · · Score: 4, Interesting

      [quote]1) Linux is not a desktop OS (if it has changed in the last couple of years perhaps I should take a second look)[/quote]

      Really? Tell that to my parents. The learning curve was so "bad" that not only did they accept Linux nearly instantly, but it has now been almost a month, and I haven't heard a complaint, nor request for help.

    3. Re:Who wrote this crap? by be-fan · · Score: 4, Informative

      1) Apple also would have to be a team player. Where is AIX blended with OS X running on IBM servers to make things go fast forward?

      Blending things with AIX doesn't make much sense, given that Apple is now on x86 and AIX is for PowerPC. Moreover, why would you want to? If you need a serious, heavy-duty server, run AIX or Linux, OS X will inter-operate perfectly via standard UNIX technologies (NFS, LDAP, etc). If you need an easy-to-admin small server, run OS X server, and all your Linux and Windows clients will be able to use it just fine.

      2) Apple also would have to actively integrate other software. Actively, Apple will support Windows and Linux integration on Macintosh computers.

      It does. OS X uses standard UNIX tools extensively. Underneath the GUI, it's all GCC, Samba, NFS, Apache, CUPS, etc, etc.

      5) Standardized software interfaces. Why does Apple have to use their own disk format? Why does Apple have to do all kinds of things "their own way"?

      Apple supports the major standardized UNIX software interfaces. OS X 10.5 will be officially SUSv3 compliant (though at this point, trying to be Linux-compatible is probably more useful). It supports standard protocols like LDAP, NFS, SSH, etc. It does use its own disk format, but then again almost every OS uses its own disk format. Disk formats are not standardized, invariably poorly documented (or in the case of NTFS, undocumented), and usually very closely-tied to the kernel implementation. That's why Linux uses EXT3, AIX uses JFS2, Windows uses NTFS, BSD uses UFS, Solaris uses ZFS, etc.

      --
      A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
    4. Re:Who wrote this crap? by AdmiralWeirdbeard · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I've a couple of brief points of contention, tho i certainly agree with your opinion regarding the worthiness of TFA.

      1. RAM. How the fuck can you contend that 256 megs is sufficient for anyone? Do you use outlook? Its a hog. My work box has 512 megs and i use it solely for Outlook and internet, and i want more. Also, have you tried using Vista with only 256 megs? Hardly seems worth it.

      2. Definition of a full computer. The mini is a fully functional desktop computer. It happens not to be sold with keyboard, monitor, or mouse. This is problem for consumers, not for the enterprise, who's probably supplying everything to the users piecemeal anyways. I work at a large law firm, which is just a big corporate office, and I have never, *NEVER* seen anyone use a computer system that was purchased as a monitor, computer, keyboard, mouse bundle. The computers are all identical, Dell enterprise boxes, but everyone has a mishmash of Microfsoft ergonomic keyboards and optical mice, and mainly sony monitors. The mini is perfect for the corporate office box scenario where the computer should be quickly and easily swappable for repair and still run decent specs.

      3. Webcam. kinda silly. I'd never want to video-chat with the people whom i IM. But given the pervasive nature of the conference call in the enterprise environment, i fail to see how increasing webcam existence wouldnt benefit business. Face-to face conference calls? what's not to like?

      --
      Come read my stupid blagablog. Rants and Giggles
    5. Re:Who wrote this crap? by be-fan · · Score: 4, Interesting

      My question is why would anybody run MacOS X as a UNIX distribution when there are other UNIXes out there that are a lot cheaper to buy, such as BSD, Solaris, and Linux.

      That really wasn't the point of the original post. The original poster complained, in so many words, that OS X was isolationist and did everything its own way. That's wrong. Whenever possible, OS X does things how other modern *NIXs do things. Aside from Quartz, Cocoa, and Carbon, most everything in OS X is built off open technologies. OpenGL, LDAP, CUPS, NFS, SSH, etc are all part of the core platform.

      Not to mention that running UNIX programs in OS X is more trouble at first as OS X doesn't natively use X11 and it will include none of the standard Qt or GTK libraries, X11, or GCC in a standard installation.

      X11 and GCC are on every OS X installation CD. Yeah, it doesn't install them by default, but then again, Ubuntu doesn't install GCC by default either!

      I bet that any CIO worth their Mountain Dew ration will feel the same way.

      Again, we're not talking about buying OS X to get a UNIX, but buying OS X and getting a UNIX as part of the bargain. You don't need to have OS X to get a machine that uses UNIX standards, but if you do buy OS X machines, they can integrate into your environment much like any other UNIX.

      Oh, and Linux does not necessarily have its own disk format like Solaris, OS X, or Windows do. Linux will install on ext2, ext3, ReiserFS 3, XFS, and JFS.

      Of those, only XFS and JFS weren't especially designed for Linux. And it took several years to port XFS to Linux, reinforcing my point that filesystems are by and large closely tied to their host OS. Also, ext3 is the de-facto standard Linux filesystem. Every major distribution ships ext3 as the default, and its the first one to get improvements like the low-latency work and fine-grained locking.

      And to be fair, OS X installs on UFS just fine, though some apps don't like the case-sensitivity.

      And with the exception of ReiserFS and ext4, all of the Linux filesystems are fully read-write in at least one other OS. For example, Windows can read-write ext2 and ext3 via the IFS driver.

      And both Linux and Windows can read-write HFS+. However, Windows won't install on ext2 or UFS, Linux won't install on NTFS, UFS, or HFS+, so why is it a surprise that OS X won't install on NTFS or ext3? The original poster asked "why does OS X use its own disk format", and the answer is: "almost every OS uses its own, preferred disk format". There are exceptions, and Linux is particularly flexible in this regard, but even on Linux there is a de-facto standard that is the most well-supported.

      --
      A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
  2. A little off base by bconway · · Score: 4, Insightful

    if IT decision-makers can get over their prejudice against equipment that's traditionally been aimed at consumers.

    They really think that's what's holding back Macs in the enterprise? I'm pretty sure the problem isn't prejudice against hardware, but integration issues that arise when moving from an all-MS shop to a mixed environment with OS X. The ROI needs to outweigh the obstacles, and it currently doesn't.

    --
    Interested in open source engine management for your Subaru?
    1. Re:A little off base by weg · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Hmm.. I think it's actually the other way around: While the "all-MS shop" allows you to change the (hardware-)horse whenever you want, once you're using the "mixed environment OS X", you're bound to one supplier (Apple) once and forever. There's no way you can change that - if you find out that Apple's support isn't as good as you were expecting, you'll face the high cost of changing back your IT to the Windows world.

      If I had a business, I'd prefer to have options and I'd stick with Microsoft (while as a private user, I'm using a Mac and Linux).

      --
      Georg
  3. That's funny... by dreamchaser · · Score: 5, Informative

    I work in IT and do a fair it of consulting on COEs (Common Operating Environments)among other things. I see *far* more interest in Linux on the desktop than Mac OS among most of the enterprises who are entertaining anything different than Windows.

    This reads like a Mac fanboy wrote it. I can't think of any compelling reasons to recommend Macs in an enterprise environment. Properly implemented (that is with proper profiles and security), Windows 'Just Works' in business, and if one wants something different then there is Linux. The latter gives the benefit of being more customizable than either Windows or OS X in fact, given that all the source is available.

  4. Re:Enterprise-ready? Hardly. by jcr · · Score: 5, Informative

    You don't get 4-hour on-site service with Macs

    That kind of service is available if you want it, although not directly from Apple.

    -jcr

    --
    The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
  5. Disparity of Distros by ynososiduts · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I want to know what the big deal is between not using Linux because it has too many options. Majority of the distros are either based on Debian or Red Hat. I haven't seen software that only worked on one distro, and things like apt-get, yum, synaptic, and all the other package managers can be installed on most of the distros. That just doesn't seem like a valid reason to automatically dismiss any Linux solution. Just use one distro throughout the whole comapny, problem solved.

    --
    622677120
  6. This will never work by st3v · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Macs are not enterprise ready. The computers, save for the Mac Pro's, are not easily serviceable by IT departments, unlike, say, Thinkpads. Ever try changing a hard drive of a Macbook Pro? You don't wanna get stuck doing that. Also, Exchange dominates the corporation fields. Mac OS X has a long way to go in the aspects of group policy, and other details that Windows offers that admins need. Sure, you might be able to make hacks in the OS to make things work the way you want it, but Linux is a better option if you want a UNIX-like OS.

  7. This surfaces every now and then... by crovira · · Score: 4, Insightful

    And its utter bullshit.

    I suspect that Apple definitely does NOT want to enter a cut throat world of competition where it becomes just an also ran competing on price with a thousand corporate buyers, when it can design kick-ass product in the consumer market place.

    This was written by a misguided (and severely deluded,) fan-boy.

    The PC wars are long over. Get over it. Microsoft won. (So they're now tied to the office and that kind of ugly industrial design. [Think BROWN Zune. Yuck!])

    Apple is a whole lot better positioned to compete in the vastly more profitable consumer arena.

    --
    MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
  8. Ever had 250+ consumer macs in the enterprise? by dasOp · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Well I do. And the rate of failure is just terrible. Without exact numbers at hand, I can definitely say we've sent over 30 iBooks to the local Apple service partner.
    Being an enterprise customer you definitely dont have to wait in line for consumer service, we just send the computers directly for service. Otoh, you definitely won't get 4hr onsite like all the major pc vendors offer.

    As for group policy and manageability, Apple got in the game late and will definitely catch up. The question is when (and what decade).

  9. Re:But where's the MacBook Pro docking station? by dal20402 · · Score: 4, Informative

    Remember, Apple is an idealistic company, and likes to push its idea of future tech...

    Instead of a docking station, Apple would suggest that you use

    • a Bluetooth keybard and mouse
    • a wireless network connection
    • network-attached printers and mass storage at the other end of that wireless connection

    This leaves you with only a power cable and a DVI cable to hook up. When the laptop has ports on both sides (with the power and DVI on opposite sides), so you have to hook up two docks, docks won't save you any effort at all.

    I know this won't work for everyone, but it's perfectly representative of how Apple tends to think.

    Even if you can't use any of the wireless stuff, you still only have power, DVI, USB, and Ethernet to hook up. (Your monitor probably has a USB hub that you can use to hook up your KB, mouse, printer, mass storage, audio interface, etc., etc.) That's a long way from the old days when you might have had separate connections for your KB/mouse, monitor, printer, external hard drive, network, audio, and power.

  10. from my experience by t35t0r · · Score: 4, Interesting

    They are not. just from trying to get them configured for the uni ldap, autofs, nis, it's a pita. We have to manually make changes in the nfs script because it makes 1000's of symlinks in 2 different directories. Many of the settings that can be modified with nss_ldap don't even exist on osx, for example loginshell overrides. There's no newgrp, we have to roll our own. It's going to be real fun transferring all our users from nis to open directory (slapd) when we start configuring that. Will padl's migrationtools work, I doubt it.

    OSX server comes with apache 1.3 ..wtf? we had to use fink and install 2.0.something (the apache2 monolithic build provided by serverlogistics.com has cgi bugs). The configuration files are all over the place /etc/hostconfig, /Library, /System/Library, netinfo gui while on more posix systems it's just /etc . The perl that also comes with osx is buggy (try installing Net::LDAP and all its prereqs using perl -MCPAN -e shell).

    How do I login to an xserve with ssh -C -Y or ssh -X and run gvim or an xterm or any X app, can't have to use vnc. Then there's HFS which we have to use to support all those nasty meta files. I guess Xsan will be nice when we use it but that's after we get all the data off our huge raid array just for a couple of mac clients.

    We haven't even started migrating postgres, mailman, request tracker, and sendmail yet. If it's anything like the way it has been already we're probably going to have to use fink again.

    And no I don't want quicktime on my headless Xserve, thinking differently is difficulty.

    1. Re:from my experience by Frumious+Wombat · · Score: 4, Insightful

      For security reasons, you should have abandoned NIS long ago, and OpenDirectory works just beautifully with OSX, Linux, and Windows clients. Turn on the ssh daemon, and your ssh -X, etc work just fine, and Macs understand NFS, as well as other file systems just fine. In other words, there is no reason to do anything to your RAID array other than tell the Macs where it is and what protocol to use to connect to it. There are also tools, of course, to enable you to make standardized disk images with configurable parameters and use those for future client installs.

      I'm running my entire lab off OS-X, with a compute cluster and file system integrated into distributed desktops (OSX and Linux. We had a windows but I sensibly turned it off when we bought the first IntelMac), and not so much as a hiccup. The main problems you're describing are the classic, "it looks unixy, so I'm going to treat it as if it were a Linux box." No, it's a Mac, descended from NeXTs. Get the Apple docs out (dreadful though they may be), read a little of "The Mac Way", and quit fighting it. I found most of my problems at first arose from trying to treat Macs as if they were just nice-looking RedHat boxes, rather than something different.

      Pardon for sounding rude, but it sounds like you've learned one system, and aren't willing to attempt to learn another. Current Macs are one of the easiest machine to integrate into a mixed environment that I've encountered, and this is after over a decade and a half of running various Unices, Linuces, Windows, and VMS systems in mixed environments.

      --
      the more accurate the calculations became, the more the concepts tended to vanish into thin air. R. S. Mulliken
  11. Re:So the hardware is up to par... by dal20402 · · Score: 4, Informative

    Do we really have to have one of these trolls in every Mac-related discussion?

    For the last time (until next time...)
    1. Macs are NOT significantly more expensive than comparably equipped commodity machines, for the most part.
    1a. On the high end, they tend to be *cheaper* than comparable commodity machines (esp. Mac Pro).
    2. However, Apple does not sell barebones configurations; that is not its business.
    3. Therefore, *base* prices of Macs tend to be higher.

    Anyone who says Apple hardware is 2x as expensive is comparing a barebones PC to a fully loaded Mac (and there really isn't any other kind).

    Of course, businesses may want those cheap barebones PCs, but if they do, they are not businesses who would ever buy Apple, even if Apple had flawless enterprise-level support. Apple is a maker of highly capable multimedia PCs with lots of easily configurable connectivity options. That, not barebones commodity hardware, is its business.

  12. even if... by oohshiny · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Even if we assume, just for the sake of argument, that OS X is "enterprise ready", the fact that Apple hardware comes from a single company makes Macintosh an unacceptable choice. The fact that that company also has a very limited product range makes it even less feasible.