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Palm Responds to the iPhone

Several people noted a NYT piece about Palm's response to the iPhone. Essentially, their response appears to be to hire a former Apple engineer and a couple other folks -- while also pursuing plans to perhaps sell the company. Nothing like a dual approach to the problem.

15 of 205 comments (clear)

  1. Re:allinone by bostonkarl · · Score: 3, Interesting

    All in ones exist today. Palm has seen it come and done nothing.

    Apple is attempting to make a sexy all in one taht doesn't rely on windoze mobile and market the hell out of it. Palm has done nothing.

  2. Re:allinone by thammoud · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Someone needs to come up with a serious contender to iTunes. Until that happens, no one will touch Apple in the new 'convergence' world.

  3. Destiny by 26199 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Somehow I get the impression that the iPhone's future... destiny, if you will... is already determined, and anything Apple's competitors might do at this point is more or less irrelevant. Nothing is going to steal the iPhone's thunder if it turns out there actually is a market for it. And if there isn't... it'll sink without a trace, as will any rivals.

    As cool as I think the iPhone is, I'm currently leaning toward the second option. Too expensive, too little demand.

    1. Re:Destiny by Apple+Acolyte · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I don't disagree with much of your post, but when you say you're not interested in the iPhone because it's too costly and has too little demand, I have to ask what you're basing that opinion on. I'm betting demand will healthy - the iPhone will be a major status symbol. And as far as price, people often point out how expensive the iPod was when it debuted. Most claimed it would fail due to price, but few if any are saying that about the iPhone. I bet within a couple of years you'll be counted among iPhone owners.

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    2. Re:Destiny by kisielk · · Score: 3, Funny

      Hari Seldon, is that you?

  4. why competition is good by UnknowingFool · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Whether you like or dislike Apple or their products, Apple is a catalyst for change. Personally I applaud Apple's entry as it may encourage all phone makers to reevaluate their UI. The UI on my phone sucks but they all equally suck.

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  5. Re:allinone by tomstdenis · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The problem with all in ones is they implement each feature shoddly or make ridiculous compromises.

    Camera? Sure 0.3MP. Memory? Sure 1MB. etc...

    Sure some phones now come with mini-sd slots and what not. But still, if I want a camera my 5MP Canon will do much better. If I want an MP3 player my iPod will do much better. If I want a processor in a box, my laptop will do much better. There is a difference between "doing a lot of things" and "doing a lot of things well."

    Combine that with lack of choice [in most markets] and people are easy prey for the doo-dahs and whatnots.

    For me, when I bought a phone I looked at some key factors.

    1. quadband so I can use it anywhere
    2. relatively small
    3. decent standby life

    Anything else is frivolous and hardly gets used.

    Unless you see phones with a 4MP camera, 128MB of ram, 500 MHz ARM, etc... it's hard to say they're really "replacing" anything.

    Tom

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  6. Ex-Apple? by dr.badass · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Palm seems to be very proud of the fact that they hired an ex-Apple engineer, which seems rather silly considering that Apple has thousands of them. It gets better when you consider that ex-Apple in this case means that he last worked for the company about ten years ago. No story here, unless the subtext is that Palm OS is going to start looking like System 7

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  7. Re:allinone by Paulrothrock · · Score: 4, Insightful

    All in ones are not the future. All in ones are good for a few things. Playing music, showing photos, making phone calls. Would you want to do photo editing or management on an iPhone? Would you want to do video editing or web browsing or email only on an iPhone? Of course not. You want a nice big screen and a real keyboard and mouse to do those things.

    What Apple gets, and what I think is the future, is making all of these things work together. The iPhone syncs to your desktop at home. The Apple TV gets its content from your desktop at home. It's not about replacing your computer, it's about extending it.

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  8. Re:allinone by denis-The-menace · · Score: 3, Informative

    I'd be happy with phone that just has a decent 2MP camera with image stabiliser, an MP3 player with buttons outside the phone and most importantly a USB connection to load/unload pictures and music. As simple as it seems, you can find this yet.
    Portable combo gadgets like this will not replace dedicated devices for another 10-15 years. The reason: too much greed in the business. When IP phones start to give Cell phones companies a run for their money, you start seeing decent All-in-one phones.

    Heck, All-in-one Printers are just now starting to be on-par with their dedicated brethren.

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  9. Re:allinone by tomstdenis · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Good points. Should point out that many phones TODAY are capable of sharing files via bluetooth/usb. It's mostly the telco's that lock the phones down so you have to use airtime to transmit files (or worse, only buy content from their services).

    So you'd need to see BOTH the telco's and hardware designers lose their greed.

    Tom

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  10. One Hand Clapping by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Palm is dead. Over 2 years ago Palm sold its OS to the Japanese "Access" corp that makes so many Japanese phones and their most popular web browser. So Access could finish their long heralded "Cobalt" OS, and switch to a new OS which was Linux, under Cobalt (retained as just GUI and compatibility layer). They were supposed to release Linux (+ Cobalt GUI) phones last Fall, before anyone had heard about the (real) iPhone.

    But they didn't. Just as Palm let the Blackberry come from behind and eat the market Palm created, Access has let PalmOS keep it from even reaching the market before Apple is eating it, without even a released product.

    It's all too bad. The PalmOS approach, focused simplicity on tasks, designed as a tough peripheral, with the most natural interface, writing on the screen, was the right paradigm. Handled properly, it should have forced all computing, whether workstation, mobile, phone or mediaplayer, to "just work", adopting many of its friendliest innovations. Now that job, as usual, is up to Apple.

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  11. How wise is industry wisdom? by hey! · · Score: 5, Interesting
    From TFA:

    The company's own Palm OS software is widely seen within the industry as aging and in need of a fundamental revision.


    I went into a big box computer store recently, to buy a cable for a PDA I'm developing for. I was shocked; a few months earlier thre had been about twenty feet of counter space devoted to PDAs. Now there was zero -- just two shelves under the counter, maybe two feet wide, half for Palm, half for HP iPaqs. In its place was now twice the retailspace, devoted to iPod accessories.

    While the industry had been busy competing to offer "updated" PDAs, Apple has kicked the entire lot into retail obscurity. They can't even, as entire industry, hold their own against fashion cases for the iPod Nano. Apple is a company that has carved out a niche by not only ignoring, but flagrantly defying industry "wisdom", which comes from a group of people far too focused on what each other is doing.

    The problem, I think, is this: when the innovations are pursued on the basis of their low marginal costs, they tend to end up having marginal value too. Palm hit the innovation ball out of the park with their first generation PDAs. They scored a series of base hits with their upgrades through the Tungsten series. Palm has the customers and retail channel (for now); the sentiments quoted above say that they should use them to innovate within the bounds of the PDA or smart phone paradigm. But we have reached the point where the value of the next "PDA innovation" is not enough to get you on base -- not in a game where a base hit consists of a $200 retail purchase by a consumer.

    The true destiny of the PDA is not to accrete laptop like capabilities. It is to become a cheap commodity. The world needs a Palm m505 for $19.99; not a Life Drive (just discontinued last month) for $399. That is the true meaning of convergence: PDAs have become marginal appendages to phones; their job is to sell phones.

    The idea that PalmOS should become more like PocketPC and accrete new features only makes the situation worse. As the sales of PDAs plummet, both Palm and PocketPC will suffer, but PocketPC is destined to drop even faster.

    The problem for a company like Palm is not that money cannot be made with a product whose fundametal retail value is destined to plummet. The problem is that money cannot be made with a conventional tech company culture, which is biased towards on stuffing as much features and functionality into a product as will fit. The best thing would be for Apple to buy a nearly moribund Palm for a song.

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  12. Re:allinone by Jonny_eh · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Why can't you just plug your monitor and keyboard into your all-in-one?

    Think outside the box! The zeitgeist is shifting to a new paradigm!

  13. Re:Agreed by juniorbird · · Score: 3, Informative
    Palm's ability to offer the Treo on multiple carriers is certainly a big advantage, but there is precedent for offering a high-end converged device on just one carrier -- T-Mobile's Sidekick. How did that do? Let's see, it became an iconic product that every famous person had to have. Last year, T-Mobile moved about a million of those. Apple apparently thinks it'll sell 5 million iPhones. Is that possible? That basically depends on a few questions:

    • Will, as you ask, people switch to Cingular? Well, with number portability one issue goes away. Another potential issue is that Sprint is a much bigger business carrier than is Cingular -- some business users will only have Sprint phones as an option. But we do see that most carriers have about 2% churn annually, and Cingular did gain 2.4mm new subscribers in just 4Q '06, so there's precedent for an inflow of customers
    • Is the price too high? I think it seems high, but the bigger iPods sell reasonably well too, and they're pretty pricey. There are also a lot of smartphones in the $399-$699 range without rebate, and most of these started out with pretty small rebates and long contracts. The iPhone is selling through the same, proven channel with the same, proven incentives.
    • Is the iPhone a toy? This is related to the question "will not being available on Sprint and Verizon doom the product with businesspeople?" All of the things the iPhone does are things that people pay RIM and Palm big money to do right now. If the iPhone can do them better -- and assuming they need to be done better -- then it's not a toy, it's a productivity tool, and how many executives are going to accept their IT guy's objection that "we don't have an account with Cingular"? Oh, and because it looks sexy, the iPhone is also a toy, and can compete in the toy market with the Sidekick. How big is that market? 1.1 million units last year. The Blackberry Pearl sold a bunch of units at the end of the year too -- maybe 500,000? That's a good sized market, and a very fashion-conscious one, that should be very receptive to the iPhone.
    • Is the iPhone really just "about as good as" other smartphones? That's the big question. Apple's history in designing similar devices suggests that the iPhone should be substantially better, but, if it's not, then it's true that success outside a small niche is going to be impossible. Apple's banking a lot on its ability to design a better interface, we'll have to see how the iPhone holds up over time.



    • Add it all up, and I think you get about 3mm shipments in the iPhone's first year on the market -- a lot less than 5, but a start.