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Dell Opens a Poll On Linux Options
narramissic writes "In response to overwhelming user demand for Linux, Dell has posted a survey on a company blog that asks 'PC users to choose between Linux flavors such as Fedora and Ubuntu, and to pick more general choices such as notebooks versus desktops, high-end models versus value models and telephone-based support versus community-based support.' Votes will be collected through March 23, and Dell plans to use the feedback to begin selling Linux-based consumer PCs." The poll is pretty minimal. Wonder how much it will really guide Dell's choices.
No comments and the poll is already down.
Maybe that'll help guide Dell's opinion of whether people want Linux on their PCs.
Registering accounts later than some other chrisb since 1997
In response to overwhelming user demand for Linux
I do not think that word means what you think it means.
Download my free songs!
"Dude! You Slashdotted Dell!"
I love Linux and all, but what kind of support would be offered compared to Windows support? I have no experience with Windows support (don't use it), but when I call my ISP and other companies, they ask questions like "What version of Windows are you using?" By being a Linux and Mac guy, I find myself self supported much of the time, which is OK most of the time, but when the internet is down or something that is not OS dependant, I have issues from time to time, and its next to impossible to talk with support people sometimes.
Now, I'm not talking about me. I've run Linux on a number of Dells (hundreds), but I don't need Linux support, but for "normal" people or whatever, what kind of support will they get?
You realize they can't support other distributions right?
They can't even ensure that they'll work properly.
Fully testing a distribution on a given piece of hardware probably takes a man-month.
Trying to fix issues that don't work increases that time line.
The best they could do is set up a standard test- run it against a given distribution and give it a percentage pass rating.
Would you seriously pay them $890 for a laptop with a version of linux that passes 97% of tests and they'll show you a list of the 3% of the tests that fail so you can decide if you want to figure out and fix them or not on your own. Myself- I want everything to just work. And that means they can really only use a couple standard flavors.
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
I personally do not want any flavor pre-installed. FreeDos is fine thank you. There are just too many options and partitioning preferences that I would typically reinstall anyways.
I can install Redhat via a USB drive in 10 minutes so the advantages of pre-installation are minimal.
What I really care about is not paying the Microsoft tax!
The problem is that it's impractical for Dell, or any other company, to support every distribution and version of GNU/Linux that's out there. It's also impractical for them to test every hardware configuration with all of those distributions. They've got to pick one. Or two. Or five. Or whatever practical number their support people can handle. (Which I'm guess will end up being one or two at the most.)
Personally, I think they should go with Ubuntu, as it is extremely popular and arguably the most user-friendly distribution. If you want a different distribution, you're free to install it, and it will probably work since you know that the Ubuntu drivers will work on their hardware. But if you get a Dell with Linux, along with their support and guarantee that it will work on their hardware, you'll have to go with the distribution they've actually tested and that they support.
This is really part of the problem. It costs Dell a ton of money to install a different default OS, or at least they claim that it does, and I've no basis to argue with them, so as a community, we need to be able to be satisfied with one distribution.
One of the reasons that Dell et al have always used as an argument against installing Linux by default, is that Linux users are too hard to please, and the market is too balkanized. With Windows, you have (well, you did, pre-Vista) Home, and Professional, and you can charge extra for installing Professional. With Linux, you have Ubuntu, Novell, Fedora, and god knows what else, and you really can't charge extra for installing one or the other without alienating users.
I think they need to pick ONE easy-to-use "beginners Linux" distribution, like Ubuntu or Lindows, and then offer a 'bare drive' option for users who want something else. Let's face it; if you are enough of a Linux user to have developed a preference between distributions, you can install the damn thing from an ISO. As long as the hardware is compatible and has Linux drivers available, you ought to be able to put anything you want on there.
The argument for pre-installations is really about novice users who can't be bothered to install an OS onto a fresh machine, and just want something that's going to work with minimal fuss. They need a distribution that's as idiot-proof and "polished" as possible, and that's what the criteria for choosing it should be.
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
By offering NONE ... pre-installed ... but offering options on boxes so that they include only 100% Linux-friendly hardware. Which would be tested against the current kernel (and the kernel tested with would be documented).
AND NOT COSTING MORE THAN AN EQUIVALENT WINDOWS BOX.
Box A
Windows config - $500
Linux config -
- remove modem (save $5)
- replace modem w/Linux compatible (kernel 2.6.18) (add $15)
- remove wireless card (save $10)
- replace wireless card w/Linux compatible (kernel 2.6.20) (add $25)
And so on. Support "Linux", not "Red Hat". Ship the hardware and let the buyer get support from the distribution s/he prefers.
lols! Dell runs Microsoft IIS on their webservers!
My vote: not that much.
As opposed to them selling me a Windows Laptop that I can then load Linux onto and GUESS at what works and what doesn't? The scenario that you propose is vastly better then today!
My workplace already gets Precision workstations from Dell with RHEL on them. Although to be honest we swapped vendors for the last round because quad Opterons were the better choice at the time. RHEL isn't a particularly good desktop OS for my needs (low popularity, license/reinstall headache) but Ubuntu works well enough on the same hardware.
What Dell really lacks is laptops with obvious Linux support. It's still a pain in the ass to look through their website and pick up a laptop that you know has working 3D drivers (ATI blows), wireless, and hibernation support. You can go look around for third party reviews and match model numbers but that leaves you looking off site (and evaluating against competitors) and Dell has a huge turnover in model revisions.
No, as opposed to you buying a Linux laptop from a company that sells Linux laptops. I don't see what everybody's obsession is with wanting to buy a Dell. Is it a status symbol to have a computer box that says "Dell" on it?
I don't respond to AC's.
What about Emacs?
http://saveie6.com/
How are you leave off Debian GNU/Linux from the distribution list. Are you people just a bunch of idiots or what? It's obvious you Dellosers don't even know the history of GNU/Linux because Debian was the FIRST GNU/Linux distribution and continues to be the best GNU/Linux distribution. You'd have to be a complete moron to make a list of GNU/Linux distributions and leave off Debian GNU/Linux. It's obvious that Dell has no interest in supporting REAL free software, only a bunch of fake anti-freedom distros like Red Hat "Linux" (sic).
Dell you can go to hell, I am never going to buy your products again!!!
It's because once Dell starts offering linux, then the DRIVERS for all the various hardware and games, etc, will follow and *everyone* who runs linux in general will benefit. Dell and HP are the big kahunas with desktops, the entire industry will sit up and take notice that "Linux has arrived" once their linux offerings are common place. The peripheral industry is not impressed enough with the small tier 3 linux -capable computer vendors right now, a lot of them just totally ignore linux or offer some token crappy drivers, etc., but with Dell they will have to take notice and do something about it.
What's going to happen when Dell releases a flavor that can't play MP3s, or some media files, out of the box? I wonder if the idea of it being Linux is going to be...for lack of a better way of putting it...scary enough to the average user to dissuade them from selecting it as an option even if it saves 'em money.
"It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education." -Albert Einstein
I don't think it's THAT important that they have any paticular distro. As long as they have hardware that is certified to run with open-source drivers or fully capable vendor closed-source drivers (like the current nVidia driver), I don't care what distro they put on it. Put SuSe on it, and I'll reformat the drive and put Fedora or Ubuntu on it like I would now with Windows. The major difference will be my confidence that it will work with Linux.
The biggest problem we have now is that you never know if all the hardware in a machine will work with Linux, the distro is pretty much irrelevant until you start using it. My notebook is from HP (dv8000t), and it works great with any distro I've put on it, since 2.6.14. I bought it without knowing this. When I was making my purchase, if there had been a manufacturer that put out a machine in the same price range with a simalar screen size and was certified for Linux, they would have gotten my money instead.
Keep in mind that this experience is only regarding notebooks, I've never purchased a brand-name desktop.
"He may be mad, but there's method in his madness. [...] It's what drives men mad, being methodical." G.K.Chesterton
As a Linux user, there's really only two things I would like to see from Dell (or any PC manufacturer). One is the option of buying a computer with either a free OS or no OS (some more casual users (the type that Linux needs to be attracting if it wants to grow its user base) might prefer their favorite distro pre-installed, but I'm more likely to want to set everything up myself). Second, I want to know if the hardware will work well with open source drivers.
The first is tricky for PC manufacturers from a political standpoint; they don't want to offend Microsoft. (I am curious if anyone has a good answer to this: supposing Microsoft were to raise their per-OS lisencing fees as retaliation against a PC manufacturer for selling a non-Microsoft OS, would they get sued for anticompetitive practices, or would they get away with it? Could they retaliate in other, more subtle ways?)
The second is also tricky because many of the better graphics cards don't have open source drivers. (At least, not drivers that support 3d accelleration, which is usually why people buy high-end graphics cards in the first place.) If Dell were to say "sure, we support Linux, just use the binary-only Nvidia driver", that approach isn't going to make a lot of Linux users happy.
Pretty much the same way they provide "support" for Windows.
Take your installer disk and re-install the system and it will be back to the same way you received it. Too bad about your data.
Come on. The distributions can do better than that without even trying. Dell doesn't provide any support beyond returning your system to the configuration you received.
As for upgrading your kernel and breaking things
Almost every Linux distribution out there has a package management system that means that the problems Windows users have will be non-existent on Linux.
You've claimed to use Debian and Ubuntu. How easy is it to remove an application? That's how easy tech support is for Linux. On known hardware.
My guess is, Dell is doing this to push/force Microsoft into according it better pricing bonuses. The half-hearted way they are doing this just smells too fishy for me. Customers have requested No-OS computers for years and Dell has always ignored them.
Here's a summary of the computers they list:
Inspiron
consumer laptop
Dimension
consumer desktop
XPS
high-end consumer systems. Also good systems for serious artists.
support is thin
Latitude business notebooks
just what the name says
OptiPlex business desktops
just what the name says
The survey falls under the Dell small business marketing category
Their servers are already available with Windows, RHEL, SUSE, or without an OS at all.
Who doesn't like free music?
Hard to take seriously a poll from a company that cannot even implement the submit button correctly on their poll page, using proper HTML, and without the ultimate stupidity of making their submit button tied to Javascript.
They already have an OS for people who don't know what they're doing. They call it Windows.
Please do not mention food this near to dinner time, all this talk of:
Doritos,
Cheese,
Popcorn,
Dip,
Corn Chips,
Stuff, and
Apples
Is making me really hungry.
Not to mention that a car analogy is probably more effective - leather package, aftermarkets, etc.
Proof by very large bribes. QED.
But it helps solve the chicken-before-the-egg issues that linux tends to run into. Big manufacturer starts supporting linux, starts using hardware that works in linux (even if it's a particular version of linux). Hardware vendors start getting orders for linux-compatible hardware. Other venders start supporting linux more in their hardware. More drivers, more compatible hardware, and the situation improves overall as the visibility and marketability of the OS increases.
Is it just me, or doesn't anyone else thing that MS must be rather worried about the fact that a large manufacturer is looking hard at selling a non-MS operating system?
I just bought a notebook, so I'm not in the market, but if Dell had had a performance notebook that shipped with Linux when I was shopping, I'd have bought it. Does that mean my vote doesn't count?
My blog. Good stuff (when I remember to update it). Read it.
i think the slashdot crowd already has the doritos on desktops angle covered...
Dell assumes that customers 1) know the difference between an Inspiron, a Latitude, and and an XPS, and 2) care. Even GM gave up on that nonsense and discontinued the Oldsmobile nameplate.
The support that I want Dell to do is to: help the kernel developers to support their devices/hardware.
Everything else can be done through normal channels.
There was no option to install Cowboy Neal. How can they claim to be geek savvy?
Xix.
"Everything is adjustable, provided you have the right tools"
No way. Screw this 1970's Unix crap. I want a dual boot Plan 9 / Coyotos system.
-- The act of censorship is always worse than whatever is being censored. Always.
Dell's servers being overwhelmed doesn't mean there's an actual overwhelming demand for Linux, just that there's a lot of Linux users with time on their hands who wish to try and give that impression, at least until they lose interest and move on to something else.
Hmmmmmmmn, on the one hand we've got a whole bunch of people saying 'we want Dell to pre-install linux', on the other hand, we've got just you saying 'its a bunch of zealots trying to game Dell to make linux look good'.
I know which I'd believe.
There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
I know that this flies in the open source/free software philosophy, but Dell should choose one distribution and stick with it. That way, they can set up specific Dell support groups. They can have a bunch of consumers who have bought the machines as free support in the groups. It will work.
Why? Because unlike say Apple who could have this work, the system will be much more open. Apple's system should work because people are locked into hardware and software, but everything is closed so it's tough if, for example, iTunes 7.1 keeps the hardware mounted volume controls from working, to get a fix. Everyone just has to wait for Apple to put out 7.1.1. With Dell and (my choice) Ubuntu, the system is open.
It could work. It could work very well.
Yeah, I'm as old as my UID would suggest.
Dell does not know their customers. I'm not participating in any Linux poll that does not have a CowboyNeal option.
-R
I paid more than that for a laptop that was 0% guaranteed to work with Linux.
I recognize that not everybody is up for that brand of adventure, but y'know what? If Dell gave me a test suite to run, I'd gladly hunt down what problems I can in the 3%. I get a community-helping project to chew on, Ubuntu (eventually) gets a "compatible with Dell laptops" endorsement, and Dell gets a new product line for free*.
* Yes, the initial development of said test suite might be expensive, but they probably have to do that anyway even if they only support one distro. Each successive distro that works on passing said tests costs Dell nothing, but they get to say, "See! We support all kinds of Linux!"