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Microsoft Gives In To the EU

An anonymous reader writes with word that Redmond Developer News is reporting that Microsoft has given in to EU threats of further fines. The company has opened up a whole host of protocols, including the Exchange protocol, under a license, the terms of which are not known. No other news outlet has picked up this story so far.

25 of 161 comments (clear)

  1. Don't be fooled by EvilGoodGuy · · Score: 5, Funny

    Microsoft isn't bowing down for nothing, this is all just the next step in their plan to buy the EU. Just watch, you heard it here first!

    1. Re:Don't be fooled by alexandreracine · · Score: 3, Funny

      Actually, Bill is bowing down to dodge the chair of ... someone...

      --
      No sig for now.
  2. Wont satisfy Critics? by sr180 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Their moves wont satisfy critics, because they will do everything in their power to stop Open Source from using these protocols.

    --
    In Soviet Russia the insensitive clod is YOU!
    1. Re:Wont satisfy Critics? by Tim+C · · Score: 4, Insightful

      In which case they'll almost certainly still be in violation of the terms of the court ruling. The intention was to open up the protocols and APIs for everyone, not just for those few companies with deep pockets and clever lawyers.

  3. Not Free by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    FTA:
    Of course, the licenses are not free. And, to a large extent, Microsoft is bowing to the European Commission, which decreed the company must make the interfaces public so rivals can compete on what they claim will be a more level playing field.

    It appears that this wont make its way into the Open Source community; however, it does open up the market to competition. More competition is better than zero competition.

    1. Re:Not Free by Technician · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Uhh ISO now fast tracks Microsoft submissions, havnt you heard? One good thing that MSFT is now pushing their standards, that forces Adobe to follow suit with their submissions. The great thing about standards is there is so many to choose from now :)


      ISO Certification fast track or not, the Customers will demand formats that exchange nicely. MS is working hard to prevent it as seen in the article..

      "Redmonk Analyst Stephen O'Grady said Microsoft could not -- for any number of reasons, most of them political -- support ODF earlier on in the process.

      "ODF support would have to be compelled by external parties, and large ones at that," O'Grady said. "I'm sure many within Microsoft hoped that ODF would indeed fade away, but I doubt they expected that, and once it trod down the path towards ISO certification, this move was probably a given." "

      It is going to be a fierce battle for a while as MS pushes for their own in house solution and hope the other format will die out because their format is extended.

      "The move is a big about-face for Microsoft, which has said it would not natively support ODF, openly dismissing the standard as too "limited" to meet the demands of the market."

      MS is trying to define the market again instead of leting the market define the market.
      If it is too limited to meet the demands of the market, why is the market demanding it? The market is demanding it because the MS format is too limited. The limitation is in it's inability to be accessed by other systems.

      Good luck the the new browser war!

      --
      The truth shall set you free!
    2. Re:Not Free by jimicus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Who is going to want to compete in making an alternative exchange server other than Free software proponents and perhaps Apple.

      Don't underestimate Apple. They've got a server product, it supports some of the most common things served today out of the box (such as HTTP, LDAP - don't know if they've also got an IMAP server in there but I'd think so).

      I reckon they'd love to implement 100% exchange compatability.

  4. I am sure that this term will be in the license by jonwil · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "The specifications covered by this license cannot be used in programs released under the GPL" (or rather, license terms that are intended to have the same effect without mentioning the GPL by name)

    1. Re:I am sure that this term will be in the license by slashjunkie · · Score: 5, Interesting

      If such a term was in the licence, it would open up a legal can of worms for projects such as Samba, Scalix etc, that are already doing quite a good job of reverse engineering Microsoft's closed protocols.

      What if some of these specifications were leaked into the public domain by a company that bought a licence - how could you then prove or disprove whether Samba had reverse engineered protocols under their own steam, or seen some of the leaked specifications, mysteriously fast tracking certain features they'd been slaving over?

      It could be SCO vs Linux all over again.

    2. Re:I am sure that this term will be in the license by Crayon+Kid · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Not much, according to the copyright law. As long as a developer gets his hands on the specs and develops software that implements them from scratch, there's nothing they can do. Licensing only covers specific, already-written, code. Reverse engineering is limited in the USA by the DMCA, but there's no such thing in the EU. Providing the same functionality is limited in the USA by software patents, but again, there's no such thing in the EU (even though there's a lot of push for them). So all you can do is tie the people involved with NDA's and liability claims, but once someone gets around that, there's nothing stopping them from implementing the specs. Again, this only works in EU.

      Of course, I'd venture that Microsoft already thought as much. If they're opening up their specs it may mean that (a) they're desperate to sell to the EU no matter what the possible consequences; (b) they're going to take whatever measures to stop the specs finding their way to free software. NDA's, liability and exorbitant licensing costs are pretty good methods, albeit not infallible. Another trick would be to offer the specs hopelessly obfuscated, but that won't work if they charge an arm and a leg for it -- those who pay want to know what they payed for.

      --
      i ate crayons when i was a kid and now i have two braincells and the blue ones taste nicer
    3. Re:I am sure that this term will be in the license by mrchaotica · · Score: 3, Informative

      leaked into the public domain

      You can't "leak" something to the Public Domain; only the copyright holder can release it (by explicitly stating so). Even if a third party publishes it, it's still copyrighted.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

  5. The trouble is this.. by zappepcs · · Score: 4, Interesting

    MS is not willing to go the whole way. They give lip service to many things, but their business model is about SELLING software. The whole F/OSS environment is killing them, and those folks that want open standards are considered terrorists in Redmond. MS cannot be open or convenient anymore than a car can be an airplane.

    MS has to fight tooth and nail against all common sense or change their business model completely. Guess which will happen as long as they are able to buy congressmen?

  6. Announcement by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    I would like to announce that I, Anonymous Coward, have also given in to threats from the Government and will be complying with local laws, subject to certain conditions that I don't yet choose to reveal. This is my latest claim to have complied with the laws that supposedly bind me. The many many previous times I've made similar claims, it has been nothing more than wordplay with no basis in reality but please don't allow that to distract you from treating this as Headline News. Just because I'm a serial liar doesn't mean I shouldn't be given the same respect and trust as everyone else. Thanks.

  7. Binary protocol translation modules by Mathinker · · Score: 5, Insightful
    What is the state of the parallel open protocols? If their functionality is well-developed, an altruist with deep enough pockets might be able to release binary-only plugin modules which translate between protocols. Or perhaps a binary-only proxy server application which does that.

    Unfortunately, I would guess that Microsoft's license tries to deal with this problem. Probably in a way analogous to Numerical Recipes' clause:

    (ii) our software is bound into the programs in such a manner that it cannot be accessed as individual routines and cannot practicably be unbound and used in other programs. Specifically, under this license, your program user must not be able to use our programs as part of a program library or ``mix-and-match'' workbench.

    Too bad the EU couldn't force them to go totally open.

  8. The article is wrong! by jkrise · · Score: 4, Informative

    From TFA: Microsoft is making key communications protocols available for license , so that third parties, including competitors, can link into the company's newest enterprise products...

    The key communications protocols are the ones where Microsoft has a monopoly position... namely,

    The protocols by which a Windows 95 / 98 / NT / 2000 PC joins and authenticates with the Domain Controller.
    NTFS, Active Drirectory, SMB etc. would be some other protocls of interest.

    To my knowledge, Exchange Server, Share Point etc. are not areas of monopoly for Microsoft.

    The article is plain WRONG. It might be some more PR spin by MS as usual, though. You want us to open up our protocols? Okay... here's how Dynamics CRM talks to SharePoint Portal! One thinks the EU inspectors will not be susceptible to such tricks.

    --
    If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
  9. Re:Is IMAP open enough for ya? by Alphager · · Score: 3, Insightful

    MS Exchange Server has supported IMAP for years.

    If an organization really, honestly, truly wants to not use Outlook... NOBODY is forcing them to. But it's so much easier to whine and moan.

    Exchange is the best product of it's kind out there. Ever try using Notes? Yech... what a train wreck. How about Openview? Disaster. Oh wait!! Let's use Fetchmail! Troll. It was never about the emails (who the hell uses exchange because of the emails?!); it was about the fricking calendaring functionality which is NOT available to non-MS programs.
  10. OMG - I was there! I was there! by cliveholloway · · Score: 4, Funny

    "No other news outlet has picked up this story so far"

    Wow. I feel honored. I can now tell my grandkids when I'm old and crusty that I actually saw a peice of news that was posted first on Slashdot - as opposed to the usual way of things being recycled from Fark, Digg or CNET. Or worse, a Roland Pickadoor submission.

    Is that a tear forming in the corner of my eye? Sniff.

    --
    -- Trinity in high heels carrying a whip: The donimatrix - there is no spoonerism
  11. Microsoft Gives In To the EU? by ChameleonDave · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The multinational corporation Microsoft has complied with the law, and this is reported as "Microsoft Gives In To the EU". I wonder whether the headline would have read "Microsoft Gives In To the US" if the laws in question has been American.

  12. They seem to have trouble by rolfwind · · Score: 4, Insightful

    buying votes in Europe. I'm not saying they haven't, but they don't have the system locked up like they do have here.

    And America is losing power to influence the world. Most of this is because on the horizon is the vision that they won't be THE dominant player anymore that can strongarm anybody they please, like they were for most of the 20th Century, because of a variety of factors (EU gaining power, China, US own economy and debt).

    Microsoft's paid-for Congressman will be doing less good (for them) in the rest of the world as time moves on.

  13. Well it isn't surprising by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 3, Interesting

    If the EU demanded a total, open, no cost solution, MS probably wouldn't give in. Heck they might even rather pull out of the European market entirely than do that.

    Remember: Anti-monopoly rulings don't necessarily mean that competitors get everything they want for free, it just means that you have to make it reasonable for your competitors to work with what you have. For example when phone companies had to let CLECs in, they don't have to give them the space for free. They can, and do, charge them for all the rack space they use. However it has to be a reasonable and non-discriminatory fee meaning they can't say "Uhh ok it's $100,000 per 1RU and you can only buy one."

    I'm sure the MS deal will be similar. You'll be able to license their specs for whatever is covered under the agreement, and the fees will be fixed and reasonable, but it will cost money and there may be conditions on it. That's probably fine for the EU. Their concern isn't making OSS fans happy, their concern is that companies be able to produce products that compete with Microsoft's stuff.

    1. Re:Well it isn't surprising by GreyPoopon · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You'll be able to license their specs for whatever is covered under the agreement, and the fees will be fixed and reasonable, but it will cost money and there may be conditions on it.

      Costing money is fine as long as the fees are reasonable. But the conditions will be far more important. If there's a condition that reads like "this license is not valid if the protocol is used in conjunction with Open Source Software", then it will be completely unacceptable. It's quite nearly the same as saying "any company can license our software except {list of competitors}". For the pure OSS supporters, I know that having to pay license fees will not be acceptable, but it's not reasonable to expect a company to give everything away. The goal of this is to make sure that a large company does not abuse its dominant market position in such as way as to prevent competitors from obtaining a share of that market. Reasonable license fees with fairness to all potential competitors are an acceptable way of reaching that goal.
      --

      GreyPoopon
      --
      Why is it I can write insightful comments but can't come up with a clever signature?

  14. that's not "opening up" by nanosquid · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Licensing protocols to other companies is not "opening up". And given that open source is becoming more and more important inside the EU, this may not satisfy the EU.

  15. Re:Well goddammit make your own protocols by DroversDog · · Score: 3, Funny

    Mr Ballmer,

    You are welcome to an account on Slashdot and don't have to be an AC.

    For the record anyone can make their own protocols but unless we have some agreement then inter communication between different platforms would be impossible.

    You see you'd end up with a monopoly otherwise if others weren't able to talk to your software.

    I bet you didn't know THAT.

    Regards

  16. Seen it all before by valentyn · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This is the same spin we've seen before. I've got a news item from last August on paper that says *exactly* the same thing ("Microsoft buigt voor Brussel" - meaning MS gives in). The one-but-latest news came from the EU a couple of weeks ago, saying "You know, these protocols aren't innovative at all, your fee is too high", so now it's MS's turn again: "Hey, we finally open up, here are all our protocols, for a most reasonable fee that we don't exactly know yet".

    The lawsuit *is* about the licensing. It is not about the protocols. Saying "you'll get the protocols but we'll define the licensing and the fees next time" is like saying "I will make you rich, and I'll define rich for you".

    --
    my other sig is a 500 page novel
  17. First I was about to joke .. by Qbertino · · Score: 4, Insightful

    First I was about to joke and write something like 'MS gives in to representative body of 400 Million people' but then I noticed that even this can't be taken for granted. I'm glad the EU has enough self-respect to tell MS who's boss when it comes to anti-competitive behaviour.

    Then again MS was delaying the game to draw attention off the fact that they're defending their monopoly much more effectively in another place: Standards, closed, non-compatible Data Formats and Software Patents. The former two are great devices of market control. The EU ought to do something about that. Probalby MS wasn't really interested in lobbying in this as, as giving in here isn't so much a loss for them as it would be if they where required to comply to an amount of standard IT standards. Now *that* would be the appropriate punishment for MS.

    I'll rest when MS has 50% market share or less.

    --
    We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca