David Pogue Reviews the Apple TV

necro81 writes "David Pogue of the NY Times has devoted his weekly column to the newly released Apple TV. He also has a video blurb to go with it. He compares it to the XBox360 and Netgear's EVA8000, which also deliver content traditionally trapped in a PC onto a TV set. Apple TV Pros: setup is as easy as can be, it's small and silent form factor will be good for home theaters, and the interface and remote control are intuitive. Cons: HDTV only, playback is limited to formats playable within iTunes, and no internet functionality other than movie trailers."

Comments

Not quite

[Hawthorne01]

It will play on 480i, you just need component video to do it.

hacked

[jamienk]

AppleTV can now play Xvid -- http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?s= &threadid=2391956

Re:hacked

[JimDaGeek]

That is a lot of crap to do just to support a non-DRM encrusted format. The blurb even said you need QT Pro, which means more money for Apple to just play a file. No thanks, I will stick to MythTV.

Re:hacked

[ocelotbob]

The AppleTV's been out for 1 day, obviously the hacks at this point are at the quick and dirty level. If you fully RTFA, you'll learn that they're working on ways to streamline the process, and should have something a lot nicer soon.

Re:hacked

[JimDaGeek]

While as a geek I think it is cool to hack the hardware to offer more features, I don't think you should have to do that for a device you pay for to just watch some content that you record. Xvid is open, so there is no reason for Apple to not at least include Xvid playback support. The only thing I can think of is that Apple wants the AppleTV to be nothing more than a player for iTMS content. If that is the case, then no thanks.

Re:hacked

[Anonymous Coward]

The only thing I can think of is that Apple wants the AppleTV to be nothing more than a player for iTMS content. If that is the case, then no thanks.

FUD. You are just using Slashdotters' desire for multiple and open formats to perpetuate the FUD that Apple devices only play Apple contents.

Yeah, Apple should support more formats (both audio and video). No argument there. However restricting it to MP-4 and H.264 does not mean it only supports iTMS content only (FWIW, there is no iTMS anymore. It's iTunes Store now). You can create your own MP4 and H.264 files without DRMs and use them with [Apple]TV. You can use QuickTime to export videos for [Apple]TV or use Handbrake to convert your DVDs to H.264.

Re:hacked

[dr.badass]

Xvid is open, so there is no reason for Apple to not at least include Xvid playback support.

It already does. I have hundreds of XviD-encoded videos, all of which I am confident will play on AppleTV. They already play in iTunes and on the iPod. How is this possible? Easy. I just chose not to encode them with non-standard features, and not stick them in non-standard formats like AVI or MKV.

I don't think anyone should have to compensate for the fact that open source projects don't devote much energy to making it easy to produce widely-compatable videos. For example, mencoder defaults to using AVI, no matter what codecs you've chosen, and only mplayer will play such files.

I think a stronger case could be made for them to try to support Windows Media -- at least there's a reason for so much content to exist in that format.

Re:hacked

[Karlt1]

"That is a lot of crap to do just to support a non-DRM encrusted format. The blurb even said you need QT Pro, which means more money for Apple to just play a file. No thanks, I will stick to MythTV."

How in the world is this marked "insightful"? There is so much misinformation in those two sentences its ridiculous.

1. The AppleTV plays MP3, AAC, AIFF, WAV, Apple Lossless, Mpeg4 and H.264 all non DRMd formats.
2. You don't need Quicktime Pro for any AppleTV functionality. You can use Handbrake (free open source software available for Windows, Macs, and Linux) to rip DVDs to either MPEG or H.264
3. You don't even need QTPro to re-encode into an AppleTV format. There are plenty of free tools that can convert from Divx to Mpeg. If you're using a Mac, you download the codecs for QT, and you import the Divx movie into iTunes (Movie2Itunes) and then choose the "Convert to iPod format.

HDTV (component 480i counts) only?

[stratjakt]

Moronic. Turns out it's not that much more useful than my Xbox 360, and infinitely less useful than a hacked xbox media center.

I mean OH MY GOD APPLE I LOVE THIS YOU HAVE REINVENTED MY TV! It now has YOUR STORE ATTACHED TO IT!

Re:HDTV (component 480i counts) only?

[Bill_the_Engineer]

It didn't take long for someone to start bashing Apple or mock its users. Jeez..

Besides Apple TV seems to be easily modifiable (Probably more so than your xbox media center).

Anyway, Apple delivers a product that works AS ADVERTISED. Nobody is forcing you to buy one. If you need DVR, Tivo has a product for you.

Or just maybe, you can have a media server in another room and just use the Apple TV to view the content remotely (and without the noise of cooling fans). I think it works out of the box this way (just import your video into iTunes).

I'm sure a neat hack is coming real soon that will provide more features. I know I may get one just to play with and try to merge it with elgato's eyeTV.

Re:HDTV (component 480i counts) only?

[stratjakt]

I should have qualified "no more useful than 360 wrt video"

I also should have noted that the 360 costs just as much. And the hard drive on the appletv isn't much bigger, 40 gig isn't much when you're talking HDTV movies at 7-9 gigs-ish each (based on my 360 marketplace experience).

Also, Apple doesn't say (they never do... PART OF THEIR HIP MYSTIQUE!!). I see one single lonely USB port on the back. Can that be to attach storage, or just for iPod syncing? I know I stuck a fat-formatted 80 gig usb drive filled with wmv files into my 360 and they play fine. The wmv-only is my only gripe with the 360 (its a big one, though).

Are you supposed to have all your purchased video on your Mac (sold seperately), and leave it running non-stop?

They way underdelivered here. I mean, REINVENTED HOW I WATCH TV.

Re:HDTV (component 480i counts) only?

[Jeff DeMaagd]

Sorry, but no, 480i is not HDTV, even if it is in component video form. The connector type doesn't define whether it is HD.

I had an SDTV that I bought in 2000 had 480i component, and that TV was not capable of progressive or HD video.

Re:HDTV (component 480i counts) only?

[bestinshow]

Take AppleTV. Take out 40GB hard drive. Image onto 160GB hard drive. Put 160GB into Apple TV. Kappow, extra storage space.
Whilst the drive is out you can also install a SSH server so you can get access to the filesystem. The username/password on the AppleTV is frontrow/frontrow. I guess you could install Apache or Postgresql or whatever here as well, assuming the BSD layer is intact. People are working on getting the USB port fully active, and remote desktop active.
And via the SSH server you can install divx/xvid codecs into Quicktime on the AppleTV to support this common video format for backups (of DVDs, or Cinema showings, hehe).

It'll kill your warranty though. But it's looking to be a very hackable consumer BSD box right now...

Re:HDTV (component 480i counts) only?

[Overly Critical Guy]

The 360 is a gigantic, noisy Windows PC designed to spread the Win32 monopoly into the living room. The Apple TV is a tiny, silent iTunes streaming device. I'll take the Apple TV.

Re:Shouldn't this be the "iTV"?

[an.echte.trilingue]

Already trademarked as the eye TV, I understand. I believe that this is the product that holds that trademark: http://www.elgato.com/

hmm

[mastershake_phd]

Right now my Xbox with Xbox Media Center is more functional than this. It will play just about anything. Including realmedia files inside of a rar.

Re:hmm

[Anonymous Coward]

It will play... realmedia files

that goes in the con column

Eh

[DogDude]

TV as we know it is a rapidly dying market. More than half of the people I know don't have an antenna/cable/satellite TV. I haven't had a "TV" for anything other than games and DVD's for 5+ years. The quality of the content on "TV" is consistently "lowest common denominator" and it's beyond absurd to pay for TV (cable or satellite), and then have to sit through advertisements.

Re:Eh

[Luscious868]

TV as we know it is a rapidly dying market. More than half of the people I know don't have an antenna/cable/satellite TV. I haven't had a "TV" for anything other than games and DVD's for 5+ years. The quality of the content on "TV" is consistently "lowest common denominator" and it's beyond absurd to pay for TV (cable or satellite), and then have to sit through advertisements.

I've read about you!

I guess I spend too much time at work ....

[nbvb]

I saw "Netgear EVA8000" and thought of HP's midrange disk array.

I'm actually surprised that Netgear chose the name, since it's blatantly similar to this.

Re:Give me a call when it plays my MYTHTV recordin

[wizbit]

I was going to ignore, but I had to plug Myth2iPod. Singly the greatest hack I've seen come out of the MythTV community. And, it should work with AppleTV - AppleTV plays DivX content, and Myth will happily transcode to DivX. Setup a feed in iTunes, and fiddle with the encoding settings in myth2iPod (e.g., better quality, maybe encode to h.264) and leave iTunes running on a computer in the basement with a network share. Bingo, instant MythTV feed to AppleTV via iTunes and myth2iPod. And that's available *now*. I'm sure some Mac developer will come up with an even slicker solution - you can run the frontend on a Mac these days, after all.

What's the point?

[rizzo420]

i'm not sure i understand the point of apple tv. i have a tivo that no only lets me play files off my computer, but also let's me record tv. what's the point of the apple tv (only 50 hours), which costs more than an 80 hour tivo with dual tuner that comes with a 1 year subscription? with my tivo, i can move movies to my computer (currently only windows, but possibly macos as well, i'm not sure), record tv on 2 stations at the same time, have a nice tv guide, watch movies from my computer on my tv, play music on my computer through my tv, show picture slideshows from my computer on my tv, download amazon unbox videos, and watch tivo casts that i get off the internet. what's the point of apple tv if it doesn't even do half of this, yet costs the same? i just don't get it.

Re:What's the point?

[2nd Post!]

1) Cheaper because it has no subscription costs
2) Easier because it does less

Both of these points were very salient to the iPod's success. Apple expects them to be key drivers for the AppleTV as well.

Re:What's the point?

[jfengel]

Mostly this is Apple's way of leveraging the video capability of its iTMS out to your TV, exactly the way TiVo does for Amazon Unbox.

I'll admit I'm mystified why they didn't make it a general DVR at the same time. My best guess is that it's coming but that the software wasn't ready yet; Apple's got very high standards for such things. But I haven't heard any complaints from TiVo customers, and my limited experience with them has been pleasant.

On the other hand I've heard much bitching about Unbox. Maybe Apple felt that they could get ahead of that and make people prefer to download rather than record; they'd rather sell you Lost for $2 than record it for free. They're certainly being way forward-looking by aiming at HDTVs, but they're not selling HDTV content yet, so they seem to be premature or out of touch.

Re:What's the point?

[2nd Post!]

I'm trying to answer your question, but you seem to keep misunderstanding.

What is the point of an iPod when the Creative Nomad was cheaper, in 2001?
iPod was smaller (same as AppleTV vs TiVo.)
iPod was easier to use (There is no need to schedule, program, or search the AppleTV. Just click and watch.)

The point YOU keep making is there are more features on the TiVo.

The point I am making is that those extra features aren't important. The person who wants an AppleTV doesn't want to "know the time and date", don't want to "program the TiVo", don't want to "Subscribe to get the guide", don't want to "Network the TiVo".

For an AppleTV all you do is:
1) Plug into TV
2) Turn on PC
3) Allow the AppleTV to synch to the PC

This is the same as the iPod:
1) Plug into headphones
2) Plug into PC
3) Allow the iPod to synch to the PC

Re:What's the point?

[badasscat]

The point YOU keep making is there are more features on the TiVo.

The point I am making is that those extra features aren't important.

They are important when you're dealing with video rather than music.

The really important thing that either Apple failed to realize or just discounted for whatever reason is that while there has always been something of a defacto standard in music formats (mp3), there has never been a similar standard in video formats. They are now trying to impose h.264 as a standard, while supporting their own earlier QuickTime formats, but seriously - other than stuff you've purchased on iTunes (which can't be that much because they don't offer that much), how much video do you really have stored in these formats?

Mac owners probably have more than PC owners but even they probably have all sorts of .wmv and other files lying around. PC owners have a mixture of divx, xvid, .wmv, avi files of various types, some quicktimes, some mp4's, some mpeg1 and 2's, etc.

What would be "easiest" for most people would be to have a device that supports all of these formats equally, so they don't even need to think about video formats anymore. What Apple is doing is not easy; they're forcing you to ensure that all of your video is in a format that they support, either through transcoding or by purchasing it from them.

If the Apple TV supported all of these formats and supported up to 1080p through HDMI, then yes, you'd have a useful device there. As it is, it is not a very useful device, nor is it particularly easy to use for anybody that already has a lot of video on their computers.

I mean, when you have to hack the thing to get it to recognize the most popular downloadable video format on PC, something is not right.

Re:What's the point?

[vought]

i'm not sure i understand the point of apple tv.

It's an iPod without a battery, but with HDTV out. Instead of a cable, it uses wireless to sync with iTunes.

It does what the iPod does - lets you move media that's stored on your computer to other places. Instead of pluggin in headphones and toting it around with you like the iPod, you plug AppleTV into your TV sit on the couch.

Got it now?

Re:What's the point?

[jtn]

Alternately, Mr Troll, Apple has usually (USUALLY) come out with products that do as advertised with the minimal amount of fuss and agony. Most Apple-purchasers do not buy for the brand as that would just be silly.

Huh?

[PingSpike]

Apple TV Pros: setup is as easy as can be, it's small and silent form factor will be good for home theaters, and the interface and remote control are intuitive. Cons: HDTV only, playback is limited to formats playable within iTunes, and no internet functionality other than movie trailers."

Sounds worse then a regular TV, am I missing something? Whats the big deal with this thing?

Re:Huh?

[Paulrothrock]

I know! And the iPod has no wireless and less space than a Nomad! They'll never catch on.

Re:Huh?

[ClosedSource]

I think it's instructive to remember that there are far more minimally successful or unsuccessful Apple products than there are very successful Apple products. Actually, the iPod is the only one that is a market leader.

So the odds that this product will be a big winner are not that high if Apple's overall performance is considered.

Re:Shouldn't this be the "iTV"?

[HaeMaker]

Didn't stop them with iPhone.

Here is what is going to make it worth it..

[BlueBoxSW.com]

What is going to make AppleTV worth the money is this:

Video Podcasting.

There are already a plethera of great video podcasts available, and with AppleTV you can sit and watch them in your livingroom, not on a computer or 2" ipod video screen.

Sure, a bit of effort every day, you can download the same content and burn it to DVD, or get it to play some other way on your TV, but with AppleTV and a smart iTunes playlist, you can have a couple hours of content that's new and interesting and commercial-free every single night.

This isn't a strike at Tivo, this is a stike at Prime Time programming of all kinds.

it's all about the 'pods?

[abes]

I get the fact that it's supposed to be the iPod, but for you living room. It makes sense for Apple's perspective. They have content (in this case TV shows and movies) that they want you to buy and watch. What's a primary factor keeping from people watching? They want to use their TVs.

Now in theory you can take the signal from your computer, and send it to the TV. Of course, you might have to buy some of your own cables/get hardware. Thus Apple's solution. Provide a simple box that takes care of all of that for you. It's a small box that just magically streams all your content (across your various computers) to a single point, which can be hooked up to a TV.

BUT, as a consumer this doesn't make sense. I like the idea of picking what shows I want to watch, but I actually don't want to own most of them. If the Apple TV allowed me 'rent' a show, I would buy one in a second. Or if I could pay a monthly fee (say: 10 shows subscription), again, I'd totally bite. But paying premium to own something I plan on only watching once has absolutely no appeal to me. It's too expensive. It's still cheaper in the long run to just get cable if you go above 4-5 shows (daily show, colbert report, myth busters, robot chicken .. there already).

I don't see Apple doing this anytime soon, as it seems to go against their current business model. So instead they seem to get some strange compromise. Something almost useful .. but only if you enjoy spending a lot of extra . It doesn't give unique functionality like an iPod (or any other MP3 player), where portability is essential. It just makes things a little easier.

Maybe Apple has something up their sleeves. I keep waiting, but it isn't looking too likely...

Re:Interesting.

[astrosmash]

They pulled the HD out of the Apple TV unit and attached it to an existing OS X system. The disk apparently contains a pretty standard OS X 10.4.7 install, so they just added the additional QuickTime plug-ins to /Library/QuickTime/.

Apparently they also enabled ssh. My speculation: They reconfigured launchd and the firewall to allow ssh connections to sshd, and presumably they configured the local user account (whatever it is) to allow public-key authentication so they don't have to futz around with any passwords. All of that can be done by simply editing text configuration files.

Re:The Apple deal

[blankaBrew]

"What OSS has it released?"

How about Bonjour, Darwin Streaming Server, XNU Kernel, Launchd Services and the forthcoming iCal Server which might help the OSS community finally have a competitor to Exchange.

"Apple loves to use OSS... What OSS has it released? Why isn't OS X open sourced?"

Oh....sure.... apple should open source their whole operating system...that makes a lot of sense for them and their shareholders. You sir are a moron or a troll.

Summary wrong: Apple TV doesn't support just HDTV

[patiwat]

The summary is wrong.

Summary: Cons: HDTV only

Article: The heartbreaker for millions, however, is that Apple TV requires a widescreen TV -- preferably an HDTV. It doesn't work with the squarish, traditional TVs that many people still have.

Apple TV will still work if you don't have an HDTV. It just requires a widescreen TV.

Re:The Apple deal

[shadow349]

What OSS has it released?

I don't know you from Eddie, but I'd be willing to bet that the answer is somewhere north of a metric fuckload more than you've released.

Re:The Apple deal

[blankaBrew]

As far as I understand it, iCal Server was written by Apple using no other OSS, yet they are releasing it as OSS. Therefore, they were not compelled by a license to opensource iCal...they just did it.

I think Apple missed the ball on this

[brokeninside]

By leaving out the tuner, they left out two of the four killer apps for a set top box: pausing live TV and season passes for time shifting TV shows. Of the other two killer apps (streaming content from the internet and from one's private network) one is a bit of a pain because you have to go to a dedicated workstation to buy movies off of the internet. As of right now, I'd rather buy a Mac mini with an EyeTV dongle and add DVD playback and a tv tuner for just over double the cost of the AppleTV.

Too bad I can't afford to do that.

Not that I'm arguing that this product won't be successful. It just won't be as successful as it could have been. I'll wager, though, that Apple will add the missing feature by the end of this calendar year.

Re:Give me a call when it plays my MYTHTV recordin

[jedidiah]

In general, the consumers that are targeted by this device don't have the technological saavy to use this device.

Perversely enough, homebrew PVR users are proabably Apple's biggest potential userbase for this thing. This includes MythTV users as well as users of SageTV, WinMCE and other PVRs.

This is a problem with devices of this kind in general. You can't just setup a windows file share somewhere and put files on it. You need to futz with some speciality server software.

This thing doesn't even play the full range of things that a Mac with a robust iTunes install could play. If it did then it could play nice with MythTV by just plugging it into the same LAN.

Re:but does it run linux?

[CapnRob]

Gad. OS X is much, much, much closer to being an implementation of FreeBSD than it is an implementation of Linux.

Re:The Apple deal

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't forget WebKit. It's based on KHTML. Initially, Apple just released their changes with the bare minimum of information necessary for complaince with the KHTML license. Some people complained that wasn't enough to be useful, so Apple released the whole CVS history.

Also, Apple recently ditched their own "Apple Public Source License" (or whatever it was called) and started releasing everything under the Apache license.

Re:Shouldn't this be the "iTV"?

[TheRaven64]

There is a big difference. Cisco doesn't make many (any?) products directly aimed at the Mac market, and so doesn't provide much added value to Apple. Elgato primarily focusses on the Mac market, and is respected amongst Mac users.

Pissing off Cisco costs them nothing. Pissing off Elgato costs them goodwill from some Mac users and may cost them a supplier if they cause Elgato to re-focus on non-Mac platforms.

Re:The opposite problem

[PopeRatzo]

I got three Macs in the house, and two Xbox 360s. I use Connect360 so the Macs can impersonate media center (or whatever they are called) PCs, which lets the two Xboxes browse through the iPhoto libraries, stream anything of iTunes as long as it is not DRM'ed, and pull any movies in ~/Movies

Has your family considered an intervention?

what not even...

[Ixlr8]

Cons: HDTV only To make matters worse, there's no floppy drive!

Re:Seems like a lame device

[jelton]

Let's do some number crunching, shall we?

Time Warner digital cable: $61.30/month x 12 months = $735.60/year.

I want to watch the following shows, which cost the following amounts on the iTunes Music Store:

• Lost $34.99
• Robot Chicken $19.99
• Venture Bros. $19.99
• Inside the Actor's Studio $9.99
• The Daily Show $119.88
• The Colbert Report $119.88
• South Park $23.99
• MythBusters $25.87
• The Shield $21.89
• The Riches $22.99
• My Name is Earl $36.99
• The Office $34.99
• Scrubs $34.99
• Law & Order $35.99
• NOVA $29.99
• Battlestar Galactica $34.99
• Stargate SG-1 $37.99
• Stargate Atlantis $37.99
• Psych $28.99
• Total $722.38/year

What's that, I can get all the shows I watch on iTunes and get movies and play my music all through one interface? I can't imagine why people would go for this...

The only downside is that that you can't browse cable tv offerings at 3:00 AM, the shows aren't currently HD and the price break is dependent on how much content you use. I expect that, within the next year, Apple will offer a subscription-based service (betcha it's still tiered, based on usage) and will start offering HD content. It may not be exactly the same thing as cable+DVR but it's pretty close to being competitive. Not too bad for version 1.0.