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WTO Again Sides With Antigua Over Online Gambling
TechDirt writes "For some time we've been following the ongoing conflict between the US and the island nation of Antigua surrounding internet gambling. Even before the passage of the most recent anti-gambling law, Antigua had gone to the WTO to complain that the US government's actions against online gambling were de facto protectionist measures, and thus violated international trade law. The WTO ended up siding with Antigua, although, quite predictably, the US did nothing to resolve the issue -- in fact, things have only gotten worse. Now the WTO is speaking out again, slamming the US government for its failure to abide by the decision against it. Once again, it seems likely that the US will ignore the decision, although that would give Antigua the right to retaliate. One possibility that's been thrown out there is that Antigua may turn itself into a haven for free music and software and set up some site like allofmp3.com. Of course, the US put pressure on Russia to crack down on that site, as part of the country's admittance into the WTO, but since Antigua is already part of the organization, the US would have no such leverage. Now, the WTO has spoken out again."
All I can say is the US has become one truly pathetic country.
My karma is not a Chameleon.
Move along, nothing (new) to see here. The US is just doing the usual "everybody but us need to adhere to the rules" routine.
There's no logic involved here. The average slashdot user is anti-WTO unless they find *against* the US. Then suddenly everybody loves the WTO.
It's not a question of morality. It's just trendy to hate the US right now.
That was an April Fool's joke, I thought... Slashdot takes 4/1 fairly far every year ;)
Yeah, maybe I'm pretty nerdy,but when the Slashdotit ratings were coming up as Avagadro's number and Faraday's constant (not to mention Jenny 867-5309), it was pretty clearly a joke.
Isn't this the same United States that "champions" the rule of law? There are so many examples of the US refusing to follow the law but expects other nations to do just that. I wonder what the ordinary American has to say about this.
The US ignores international pressure to stop being a dick. And people wonder why the world is turning against America. You can't be the loud-mouth, violent, drunk guy on your block, with engine parts all over your lawn, shooting guns at people who pass by, without expecting those people to not give you the time of day.
first off, the usa is not doing anything that every other country in the world does: act like a hypocrite. complain about another country doing xyz, while at the same time doing xyz as well
however, anyone who thinks the usa is special does need a comeuppance: the usa is just as hypocritical as china or russia or india or the majority of every other country in the world. at the same time, that observation is a double edged sword: the usa is no better, and NO WORSE, than these countries. seriously, find a crime the usa does, and tell me the majority of other countries in the world aren't guilty of the same thing
so the anti-americanism needs to be tweaked: the usa is not special and good, so if you thought it was, you need a spanking. at the same time, all the rabid anti-usa types need to check themselves if they think the usa deserves special prosecution for crimes every country is guilty of. all that needs to change is that the rabid patriotic americans need to wake up and admit they are wrong... the rabid anti-americans are STILL wrong, and always have been wrong
the only people with any valid opinion of the usa are those who do not especially love the usa, nor especially hate it. the usa does evil, the usa does good. much like every other country in the world. this balanced attitude is the only valid opinion. any other opinion is partisan propaganda, brain dead and unfair, whether anti-usa, or pro-usa
the usa is not special. not especially good, and not especially evil, either. listen up, braindead partisans
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
No, I don't think people generally love the WTO - however, they can see the irony when the very same institution which was used by the US to force others to do what the US wants is then ignored by the US, when the US is doing something contrary to the rules of the same organization it was using to browbeat others.
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The WTO certainly does not frown on morality based protectionism. There are actually WTO rules to specifically ban things for moral/religious reasons but the rule is that bans must apply equally to companies based inside the country as well.
The US gambling laws are economic protectionism hidden behind a thin veil of moralism and that's what the WTO is objecting to.
If they still want to ban gambling then they need ban it for everyone and remove the exceptions for US businesses.
It's not a question of morality. It's just trendy to hate the US right now. Projecting your own failings onto others, eh? It seems pretty trendy on
Do you actually have a logical, ethical defense of the US's behavior, or are you just another mindless drone (excuse me, I mean 'typical slashdotter')?
Oh, boo hoo.
Despite whatever misguided beliefs you may have, America has always been highly respected and loved by people all over the world. Whether you were from France, Germany, Japan or anywhere else, people looked toward America as an example for the rest of the world. A place people wanted to be. A country of hope for those who had none and a people that people loved. Perhaps not perfect, but still a place that gave hope to even those who loved their own countries.
This was illustrated by the response immediately after 9/11. Remember "We All Today are USA"? Remember people in every city on the planet marching, crying, holding vigils and saying they love America and that the attacks broke their hearts?
For a moment in time, we held the sympathy of a world that looked to us. And then we blew it. Some people hate America, including some Americans. For others around the world (and in America), it's not so much hate as disappointment. I have talked to countless people from every walk of life around the planet and one thing is consistent. They love Americans and they loved the America that gave them hope. That stood for ideals, cared about peace and freedom and being both an example to and a beacon for other free civilizations world-wide. Just because they criticize the country doesn't mean they hate it. It means they are frustrated with it. They are frustrated that the one great example of everything that appealed to them has turned on its head.
Rather than playing the Fox News "they hate our freedom and our baby jebus!" card that is so easy for the ignorant, self-involved idiots to play, try considering that just maybe we lost the sympathy, affection and respect of the entire world on our own watch and of our own accord. If we want to be able to travel the globe and enjoy the respect and fascination people once had for an American abroad, we need to reconsider our actions past and our decisions future. You can't lumber around the playground like a clumsy bully and simultaneously, shouting that you don't care what anyone else thinks and treating everyone else in the world community as a lesser human being by their nationality and simultaneously expect to be seen as a respectable victim standing up for themselves.
Part of being a mature country that provides world-wide leadership means giving great consideration to actions yet taken and honest introspective review of those already performed. Let's do a little less flag-waving and "put a boot in their ass" Toby Kieth bullshit and a little more growing up. I, for one, resent that those much older than myself have stolen the respect and admiration that being an American used to deserve and that my generation will probably not be alive by the time we manage to regain that respect.
Technically, the NA reservations don't count. It's a very complicated arrangement, but they are semi-autonomous.
I understand your point. I mean, historically - this arrangement lasts for as long as the US government wants it to last.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
now compare it to things china does
or russia
why does the things the usa does stand out as especially egregious? i see the same level of stink and hypocrisy and arrogance and evil in all 3 countries. so why aren't you hating russia or china?
if, however, you have "fallen out of love" with the usa, well ok then. just be balanced when you assess the crimes of the usa against the crimes of other countries. i think you'll find the usa does wrong to the same degree as the majority of other countries. therefore, it is not to be loved. but it is also not to be hated, or, not hated anymore than you would hate any other countries
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
and much to fear from arab tribalism
and much to fear form chinese imperialism
and much to fear from russian colonialism
and much to fear from european patriotism
and much to fear form indian chauvanism
etc.
all of these things. not just the americans. not just the arabs
our only saving grace in this world is you and me, seriously: those who see our problems as human problems, not japanese/ pakistani/ indonesian/ brazilian/ etc. problems
that's the challenge of this 21st century: the defeat of nationalistic hubris/ tribal pride, the emergence of universally accepted standards of HUMAN brotherhood
you and i know are shared humanity is more important than the country on our passports. unfortunately, too many in this world think their national/ racial/ tribal allegience is more important than their simple shared human allegiance
the challenge of the 21st century is the defeat of such people
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
There is one slight difference between Canada and Antigua. Canada relies a lot on US, while Antigua isn't as bound. As far as I recall Antigua plans to not recognize the US as a legal part of WTO and can therefore in their rights start selling copies of anything that should have been protected by US copyright. And I think the rest of us can legally buy anything produced in Antigua because they and we are legal members of WTO.
I think the US has to smarten up real fast about this or they might end up getting a slap on the wrist.
This is a FEDERAL anti-gambling law.
While you can argue that the law itself is unconstitutional (which IMO it is), you can't argue 10th amendment here.
IMO this law should never have been passed in the first place. Like you said, it's a state matter. Of course they're lumping this all under the "internet gambling is inter-state commerce" category, but this is bullshit. The commerce is not inter-state, it's inter-national.
According to the constitution, IMO the fed only has the authority to ban internet gambling *between states*. regulating international gabling would require a federal law - which is be definition bound by federal treaties.
Remember "We All Today are USA"? Remember people in every city on the planet marching, crying, holding vigils and saying they love America and that the attacks broke their hearts?
Errr, no, I don't remember that. I guess 'every city on the planet' doesn't include my part of Europe.
No, I don't think people generally love the WTO - however, they can see the irony when the very same institution which was used by the US to force others to do what the US wants is then ignored by the US, when the US is doing something contrary to the rules of the same organization it was using to browbeat others.
I agree with you, but instead of the word, "irony", I would use "hypocrisy".
"Despite whatever misguided beliefs you may have, America has always been highly respected and loved by people all over the world."
Not true. First of all, the respect and love has changed (going up and down) throughout the history of the USA, and secondly, the respect and love has never been universal 'all over the world'. In fact, I don't think there has ever been a time where the USA wasn't hated or disrespected by at least *some* part of the world.
And even in the best of times, I'm not sure one could say any population of a foreign country really 'loved' americans. Of course, that would depend on your interpretation of 'love'; if you mean by that a general 'goodwill' or 'liking' it would be more correct then something like 'adoring'.
"This was illustrated by the response immediately after 9/11. Remember "We All Today are USA"? Remember people in every city on the planet marching, crying, holding vigils and saying they love America and that the attacks broke their hearts?"
No, I don't remember that. First of all, I doubt it was in 'every city on the planet' - that reeks hyperbole, actually. Secondly, in some cities, they were marching and crying allright, but rather of joy that the USA got hit. This s particular the case in a lot of cities in the Middle East, where the USA has been seen as an imperialistic agressor since the last decade.
There was a lot of sympathy in Europe and other countries, however. But that sympathy shouldn't be construed as 'love for america and amercans', but rather sympathy for the thousands of victims of such a brutal act, regardless of their country of origin.
"For a moment in time, we held the sympathy of a world that looked to us. And then we blew it."
True.
"Some people hate America, including some Americans."
Well, more correct would be to say that *a lot* of people hate americans. And even more *dislike* America, or at least its current government (and by extension sometimes half of its population). You find the former more with middle-east countries, but the latter is currently wide spread, even among traditional allies like the europeans.
"They love Americans and they loved the America that gave them hope. That stood for ideals, cared about peace and freedom and being both an example to and a beacon for other free civilizations world-wide.[snip]"
I think you're being way off here, in an over-optimistic, self-indulgent way. I would rather say that some parts of the world, especially Europe, was considerable more sympathetic towards the USA (the 'love' and 'hope' thing is largely hyperbole, sorry) after WW2. In fact, Europeans had a reasonable amount of sympathy for the USA under the Clinton-administration; I can't remember the same anti-amercanism-feelings back then (at least not to the huge degree it has today), and it's not like it's THAT long ago.
"Just because they criticize the country doesn't mean they hate it."
Well, large parts of middle-east populations do actually hate the country. Western countries are more moderate, but there too (at least nowadays) large parts hate the bush-government, and to an extension, part of the populace too (since half voted for bush, after all). Though I think 'despise' would be a better term than 'hate' where European feelings are concerned.
"try considering that just maybe we lost the sympathy, affection and respect of the entire world on our own watch and of our own accord"
True.
"Let's do a little less flag-waving[]"
Good idea. But note that your own post isn't completely void of such (slightly veiled) flag-waving.
I think, all by all, you did try to give an honest post about your own people/country, without trying to blame everyone else but the USA. In that respect, you are to be applauded, and way more sincere than a lot of other USA-posters around here.
That said, you still have some of that weird, self-flattering, narcistic worldview about the world and the place of the USA in it. I think that's largely due
--- "To pee or not to pee, that is the question." ---
Jesus, lose the fucking ego. "Awe"?!? At what, exactly, "our freedoms"?
I'm amazed that you've managed to take your anecdotes ("countless" as they are), and managed to extrapolate things into logical absolutes, "every city" having "We Are All Today USA" days? (Huh, as a former citizen of another "Coalition Of The Willing" country, Australia, I can guarantee you that none of our capital cities had any such thing) - people laid flowers at the US embassy, sure, in recognition of a terrible act.
But "awe"?
You make it sound like America has had such a special place in the heart of people around the world, even in the past - you imply that because people came from all over the world to America, it ergo must be special. People came from all over the world to Australia, too. People came from all over the world to Europe, as well.
"admired"? No. If you want to say America was admired, you'd better realize that by the best interpretation of a definition I can come up with is that many, many other countries are equally "admired".
Umm it is the U.S. who are one of the founders of the WTO to get everyone else in the world to play fair with trade but when it doesn't suit them they cry foul and make it illegal. How come the U.K. and European Union hasn't made a statement against the U.S. yet is beyond me and they seek to benefit the most from the WTO ruling. But it's good to see a country as small as Antigua give the U.S. a run for their money because they can't make a living selling a service to U.S. customers. Total hypocracy the U.S. laws are.