Slashdot Mirror
E-Voting Reform Bill Gaining Adherants
JeremyDuffy sends us to Ars Technica for a look at an e-voting bill making its way through Congress that is gaining the support of the likes of Ed Felten and the EFF. Quoting: "HR 811 features several requirements that will warm the hearts of geek activists. It bans the use of computerized voting machines that lack a voter-verified paper trail. It mandates that the paper records be the authoritative source in any recounts, and requires prominent notices reminding voters to double-check the paper record before leaving the polling place. It mandates automatic audits of at least three percent of all votes cast to detect discrepancies between the paper and electronic records. It bans voting machines that contain wireless networking hardware and prohibits connecting voting machines to the Internet. Finally, it requires that the source code for e-voting machines be made publicly available."
Even if democracy didn't trump trade secrets, the commercial interests of the vendors are safe. If a competitor steals their precious source code, well, the competitor has to publish too and will get caught.
Yes, it matters.
Its not just national politics - the election has to be pretty close and have a pretty far reaching collusion of districts to really make a difference. Its also state & local politics, where fraud at one precinct or county can really make a difference in the outcome of the election.
If you want a real e-democracy that can make a difference....
http://www.blognow.com.au/edemocracy
By requiring that the entire platform be open source, the well-intentioned legislators just killed the bill. Do you think Microsoft and Sun are going to sit by and watch a market opportunity vanish? Do you think Linux advocate lobbyists are going to show up at Congressmens' doors with campaign checks?
This is a case of sacrificing the good by demanding the perfect. If the bill had instead required that only the voting software installed on the voting machines be open source, then the bill would not have alienated so many parties with enough money to kill it.
Yes, I did RTFA and I read the relevant text of the bill (section 247(C)9). The languange doesn't differentiate between platform software and software specific to the e-voting task.
"Disability rights advocate Harold Snider compared opponents of e-voting to Luddites and chastised them for their lack of faith in technology."
Because it's better to vote and not have it count than to.. er.. get help voting and have it count?
I really hope that line from the article was a flawed summary from the reporter. If it's an accurate characterization, Snider is missing the point entirely.
Opposition to electronic voting is not blanket opposition to use of electronics in voting procedures. It's opposition to secret devices that follow hidden procedures and proclaim an official result -- without the ability of anyone to verify the correctness of the procedures or the result.
Yes, this bill will not solve every problem with our political system but what kind of an excuse is there for whining? By your reasoning we shouldn't have bothered with the Clean Air act because it didn't address water pollution or the Clean Water Act because it didn't address air pollution, nor should we have bothered with the endangered species act because it did nothing about outsourcing.
This bill will not fix every problem that plagues our election system. It will fix some of the problems. Is that sufficient reason to pass it? Oh Hell Yes!
This is the sort of law that we need. I urge all Americans who read /. and care about our democracy to write their representatives and tell them to vote for this bill. Voting machine companies like Diebold and Sequoia will surely be lobbying against the bill, so we really need to show them that we care about this issue. This bill is also a great way to find out what your representative is all about. It is often surprising to find which congressmen and women support open source elections. This is certainly an issue that will NOT break down to party affiliation.
Ed Felten's comments on the bill can be found Here.
For such a specialized task, it shouldn't be hard to whip up some custom-coded OS that doesn't include all the bells and whistles that, say, Vista includes. Or XP. Or Win3.11, even.
But if only the program is transparent and the rest of the code on the machine is not, what's to prevent (for example) Steve Jobs for running for president and including a line of code that tells the MacOS voting machines that he always wins at least 50.1% of the vote?
So if paper is going to be the final word, why waste the money on voting machines in the first place?
KISS anyone? No, because then there are no kickbacks and bribes to take.
(lol verify word is "paranoia")
If only the French government did the same thing ... In France, electronic vote will be used for the next presidential elections, without any of these guarantees and without any open debate with the citizens.
:o)
A lot of people are against this evolution, as shown by a petition on the Internet : http://www.recul-democratique.org/About-us.html, and they demand approximatively the same requirements. People have to trust completely the result of the elections and they can't rely on the report of a private expert claiming that the program is secure. So it means open source for the computer scientists originating this petition and paper trail for the vast majority of the population who don't feel completely safe about the whole dematerialisation process.
Excuse me for any spelling or grammar mistake, or correct me in french.
Some people analyzed weaknesses in the bill and made recommendations for changes....e d2HR811.pdf
http://electionarchive.org/ucvInfo/US/ChangesNeed
This bill does many of the things that we in the /. community have argued for for some time now including open code inspection, reliable voting systems, and yes, reliable recounts and audits. Now is the time for the /. community to act on our endless snarky comments and help to move real change forward.
The Bill's text and record are available at Thomas. While there you can peruse the list of 200 Cosponsors to see if your house rep is among them (and should be given a cookie for that) or not (and should be corrected).
If you both support the bill and are a U.S. Citizen or Resident, you can go to the U.S. House of Representatives Website at www.house.gov, and Write your rep or contact them via their website (Recommended) to urge them to support the bill or thank them for already cosponsoring it.
With time to spare you can head over to the Senate and urge your senators to back the forthcoming companion bill in the senate. Following that a stop off to contact The Executive Branch (va a aqui para Espanol) to urge signing of the bill wouldn't hurt.
If you believe in any of the things this bill does then a few minutes on the phone or sending a polite e-mail shouldn't be too much. As cynical as we all can be about the influence of money on elections a groundswell is too costly to be overrun.
The bill shouldn't discriminate between the OS and the voting software. This is not a general purpose machine that requires an advanced OS -- it requires a bare minimum system that can count votes and print ballots! The machines that do these very limited tasks should not be something which Microsoft targets as a significant market for their standard operating systems.
What good is a viable candidate if your vote doesn't count anyway? Accurate voting is an essential element of a democracy, and so it MUST be in place.
If you want a better system, you need to support each component of that better system when it comes along. Sticking your head in the sand and waiting for everything to completely match your dream world isn't going to get you anywhere.
You can be sure there will be pork added to pay for replacement machines. Possibly even pork added for the existing vendors even to pay for opening their source. Nothing leaves congress without a huge pricetag.
What else would Diebold want? If this bill passes it would invalidate all the machines they
sold. They can then sell new machines to these customers.
I recently audited a local election in vote-buying prone Eastern Kentucky. Had I access to the voting machines, I could have pre-loaded the paper tapes with my desired results- all the observers would have signed off, seeing the printouts come out of the machines. In order to compare and count the voter sign-in sheet to the count generated by the voting machine, the candidate that lost the election would have had to spend thousands of dollars for a "re-count" (vs a re-canvass). One could not even count the signatures in the sign in sheets and compare that to the voting machine count under the "re-canvass" rules. Requiring a paper trail, and a statistical audit for each election would lower the risk of machine fraud. The recent Scientific American article on voting machines indicates that adding a headphone audio feedback to the e-voting paper trail reduces erroneous votes better than the paper trail alone. Clean elections are a good thing for us all. Support this bill!
The bill shouldn't discriminate between the OS and the voting software.
... and not one iota more. Every extra layer of "sophistication" adds more room for error, more places to hide something.
Couldn't agree more, because the two together comprise a functioning embedded system. Auditing the application and ignoring the operating system is pointless, from a secure voting perspective. The Congressman has it right.
Besides, this is not a supercomputer. This is not an accounting system. This is a goddamn electromechanical counter, a mindless device which could be implemented with vacuum tubes, or discrete TTL, or a BASIC Stamp! There doesn't need to be an "operating system", unless you need it to throw up your colorful corporate logo or justify your "Microsoft Vista ready" sticker. I mean, we aren't talking some incredibly complex technological requirements here, although there are those with a vested interest in making it appear so. For crying out loud it's been done for centuries using pieces of paper. Any corporation that manufactures these things that makes "intellectual property" claims about its "advanced software" is FULL OF CRAP and trying to keep the public from knowing what a shoddy job it did, or worse. If you aren't willing to open up your voting system to public inspection from the chips on up, then you shouldn't be allowed to sell them to our government. Any of our governments.
More to the point, this is just the kind of system that should be only as complex as it needs to be
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
It's almost like whoever wrote this bill had a clue.
Any grammatical or spelling errors above are for comic effect, and do not signify imperfection in the writer.
In all these discussions about e-voting, I don't really understand why the emphasis on Open Source software for voting computers. Why? The whole problem with e-voting is in transparency of the process. Does Open Source inside such a machine change that? How?
Can you see what compiler was used to turn source into binary? Can you verify that published source/binaries are the same as what's inside the machine in front of you? Can you verify that the hardware is the same as what the software is expected to run on? Can you verify that the hardware works as intended (like, no memory errors etc)? I expect that for most (or all) of these questions, the answer will be: no, not really.
That's the whole point of a paper trail. Essentially, it makes the counting black box irrelevant (as long as the paper trail is considered the authoritive result, that is). Wrong vote stored on flash? Who cares, as long as the correct vote is written on the paper output (and the voter can verify that before leaving).
At that point, what's inside the black box doesn't matter much anymore, and basicly serves to make voting easier, or help to get a quick (preliminary!) count of what the end result might look like. Closed source software, or unknown hardware inside? What's the problem as long as the correct votes are printed on dead tree, and verified by the voter?
But also at this point, the 'added value' of a voting computer becomes a mystery to me. Why not just ditch them? If you want quicker results, organise better or get more people to count votes. Good organisation (and paper!) is really all you need for elections that are both fair, and with quick results.
If this bill passes ... [Diebold] can then sell new machines to [all their former] customers.
Or printer and software upgrades.
If Diebold fixes the auditability problem I have no further gripe with the use of their machines. If buying an upgrade from them is 'way cheaper than replacing the machines outright, that's just dandy.
"If it's worth doing, it's worth doing at a profit."
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
By requiring that the entire platform be open source, the well-intentioned legislators just killed the bill.
... ... it would have been ineffective against malware embedded in the operating system - by the OS developers or later black-hats.
The version of "open source" required doesn't give away any copyright or patent protection, or transfer rights to USE the code to others - especially the competition. (It does puncture trade secret.)
If the bill had instead required that only the voting software installed on the voting machines be open source
This is not a minor issue: With control of the US Government at stake a LOT of engineering effort can be profitably applied to attempts to compromise the system - by political, economic, or foreign governmental interests.
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
I haven't read the actual law. Does it say the code needs to be publicly available for review, or that it actually has to be open-source? These are high-profile applications, and can be controlled strictly through licensing and audits of election equipment.
So if paper is going to be the final word, why waste the money on voting machines in the first place?
Because not all paper ballots are created equal, and paper ballots filled out by humans are more prone to error than paper ballots printed by a machine.
The current paper ballots involve things like hole-punches (hanging chads anyone?), filling in bubbles (fill in too many or too few or only partially), butterfly ballots, etc.
It's the same reason your college professors wanted you to type your papers. The machine, by default, makes the paper much more legible than it would be if the paper were written by hand.
Same with electronic voting. The machine makes the ballot much less likely to have an error on it than if the ballot is done by a human with a pen (optical ballots) or punch (punch cards).
There are other features you get with electronic voting. For example, you don't need to print the ballots in advance. You can just load the ballot into the machine the morning of the election, and when people votes, the machine prints out the office and the selected candidate. So instead of having to 'lock' the ballot a month in advance to allow for the ballots to be printed, you might be able to reduce that lead time to a few days or a week. Then when a candidate dies three weeks before the election, or somebody wins/loses a lawsuit, you have more time to correct the ballot.
You can also do neat things like randomize the order candidates appear on the ballot. One problem with elections is the candidate listed first tends to get more votes than other candidates. With electronic ballots, candidates can all be listed first an 'equal' number of times.
Electronic voting also gives you the ability to accommodate more people with disabilities.
paintball
Alas, that's probably true...but it's a bargain compared to not knowing if the election is rigged.
Voting machines must be allocated to voting districts in a manner proportional to the districts' populations.
paintball
Just a note about the sponsor and his central NJ district, which should explain how such a sensible bill came to be introduced. The district runs across the state from the Delaware River to within a few hundred yards of the Atlantic Ocean, encompassing Princeton University, and encompassing or abutting the telecom R&D community that had been centered around Bell Labs in Holmdel, including AT&T Labs, Avaya, Telcordia, Vonage, and many small companies founded by alumni of these companies. Also in the area are many civil servants and contractors for the Army's Communications Electronics Research Development & Engineering Command at Ft. Monmouth. In short, it's a real high-tech powerhouse.
The Congressman, prior to his election, was on staff at Princeton University's Princeton Plasma Physics Lab. A popular sight on many cars in this area is a bumper sticker reading (on two lines): "My Congressman is a Rocket Scientist / Rush Holt."
Here's an interview we conducted with Rush Holt, the congressman who has been pushing for this bill for years. It's about twelve minutes long, but a little more meaty than usual for a politician: Holt has a Physics Ph.D., so he has something of a scientific background, and walks through many of the problems with e-voting the proposal tries to solve (and is also fairly candid about why his bill took a while to catch on). We recorded it just before the last election.
There doesn't need to be an "operating system", unless you need it to throw up.
Edited for brevity.
[100% ISO 646 Compliant]
SVM, ERGO MONSTRO.
This bill identifies the specific problems and concerns with eVoting. It addresses them one-by-one in the logical manner suggested by the vast majority of people educated about eVoting. It is simply a well written piece of legislation.
In other words it doesn't have a hope in hell of passing, couldn't someone at least throw in some ammendment about a program to train Arctic monkies to do the recounts so legislators will consider it?
I stole this Sig
First of all, understand that I'm looking at this from an outsider's point of view. That said, this is an excellent bill--it provides accountability and a barrier to ballot stuffing, the primary barriers to responsible electronic voting.
The question I have is why not paper ballots?
Much of the rest of the world (Yes, including the first world) uses paper ballots that are tallied by humans. Electronic ballots can only be secure from abuse by having a per-ballot paper trail, so what advantage does the electronic ballot provide at all?
Honestly, I'm curious about why electronic ballots are a good idea at all, given the present state of the art.
"People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
I think we should just forget the whole idea of electronic voting machines (which looks like it's just as faulty as the old mechanical voting machines used in much of the USA for many years) and go with mark-sense paper ballots filled out with permanent ink pens or markers.
Not only is it machine-readable, but the ballots can be hand-counted quite easily in case of close elections.
Why do people pretend like this is hard? I do design engineering for a living so I'm not just talking out of my ass when I say that this is kick-ass easy stuff. Paper requirements? Like that's hard. Confirming paper requirements... just get a damned optical scanner and you can crank though a toilet paper sized roll of paper in no time flat. ("OMG it'll take WEEKS to confirm all the paper backups!!!") Code that is code reviewed by the general public? Using off the shelf electronics (not ASICs) for easy electronics verification? Hash checks to make sure the code is correct? Stable non-volatile system for power outages and the like? It is 100 times more complex to build the stereo in your car than to develop a simple accurate voting machine and yet the whining that is involved with this is amazing. I just don't get it? What are people's ulterior motives in this? With this much BS propaganda flying around there has to be something. don
WinCE developers can get source code already. So the machine has to run WinCE instead of Vista.
There doesn't need to be an "operating system", unless you need it to throw up.
Edited for brevity.
Edited for hilarity you mean. I say that as my graphics card just reset itself and Windows XP threw up all over me.
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
There is already, just for the hardware, $1 billion worth of funds allocated for this bill; to be used until it is used up (not tied to a budget year). There were other appropriations sections in this as well, auditing and dispute handling were the other two sections I noticed, also how to divvy it up among the states, but I didn't read those sections closely. As someone else has said, that price is worth knowing what is happening to my vote.
Clones are people two.
Hmm.. That's odd.
...
I thought April Fool's Day was yesterday!
Let's hope they manage to pass it. Common sense is hard to come these days.
Aero
Please stop hurting America -- Jon Stewart
Let's make sure that the paper ballots printed by these machines are not the heat-sensitive paper type. Sun, heat, fluorescent lighting, and age can degrade these ballots fairly quickly. The conspiracy theorist in me says that many big box stores switch to heat-sensitive receipts to reduce customer returns and warranty claims. Should you require a receipt for tax purposes, better keep a Xerox copy.
Los Angeles County uses Ink-a-Vote which replaced those punch cards with ink blot bubbles. Nothing beats paper for vote recounts. The ink takes a few seconds to dry and if you don't hold the marking device completely perpendicular, it can skip marking the ballot.
signature pending slashdot approval
I shouldn't have to point this out, but if you feel strongly about this or other issues before the house, you can
easily write your Congressman from the contact form on the House web site - http://www.house.gov/writerep/
While members of Congress may or may not read Slashdot, they or their staff do presumably read their Inbox, and I've gotten at least cursory replies (usually by snail mail) before.
I've posted the letter I just wrote below as an example, but it's probably more effective if you write your own words rather than using mine:
To the Honorable Walter B. Jones:
I just became aware of pending legislation via a number of technical industry news sites including Slashdot and Arstechnica that I feel is long overdue, H.R. 811: Voter Confidence and Increased Accessibility Act of 2007.
As a constituent of your district, and as a registered voter, the integrity and transparency of election processes deeply concerns me.
Of particular importance and interest to me are provisions which provide for voter-verifiable paper trails in elections, provisions that require random auditing to insure that paper records match electronic ones, provisions that require the software used within electronic voting machines be open to public inspection, and provisions that provide for the emergency use of paper ballots in the event of system or equipment failure.
I realize that these measures create an additional burden on the states, however, I strongly believe they are needed to restore accountability, auditability, and voter confidence lost by the widespread adoption of electronic voting machines.
I urge you to strongly consider voting for this legislation when it comes before you, and to resist amendments which weaken or eliminate the strong provisions on election integrity it contains.
Sincerely,
Stephanie Daugherty
It mandates that the paper records be the authoritative source in any recounts ...
Make the paper record the authoritative source in any and all counts.
If the paper record (it's called a ballot!) is computer-generated, that's ok, as long as the voter gets to verify it, and as long as everything on the ballot is human-readable. (If it looks like a human-readable ballot but the actual vote is recorded in a barcode, that's subject to abuse; the voter has no way to confirm that the barcode matches the actual vote.)
And I don't think there's any good reason not to count the ballots by hand.
I'm sorry, but that would be a pretty stupid system.
There are problems with our representative democracies, but effectively going back to a direct democracy won't solve anything. Representative democracy is a direct cause of the division of labour which is the main reason our civilization is as advanced as it is. Instead of everyone farming their own food, building their own tools, writing their own programs, performing their own surgery, being their own lawyers and making their own political decisions, we divide the labour. I farm, you code, Johnny performs surgery and Karen sues people and everyone is happy doing what they're best at.
The important thing to remember about representatives is not that they should vote AS their constituents, but that they should make INFORMED DECISIONS in the interest of their contituents. That's the labour we divide to our representatives, to inform themselves of what a political decision means or leads to in the future, to inform themselves of the political landscape and the compromises needed to get a certain policy accepted, to see the big picture, to enact long-term policies for the benefit of their constituents, even though it might be bad in the short term. And, most importantly, to take personal responsibility for the votes cast as an elected official.
You forget some things about political decisions that would get totally lost in your suggested system.
1) Most decisions are incredibly boring regarding concerns that are interesting only to a small minority of the population. With direct democracy, everyone would have to spend time informing themselves of the impact of the fishing quotas of the North Atlantic to make the best decision. But seriously, people won't, they'll just press a little vote button on your webpage and not care what was enacted as a result. Ooops, we bankrupted an entire industry, oh well, noone *I* knew...
2) There's a lot of decisions like the one above, with direct democracy, so everyone would have to check your webpage every day, vote on the issues in a sensible manner, taking time away from whatever else they were doing. Why should people do this every day for the rest of their lives? If everyone does not participate every day, then it's no longer the will of the people, but the will of the people who can be bothered to do this every day, or have time to do this every day. Your average working parent who make up the bulk of the taxpayers will not have time for this, making the "decisions" pretty skewed.
3) Everyone does not have access to the internet every day. Seriously, get some perspectives.
4) You may think that the representatives are biased or lobbied into submission or corrupt, but why would ordinary people be any better? If people believe in ads, what's to stop them from believing in every political ad on their TV, comfortably telling them what to vote for tomorrow?
5) Voter turnout here is about 80%. That means that 20% of the eligible population can't be bothered to make ONE decision every FOURTH YEAR. That's not a lot of work. And you want these people to make decisions every day or at least every week? About things they care even less for than high-level general political ideology?
6) Referendums always lack personal responsibility. "It is the will of the people" is a great way to not have to stand for your actions. Part of the job of being an elected official is to make decisions and take personal responsibility for them. If an official makes decisions that the constituents really dislike, he/she will be voted out of office and someone who makes decisions that are better in line with the voters will take his/her place. But if everyone is voting on every issue, who is responsible for the bad ones? What's stopping people from only making badly-informed, short-sighted decisions that benefit themselves financially in the short run, but are devastating to the country in the long run? You can't vote the voters out of office. You could never have a regime-change in your system, with all the benefits that follow those.
I am curious as to why e-voting (however it is spelled) is such a problem? Is the basic technology that different from ATMs which have been around for over 30 years now? Why can't the industry get things straight?
Thanks for your feedback. I really am considering doing this, and so am interested in what actually would happen - ie, how it really would play out.
In response to your points:
1. The idea is that the website would have information/links/arguments etc above the little vote button - so it would be very easy to get educated on the issue before voting. Kind of like how you can read a slashdot thread and then become an expert on an issue. :-)
2-3. I think you missed the point of proxy voting. In it's laziest form, you could assign your proxy/default vote to a "normal" politician, which is effectively what you have today. The benefit ofcourse is that you can change your mind at any time or on any issue if/when you feel inclined.
4. I think that lobby groups lobbying the general population is better than lobbying politicians. Particularly for issues such as media ownership, corporate rights, etc.
5. Having no control and a feeling of helplessness in the existing political system creates much of the current apathy. I think that being able to impact change will increase involvement.
6. Regime change is required when the population wants to go a different direction to the government . This doesn't happen in a direct democracy, so the need for regime change (ie, the big reset button) doesn't exist.
You haven't convinced me that it wouldn't/couldn't work - but I do perhaps need to go into more detail as to how the website would actually work..
This is in no way, shape, or form, the duty of the federal government to regulate voting machines. While I agree with most of the ideas in the bill, they should be implemented at the state or local level. Federal regulation of voting machines is a recipie for disaster.
The "Ten Times" the number of voters is offset by the fact that you have 10 times as many people to count the votes. If India can get by on paper votes, then I'm sure the US can handle it. The major problem is that there's too many issues on the ballot. What's the point of putting someone in office if you can't delegate some of the decisions to them? I like the Canadian system. You vote for your municipal, Provincial, and Federal representatives, and they cast their ballot on all the other little issues you don't have the time to deal with.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
I live in Monmouth County (about 2 miles from Ft Monmouth) - never saw that bumper sticker
"You're arguing for a universe with fewer waffles in it," I said. "I'm prepared to call that cowardice."
Excellent point. Bartender, vacuum tubes... all around!
However, the number of vacuum tubes necessary to provide full voting support for the visually or physically impaired, takes a bit of power, and it's kinda cumbersome the way they fill up the room. So let's strike them off the list.
Likewise, doing reliable scanning of hand marked (and mismarked) ballots in an optical scanner requires either a bunch of hard-coded crap, or a whole lotta vacuum tubes to interpret all the variations of "completely filled in" that the average human is capable of.
Then there's the nasty problem of the hundreds of ballot styles that you may have within a given county, and the nasty complexity of counting all those bad boys between the primary, the almost-certain runoff election, and the subsequent general election. For reasonably large counties, we're gonna need a few hundred volunteers to hand-count them, or a library full of vacuum tubes (and a mountain of wire, and several man-years of programming in the ballot logic, and then there's the referendums that they always add at the last minute...).
I hope they just add pork. With our luck, they'll attach a broadcast flag rider.
Something no one has mentioned yet is validation of choices. When there is more than one choice, it can be validated by the machine before the vote is cast. With a paper only ballot the voter can vote for two or more candidates for the same office. The ballot is invalid and becomes a null vote. Some votes for commisions have a choice of say 4 out of 9. Voting for 3 is valid, but 5 makes the entire list invalid. With e-magic voting, only valid votes are cast. Ever try to make more than one choice on a /. poll?
1011 1010 1101 1100 0000 1111 1111 1110 1110
CTG please note; the voting machines are actually required to do less than an ATM.
1) ATMs are required to have secure communications capabilities, but the voting machines are required NOT to have any communications capabilities.
2) ATM's are required to read a mag stripe, but the voting machines are NOT required to read a mag stripe{or any type of card}
3) ATM's are required to display and print a number of various types of forms and formats, but voting machines are NOT.
So the OS in the category of voting machine can and should have limited capabilities in respect to the OS in the category of ATM.
There may be ten times as many workers to count the votes. I doubt it. You're assuming election staff participation scales linearly.
You're also ignoring the higher class segregation in the U.S., which makes it more difficult to find educated volunteers with free time who live within a poor district. Workers from other districts are more likely to try faking votes.
Even if election participation did scale, though, you'd still have to deal with the sheer number of ballots at certain key bottlenecks. Phoning the totals in is easier with Canada's votes. Error-checking the totals is easier. Changing the voting system to deal with any inefficiencies is far, far easier.
Don't get me wrong. I agree that all these ballot initiatives and minor offices do not belong on a federal ballot. Unfortunately, the U.S. has chosen this micromanagement to offset the two-party system's sloth. It's far too entrenched to change.
Ironically, my CAPTCHA is "mutable".
What you suggest may work, but I think, as you say, that a lot more thought is needed.
Part of the reason that I am "floating" the idea, rather than doing it, is that this system would not be a monopoly - but simply one of many websites in a competitive environment of e-polling stations - each with their own "coalition of independents". Some of these sites would be private, and some would themselves be democratically run - so you could vote out the facilitator if needed.
If voters thought the any particular system (e.g., mine) was in any way corrupted, they could stop voting in members from that system, and starting using another.
Similarly, I would think that many commentary and review websites would spring up with the specific goal of reviewing the independence of such e-polling sites. Much like our current Media Watch program in AU. People could easily visit my summary website, each lobby group's website, and a number of independent review sites before voting.
And my last count-point, is to compare the "corruptability" of my proposed edemocracy system verses your current "democratic" system. Start by counting the number of official "dinners", "lunches", or "functions" that your current representative attends in any given year...
PS. I'm surprised that I've only had negative feedback on slashdot... Imagine if slashdot had a "vote" button at the bottom of each issue relating to a parliamentary bill, and that one (or more) members of parliament (or senators or whatever) would actually vote that way. Obviously there's a lot of the logistics to work out, but doesn't democratic and political power, and the achievability of such a system appeal?
Just scanned the replies (3 or higher, nested). Lots of uncritical praise, very little skepticism. If everyone here can take a breather from the mutual admiration and basking in the collective wisdom, as it were, I'd like to set everyone here straight.
First, and please remember this, the ideal is private voting and public counting. Aka "The Australian Ballot".
Computerized voting machines are fatally flawed. Unredeemable. There is no way to have a fully electronic system which protects the secret ballot as well as ensures the public vote count. Can't be done. Cannot. Be. Done. Period. Despite what all the electronic voting enthusiasts tell you. (I'm looking at you, Avi Rubin.) If you don't understand this, then please stop kibitzing, figure out how our voting systems should work (historically) and get up to speed. Thank you.
Second, this bill relies on "auditing" to ensure the integrity of our elections.
That never works. You cannot test your way to quality. Any one working software knows this. If you're in software and don't, please stop pretending and resign your job.
Additionally, by the time the mistake happens in an election, it's already too late. Too late. Because there's no recourse.
Timothy B. Lee, and other electronic voting apologists, like to mischaracterize the opposition of informed and experienced election integrity activists and experts. I can't guess why. My pet theory is unbounded technolophilia. Others suspect darker motives. Who's to say.
Anyone actually concerned about the health of our democracy would do well to read the criticisms of Holt's HR 811. Here's Beware of the Bandwagon -- A concise list of problems with Holt Bill HR 811 and Help Amend HR 811 to prohibit "electronic ballots."
That is all. I'm happy to answer anyone's questions. I'll check back later.