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Former Red Octane Staff Prohibited from Music Games
In what seems to be some ugly fallout from the Guitar Hero / RedOctane purchase, former Octane employees John Tam and Corey Fong are now legally prohibited from working on rhythm games. Activision has successfully brought suit against the men, arguing that they were using proprietary information gained under employ at the corporation to aid their new venture. As part their work after leaving RedOctane, Tam and Fong had begun working with the Reverb and The Ant Commandos groups on a demo for a dance/guitar game. "The demo incorporated elements of Guitar Hero and StepMania, a free dance game for the PC that supports dancepads and includes a step editor. The pair used it to solicit partners and funding for Lodestone Entertainment, the injunction states. As part of the injunction, the pair is prohibited from distributing or using the demo in any capacity and acting on or disclosing any Activision trade secrets. They are also prevented from taking steps to develop drum-, guitar-, or synthesizer-based games for the next year, nor can they work on any Xbox 360 controllers for Guitar Hero II until six months after the game's release this week. "
Isn't that akin to telling a computer programmer he can't use while loops?
this is madness
Tam and Fong are out of the porn industry too? I guess that leaves only one legal avenue: FPS coding (shudder).
Am I wrong in thinking that this is the result of a typical non-compete (or equivalent)? I know I've had to sign some before.
And to answer some other posts, it's not like telling a programmer he can't use whatever control structures he wants - these guys are specifically prevented from using information they gathered while working for a company in which that information is their entire business.
[DISCLAIMER: This post is a work of satire and should not be misconstrued as a holy text upon which to base a religion.]
Guitar Hero's ability to bring the rhythm game to the mainstream in Western countries made the big corps take notice. A dumptruck of money arrived to the doorstep which is a huge payday for a "mom & pop" publisher like Red Octane (while not strictly "mom & pop", in comparison to a behemoth like Activision, they are.) There's always a price to be paid and this fallout just highlights one of those prices. That's why it's called "selling out."
..."
Considering how "hot" the property is, I'd call it reasonable to say that any corporation that bought this IP would guard it as strongly.
That said, TFA:
"... Guitar Hero II executive producer John Tam and brand manager Corey Fong
Hmmm... how much success-deriding decision-making did these two actually make on GH2, anyway?
More Twoson than Cupertino
I have met John Tam back when RedOctane was marketing In The Groove and about to reveal Guitar Hero at E3. He put the kibosh on certain press groups that he felt didn't kiss his ass enough. Michael Nguyen was a great guy to work with, but when he tried to do some stuff with the website I worked with, who had been long-time partners of ours, John Tam stepped in and shut everything down in favor of trying to get in with the big gaming publications like GameSpot and 1Up. In the end we did some great promotions with RedOctane and probably contibuted significantly to the success of the first Guitar Hero. Early next year, Michael Nguyen abruptly left the company and RO quit talking to us altogether.
They definitely have forgotten their roots. I have very little pity for John Tam.
First off Activision is probably right here. They had a contract, they violated it, they suffer.
However this is the worse move Activision could make, they just jump to the head of the class in "bad producers" beating EA. It's a known quantity, developers will learn tricks at a company and bring it to a new company. This is a dirty little secret in the industry. Three guys quit a company and form a new one, did they magically get the idea for their next game at 6 o'clock on the day they quit? Nope they probably planned it a while before. This always happens and Activision crucifying someone like this is going to get a lot of attention, and this is not what a developer wants to hear of a prospective employer, that the employer will come after you when you leave the company.
Does that mean the two developers were right in what they did? No, and honestly they violated their agreement, but to stop them from working on any rhythem game in the next year is pretty harsh.
Btw last I checked Stepmania is still open source, Activision never bought it, but hey that's what Activision has to prove. They did work with a chief engineer on it (if you'll call him that) for In the groove but that's a different story than using stepmania code which is still public.
They really did screw up with this. They instructed other activision employees (they were managers), to develop a demo for a new game. They then left the company and used that demo that was made while at activision by activision employees to sell as the basis of a new game. If they had done it on their own time with their own resources without involving other activision employees, hardware or software, they would probably have been ok. However, they didn't.
We were all warned a long time ago that MS products sucked, remember the Magic 8 Ball said, "Outlook not so good"
They're only banned for one year. That's pretty common in the games business after you leave a company on bad terms with your boss. They may have already had a non-compete clause in their contract - not uncommon in the games business although I've never signed one and I've worked for EA and SOE.
"Have they broken the prohibition by writing code that goes into a rhythm game?"
You tell us? You can read the intent as well as the rest of us. Why does the inclusion of that magic word "open source" change anything?
Noncompetes are not uncommon, and even in "Right To Work" California, they're seen as a way of avoiding the loss of well-trained employees.
So, these guys spend a little while writing either (1) serious musical instruction software for the PCs and Apples of the world, like GarageBand assistants, or (2) games which don't leverage your typical musical instrument but do develop a certain motor skill to play, like iToy-enabled Sonic titles. Anyone who loves to write code that focus on the smooth and artistic participation of the user should be more than creative enough to walk away from Guitar for a short respite.
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And that lets them decide what the guys are able to do once they've left and are working elsewhere? I dunno about the US but that's not tolerated in the UK.
It probably does, when there would be a question of where and when those ideas were thought up and developed. They already stole from Activision by using their employees and contractors to develop the demo at Activision's expense. What gives them the right to use those projects that were developed on Activision's dime, and how do you know what else they might have had the employees do? The only sure way to keep them from using the product of their theift is to bar them from being able to use any of it for a certain amount of time, while the rest of the industry is allowed to move forward.
...into the realm of mean-spirited lawsuits. Maybe Activision should change the series into RIAA Hero, in which you search the net for file-swappers, and throw down awesome legal whoop-ass on them. I imagine that would suit the joyless Activision drone units just fine.
That RedOctane and Activision didn't even make Guitar Hero, Harmonix did. But they certainly did their share of taking credit.
These two are probably rich, and goofed up trying to make even more money. No pity.
People, RTFA! ALL of you! Don't comment until you have!
grrrrrr......
Apple: We have something to show you Bill, we call it Mac OS!
Microsoft: We have something to show you world, we call it Windows!
Apple: o_O
Can't be. They're unenforceable in California by statute.
6 607.html
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cacodes/bpc/16600-1
16600. Except as provided in this chapter, every contract by which
anyone is restrained from engaging in a lawful profession, trade, or
business of any kind is to that extent void.
The exceptions have to do with breaking up a company. I don't think the acquisition would qualify.
This is probably due to trade-secret knowledge.
This has to be the most ridiculous thing I've heard in a while. As in, what this basically amounts to is that these guys learned something while working at a company and are know bared from using that knowledge. I mean, any non-compete clauses that I've seen means that you can't take anything with you went you leave the company e.g. research papers, contact info, etc. But, never have I seen one that prevents the /reproduction/ of results which would prevent people from working in the same field.
When I worked in industry, I had to learn PHP for a project. Going along the same logic here, I wouldn't be able to program in PHP b/c my former company owns that knowledge.
This is a dangerous precedent. One that needs to be challenged. Otherwise, many others will be screwed as well.
A guitar game isn't exactly the most advanced sophisticated piece of engineering imaginable. You score points if you press the buttopn at the right time. That's about it.
There was already a Lodestone Games. They did work for Sony. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lodestone_Games
They should make a fighting game instead. There's a lot of similarity as both are based on timing, and I have a feeling that the crosstraining would pay off once they can jump back into the rhythm genre.
Your brain is not a computer.
Apologies for AC.
Scenario: My first job
Duties:
- Setup and maintain servers (linux / NT)
- Code websites in PHP
- Update static websites
- Onsite support
- Netowkring (setup new networks, fix and extend existing ones - not the laying of CAT5 part, just the computer side (we had a contractor technician for laying the CAT5))
After being in the position for about 2 months I was talkng to the boss and he mentioned that he had trained the guy I replaced from the ground up. After 2 years the guy, now reasonably good in a couple of areas, had left. He then said I would be signing a non-compete (can't use the above skills) if I was accepted as full time. Needless to say, I spent my last month there seriously considering that: Do I stay for the first fulltime job that came my way.. or do I go back to the dole because if I stay then I won't be able to work *anywhere* in IT for 12 to 24 months if I quit.
In the end, I didn't stay (for other reasons). The company eventually busted and no longer exists.
I can't say I really blame the boss for how he felt.. but.. on the other hand.. me not being able to get a job for 1 to 2 years in IT would have really crippled me. I was 24 years old, and just out of Uni.
Sounds a lot like how Cisco got started. The husband and wife team used the husband's college class he taught to develop the first routers for the school he worked at (forget which one). When they realized how important the devices were to the function of the fledgling internet they went to VCs and began Cisco. The rest is history.
"On a scale from 1 to 10, people are stupid"
So if you worked at a company, took there core technology and started you own business, there is nothing they can do in the UK?
Thats the problem with this SPECIFIC issue. Non-compete are worthless in California. That's not the issue. the issue is they had it developed by activision employees, while on the clock, and took it to get VC funding.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on