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Diebold Goes 0 For 3 In Massachusetts Case

Posted by kdawson on from the help-america-litigate-act dept.

beetle496 writes "ComputerWorld reports that last week a judge denied Diebold's request to block ES&S pact with Massachusetts. This is a follow-up to the earlier discussion here after Diebold contended that the state had erred in selecting the machines of its rival, citing accessibility provisions of the HAVA law. Quoting: 'Diebold's request for an injunction to block the execution of the contract with ES&S was rejected... The judge also denied Diebold's request to have an accelerated discovery process and to keep the state's legal team from viewing internal Diebold documents... "The suit is still there, but they went zero for three yesterday," the spokesman said.' The actual accessibility concerns have been discussed over at the TEITAC listserv, including a few telling observations from experts familiar with accessible voting and at least one state insider."

35 of 119 comments (clear)

  1. Diebold should just by ScrewMaster · · Score: 5, Insightful

    stick to ATMs.

    --
    The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    1. Re:Diebold should just by ScrewMaster · · Score: 3, Interesting

      ... security problems.

      Well, that's what happens when you wrap a bunch of armor plate around a Windows box and call it an "Automated Teller Machine". Oddly enough, that's also what happens when you take a Windows box and call it an "Electronic Voting Machine."

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    2. Re:Diebold should just by Merusdraconis · · Score: 5, Funny

      I love how Diebold's argument is that their competitor's machine isn't accessible enough, like Diebold's are.

      We all know how easy it is to access a Diebold machine!

    3. Re:Diebold should just by ScrewMaster · · Score: 2, Funny

      We all know how easy it is to access a Diebold machine!

      A crowbar will do nicely.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
  2. Score.. by NightWulf · · Score: 5, Insightful

    one for the good guys. It's a start. Just amazes me how in some countries the mere thought of voter fraud creates giant revolutions, while in America you have blatant evidence of fraud, and very few people care.

    1. Re:Score.. by Cylix · · Score: 4, Insightful

      In America, we are just hoping to get a piece of the fraud pie!

      We have dreams too... they are just different then everyone else.

      --
      "You should always go to other people's funerals; otherwise, they won't come to yours." -- Yogi Berra
    2. Re:Score.. by Volante3192 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I used to care. But I think voter apathy is contagious...

      Frankly, I think this country would be better off the sooner we start *really* fucking it up than later. Shock people into realizing their fragile little world is on the brink of becoming glass shards...

      If we just slowly slide downward, people won't notice...like now. It's like gently turning the heat up on a frog in a pot of water on the stove. Need to crank that oven dial to 11 and make froggy jump out and go "DAMN, THAT'S HOT"

    3. Re:Score.. by Kandenshi · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Indeed, it's disturbing and scary how apathetic people are over here about the political system. I for one propose that we immediately

      Oh, crap! The newest episode of "So You Think You Can Dance" is airing!

      bbl

    4. Re:Score.. by value_added · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I used to care. But I think voter apathy is contagious...

      Could be that the options aren't too exciting. There's never a CowboyNeal option, is there?

    5. Re:Score.. by UbuntuDupe · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The reason, I think, is that in other countries -- those ones with all the revolutions -- political corruption is *the* way to get rich. In developed, transparent countries, your livelihood doesn't depend much on which party is in power in the first place. You can still get a job, you can still start a business, you can still buy farmland or a house, etc. While Congress still doles out a HUGE number of special favors that lobbyists fight over, that "corrupt" spending doesn't take such a large *fraction* of the total economy.

      Just my theory... okay, okay, hypothesis.

      --
      Apology to Ubuntu forum.
    6. Re:Score.. by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Frankly, I think this country would be better off the sooner we start *really* fucking it up than later. Shock people into realizing their fragile little world is on the brink of becoming glass shards...

      It's very easy to say that, sitting in your office or bedroom, comfortable with a cup of coffee and your browser pointed at Slashdot ...

      Revolutions are ugly, ugly things, and so are the circumstances that create them. Anyone who seriously wants things to get much worse, much faster, is either a psychotic, or just isn't thinking things through. (Usually the latter, of course.)

      --
      The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
    7. Re:Score.. by lawpoop · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I think you're right. In America, our system still works well enough that people's daily lives aren't yet too much impacted by fraud and cronyism.

      There's a quote I encountered somewhere in my anthropology studies that says "People don't protest when their bellies are full." Everyone loves to say that nobody in America cares, but when the shit starts hitting the fan, you will witness a sea change in the US, on the scale of the 1930s. The kindling is building up, sooner or later some event will spark the whole thing aflame.

      --
      Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
      -- Pablo Picasso
    8. Re:Score.. by WindBourne · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Well, kidding aside, I tend to think that you are correct. All in all, the choices have been 2 lamers; a dem and a rep.. Worse, most of these are crooks.
      1. Reagan was a traitor, liar and a crook. Worse, his policies have damaged America like no other had, until W..
      2. Poppa bush (a president that I liked) may also been part of the reagan fraud. I would like to believe that he was not in the Iran Hostage deal (where the republicans cut deals with the Iranians to hold the hostage until after the election, which is treason in any country including USA).
      3. Clinton was probably not that bad, but the truth is, that he lied under oath. But to his credit and poppa bush, they at least had worked towards balancing the budget. Had W. simply stayed the path, we would be lowering taxes right now, AND with zero deficit (but a large reagan debt).
      4. And W. well, the man IS the worse pres of all time. The amount of corruption makes Nixon and Reagan's ppl look like 2 bit players. The lies and deciet is amazing. The fact that he is trying to now hide nearly all of his doings from congress is absolutely staggering. His deficit makes Reagan truly look ameutuerish.

      And now, we are looking at Gullliani (a real winner there; multiple divorces; claims to be liberal then tries to turn conservative), McCain (Another Gulianni), Romney (who is backed by the Bush brothers that should scare EVERYBODY). And the dems are not much better.

      I do have to say, that I am intrigued by Obama, but the problem is that he does not have thay much experience. All in all, I will probably vote Libertarian as I have for so long (save the last 2 elections in which I missed voting in 2000, and voted dem in the last one for the first time ever).
      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    9. Re:Score.. by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Except there's no guarantee of "getting back on track" with a revolution, at all. In fact, the odds are pretty well against it.

      We got extraordinarily lucky once -- we could very easily have turned into the first in the long, sad series of colonies that have won their independence only to sink into a morass of dictatorship and self-inflicted poverty. The fact that we didn't is due to the group of great minds that happened to gather around the idea of independence at that particular moment; it's not the usual situation. And internal (as opposed to colonial) revolutions are usually even worse. France? Check. Russia? Check. Iran? Check. Honestly, it's hard to think of an internal revolution in a major country that's turned out well, ever.

      --
      The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
    10. Re:Score.. by loganrapp · · Score: 3, Funny

      Obama talks a good talk. I think he would make a great first black president - one that does very little, thereby doing very little to make people nervous about having elected a black president. Chappelle made a joke about being the first black president, but in essence he's right - it's a very "hot" proposition. Elect one, let him do very little for four to eight years, then next time around, a black president with real chops won't have to jump those hurdles. I mean, really, a president that does nothing? It would be nice for a change, anyway.

    11. Re:Score.. by Telvin_3d · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If, "Malevolent Dictatorships" really do not last, it is only true from a historical perspective. From the point of view of the people living through them, I bet they drab on and on and on. After all, dictatorships have certainly proven to be a lasting think in much of South America, Africa and the Middle East. They haven't always been the same dictator for long, but the dictatorship goes on.

      Actually, I can't think of a single example in the past half century that a people got fed up with a dictator, threw him out of power (with or without outside assistance) and then were still a democracy 10 years later.

  3. Obligatory by Dunbal · · Score: 5, Funny

    In Soviet Russia, YOU defraud the Government!

    --
    Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
  4. The Diebold Distraction by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ES&S is the corporation which made the machines used to steal^H^H^H^H^H carry out the Presidential election in Ohio in 2004.

    I don't know why we're congratulating ES&S on its victory over Diebold. Why is one black box maker any better than another? Let's use a sensible system instead.

    1. Re:The Diebold Distraction by EvanED · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's completely arbitrary and based on a naive world view. If Diebold is bad, their competition HAS to be good.

      To be fair, hasn't that been the US's foreign policy for, like, half a century at least?

      "The enemy of my enemy is my friend"?

      So it's not just /.ers screaming "M$! OMG TEH EV1L!11!!"

    2. Re:The Diebold Distraction by Volante3192 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      We're not congratulating ES&S, as much as being happy that justice is working. The judge rejected all of Diebold's whiny claims. ES&S is irrelevant to that point.

  5. Diebold is the SCO of politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    Diebold is the SCO of politics

  6. Of course... by Arceliar · · Score: 3, Funny

    Why do I get the feeling that according to Diebold things went more like 4:1 in their favor?

    Oh...right... well, *ahem* let's just hope their court case continues to..uhhh... die boldly?

  7. Re:Possible name changes for Diebold by UbuntuDupe · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If a corporation gave me 35% of its profits every year, before I asked, regardless of what I ever did for it, I think people would characterize that relationship as "me asserting myself over that corporation".

    --
    Apology to Ubuntu forum.
  8. Massachusetts by erroneus · · Score: 4, Interesting

    "The Clue State"

    Or maybe just call it "Massa-clue-setts"

    First OpenDocument. Now this. Love it.

    1. Re:Massachusetts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yeah, um, Massachusetts is the state that thinks that anything with blinking lights on it is a bomb, forcing them to evacuate Boston over some signs with blinking lights and batteries on them.

      Then there's the Big Dig, where a tunnel with 2-ton tiles which were held up with bolts that were simply GLUED to the roof fell and killed someone.

      Not to mention that if you go looking for any Open Document files from the Massachusetts government, you won't find any. They were supposed to switch over to open formats completely starting in January, 2007.

  9. Isn't it time for open source? by Toe,+The · · Score: 5, Insightful

    There are several open source voting machine projects on SourceForge. WTF is our problem for not getting our governments to use the auditable machines?

    Or what about open source governance? Isn't it time to get rid of the institutions that are based on those of our pre-human ancestors? How about a little technology in our government?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_source_governanc e
    http://www.metagovernment.org/

    We have everything we need.

    1. Re:Isn't it time for open source? by Rob+the+Bold · · Score: 3, Informative

      There are several open source voting machine projects on SourceForge. WTF is our problem for not getting our governments to use the auditable machines?

      ES&S has an x86-based iVotronic machine that does run Linux. The project was shelved in 2003. It's got a touchscreen (with working Linux driver), pushbuttons (with working driver), audio-out (working under Linux) and a printer option. I bet you could compile several of those to run on that platform.

      --
      I am not a crackpot.
  10. Same Sh*t, Different Flies by lagartoflojo · · Score: 5, Informative
    Are we supposed to be cheering because Diebold got rejected? From here:

    Thom Hartmann stated in CommonDreams.org (Nov 4 2004, [32]): "About two years ago [Jan 2003], I wrote a story for these pages, "If You Want To Win An Election, Just Control The Voting Machines," that exposed how Senator Chuck Hagel had, before stepping down and running for the U.S. Senate in Nebraska, been the head of the voting machine company (now ES&S) that had just computerized Nebraska's vote. The Washington Post (1/13/1997) said Hagel's "Senate victory against an incumbent Democratic governor was the major Republican upset in the November election." According to Bev Harris, Hagel won virtually every demographic group, including many largely black communities that had never before voted Republican. Hagel was the first Republican in 24 years to win a Senate seat in Nebraska, nearly all on unauditable machines he had just sold the state."
    As we would say here, ES&S is the same shit with different flies. Until the law changes, it doesn't matter if you vote on a Diebold machine or on an ES&S machine, you will still have not idea what really happened to your vote.
    1. Re:Same Sh*t, Different Flies by edwardpickman · · Score: 2, Funny

      This is exciting news. I wonder how long it is before an unknown hacker gets elected President? Hey an unknown redneck got elected it's about time a hacker got the job.

  11. On the brightside by edwardpickman · · Score: 3, Funny

    Diebold takes the mystery out of elections. It might be a more efficent use of campaign funds to stop wasting the money on political ads and just use it to bribe Diebold.

  12. Re:first post by RyuuzakiTetsuya · · Score: 2, Funny

    the computerized system that orders posts shows that no sir, you are somewhere closer to 2nd or third post.

    I wonder if it was wise for /. to outsource some parts of slashcode to Diebold.

    --
    Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
  13. This by Quzak · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Who ever wins, we lose. Pure and simple. Wake up folks.

    --
    Support your local school shooter, give them your firearms.
  14. Protest - vote autocratic! by Mal-2 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If nobody on the ballot seems acceptable, write in someone who is. That could be yourself, if you are eligible to hold that office. Or arrange with a small group of like-minded people to use the same write-in protest candidate.

    There's your CowboyNeal vote. Too bad it won't win, unlike on /.

    Mal-2

    --
    How is the Riemann zeta function like Trump rallies? Both have an endless number of trivial zeros.
  15. What about PWDs? by beetle496 · · Score: 2, Informative

    1) I find it highly offensive and irresponsible that the discussion on /. for this case (both this story and the one before) has automatically presumed that the disabled community is being used as a witless proxy for larger battles.

    2) Having read and digested the entire nuanced thread, particularly posts like this and that, I have come to the reasoned conclusion that disability access is being used as a proxy for larger battles. I also duly note the similarly with the Massachusetts fight over ODF, but disavow that this is a pattern. Even if Peter Korn of Sun thinks differently. <*sighs deeply* />

    I would like to quote a well connected individual who this all into perspective for me a week ago:

    It is curious that the original inquiry sources a New York Times company product. The NYT Co. and the Sulzberger family that controls it have been highly skeptical in the advancement of independence for people with disabilities. The latest criticism and skepticality from them regards the cost and reliability of accessible voting machines. The NYT co. product below fails to explain that this is a simple contract dispute and does not involve access issues. Diebold believes it met the requirements of the RFP more than ES&S and therefore should be given the contract rather than ES&S.

    The difference of course is that the Diebold system for access is completely electronic and would need to blend the results with the paper optical scan ballots while the AutoMark simply prints a completed paper ballot and no blending of results is necessary. The Diebold DRE is a lot less expensive than the Automark, which is their biggest selling point.

    This is likely the last big contract outstanding and could add to the sale price of the election division when Diebold decides to sell it. The new CEO already has said in Fortune magazine that the election division is not a long term strategic fit for the company.

    And I initially thought he was just being cynical!

    Not that anyone at /. cares, but here is a link to Voluntary Voting System Guidelines which both the ES&S and Diebold products fail to completely satisfy.

    --
    I paid the going retail price for a Windows screen reader and got a free Unix computer!
  16. Backfire by Chris+Burke · · Score: 2, Interesting

    And like SCO, maybe this suit is set to backfire on them?

    They tried to get an injunction to stop the contract going through so as to damage their opponent, but they also tried to keep the feds from being able to view their internal documents in the process. Well they didn't get their injunction, and now the feds are going to have access to those documents during discovery. Do these documents contain things they really don't want anyone to know? It's happened before, but are they afraid that even more documented examples of willfull malfeasance be aired in court?

    I know, wishful thinking, and it's not like the ones the state went with are any better. But I'm a hopeful guy! The SCO case might even end this decade!

    --

    The enemies of Democracy are