Microsoft 'Wait and See' On Motion Controller

CVG is reporting that Microsoft has developed a 'wait and see' attitude toward the concept of incorporating motion controls into Xbox 360 games. Despite the popularity of the Wii, and the inclusion of the system in the PlayStation 3, Microsoft's Chris Satchell stated in an interview with the website that the company is still cool on the idea. Says Satchell, "There's no point building the hardware if nobody really wants it ... One thing I'm not certain of is that third-parties are super-excited about that motion control - or at least they're not showing it with the games that are hitting the shelves yet ... We're yet to see a really good game on Wii that really says 'OK that control kicked ass'." This is at odds with statements from Peter Moore from earlier this year, who stated that the company does have motion control plans in the works. CVG will have the complete interview up soon, which might give more context to his statements.

Comments

Hello, LucasArts...

[icthus13]

"We've yet to see a really good game on Wii that really says 'OK that control kicked ass'." Lightsaber battles, anyone?

Re:Hello, LucasArts...

[Canthros]

Red Steel was a launch title with (apparently) an okay sword-fighting interface. IIRC, you play a yakuza member.

Re:Hello, LucasArts...

[Toonol]

"The Godfather", which is a game I would have never thought I would enjoy, uses the motion control incredibly well. It's a GTA-clone, and in general, the wiimote is your right hand, the nunchuck your left. You can grab people, hold them with one hand while punching with the other.. then throw them against a wall, grab them again, squeeze your hands together to choke the life out of them... it's incredibly immersive. And it's not a kiddy game, it's not a collection of mini-games, it's not a tech demo, it's "real game" enough to even satisfy a sixteen year old boy.

Re:Hello, LucasArts...

[UbuntuDupe]

Zelda and Red Steel. My memory of what Zelda was like is unreliable, but I still play RS regularly, so I'll answer there.

First, the RS demo ads were ... a bit fraudulent. You don't swing the wiimote to block *and* swing as you would a real sword. The way it actually works is, it transforms your wiimote swing into horizontal, vertical, or diagonal pre-scripted attacks. It can also detect you raising, lowering, and turning the blade, but that's purely cosmetic.

The part where it shines is blocking. Assuming you hold the nunchuck in your left hand, if you want to block, you just raise your left hand as if to shield yourself. It's a very instinctive reaction to someone swinging a sword at you, which allows them to tighten the required reaction time without making the game much harder. (There are sword combos too, but these are mostly unnecessary and take too long to master.) You can also swing the nunchuck down when the enemy is vulnerable to break his sword, which can win you faster than cutting him up.

What I don't understand is why they don't do more with the sword. As you can see in Wii Sports -- Baseball/boxing, it's very good at detecting vertical tilt. And when pointed in the general direction of the sensor bar, it's trivial to detect horizontal angle. Ditto for stabbing. So, there's quite a bit to work with, even without trying dead reckoning.

Re:Hello, LucasArts...

[PatrickThomson]

Red steel was mediocre at best. The sword-fighting used motion matching to map about half-dozen wiimote motions onto the same number of sword moves you'd do traditionally with button combos. I consider that a failure to use the remote's capabilities.

um, what?

[AdmiralWeirdbeard]

There's no point in building something if noone wants it.
ok, that's true.

But...wait what?

Clearly people want it, and clearly people have been finding the technology to be adding to the gaming experience on the wii.

What he really should have said is, 'well, nintendo is already doing a pretty good job of locking that down, so we're not going to bother competing'
Its one thing to have been all skeptical before it came out, but to claim now that nobody wants it is just plain bullshit. So you'd rather compete with the PS3, fine, its a more natural competitor anyways. Just try not to smear any more bullshit around than you have to, mmmkay?

Re:um, what?

[Osty]

Clearly people want it, and clearly people have been finding the technology to be adding to the gaming experience on the wii.

Comparing what Microsoft might do to the Wii is a little disingenuous. I suspect any motion-sensing controller for the 360 will look much more like Sony's SIXAXIS (or Microsoft's own old Sidewinder Freestyle Pro) than Nintendo's WiiMote. Add to that the fact that this is inherently an add-on and add-ons generally don't do well (the only mid-life controller-functionality change I can think of that actually caught on was the PSX Dual Shock), and it really doesn't make much sense for Microsoft to do a motion-sensing controller right now.

It makes more sense for Microsoft to bide their time and spend the next couple years researching the technology rather than try to rush out a "Me too!" motion-sensing controller. The 360 is complementary to the Wii, and has the PS3 beat on controller functionality (rumble beats controller-form-factor motion sensing any day -- I'd much rather have rumble feedback for a racing game than the ability to turn the controller like a steering wheel, for example). The next Xbox is probably only 3 years away (2010), which gives Microsoft plenty of time to find the right combination of technologies for a truly next-generation control scheme (how about an EyeToy/Xbox Live vision camera input system that actually works?).

Re:um, what?

[Blakey Rat]

Actually, this asshat saying that technology X is not desired by the public, when one of his main competitors is currently making a killing marketing technology X is disingenuous.

You're reading it completely wrong. Saying "there's no sense in building something if nobody would buy it" doesn't imply that Nintendo is selling something that "nobody buys." That wouldn't even make sense.

He probably said it to highlight that, at the time the Xbox 360 was conceived and designed, motion-sensing controllers were considered something that nobody would buy. And, honestly, you can't blame Microsoft for thinking that. Nintendo did a great job of creating a market for motion-sensing controllers that simply did not exist two years ago.

The other statement he makes about motion-sensing controllers is that third party developers aren't embracing it. And honestly, that also seems like an accurate statement to me... so far all the 'killer apps' on the Wii are made by Nintendo. Microsoft doesn't operate the way Nintendo does; while they make first-party games, the console requires third-party games to be successful.

I agree with the grandparent that, strategically, Microsoft's already in a pretty good position. It's been shown that the "killer Cell graphics" on the PS3 aren't much better than the Xbox 360 graphics have been the entire last year, and ditching the rumble-pack for a half-functional motion-sensor was a bad move on Sony's part (IMHO.) Microsoft can afford to bide their time right now and wait for the Xbox 3 (whatever it'll be called) to introduce whatever new controller model makes the most sense.

Re:um, what?

[AdmiralWeirdbeard]

I dont think I'm reading it wrong at all. He referenced a technology, and said that nobody wants it. He may have been specifically talking about a possible motion sensing 360 controller, and in that I agree, there would be little point. However, he goes on to disparage the wii-mote, and the very idea of a motion-sensing controller. In no way do i think his comments on this front are justifiable in the face of the popularity of the wii.

As for 3rd party coverage, i just think he's being disingenuous. Obviously Nintendo is making the big hits for the moment, but is that really a shocker? They innovated, and have obviously had the most time to play around with the tech. the best launch games all made by Nintendo? *GASP* Do people bitch out the 360 for Halo, Gears, etc being M$ titles? no. whyso for nintendo? because it was a marketing speech. Also, there are certainly good 3rd party games for the wii, and considering the solid console sales, i fail to see how they could do anythign but get better.

Yes, nintendo and xbox operate differently. Nintendo has survived explicitly by not *relying* on 3rd party dev. They put out a product, and they make a profit on it.

Please understand, I'm not ripping on the 360. I love the 360. I see no reason for the 360 and the wii to be mutually exclusive. But its silly for an xbox mucketymuck to be coming down on the wii the way.
Clearly, the 360 is in a good position, but its not really competing with the wii as much as it now is with the PS3. A simple 'well, its an intriguing idea for gaming, but we'll be focusing on what we've already been doing so very well until we see a demand for it from us' both would have sufficed and been a much more professional way to conduct himself.

And yes, the ps3 controller looks like bs. I'm glad they did that instead of xbox.
also, how can movement in 3 dimensions be construed as being more than 3 axes? is one of them smission?

Re:um, what?

[Tom]

so far all the 'killer apps' on the Wii are made by Nintendo. Which just might be because Nintendo had access to dev systems long before any 3rd party did?

Not to mention that you ignore the fact that the only killer app for the original Xbox when it was released was Halo - published by MS. They're not that different, you see?

No contradiction here...

[xxxJonBoyxxx]

Microsoft's Chris Satchell stated in an interview with the website that the company is still cool on the idea. Says Satchell, "There's no point building the hardware if nobody really wants it..." This is at odds with statements from Peter Moore from earlier this year, who stated that the company does have motion control plans in the works.

To not have any plans would be foolish, but to rush into a project like this would also be silly. So...I don't see the contradiction.

Microsoft's classic business strategy has always been to extend the best ideas of the first wave and sell an improved version of the idea to the masses anyway. (Just ask the first generation of Macs, Netscape, Lotus, etc.)

Re:No contradiction here...

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft's classic business strategy has always been to copy what everyone else is doing and sell a buggy version of the idea to the masses which they promise to eventually improve.

No one really wants it?

[Frag-A-Muffin]

from TFA:
"There's no point building the hardware if nobody really wants it..."

What part of the 6 million Wiis sold to date says "no one wants it"? I know I sure want it. My friends want it. My friends' parents even want it! Unless he's just talking about the "hardcore" market again?

Re:No one really wants it?

[tzhuge]

The hardcore demographic wants it for the name. Revolution -> Wii was actually marketing genius

Re:No one really wants it?

[Rakishi]

Just because people want the Wii does not mean people really want the controller. I mean, by that logic just because you buy a Dell means that you want all the spyware/crapware that is loaded on by default.

His statement is meant as I see it to say "do people who are interested in an xbox really want such a controlled including both the consumers and game developers." The Wii is if nothing else not geared to the same market and it forces such a controller on developers. Neither of these implies that xbox owners (or even Wii owners as I said above) want this controller or that developers would incorporate it into games of their own will.

Re:No one really wants it?

[HappySqurriel]

I would say that he is probably correct in saying that no one wants a motion controller for the XBox 360... Developers don't want it because it would be an add on and practically no consumers would have it, and Consumers don't want it because so few game developers will support it at all.

Re:No one really wants it?

[MooseMuffin]

My girlfriend wanted one since she heard about it. We couldn't find one at release and I finally managed to get a hold of one to give her in February. We had a blast with Wii sports for about 2 hours, but I've never played the thing a second time and she got bored of it about a week later. Shes not interested in Zelda (I pointed out that makes her crazy) and she can't find a 2nd game worth buying, and frankly I can't either.

The Wii has a lot of hype and a lot of potential, but MS is mostly right on with the "We're yet to see a really good game on Wii that really says 'OK that control kicked ass'" quote.

Re:No one really wants it?

[rnmartinez]

Does she want to sell her Wii to me? LOL
I havent been able to find one and I hear all these stories that its not all that good but then I hear that it is incredible, I dont know what to believe. Anyone played Dragonball? It looked like it had potential to be fun.

Re:No one really wants it?

[Frag-A-Muffin]

Just because people want the Wii does not mean people really want the controller. I mean, by that logic just because you buy a Dell means that you want all the spyware/crapware that is loaded on by default.

Let's be honest here. It's the controller that *is* the selling feature of the Wii. If you don't think so, then you've obviously never played it.

Re:No one really wants it?

[SetupWeasel]

If people didn't want the Wii controller, why the hell would they buy the Wii? Wii Sports is a hit. Wii Sports is driving sales. Wii Sports is controlled almost entirely with motion control unique to the Wii Remote.

People want the controller, because it and only it can play Wii Sports. I personally think the pointing aspect of the Wii Remote will be the real gem of the system. I can't wait to see it sell when that is used effectively.

Re:No one really wants it?

[Osty]

she can't find a 2nd game worth buying, and frankly I can't either.

Try Rayman, Warioware, Trauma Center, or Cooking Mama. You have to go a little off-beat with the Wii, and the best use of the Wiimote right now is with short minigame-style gameplay.

If you don't find Warioware Smooth Moves enjoyable, then you're both crazy! It's the game that really shows off what can be done with the Wiimote.

Re:No one really wants it?

[Toonol]

Well, it's the controller and it's the price. Both are big factors.

Re:No one really wants it?

[Chris Burke]

Certainly price is important, and anyone who says otherwise (looking at you Sony and fanbois) is insane.

But the Wii is selling much better than the GameCube (about 1/4th of GC lifetime sales already) which was $200, and it's selling to people who wouldn't have considered a game console before regardless of the price. Clearly it's the controller that is making the Wii.

Just without the price, even the controller wouldn't be enough to draw a skeptical non-gamer (or skeptical gamer for that matter).

Re:No one really wants it?

[Ambassador Kosh]

I have the dragonball game and I have had a LOT of fun with it. So far it is the best fighting game I have played on any platform. I am not actually a DBZ fan, I have only seen a few of the episodes but the game is fun to play. It takes a while to get the hang of the controls so do the training stuff first. However the fights are a lot of fun, you have huge areas to move in, you can fly, move super fast and the attacks go way over the top. Some of the attacks can even destroy a planet. :)

It is just a lot of fun to play. The violence in it appeals to me more then the realistic violence in other games, this games violence is more like an acme cartoon. It is nice to be able to punch someone through a hill.

It is a game that you will probably have fun with, just know that it does take a while to get the hang of all the controls you can do.

well for one

[Vexor]

The 360 wasn't designed from the ground up to take advantage of that kind of control scheme. At best they'll make a controller that's useful for a small handful of games and completely worthless for every current title. Granted they may be able to work in some kind of update distribution with the use of X-Box Live so current games can take better advantage of a setup like that. Final Verdict: I wouldn't hold my breath for a better design then what the Wii is already pushing and at a considerably cheaper price.

Re:Awesone games: Wii Sports. Others: None.

[AbsoluteXyro]

Yeah....

We all know Wii owners certainly AREN'T playing

Wario Ware
Rayman
Trauma Center
Excite Truck
Madden 07
Elebits

Cuz, you know, Wii Sports is the only game on the Wii that puts motion controls to great use. Yup. Keep telling yourself that.

Re:Awesone games: Wii Sports. Others: None.

[Pitr]

Um... Raving Rabbids? Elebits? And Zelda makes liberal use of the new control as well. I think "gimmick" is a hell of an understatement.

Oh, and the new Sonic game is pretty slick too.

New moderation option

[DrYak]

Then again, the Wii pisses me off.

And thus you qualified for the new :

-1, overused not funny anymore joke

moderation.

Tennis. Oh My God. I Must Have This.

[argent]

Look, I just Do Not Play 3d computer games. The best computer games in the world leave me cold, I love watching the kids playing them, but the controls are just too damn hard, and the games are designed by people who think taking advantage of the sucky controllers is a reasonable way to make higher "levels" harder.

Half an hour of Wii's Tennis game and OH MY GOD, I MUST HAVE THIS GAME. NOW. I haven't been able to play tennis for real since I injured my knee, but...

* It gave me the kind of workout I used to get from playing tennis.
* Waving the wand around as if it was a racquet Just Worked.
* Playing my usual agressive net game Just Worked.
* It took me 5 minutes to get a Mii that looked like me.

Damn, how long is it going to be hard to get a Wii? Even the sucky name doesn't spoil it.

Microsoft: if I didn't already know that you guys wouldn't Get A Clue if you did a Clue Mating Dance in the middle of Clue Mating Season covered in Clue Pheromones I'd be jumping up and doun making a monkey of myself yelling at you in the hope that you'd Get A Clue.

Re:FPS controller for masses!

[7Prime]

I'll agree about the button thing. I can see where they're going with it, but couldn't they have given me a smaller "B" button, like on the gamecube, maybe above the A? I dunno... I think its a huge issue, though. Then again, I'm one of the people who actually understands where Apple is coming from with the one-button mouse thing, at least for laptops.

The only problem with Wii FPSs is that developers have gotten off on the wrong track with the turn/look conrol system. Bounding box turn/look systems are terrible, and have the potential of making the WiiMote even more clunky than a dual-analog setup. But I came up with a method that would totally illiminate the need for the bounding box system, by having the motion sensor in the nunchuck be your turn/look controls. Twisting your wrist clockwise/counterclockwise turns your vision right/left, while tilting your wrist up/down tilts you head. It's sorta like turning a steering wheel, so it would be fairly quick to pick up, and leaves the right hand to do only aiming and shooting.

The even bigger advantage is that it isolates movement to the left hand. Since the analog stick is also on the nunchuck, the left hand is then in complete control of movement and turning, while the right hand deals with everything related to shooting. This would be the first control system in which all motion could be controlled by one hand, leaving the other hand free to deal with everything else.