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Utah Bans Keyword Advertising

Eric Goldman writes "Last month, Utah passed a law banning keyword advertising. Rep. Dan Eastman, the Utah legislator who sponsored the law, believes competitive keyword advertising is the equivalent of corporate identity theft, causing searchers to be (in his words) 'carjacked' and 'shanghaied' by advertisers. He also takes a swipe at the EFF, dismissing its critique of the law as 'criticism from the fringes.'"

35 of 271 comments (clear)

  1. Damn Straight! by PixieDust · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Because God knows that if I'm searching for "New Cars" I damn sure don't want to see any advertisements about car dealerships, finance companies, or anythign like that. Hell I don't even want results returning cars stuff. Why cant they just give me my sex in a new car porn and be done with it?!

    Stupid advertisers.

    Seriously, wtf is wrong with this picture?

    1. Re:Damn Straight! by sumdumass · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I think the idea is that if your searching for "Sam's Used Cars" you get get a bunch of links going to "Bill's Car and Plumbing Shop" before you get what you were looking for.

    2. Re:Damn Straight! by Skreems · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Showing ads related to your search term on Google or Yahoo hardly counts as "spyware".

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    3. Re:Damn Straight! by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Showing ads related to your search term on Google or Yahoo hardly counts as "spyware".
      --
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    4. Re:Damn Straight! by ChrisGilliard · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think the article was talking about key words that are trademarked being bought by a company that does not own the trademarks. Your example of a car dealership would not apply because a Toyota dealer sells Toyotas, etc. I don't think anyone has a problem with that. But, what if you ran a small grocery store that delivers online in your neighborhood and Walmart moved in and bought up all of the searches for your store on Google. Your competitor is really stealing your brand recognition that you spent many years building. Is this fair?

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    5. Re:Damn Straight! by baeksu · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Thank you for the links, those were an interesting read.

      I still think that these legislation is not wise.

      First, I do not think it is the job of the state to protect the success or effectiveness of a private entity's pr-campaign.

      Second, this type of legislation would put a burden on the sellers of advertisement space. Would they have to verify the legal owner of each possible trademark that a keyword could refer to?

      The link uses the example 'pontiac', and how it should point to General Motors website. What about 'pontac', 'pontiac dealership' or 'pontiac repairs'? It quickly becomes very difficult to draw the line on where the rights of a trademark owner end, and free competition for eyeballs begins.

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    6. Re:Damn Straight! by BakaHoushi · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What of the idea to have "Truth in Online Advertising?" So, for example, if I enter "Metal Gear Solid" into a google search, I don't get sent to www.DonkeyShow.com? There should be SOME relevancy between a keyword and the site's content...

    7. Re:Damn Straight! by Tony+Hoyle · · Score: 3, Insightful

      bought up all of the searches for your store on Google

      How are they going to do that exactly? Bribe Google programmers to always return 'walmart' in a search for your store?

      All google does is put a well marked advertising link at the top or right of the search. Your store will still be returned as normal by google.

      If you don't like it, pay google for advertising.

    8. Re:Damn Straight! by psykocrime · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So, for example, if I enter "Metal Gear Solid" into a google search, I don't get sent to www.DonkeyShow.com? There should be SOME relevancy between a keyword and the site's content...

      Unless you click the "I'm Feeling Lucky" button, you don't get "sent" anywhere when you do a Google search. If an ad happens to be displayed on the page for www.DonkeyShow.com, and you don't think it's relevant... DON'T CLICK ON IT!
      How's that for easy to understand? Suggesting that putting that ad there is somehow stealing from Metal Gear or infringing their rights is absurd.

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    9. Re:Damn Straight! by psykocrime · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So you would be OK if Microsoft purchased all searches for RedHat, SuSe, Ubuntu, Mac, etc.... And every time you tried to search for any of those Items in any search engine you got nothing but links to Microsoft Vista? This law only protects Registered trade marks. This kind of redirection from one brand to another only happens when someone at the search engine has told the search engine that RedHat, Suse, Ubuntu = Microsoft.

      That's ridiculous and shows a complete misunderstanding of the situation. We're talking about keyword ads, not search results. If you Google for Red Hat you'll still find www.redhat.com, www.fedora.org, blah, etc. in the top search results, regardless of what ads Microsoft buys.

      Besides which, I don't think Google makes it possible for one company to buy every position in the "ads" area to the right of the screen. I've certainly never seen the same company's ad repeated twice in that section. So presumably if MS did buy a keyword ad, their ad would just appear *alongside* anybody else's ads for that keyword... including Red Hat, Inc. if they chose to buy one.

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    10. Re:Damn Straight! by wtansill · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Also, though I think this particular hypothetical situation works out okay, I'm not at all convinced that there are no situations where this would be damaging. Nor am I convinced that this hypothetical situation would be especially ethical on walmart's part just because in my opinion the damage wouldn't be that bad (the cost-benefit tradeoff is also unfortunate: if I'm right, nothing happens, fine. If I'm wrong, trademark abuse just forced a small vendor out of business. Whoops.)...
      You're likely right, but please tell me -- what situations or constructs you can think of that are universally fair? Regardless of legislative zeal, once cannot mandate "fairness". There will always be something situation that someone considers unfair.
      --
      The contest for ages has been to rescue liberty from the grasp of executive power. -- Daniel Webster
  2. Great... by ZxCv · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Because passing a stupid law like this in Utah will actually have any real effect on the use of keyword advertising.

    The only real effect it will have is making things harder for advertising companies, by forcing them to filter out the dolts in Utah before serving up an ad.

    This is nothing more than some 2-bit politician trying to make a name for himself, and won't do any good whatsoever for any of the citizens that were responsible for putting his sorry ass in office in the first place.

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    1. Re:Great... by AaronW · · Score: 3, Insightful

      All Google has to do is ban anybody from advertising keywords from within Utah... I am sure a lot of Utah businesses which sell online will scream bloody murder and the law will be repealed. Hell, just searching on "Mormon" brings up three ads, one from the church. I guess that should be banned too.

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    2. Re:Great... by Gr8Apes · · Score: 2, Insightful

      But does google even have to care if it's not located in Utah?

      IIRC, Utah cannot regulate an out of state company nor intrastate commerce, so this law would apply to Utah based companies only.

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  3. Thanks! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I didn't know that going to google.com was like going to the Oracle at Delphi. A spiritual endevour to commune with raw, unaldulterated universal truth. I was under the horribly mistaken impression that google built, maintained an operated a tool that many people found useful, and all they asked as payment was their users left over attention. That leftover attention then being sold to those who might find such vast quantities of unused attention valuable. Thank you for disabusing me of this notion, and helping me realize that google, is akin to a public service. God forbid that a person going into someone else's place of buisness be subjected to offers from affiliated businesses. I much prefer the Mormon position of people being denied adaquate legal healthcare in a commercial health establishment based on particular whims related to imagined magic.

    1. Re:Thanks! by paesano · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "I much prefer the Mormon position of people being denied adaquate legal healthcare in a commercial health establishment based on particular whims related to imagined magic."

      How can you expect reasonable people to accept your opinion on anything when you spew such uninformed, bigoted nonsense. Apparently, you know absolutely nothing about Mormon attitudes on health care, but yet you feel the need to comment on it. I can hear the snickers of thousands and thousands of Mormon doctors, nurses, and other medical professionals. That comment is right up there with other gems such as "Mormons have horns" and "Mormons aren't allowed to dance." Come visit LDS Hospital, the University of Utah Medical Center, or the Huntsman Cancer Institute sometime. You'll see lots of Mormon doctors and patients. If you are referring to a certain high profile incident in the news a few years ago, just remember that the doctors on the other side of the argument were most likely Mormons (as a high percentage of doctors in Utah are Mormons).

    2. Re:Thanks! by networkBoy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Wait...
      They do have horns though, right?

      On a more serious note, is this even enforceable? I mean my server is not in Utah... That or is Google going to simply de-list Utah and its businesses?
      -nB

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  4. My two explanations by michaelmalak · · Score: 5, Insightful
    This is so obviously wrong the reasons it is wrong may not be obvious, so here is my attempt at three concise explanations:
    1. Old-fashioned thinking says that Google is the new newspaper. This is wrong. It's the new concierge. If you go to a hotel and ask the concierge for reservations to Morton's and he says, "ah, but here is a better steakhouse that my buddy runs" -- can you imagine that being illegal?
    2. Old-fashioned thinking says that the world is hierarchical. That's just post-Aristotle Western thinking. According to this new Utah law, if you want to find competitors to Jiffy Lube, you must first identify the superclass or super superclass (species and genus, respectively, in Aristotalean terms) and type that into the search engine. Typing in a specimen (i.e. Jiffy Lube) to find siblings is called associative lookup in computer science parlance. I'm wondering when the law is coming that bans content addressable memory.
    3. Old-fashioned thinking says that there is a bright line between paid and unpaid search engine placement. Even if an advertiser is not paying for Google AdWords, you know they're paying for search engine optimization -- just not directly to Google. Will SEO be the next thing made illegal, since it is a form of advertising that has no explicit "this message paid for by..." message? And if not, do we prefer SEO (i.e. Google spam pages) to AdWords?
    1. Re:My two explanations by Rakishi · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Then someone should tell that to the people who've been printing phone books for the last few decades. Or have you never actually opened up a nice thick paper phone book with its orgy of keyword based advertisements?

    2. Re:My two explanations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful
      1. The concierge in your senario is not being paid. A more appropriate example would be if (as someone else pointed out) the concierge calls up his "buddy" and makes the reservations and that buddy pays him.

      2. This law, from what I've gathered, isn't saying that if you google "Jiffy Lube" then no competitors can come up in the search results, it's just saying they can't come up in the keyword ads. So your associative lookup is all good.

      3. Old fashioned thinking also says that a trademark is something that one company can own. I know IP is not so highly regarded here on /. but it is something respected in the real world. A company should be able to protect it's trademarked name in advertising.

    3. Re:My two explanations by Telvin_3d · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yeah, but then again Google has never claimed to be the white pages. For that matter, their stated business model of making money off of people looking things up sounds a lot more like the yellow pages to me. Just because a legislator in Utah has decided that Google should act like public service/reference manual doesn't make it so.

  5. No, they won't have to filter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    If your adserver is not located in utah, then you don't have to filter jack shit. Interstate trade is federally regulated.

  6. Interstate commerce by iamacat · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It has been horribly overused and corrupted, but surely laws pertaining to Internet have to be decided on national or, better, international level. With 50 states passing conflicting laws, soon no employee of a tech company will be able to travel across state lines without risk of arrest.

  7. bullshit by nanosquid · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The Utah legislators are confusing trademarks with owning a word. The purpose of a trademark is to identify a product uniquely, not to give a company control of a word.

    Advertising a competing product when potential customers search for a trademark is exactly what trademarks were supposed to accomplish.

    1. Re:bullshit by Brickwall · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Advertising a competing product when potential customers search for a trademark is exactly what trademarks were supposed to accomplish.

      How the heck did this get modded informative? Trademarks were established so that the time and effort a company spends establishing its brand won't get hijacked by someone offering a substandard product with the same name. How useful would it be if you went to the store to get "Aspirin", and there were 10 different versions with the same name, but half of them were weaker and less effective products? Yes, you can always read the ingredients but look at a can of generic corn vs., say, Del Monte. I've found through experience that the Del Monte version is always crisper and sweeter (meaning it was probably canned more quickly from fresher corn) than the generic version. However, both labels will read "corn, water, salt". If the generic maker was able to copy Del Monte's tradename, buying canned corn would be a crapshoot.

      Now, you may say "canned corn, big deal", but what if the "Michelin" tires you paid for were actually retreads or substandard tires? Not only do you get ripped off by paying the premium price, but I don't really want to risk a blowout at 60 mph.

      There is a ton of marketing research - from both ad firms and university professors - that shows that brand names are useful to consumers. The brand provides information and assurance about a certain level of consistency and quality to the consumer. For example, having tried Hunt's, Aylmer, and generic ketchup, I'll stick to Heinz. I have tried some generic products (e.g. hot dogs - for some reason I have food on the brain tonight!) that I find perfectly acceptable to their brand name versions. Here's another - I take a generic version of metformin to help control my diabetes; it's less than half the price of the brand name version, and it works perfectly well. But I've also tried many generic products (rough toilet paper, inferior laundry detergent, lousy frozen food to name a few) that were completely disappointing.

      But those are inexpensive products where the cost of testing them is a few bucks. When I upgrade to an HDTV, it's going to be a Toshiba or Sony or Samsung or LG; it's not going to be an Avanti. When I spend $2,000, I want the assurance of a brand name (quality, warranty, likelihood the maker will be around in five years).

      That's what brand names are supposed to accomplish, not to make it easier for competitors. Sheesh!

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    2. Re:bullshit by asninn · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Really? I thought the purpose of trademarks was to allow you to build a brand identity without people freeloading off of your good name - for example, if you create a new drink and call it, oh, "Coca-Cola", then others aren't allowed to create cheap/inferior versions and also calling them "Coca-Cola" in order to trick people into thinking that what they're buying is your product, thus hurting your business when those people are dissatisfied with the drink's quality.

      Of course that doesn't mean that advertising competing products when people search for trademarked names should be illegal (in fact, the very idea that it should be is so whacky that I'm not surprised that this is from Utah of all places), but I don't think being able to advertise competing products is the *purpose* of trademarks or the reason why they were created.

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  8. Because illiterate tools are what /. is all about: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "Specifically, the law creates a new intellectual property right called an "electronic registration mark," defined as a "word, term, or name that represents a business, goods, or a service."

    This is a law which hopes to prevent businesses, especially those who made a useful tool to aggregate left over attention, from telling interested people about competing offers and businesses. This law is quitiscentially unAmerican in the sense that it's opposed to the free exchange of ideas, and to obtaining a competative advantage. It's positively feudal, and anyone who for a moment entertains a notion of legitimacy of such a law should be shot with a musket. Think of what the people get, the for the low low price of momentary curiosity which they may or may not act on a free useful tool, rather a variety of them, and a snap-shot of competing offers. The public domain of ideas belongs, wait for it you malignant asshat, the PUBLIC. Considering the fantastic deal the public is getting, via free sweet tools, ceeding yet another area of the public market place of ideas to dipshits that appearently give money to Mormon whores (the bad kind), those dipshits owe us all one motherfucking assload of everlasting awesome. A cure for cancer, cheap fusion power, something really magnificent for a new dominion over what we already collectively own: The knowledge that Plumber Bob is a plumber, and Dan's Plumbing offers the same services, maybe better, and maybe at better prices.

    Ignorance is not a virtue, and the idea that a privaleged few should be able to force it on the larger world is truly insane.

  9. No, you miss the point by kripkenstein · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Because God knows that if I'm searching for "New Cars" I damn sure don't want to see any advertisements about car dealerships, finance companies, or anythign like that.
    No, that isn't the issue at all. You have apparently not bothered to read TFA (I know, I must be new here). Keyword advertising is 100% legal after this bill; anyone and everyone can advertise using keywords like "New Cars". No problem there.

    The issue the Utah legislators are against is (the following example is fictitious) Sony buying keyword advertisements for the "XBOX" keyword - in hopes of getting them to buy PS3s instead. The idea behind the law is that, in this example, Microsoft own the XBOX trademark, and by Sony buying ads for "XBOX", they are 'benefiting from another person's trademark'. Or something like that. To be more specific, it might be the case the Sony pay more, and people typing "XBOX" see ads for Sony, and not Microsoft. The legislators see that as "hijacking a trademark".

    Now, this is an interesting issue. In essence, this is a case of one entity making use of anothers' trademark for profit. Which does seem a little 'off', at least if you value trademarks (I do, and I disvalue copyright and patents, at least in their current incarnation in the US). However, as pointed out in the past, the real issue isn't what is 'fair', but what is possible. Implementing this law is a lesson in futility. In other words, Utah don't get it. But they are not the complete morons implied by most people's reaction to the Slashdot title for this story.
    1. Re:No, you miss the point by l3prador · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Actually, I think the example given in the article about Google already doing this outside of the US and Canada is a pretty good demonstration that this is, in fact, possible:

      Try it yourself. As I write this, if you search for "BMW" at www.google.de -- the German version of Google's site -- you get only ads that are friendly to the car company. If you search for "BMW" on www.google.com -- the U.S. version of the site -- the first ad that appears in the right hand column is for Infiniti. The Trademark Protection Act merely extends the same rights already enjoyed by mark holders throughout the rest of the world to Utah.

      If you haven't read the article, I'd recommend it. This is one of those rare cases when an article is actually well thought-out and well written.

  10. Re:Utah again. by k8to · · Score: 2, Insightful

    What about existing trademark law prevents it from being applied here?

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    -josh
  11. Some types of keyword ads should be stopped by vux984 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    There's keyword advertising, and there's keyword advertising. I don't have an issue with google showing sponsored ads off to the side... but not embedded within the results.

    But the greatest scum of all keyword adverts is in the vein of 'gator' et al, that rewrote webpages and literally embedded ads for competitors right within a businesses own website's content - a least from the end user experience perspective.

    The new 'gator' is that 'intellitext' crap, and frankly its just as bad, perhaps worse because its coming from the website instead of being the result of malware I can remove. (Sure I can generally block intellitext crap with FF using adblock with some effort, but that's beside the point.)

    I hate playing 'dodge the link with my mouse' with 'legitimate' website content, blogs, and so forth. I would support a law that banned that sort of page rewriting to embed advertising links.

    I've never met a user that found those ads anything but annoying. (Especially on older systems where running the javascript and building the popup would take several seconds, like my old G3 ibook, a delay triggered by simply letting the mouse glide over a link by mistake... not click on it, just drift over it)

    1. Re:Some types of keyword ads should be stopped by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I'd disagree: if websites want to make themselves unusable through excessive advertising, it's their funeral and the law shouldn't intervene. However, in the case of Gator / eZula / etc. where the page is being altered by external software, that certainly should be banned. Also, adware should identify itself in all popup ads it produces, so there is no doubt as to the origin of an ad.

  12. Re:Because illiterate tools are what /. is all abo by Firethorn · · Score: 4, Insightful

    By the sound of it, it doesn't actually ban keyword advertising, it just limits a bit.

    Returning Bob's Hardware in a search for 'Dan's Hardware' based off from the word 'hardware' might be ok. 'hardware' is a rather generic word, after all. Walmart buying a link based off of 'Target', 'Sears', or 'K-Mart' would not be.

    Still, I could easily see this law being struck down by a judge with a wide interpretation of the 1st, as long as no actual misrepresentation is made.

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  13. What about comparison ads? by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 2, Insightful

    There are hundreds and hundreds of advertisements that go out every day in every media where they specifically identify their competitor and bash them in their ads. Like in, "Acme Garage changes oil for 9.99$, Superior Garage charges 19.99$". There are store brands of products that mimic a copytighted product. For example, the store brand mouth wash Equate specifically says, "Same active ingredient as in Scope(R)TM". Why leave them all out and bring only the electronic ads into the purview of the law?

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  14. How to comply by sfraggle · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Suggestion to Google on how to comply with these laws: add the ability for trademark owners to disable targetted advertising to their trademark, as the law requires. However, do it by completely removing that trademark from the search index. Anyone searching for that trademark should get a blank page. We'll see how many companies really make use of this feature. If you don't want to play fair, you should take your toys and go home, I say.

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