Water Found in Exoplanet's Atmosphere

anthemaniac writes "Astronomers have long suspected that water should exist in the atmospheres of extrasolar planets. Now they have evidence. Water has been discovered in a planet called HD209458b, which was previously found to have oxygen. From the article: 'The discovery ... means one of the most crucial elements for life as we know it can exist around planets orbiting other stars.' But don't go looking for little green men. You might remember HD209458b as a 'hot Jupiter' that boils under the glow of its very nearby star."

Comments

Straw poll:

[Anonymous Coward]

This discovery only reinforces the possibility of life outside our solar system; we've only discovered a few extra-solar planets, and at least one among those we've seen has life. So:

How many people now think that ETs of some form do exist?

Re:Straw poll:

[jimstapleton]

Actually, in areas of greater pressure (deeper under the clouds), there is still the possibility of life I would say.

Another thing is, we often make the following assumptions in terms of life forms, and we can be ceratain of none of them:

1) requirements of Carbon and Oxygen
-- Sulphur, Silicon, and any far-left or far-right non-noble element can handle the requirements here (namely something that can form long complex structures, and something highly reactive that nonetheless has stable compounds wherein it exists)
2) The life will be based on nucleic acids (RNA/DNA) and amino acids (proteins)
-- While these are more simple structures that could perform their tasks while remaining stable, there are other structures that could potentially store data and perform structural/chemical tasks.

Re:Straw poll:

[chuckymonkey]

I think that most scientists are aware of that and what they're actually getting at are planets that could support life similar to our own. Life that we could recognize and interact with, perhaps even coexist with in some unknown future. There are many unproven forms that life can exist in, however we probably wouldn't recognize them if we saw them so we naturally stick with what we know.

Re:Straw poll:

[CogDissident]

Besides, whats the use of finding a space buffalo if we can't kill it, eat it's flesh, wear it's skin, and turn the land it used to live on into farmland?

Re:Straw poll:

[Rei]

Look at CO2 (a gas) and SiO2 (silica, a solid).

That's a misconception; the sort of silicon-based life that we're talking about are not precisely the same as carbon chains. In carbon chains, you typically have C-C-C-C-C... etc. In the equivalent silicon (actually silicone) molecule, you have Si-O-Si-O-Si-O-Si.... etc. Si-Si-Si... etc doesn't chain well, but Si-O-Si-O.. chains indefinitely. Compare a hydrocarbon-based lubricant with a silicone-based one, hydrocarbon solids (plastics) with silicone ones, etc. There's been a lot more research on the former so far; the latter can likewise be functionalized.

A few differences in the chemistry:

1) C-C-C-C-C... chains can freely rotate, while Si-O-Si-O... chains need a specific "joint" to do so.
2) Carbon more readily double and triple bonds, although removing Os from the Si-O chain can create similar (but not equivalent) effects.

There are all sorts of biologically interesting silicon compounds. The silicon equivalent of methane is silane. It's even more flammable than methane; it's hypergolic with our atmosphere (burns on contact). Its giving up of its hydrogen could be seen as equivalent to ATP and its phosphorus. Longer "silanes" scale like longer hydrocarbons -- their vapor pressure decreases the longer they get (silanes with 2-3 silicons make for good wood sealants). Zeolites are silicates (your typical silicon solids that you were picturing) but with various metal ions interspersed with them; they're excellent, highly selective catalysts. Probably the most biologically interesting (to me, at least) are silanols, which exist naturally in Earth's oceans (and probably predated life), and can form all sorts of catalytic groups, membranes, etc.

Re:Straw poll:

[exp(pi*sqrt(163))]

> Because we know it exists in at least one location

Which tells us nothing except that it is possible for life to exist. The fact that life exists here tells us absolutely nothing about the likelihood of life arising apart from its being greater than zero because for obvious reasons we are sampling from a biased distribution, being alive ourselves. :-)

> Do you have any idea how many billions of stars are in our galaxy, and how many billions of galaxies are in the observable universe?

As it happens, yes. But I also know that combinatorial explosions can generate numbers vastly larger than the number of things in the physical universe and the number of ways of arranging matter is described by a combinatorial explosion. Who knows how many of those combinations involve life, but it has the potential to be incredibly small. Small in a way that the size of the universe doesn't touch in bigness.

> If you are saying, "no one knows for sure. Don't say you're sure the chances are good if you can't prove they are," then that is certainly valid.

Looks like we're actually in total agreement.

Do your research...

[otacon]

I live on HD209458b you insensitive clod.

Criteria for Life

[SuperKendall]

But don't go looking for little green men. You might remember HD209458b as a 'hot Jupiter' that boils under the glow of its very nearby star."

Where there is hot water, there are saunas. Where there are saunas, there are tourists. Thus this remote planet has life, and most likley drinks with little umbrellas (or "snotzwathctls" as the local dialect probably refers to them).

Of course!

[Anonymous Coward]

Why, just the other day I said "Hey, remember HD209458b"? and everyone was like "Oh yeah, that's the 'Hot Jupiter', right?"

Re:Of course!

[Anonymous Coward]

Why, just the other day I said "Hey, remember HD209458b"? and everyone was like "Oh yeah, that's the 'Hot Jupiter', right?"

At least it wasn't 'Great Personality Jupiter.'

Boiling water? No problem!

[phyrebyrd]

Just think of all the marine life that lives in and around the thermal vents on the sea floor... Temperature isn't much of a challenge if you're determined enough!

Aaaaaahhhhhh......

[ricky-road-flats]

You might remember HD209458b as a 'hot Jupiter' that boils under the glow of its very nearby star.

Oh, *that* HB209458b...

"Hi, I'm Troy McClure..."

[sczimme]

"You might remember me from such planets as HD209458b, the 'hot Jupiter' that boils under the glow of its very nearby star, and from Earth, the deadliest planet of them all."

Read this book: Rare Earth

[oni]

There is a great book that anyone interested in this question should read: Rare Earth.

It is a very well-researched book that goes into great detail on all the different terms of the drake equation (and a few extra terms) and shows what the best scientific evidence suggests are the actual values for those terms. The bottom line of the book is that single-celled life is probably incredibly common, it's probably everywhere. Life that's big enough for you to actually see is probably pretty rare. Intelligent life is very rare, and technological civilizations are practically a miracle.

Re:Read this book: Rare Earth

[Anonymous Custard]

So we are very very unlikely to ever find any life that we can talk to.

Kind of like on slashdot.

Re:Perhaps

[Viper Daimao]

and if we're unfortunate it will be the Shadows and Goa'uld.

Re:Perhaps

[inviolet]

I dunno, if some of the worst of the current political trends continue, we'll end up being the Vorlons instead.

Vorlons? More like Vogons. You know, the fat, bureaucratic bullies who write horrible emo poetry and eventually demolished the Earth in order to build a useless bypass.