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Neutrino Experiment Restores Standard Model Symmetry
perturbed1 writes "A Fermilab press release announced that MiniBooNE's latest results have salvaged the Standard Model of particle physics. The experiment ruled out the simple neutrino oscillation interpretation of the 1990s LSND experiment. Neutrinos have a tiny amount of mass, required by their oscillations, as observed in solar, atmospheric, and reactor neutrino experiments. Combining this mass with the LSND experiment's results required the presence of a fourth but 'sterile' neutrino, breaking the 3-fold symmetry of particle families in the standard model." Nice to see some good news out of Fermilab after the CERN debacle.
Can Fermilab next restore Newton's model? That speed of light thing is hampering processor speed and space travel.
Space travel I can understand, but don't you dare try to pin processor speed limits on the speed of light. If you want a fast computer, you can do it just fine under the present model. Simply compress 1 kg of matter into a black hole of radius 1.485e-27 m. In the 1e-19 seconds before evaportion due to Hawking radiation, you can perform 5e50 operations per second. It only gets you 1e32 total operations on 1e16 total bits, but it's fast. If you can't do that, you only have yourself to blame.
(Yeah, yeah, borrowed from here.)
Apology to Ubuntu forum.
This isn't exactly what most scientist would consider "good news". We already know that both the standard model and the general relativity are wrong or at least incomplete, but they continue to pass every experiment, including this one...
The reason they keep trying is because they hope to finally find something different from what those theories predict: this will probably open a very exciting period of progress for our understanding of the universe.
More infos: start from unsolved problems in physics and click links.
There's a hidden treasure in Python 3.x: __prepare__()
The Los Alamos results seemed fishy, so I think most particle physicists expected the sterile neutrino interpretation to be disconfirmed.
"Nice to see some good news out of Fermilab after the CERN debacle"
So it would be bad news if an experiment showed something you were hoping you wouldn't get? That isn't science. Science is being happy when your experiment successfully tests the hypothesis, regardless of whether it confirmed it or not. A success is in gathering more data, a failure having the experiment give no useful information.
Neutrino oscillations are a process by which different types of neutrino can turn into each other. The elementary particles (quarks, leptons and neutrinos) all come in three "families". We are made of the lightest family: up and down quarks (which are the constituents of protons and neutrons) and electrons. Members of the heavier families are unstable and decay rapidly into lighter particles.
However, it turns out that the weak nuclear interaction can mix quarks of different families. Down quarks turn out to be somewhat mixed with strange quarks of the next heaviest family due to this effect.
For a variety of reasons, it was natural to ask if neutrinos were mixed in the same way. In particular, this could account for the unexpected deficit of electron-type neutrinos from the sun. Various terrestrial experiments were done in the 80's and 90's to try to detect this effect, including LSND.
Neutrino experiments are extremely difficult and subject to all kinds of backgrounds, making them highly susceptible to errors in calibration and calculation. The LSND results were at odds with everything else that had been seen, but the stakes were high and no one wanted to give up on a result that might be right although it was not widely believed by people outside the LSND collaboration itself.
The experiment described in TFA has tried to independently reproduce the LSND results. This is somewhat easier to do than the original experiment because you can design things so that you are most sensitive to the most interesting region. They have failed to find the effect that the LSND result would predict if it was due to neutrino oscillations, and it is likely that this is the end of it.
The article never says so, but the most likely cause of the LSND result is some error in analysis, particularly in accounting for backgrounds and instrument effects. This kind of thing happens, particularly in neutrino physics, where the background processes are fundamentally many orders of magnitude stronger than the effects you are looking for, and have to be designed out with the most excruciating care.
Blasphemy is a human right. Blasphemophobia kills.
You said it yourself: "this will probably open a very exciting period of progress for our understanding of the universe."
or other people as well think that the magnet explosion was no accident? I bet that now CERN scientist are going to retaliate by aiming their neutrino beam at FermiLab trying to mess with their experiments.
Go to the MiniBooNE web site and guess whether the photomultiplier tubes used to detect the event are either 1520 or 1280.
This could explain an error. At least in their web site, as the correct answer is 42, as everyone knows!
Maybe Computers will never be as intelligent as Humans.
For sure they won't ever become so stupid. [VR-1988]
Cosmology predicted that quite some time ago as myself and collaborators show in this PRL paper from over a year ago. And there were many other papers with similar conclusions as well... The only problem is that particle physicists never believe cosmologists! :)
You're right, it wasn't an accident, but don't look to Fermilab. Who has the most to lose if we finally figure out the ultimate secrets of the universe? That's right...
God. The forbidden Tree of Knowledge in the Garden of Eden was just the first barrier. Exploding magnets are just God's way of saying "Discovereth not the Higgs Boson, for in what day soever thou shalt discover it, thou shalt die the death." Of course, the scientists are all like "Yeah yeah, that's what you said about the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, and that worked out OK. We'll take our chances." And God is all like "Grrrr! Frickin' arrogant humans! Why did I give you free will, anyway?" And the scientists are like "What-ever, you won't be such hot shit after we've bagged the boson, dude!" and God is like "Oh crap, you're right! I'm so scared! Look at me shaking! And oh by the way, have you checked the accelerator alignment lately? Muhahaha!"
You've just given a meta description of string theory.
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
I say it's bad news because the standard model is freaking boring.
I still hope to see real interstellar travel before I die (not sticking a bunch of corpsicles in a solar sail powered coffin and sending them out into deep space for a million years), and considering I'm 30 now, I hardly find that likely if the standard model turns out to be right.
Honestly, for those of us who want to see the human race EVER reach the stars (before we succeed in creating another Dark Ages or get smashed by a meteor), the worst news we could possibly get is that the standard model is spot on.
The land shall stone them with the bread of his son.
Neutrinos are the required result of nuclear fusion within the Sun. They are not charged particles and they will travel through a light-year of lead. Now that Sudbury has been scrapped, there remains a severe deficit of neutrinos coming from the Sun for the nuclear fusion model. We're only seeing about one-third of what should be there for that model. But what else do we know? To quote Wallace Thornhill in his upcoming book, "The Electric Universe":
And ...
The issue remains: if neutrinos are being generated on the Sun's surface and if sunspots appear to us as dark, cool spots relative to the rest of the Sun, then what, if anything of any relevance, is happening within the Sun's core?
And why does the solar wind continue to accelerate as it passes all of the planets? Why should we suppose any mechanism for accelerating charged particles *other* than an electric field centered at the Sun?
And how is it that the Sun's corona is 100x hotter than its surface if the core is supposedly the source of the energy?
Why did the Ulysses probe observe a million mph flow of electricity into the Sun at its south pole? We're told that it's just not important to the bigger picture, but why is it there in the first place?
Why has man had such trouble generating a controlled nuclear fusion reaction here on Earth? Is it possible that our incorrect assumptions about the Sun are affecting our ability to objectively evaluate methods for nuclear fusion?
To mainstream astrophysicists, these are *individual* problems that will eventually be worked out so that we can continue to believe what they want -- that the Sun is nothing more than a thermonuclear reactor at the core. But, when you look at the whole picture, and when you understand the role that plasma plays within the universe and how plasma operates within the laboratory, the evidence is overwhelming that the Sun is being powered externally and electrically. The fact is that there remains no stellar evolution theory that has not been directly observed to be violated. We willfully and perhaps ignorantly choose to believe that stars "evolve" over time from one place on the HR diagram to another even though we've seen stars jump all over it over short periods of time.
It's testament to the fact that nobody is listening to the EU Theorists that nobody here is apparently aware that Don Scott delivered a scathing review of the Sudbury Experiment in his recent book, "The Electric Sky". The problem with that experiment was that it was not an experiment. It drew conclusions based upon assumptions about how many neutrinos were leaving the Sun because it assumed that the Sun must be generating so many neutrinos within its core. It wasn't until a later experiment that it was determined that these oscillations could not be used to explain the neutrino deficit because the oscillations were not happening in just one direction. I presume that this announcement is a confirmation of those results.
If we are to learn from our mistakes, this should be a lesson to laboratory scientists around the world that astrophysics, curr
"A man cannot begin to learn that which he thinks he already knows." --Epictetus, 1st Century A.D.
the proton has a "diameter" = x.
what is the mass =y of a blackhole with diameter =x?
how fast ( % of c) do u need to accelerate a proton so that it
would have mass =y (relativity)?
if the accelerated proton has mass x,
is it a blackhole then?
Firstly nobody really believed he Los Alamos results principly because some of the collaborators removed their names from the original results paper and published another paper in the same journal issue in which they voiced considerable concern over the validity of the results. If you can't convince your own collaborators it is very hard to convince anyone else.
Secondly neutrino oscillations are not in the Standard Model and the problem with the LSND result was that it could not be reconciled with the other neutrino mising results from SNO and SuperK. So while this results is still very interesting it simply confirms that a simple neutrino mixing EXTENSION to the the Standard Model may be sufficien without needing to invoke more exotic alternatives.
I submitted this story to Slashdot, but sadly, I see that my original wording has been altered by kdawson. Unfortunately, I do not have a copy of my original post, but I would like to clarify what I *meant*. First of all, I do not consider this "good news" -- but "good results." The MiniBooNE team clearly worked very hard to get here so a big "Congrats" goes out to them. You could not rule out the LSND result, just because "we did not expect it" and "found it fishy." The unexpected results are sometimes the best ones and in science, remember: one scientist's junk is another scientist's signal. The CMB discovery story is the best example to this. Secondly, the neutrino mass indeed does not belong in the standard model, which already several people have pointed out. What belongs in the standard model is the number of lepton families. It is good to see it confirmed that no "sterile" neutrino is needed to explain the results. Yes, cosmologists have had some say in the subject matter already, but it is good to see it confirmed. This is, afterall, how physics is done. "I told you so" is never a good thing to say in physics. You never know what comes out next afterall. I do not believe that Standard Model has been salvaged by this result nor do I want to live with the Standard Model for the rest of my life. There is already plenty of evidence that the Standard Model is not a sufficient model for explaining all the physical phenomena we observe and soon, I hope soon we will have evidence what that new "something" might be. At this point, I would also like to take this chance, as a physicist who works at CERN, to reply to the highly excited conspiracy theorists: Calm down! CERN, Fermilab and other physics labs are not part of corporate America! Yes, of course, I want CERN (and my experiment, in specific) to be the one who finds the Higgs, but I am willing to bet all my fortune, little as that may be, on that Fermilab's calculation mistake was not intentional. Yes, we, physicists are a funny bunch, with lots of things to argue and get excited about. But, we do have a common goal in life, to dig deeper into the mystery of the universe. And a common understanding -- that the truth *will* reveal itself and you can not determine when it does.