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Price Optimization Software Big in Retail Business

prostoalex writes "Even if you spent only a single day in an economics class, you're probably familiar with a concept of supply and demand. The Associated Press is running an article on retailers employing mathematical models for price optimization, where some products are priced higher to generate higher margins, and some are discounted to generate larger volumes even at the expense of per-product margins. DemandTec, Oracle and SAP are some of the companies producing those mathematical models for retailers around the country, with AP listing some of the pricing optimizations employed currently."

121 comments

  1. Quick - someone patent it ... by tomhudson · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ... after all, "price optimization" has been done for centuries, but now its "with software" instead of a paper and pencil, or a calculator, or a gut feeling.

    Seriously - this is NOT new. Not even in the software field.

    1. Re:Quick - someone patent it ... by symbolic · · Score: 4, Interesting

      They can optimize their little hearts out, but it won't change the fact that I counter this with my own optimization strategy- I always look for the best deal, period.

    2. Re:Quick - someone patent it ... by AlXtreme · · Score: 4, Insightful
      So you would be willing to search for a cheaper paintbrush, taking maybe an hour of your time, even if it only saved you a dollar?

      I would also look for the best deal, but only if in doing so I'd save more per hour than I would make if I were working instead. Personally, I don't enjoy wasting my time running from store to store. Even if I'd save 50 dollars, it probably won't be worth it if that meant shopping 8 hours to find the cheapest store.

      Just my two cents.

      --
      This sig is intentionally left blank
    3. Re:Quick - someone patent it ... by nelsonal · · Score: 4, Interesting

      This means that you're more likely to get a sale at a price you like than without price optimization. Take for example you and your MBA gadget hungry associate. Say both of you want a LCD screen and the company's cost is $500. If they have a single mark up it might be $700, which Mr. MBA would purchase one and you none, but if they can sell to him for $800 and you for $600, both of you buy a TV and the store makes more (even though they made less in your sale it was better than no sale at the single price).

      --
      Degaussing scares the bad magnetism out of the monitor and fills it with good karma.
    4. Re:Quick - someone patent it ... by no_pets · · Score: 3, Interesting

      As someone that quit IT to go into retail I will say that price optimization will benefit retailers looking for your business more than other types of consumers.

      A specialty shop with unique products can just slap a large margin on a product as long as the price is fairly well justified and do fine, but when catering to a clientèle working with higher volumes, low margins and aggressively price conscious consumers then wringing every last possible penny out of them works.

      Everyone knows that by and large in the U.S. that Wal-Mart is the price discount king. And even if you are really watching prices and comparing a consumer will still believe that they are getting the best deal at Wal-Mart. But I know that a significant number of their products are name brands packaged into their own unique size. Of course at Sam's Club things have to be bought in bulk for a discount but comparing product X at Wal-Mart in a 13oz size verses the same product X at a local competitor in a 20oz size can appear to be the exact same product for significantly less than a competitor although the price per ounce is a better deal at the competitor.

      I sell pet food and I'll say that Ol' Roy is one of the cheapest priced pet foods per bag. Sure there are some others cheaper per bag at feed stores which may or may not be a better deal. I know some feed stores that use loss leaders to beat Ol' Roy. But, when comparing Ol' Roy to premium pet food the price per feeding will beat Ol' Roy most every time. So, buying a $15 bag of feed per week is more expensive than buying a $26 bag of feed per month.

      --
      "A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." - Shepard Book Quoting Malcolm Reynolds
    5. Re:Quick - someone patent it ... by harlows_monkeys · · Score: 3, Interesting
      What I do is default to my local Wal-Mart Supercenter (which also happens to be the 2nd nearest store, so is most convenient). On average, their prices easily beat Safeway, Albertson's, and the small regional chain store that is a little closer to me than the Wal-Mart. Furthermore, they are indeed "everyday low prices". This lets me easily memorize Wal-Mart's prices for most of my regular items.

      If I happen to be shopping at one of the other places, it is then easy to see if their current sale price beats Wal-Mart's everyday price. If so, and I need the item, or can reasonably store it, I will buy at the other store. If I notice an advertised sale on something at one of the other stores, I might go there for it.

    6. Re:Quick - someone patent it ... by ehrichweiss · · Score: 1

      He didn't say he was jumping over dollars to pickup dimes. He said he searched for the best deal; not that he searched for an hour for the best deal on piddly items. Ten minutes on the Net saved me $75 on my DVD recorder and I only had to drive to the place to pick it up less than 5 minutes away. Eight hours seems ridiculous unless you're shopping for a car or house. Hell it shouldn't take 20 minutes to call the stores in town to verify pricing.

      --
      0x09F911029D74E35BD84156C5635688C0
    7. Re:Quick - someone patent it ... by tomhudson · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "I sell pet food and I'll say that Ol' Roy is one of the cheapest priced pet foods per bag. Sure there are some others cheaper per bag at feed stores which may or may not be a better deal. I know some feed stores that use loss leaders to beat Ol' Roy. But, when comparing Ol' Roy to premium pet food the price per feeding will beat Ol' Roy most every time. So, buying a $15 bag of feed per week is more expensive than buying a $26 bag of feed per month."

      It depends on which "Ol' Roy." If you buy the cheaper, cornmeal-based products, you'll definitely spend more, and be picking up more poop - than the non-cornmeal ones - look for the bag with 27% protein, 21% fat - you'll be picking up 2/3 less poop, and it actually works out a LOT cheaper per feeding (note: when you have a St. Bernard, a Newfoundland, and a big mutt, having to buy 100 lbs. of dog food a month instead of 300 lbs. a month makes a big difference in what comes out the other end, but its a lot of sh*t no matter how you look at it :-)

    8. Re:Quick - someone patent it ... by jlarocco · · Score: 1

      The extra $15 a week I spend on groceries at Safeway is well worth the cost of not being around people who look like they want to marry their cousins, teenagers who think they're gangbangers, and 16 year old single moms. The Safeway is also cleaner and the staff friendlier.

    9. Re:Quick - someone patent it ... by raftpeople · · Score: 1

      How do you think WalMart prices it's products? They are not ALL cheaper than safeway or any other store (I have seen numerous examples but no I can't cite them, I just logged it away as something interesting I noticed).

    10. Re:Quick - someone patent it ... by superwiz · · Score: 1

      Well, if you ever walk into a university, you'll know that partial derivatives are beyond most business majors. So you can't expect them to try to find extrema points when multiple variables are involved. They need a "damn computer" to do it. This, of course, begs the question "is this really news?"

      --
      Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
    11. Re:Quick - someone patent it ... by njh · · Score: 1

      Which is why rebates are so effective - they separate customers into those who are money-poor/time-right who send in the coupons, and those who are money-rich/time-poor who don't bother.

    12. Re:Quick - someone patent it ... by billcopc · · Score: 1

      Well yes and no. Most rebates take too long to "process". Sure, you can get $50 back in the mail on that new N-router, but it will take 3 months. If you're money-poor, then you probably don't want to wait 3 months for that money, so you go across the street to the other shop that doesn't have a mail-in rebate, but charges $10 less.

      Take for example a nice 24" LCD display that retails for about $769 in small shops. Big Box Inc has it priced at $969 but offers a $300 mail in rebate to clear them out, bringing the final cost down to $669 (plus shady tax tweaks). So you can pay $200 more up front, but save $100 in the end once the rebate check turns up in the mail. I'm just not willing to shell out the extra cash, partly because the delays are deliberately introduced by the company, and partly because there's always a chance they will dismiss your rebate claim on some technicality, or just plain ignore it and hope you forget about it 3 months down the road, at which point you've been lovingly fist-fucked by the company.

      If they made it into a coupon discount, then it would probably work better for everyone. Corporate clients won't be clipping coupons for every doodad, but pennywise customers will, and they won't have to "lend" money to the company for months just to get a stupid post-tax discount.

      --
      -Billco, Fnarg.com
    13. Re:Quick - someone patent it ... by symbolic · · Score: 1

      It depends. If it's only a dollar, chances are I won't make a big deal over it. However, I've lost count of the number of times I've elected not to buy something "yet" because even after looking around, I still wasn't sure I was getting the best price. I'm sure the average consumer would go nuts with this approach, but then again, that may be why so many of them are in financial trouble, leveraged to the hilt with credit they can't afford, etc.

    14. Re:Quick - someone patent it ... by costas · · Score: 2, Informative

      That's not price optimization: that's discriminatory pricing or price differentiation. The latter is usually done with coupons ("here's a $100 loyalty coupon for you Mr Smith"), the former is about maximizing profit (i.e. profit per unit times total units sold).

      Yes, I am a supply chain consultant...

    15. Re:Quick - someone patent it ... by njh · · Score: 1

      Ok, I have never used a rebate as I have never had one offered that compelled me. Implementation is obviously an issue. I guess the delays are a) to discourage recovery and b) short term money market stuff.

      I don't know what a coupon discount is I'm afraid .

    16. Re:Quick - someone patent it ... by nelsonal · · Score: 1

      I was taking price optimization to be price discrimination with a consultant approved euphemism. There are all sorts of ways to price discriminate, senior discounts, airline ticketing processes, branding, etc.

      --
      Degaussing scares the bad magnetism out of the monitor and fills it with good karma.
  2. Sell at a loss... by kybred · · Score: 3, Funny

    and make it up in volume! That's what I always say.

    1. Re:Sell at a loss... by TheVelvetFlamebait · · Score: 1

      Milo Minderbinder? Well I never! I always thought you were fictional!

      --
      You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
    2. Re:Sell at a loss... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Sell at a loss...and make it up in volume!


      Actually that is a price optimization software I keep expecting to be put in use secretly by Walmart's competition. Walmart has "the guaranteed lowest prices every day", but only if you challenge them on it with an advertisement for lower price then they have listed. Most of the time when you do this they will match the lower price on same brand and often will on a store brand switch in for grocery store private labels advertised prices. Walmart's however does not impose purchase limits like grocery stores often will with their "loss leaders". Now imagine a software that picks out a loss leader for its greatest effect on Walmart's profit line? Generally speaking Walmart's make up for the loss on other sales just as the competition does, however there is no limit or minimum purchase applied at Walmarts so that leaves them potentially open to attack in this area.

      My mother is a big fan of Walmart for the above reason, she collects all the sales advertisements she can and mostly just shops at Walmart while hitting them up for the lower prices advertised elsewhere and buying in multiples on the loss leaders she can store for later use. Saves her a bunch of money on groceries and she don't have to deal with the store cards often required to get the advertised prices at the advertiser's store or the "purchase limit"s. If a clerk won't follow this properly ask for a manager and if the manager don't meet expectations call 1.800.WALMART. As much as I am not a fan of Walmart, I hate the "Loyalty Card" dispensers and their ( dons tinfoil hat ) record keeping practices even more, so I will take an ad to Walmart myself before shopping for the advertised item at the card required companies to get the advertised prices places.

      Sometimes things on a heavy loss leader sale elsewhere will disappear for a few days from Walmart shelves, now whether this is a deliberate pull of the item by the manager or whether its because the item had no limit at Walmart at the other store's loss leader pricing and simply stays sold out for the period around the sale is up to debate. Likely its the latter cause many people go in and get cases of the "no limit" purchases of other store's "loss leaders" from Walmart. This would probably even be a good incentive for the "I hate Walmart" crowd to do some shopping there, only buying the loss leader stuff heavily. If several different members of their competition colluded to each take a big loss on a different item, but limited their sale to one item per customer, it might put a huge hurt on Walmart especially if they chose items that Walmart had heavily stocked and each had such an item up on sale every week.

      This may seem a bit offtopic but I wanted to make the point that there are other aspects to price optimization then software can legally figure in. Certain points if added to software in any fashion might lead to potential lawsuits or illegal business practice lawsuits. While it maybe a good tool its no replacement for a talented mind and/or a talented gut. Wish I had one of each.:)
    3. Re:Sell at a loss... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As much as I am not a fan of Walmart, I hate the "Loyalty Card" dispensers and their ( dons tinfoil hat ) record keeping practices even more,

      There's two types of those 'loyalty cards'. First are those that give immediate discounts for using the card. Second are those that send you free crap for stuff you've bought. If you're dealing with the first type, just give them an old address (or a fake one) when you sign up. Or trade with your roommate, if you're that paranoid.

  3. before all the "duh" responses by acvh · · Score: 2, Informative

    this is more about consumer behavior than straight economics. the optimizations referred to aren't just adjusting pricing to supply and demand, but, as noted in the article, address perceived value as well. I'm no economist, nor do I want to be, but it seems to me that such analysis can uncover otherwise unexpected responses to price adjustments.

    1. Re:before all the "duh" responses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful
      This isn't just straight supply-and-demand like you get in a pretty, shiny free market. This is stuff like attempts at price discrimination in a market that's got monopolistic competition.

      Considering that pricing software can cost seven figures, what's going to come of all the money being spent on figuring out how to get us to spend our money?
      Interested parties will consider entering the market and driving down the cost, that's what. Or maybe consider selling different versions (more price discrimination), or selling it as a service, or....
    2. Re:before all the "duh" responses by ACNeal · · Score: 1

      Although this isn't as obvious as most people will immediately think it is, it is worth a "duh".

      The is basically "Cost Accounting". As the first poster pointed out, this has been done for centuries. Using computer models will make it better and/or faster, but that is the same reason we use computers for just about any computationally boring process.

    3. Re:before all the "duh" responses by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 1

      this is more about consumer behavior than straight economics. the optimizations referred to aren't just adjusting pricing to supply and demand, but, as noted in the article, address perceived value as well. I'm no economist, nor do I want to be, but it seems to me that such analysis can uncover otherwise unexpected responses to price adjustments.

      Exactly, though I'd argue that even straight economics has a large behavioral component. What this does is let organizations maximize profits by tuning price to demand by optimizing the pricing mix; understanding the covariance between demand to set optimal price points; and uncovering correlations between complimentary goods.

      While there will be many /.'rs who say "It won't work on me because I..." they miss the point that while individual behavior varies widely group behavior is rather predictable.

      Of course, they haven't come anywhere close to US universities ability to price discriminate although stores would love to be able to base your scholarship I mean discount based on family income.

      --
      I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
    4. Re:before all the "duh" responses by hamelis · · Score: 1

      Let's remember that supply and demand are curves, and that any intersection is only for a given price/quantity combination. At a lower price, more people would buy, but whether the supplier would have higher or lower revenue/profit is ambiguous. With effective use of price discrimination, suppliers can capture more surplus.

      To expand the LCD TV example used above, let's say the original, static price was $700 (with a cost of $500). Before price discrimination, they make one sale to Mr. MBA and receive $200 profit. After price discrimination, they make one sale to Mr. MBA for $300 profit and one to Mr. Bargainhunter for $100 profit. Mr. MBA is still happy: he would have paid at least $800 for the TV. Mr. Bargainhunter is happy: he got a TV, which he would not have purchased for $700. The supplier is happy, because they sold two TVs instead of one, and made more profit.

      As others have noted, price discrimination has been in use forever. Haggling, anyone?

      Also, the ability to price discrimination does NOT imply monopoly power. It does imply that the market is not a case of perfect competition. Almost all markets are oligopolies, which give suppliers a limited ability to price discriminate.

    5. Re:before all the "duh" responses by fermion · · Score: 1
      To use a favorite reason that command economies do not work, economics theories are difficult because people are not bacteria. Optimizing price for "consumer behavior" is nontrivial at best, and maybe intractable. This is why setting prices using a competitive environment, while not ideal, does often work.

      Typically, people only have a limited tolerance for "perceived value", especially on commodities. One might occasionally go to the corner market and pay 50% more an equivalent product, but if people have a choice they will often go a larger store where they do not have to pay for "perceived value". It is the same thing with clothes and all other items.

      I would go so far to say that people are not bacteria and therefore can have quite a bit of irrational reaction to any price manipulation that in the end has a higher overall cost. To counteract this irrationality, vendors provide coupons, and retialers affinity clubs, that makes the consumer feel as if prices are not being maximized. However, Walmart has shown that even this optimization is imperfect, and the success of target has shown that walmarts optimation is imperfect. Sometime people will respond to percieve value, sometimes they won't. A lot of people just go to the dollar store.

      In the end pricing for perceived value is as dangerous as anything else. Apples 30% profit margin does not make it a market favorite, but Prada has no such difficulty. People are complaining that gas at $3 a gallon is insane, but will pay a dollar for a can of Coke, or three for a cup of coffee, which, if normalized, is 6 and 18 dollars respectively, for water. That we pump out of the ground, not in a war zone. Again, people are not bacteria.

      --
      "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
  4. Why this is good for everyone by G4from128k · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Customers vary in their willingness and ability to pay. If a company charges one simple price for each item, it creates a situation in which some people get a great deal (they pay less than they might be willing to) and some people don't buy the product at all (because the price is more than they want to pay). But if a company can find a way to separate the customers that really value the product from the customers that value it less, then more people will be able to buy the product and the company will earn more profit. (You mathematically prove that this increases what is called consumer surplus which is the equivalent to the consumers "profit" on the purchase and the seller's profit). Both side benefit, as does society.

    The amusing fact is that this is nothing more than a capitalist version of taking from the rich (those are willing and able to pay more) and giving to the poor (those aren't willing or able to pay more).

    --
    Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
    1. Re:Why this is good for everyone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yes, this is true, but you don't need complicated mathematical schemes for this. They've been doing it for years.

      It's called coupons!

      The product is priced on the shelf at the price most consumers are willing to pay (say, about 60%). The coupon discounts the product to a price the other 40% are willing to pay. Now you get to charge two prices for the same product! Woohoo!

    2. Re:Why this is good for everyone by Nf1nk · · Score: 3, Insightful

      One technique for this is the extended warranty racket. For the perception of improved service, and to make up for frequent shoddy workmanship, the product is available with several different layers of warranty available. The person who can marginally afford the product gets just the product but no added service or peace of mind, the person who will pay more for the product, gets the service he should expect with a quality piece of merchandise. All with just one line of product.

      --
      I used to have a cool sig, back when I cared
    3. Re:Why this is good for everyone by tungstencoil · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No to be rude - and you're correct in your premise - but that is typically called (market) segmentation in the industry, and not price optimization (I have some background in telecom marketing segmentation). The idea that one can segment their customer base and target product marketing efforts (either by price, features, or what advertising is focused on) is a little different than the article, which talks about looking at behavior within a larger set (the entire "chain") are large demographic subset (all of Dallas), and making a strategy out of existing full-set behavior. One could argue that charging a different price in Dallas versus Boston is segmentation, but it misses to definition a bit and falls more accurately into the price optimization category.

      I just wanted to point out they're two different (but related) interesting topics.

    4. Re:Why this is good for everyone by bitt3n · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The amusing fact is that this is nothing more than a capitalist version of taking from the rich (those are willing and able to pay more) and giving to the poor (those aren't willing or able to pay more).
      Except it isn't necessarily the case that the rich are willing to pay more. It's the people who think they're rich, or want to look like they are.
    5. Re:Why this is good for everyone by dubl-u · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The amusing fact is that this is nothing more than a capitalist version of taking from the rich (those are willing and able to pay more) and giving to the poor (those aren't willing or able to pay more).

      Some people might think you are kidding there, but there really are cases where everybody wins from differential pricing, and businesses really do take from the rich so they can afford to sell to the poor. Let me add an example to make it clearer:

      Imagine you want to build some sort of clever new software. You see that 10,000 people would pay $100 for it (as a fun toy, say), and 5 companies would pay $1m for it, because they can each make $3m from using it commercially.

      If the software costs $1m to develop and you sell all the copies for $100, your profit will be $500. Nobody's going to go to all that trouble for $500, so you wouldn't make the software. And if you did, you'd be steamed that these companies made millions while you got pocket lint.

      However, if you sell the first 5 copies for $1m each (with, say, some fancy documentation and a support contract), you can then go on to release a consumer version to get everybody else. You get $5m in the bank, so you're happy. The companies netted $10m, so they're happy. And everybody else got a fun toy at a reasonable price.

      Note that although your average price per copy there is $600, you couldn't get the same effect by charging $600; none of the consumers would pay that much for a toy.

    6. Re:Why this is good for everyone by slk · · Score: 1, Informative

      In your description of the extended warranty racket, you have just describe Apple's business model. You buy something expensive and of marginal quality (sorry, apple's hardware build quality is awful, though OSX is really nice) and then you have the big upsell to Applecare (takes care of everything for 3 years).

      --
      ERROR: Null .sig, core dumped.
    7. Re:Why this is good for everyone by smurfsurf · · Score: 1

      Not only that, but the consumer surplus does not increase with prize differentiation. Just the contrary. The gained profit comes from the previous consumer surplus. With perfect prize diffentiation, the consumer surplus is zero.

    8. Re:Why this is good for everyone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Third degree price discrimination, where the seller can only set different prices and let the customers sort themselves, does not take away all the consumer surplus (and can in some cases increase consumer surplus).

    9. Re:Why this is good for everyone by silas_pc · · Score: 0

      "The amusing fact is that this is nothing more than a capitalist version of taking from the rich (those are willing and able to pay more) and giving to the poor (those aren't willing or able to pay more)."

      Except that its actually taking from both the rich and poor, and giving to business.

    10. Re:Why this is good for everyone by jhjessup · · Score: 1

      The amusing fact is that this is nothing more than a capitalist version of taking from the rich (those are willing and able to pay more) and giving to the poor (those aren't willing or able to pay more). No, it's getting the maximum amount of money from each customer. They're not giving anybody anything - they're charging the rich more.

      As a side benefit, it can make a product more profitable and promote more development, so I guess the poor benefit from that... Kinda like people who buy version 1 of $NewStuff. (As a Version 3+ guy, thanks!)
    11. Re:Why this is good for everyone by Anonymous+McCartneyf · · Score: 1

      Not quite.
      One example was a store that had a line of paintbrushes and was selling too many of the cheapest paintbrushes. Solution for store? Discontinue the cheapest paintbrush, since the customers tend to buy the paintbrushes at the same time as the paint and therefore won't shop around.
      This benefits no one but the store.

      --
      There is a fine line between recklessness and courage... -- Paul McCartney
    12. Re:Why this is good for everyone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why do you hate the free market?

    13. Re:Why this is good for everyone by arose · · Score: 1

      Besides it's not giving to the poor, it's taking as much as you can take from everyone.

      --
      Analogies don't equal equalities, they are merely somewhat analogous.
    14. Re:Why this is good for everyone by smurfsurf · · Score: 1

      It does. Consumer surplus (CS) is defined as the difference between the individual reservation prize they are willing to pay (p1) and the actual prize they have to pay (p2).

      p2 CS = p2 - p1
      p2 == p1 => CS = 0

      p2 > p1 => no transaction, no consumer surplus.

      Perfect prize discrimination means p2 == p1 for everyone. SUM CS = 0

    15. Re:Why this is good for everyone by smurfsurf · · Score: 1
      Great. Slashdot eats characters in plain old text mode...

      The first line is supposed to read p2 > p1 => CS = p2 - p1

    16. Re:Why this is good for everyone by gnasher719 · · Score: 1

      '' One example was a store that had a line of paintbrushes and was selling too many of the cheapest paintbrushes. Solution for store? Discontinue the cheapest paintbrush, since the customers tend to buy the paintbrushes at the same time as the paint and therefore won't shop around.
      This benefits no one but the store. ''

      The problem is that customers are not stupid, and eventually they realise that there is likely a reason why you can't get cheap paintbrushes at this store. So either they just realise that this store only sells expensive paintbrushes, and try a different store for their next purchase, or worse, they figure out that the store doesn't sell cheap paintbrushes on purpose to make them buy more expensive ones that they need, and then the customer is really pissed off.

    17. Re:Why this is good for everyone by bit01 · · Score: 1

      Your reasoning only applies to a non-free market.

      In a truly free market the people who bought the software for $100 would be able to on-sell it to the business for $110, meaning the original vendor would be out of a sale.

      The fancy documentation and support contract is a different product that some companies are willing to pay more for. It's also bundling. It's not differential pricing on the same product.

      I'd like to see both differential pricing and all on-selling restrictions made illegal. This would promote a more free, fair and optimal market. Not simple to implement though.

      ---

      Monopolies = industrial feudalism

    18. Re:Why this is good for everyone by bit01 · · Score: 1

      (You mathematically prove that this increases what is called consumer surplus which is the equivalent to the consumers "profit" on the purchase and the seller's profit)

      This cannot be true. Take it to the limit, where the vendor can set a different price for every customer. If it's a monopoly they set the price to a tiny fraction less than whatever it's worth to the customer and all customer surplus is close to zero. If it's a competitive market with no price fixing going on then they must set the price to cost+margin (to undercut or at least be competitive with the competition) and all customers get the same price.

      To emphasize, in a free, competitive market the price is controlled by costs and competition and differential pricing is theoretical only. Particularly when on-selling is possible.

      Differential pricing is pretty good indication of market failure and should be red flag to lawmakers.

      ---

      DRM. You don't control it means you don't own it.

    19. Re:Why this is good for everyone by Servants · · Score: 1

      I'd like to see both differential pricing and all on-selling restrictions made illegal. This would promote a more free, fair and optimal market. Not simple to implement though.

      How would that be more optimal? The result would be that the hypothetical company sells the software for $1 million only, and the 10,000 other potential customers never get to see it.

    20. Re:Why this is good for everyone by TheSync · · Score: 1

      There are definately several scenarios where price discrimination enhances total welfare, see:

      http://web.mit.edu/14.271/www/hio-pdic.pdf

    21. Re:Why this is good for everyone by aethera · · Score: 1

      That's not the only way they get you. Ever notice how the store brand products invariably have much brighter and, lets face it, much uglier color schemes on the packaging. Its not because the margins are so thin on those generic brands that they can't afford to design better packaging. Stores want anyone who is able to afford (or thinks they deserve to be able to afford) the more expensive name brands to be sunconsciously turned off by the garish packinging, and maybe a little embaressed to be seen with it in their cart. That way they wring the most money they can out of the higher priced name brands, but can still capture that smaller margin on folks who have no choice to buy the store brands. My shopping trips are always funny because I seem to ignore the middle shelves ina grocery store altogether. Staples are always store brands of the bottom shelf, while flavorings and key ingredients will tend to be the imports or other top shelf stuff that has proven itself to be worth every penny over the store brand or the heavily advertised national brand.

    22. Re:Why this is good for everyone by impos · · Score: 2, Interesting

      well I'm not going to comment on the quality of store brands, but in my 20+ years at Kroger, I know the store brands make a boatload of profit compared to the national brands... like a 4-1 margin... on some items, mayonaise for example, we'd make 60 to 70 cents on the store brand per unit, maybe 10-15 cents on Kraft or Best Foods. And that's only one example out of about 8000 or so.

      We aggressively pushed store brands, the profits were much greater.

    23. Re:Why this is good for everyone by dubl-u · · Score: 1

      The fancy documentation and support contract is a different product that some companies are willing to pay more for. It's also bundling. It's not differential pricing on the same product.

      You're correct that throwing in a few trimmings makes it technically a different product. However, if the software is not materially different, I'm inclined to call it the same product in a practical sense. There are a number of software products that are effectively sold like that, and I'm sure you can find them if you look.

      This is especially true for "enterprise" products. I promise you that the people who will actually pay $1m for software (and pay another $50k annually for support) will not buy the same software used for $110 from some random guy. And they won't buy the $100 version at Walmart either. I know it's irrational, but that's what you get when you let a bunch of primates run things. For proof, just look at large-company adoption of free software.

      I'd like to see both differential pricing and all on-selling restrictions made illegal. This would promote a more free, fair and optimal market. Not simple to implement though.

      Creating and paying a large bureaucracy to keep me from selling what I want to whom I choose is a use of "more free" that I'm unfamiliar with. And the other fellow is right; your "more optimal" market is one where in my example I'd just not sell to the low end, so the vast majority of potential consumers would just miss out.

      Monopolies = industrial feudalism

      Now here we agree. In fact, I'd go farther. Every large corporation I've seen the guts of is run feudally. And given how it trains people to think, I believe it's one of the biggest threats to democracy.

    24. Re:Why this is good for everyone by Anonymous+McCartneyf · · Score: 1

      Okay. You're probably right. Now, if corporations would reintroduce the fine art of thinking beyond the next four fiscal quarters...

      --
      There is a fine line between recklessness and courage... -- Paul McCartney
  5. game the system by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    As other posters will doubtless already have said, price point optimisation by software is neither new nor interesting. What is interesting IMHO is the scale of the whole system. Big box superstores employ an army of psychologists, ergonomics experts and statisticians to try and control your behaviour and squeeze as much cash as possible from your pocket.

    There was a quite fascinating article published the other day in a Digg linked blog that I am sure many here read (I don't have the link unfortunately). What is really interesting is that by knowing the system and subverting it you can make HUGE savings in your shopping. The layout of the store is carefully crafted to expose you to the products they want to push. Color schemes and shelf placememt are designed to confuse or lead you to select certain products. Prices and product sizes are carefully designed to make comparative math very difficult to ordinary folks. Bargains are placed outside the normal lines of sight.

    In other words, the very existence of a cold and calculated system is what enables you to game it.

    Some bits of strategy I remember:

    1) Make a list and stick to it. Impulse purchases account for a huge amount of profit and the stores rely on you buying things you do not need.
    2) Never look at the products at eye level, they are the most expensive and worst value.
    3) Move as fast as you can to the back of the store. Start at the back of the store and work your way forwards.
    4) Do not stop unncecessarily. Deliberate impedences are put in isles to slow you down.
    5) Don't take a cart or basket unless you really can't carry what is written on your list.
    6) Use the bathroom before you go shopping. They place the restrooms to make you walk as far as possible past tempting impulse products.

    A couple of my own...

    7) Eat before you shop, never go to a grocery supermarket when hungry.
    8) Take cash, just as much as you need and no more, and use the cash only fast checkout.

    Perhaps someone who knows the systems they use in detail should write a piece of open source software in their spare time to calculate the optimal path through a store :)

    1. Re:game the system by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      These tips mostly seem to be about saving money by describing "how not-to-buy things you don't need" and on the fundamental principle that you're a slave to your environment and if you pass by some display with just the right setup, your free will evaporates and you're a slave to the Impulse Purchase. For example, the point about the worst value being at eye level is probably true, but I've generally always scanned the entire section for the cheaper stuff anyway... Others may be counterproductive sometimes. For example, "make a list and stick to it" - you're less likely to go "oooh, shiny" and grab something you don't need, yes. But sometimes, you are going along, and you find something that you don't need now but will in the future (and it is cheaper now then you can expect it to be in the future). People may benefit from the List as a form of self-discipline, I suppose.

      Ah well. Lead us not into temptation.

    2. Re:game the system by stoolpigeon · · Score: 5, Insightful

      2) Never look at the products at eye level, they are the most expensive and worst value.
       
      That is really not a valid statement, for a couple reasons. The first error is the last two words 'worst value'. Only the customer can determine what the value is. If I'm looking at a condiment section and at eye level is a name brand catsup, and below it is a private label equivalent, the price per unit will probably be lower on the private label. That doesn't necessarily make it a better value. If I think the private label tastes rotten and wont eat it, the more expensive catsup is a much better value.
       
      The second issue is that quite often what you see at eye level is determined by who payed for the placement. It may not be the highest margin item for the retailer on its own. But it is their because the vendor payed a royalty to have it where they want it.
       
        3) Move as fast as you can to the back of the store. Start at the back of the store and work your way forwards.
       
      That doesn't make a whole lot of sense. If you are talking grocery, very few stores are laid out the same way. There's no way this can be a 'rule' that will help you when what is at the front or back will vary from location to location. I think a better way of looking at this might be - don't buy what is on end-caps and floor displays until you have looked at the prices for comparable items. This means, not running to the back, but going to the aisle where the item is normally located.
       
      In larger stores this really doesn't make sense. If I go to Fry's Electronics and run to the back, how does that help me? If I go to Best Buy and hustle right back to home appliances, I'm not sure what I've done to help myself out.
       
      The psychology of all this is over rated. A little common sense - like many of the other suggestions in the list, will go a long way. That's not manipulating the 'system' it's just using your mind and operating above a visceral level.

      --
      It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
    3. Re:game the system by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The second issue is that quite often what you see at eye level is determined by who payed for the placement. It may not be the highest margin item for the retailer on its own. But it is their because the vendor payed a royalty to have it where they want it.

      OK, I will take issue with this. The fact that the store charges for premium placement means that, since they are making money on the placement + customer, it *is* thier highest margin product.

      The vendor then has to pass its cost to the consumer with higher prices, TNSTAAFL. Value is often based on percption which is why the use of 'blind taste tests' are often used to break down resistance to the second or house brand items. When I think value, I think unit cost per nutrional value + taste. Fancy labels are meaningless to me. But that's just me.

    4. Re:game the system by wkitchen · · Score: 1

      Prices and product sizes are carefully designed to make comparative math very difficult to ordinary folks.
      Luckily, all the grocery stores that I frequent have the price/oz printed on the price cards on the shelf edges. I wonder why they'd do that if they want to make it hard for shoppers to compare? Could it be that the advantage of making customers more willing to shop at their store (vs. a competitor) outweighs the disadvantage of being less able to sneak in poor deals? Or do, perhaps, the lower priced store brand items have better margins for the store since they pay less for them too? I don't really know. But whatever the reason, it is a very common practice.
    5. Re:game the system by jadavis · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The vendor then has to pass its cost to the consumer with higher prices, TNSTAAFL.

      You assume that the vendor always charges the same price. Often, the vendor will pay for good shelf space and lower the price. It's called a promotion.

      The vendor uses this as an investment to encourage new customers to try the product or people who've forgotten about the product to start purchasing it again. Some of those people then begin to like the product and purchase it when or where the promotion is not available (perhaps they purchase Coca-Cola on promotion at the store, and then ask for it in a restaurant later).

      You're right: there is no such thing as a free lunch. The people who pay for the shelf space and the promotional prices are the people who purchase at non-promotional prices because they were reminded of (or introduced to) the product by the promotion.

      --
      Social scientists are inspired by theories; scientists are humbled by facts.
    6. Re:game the system by king-manic · · Score: 1

      8) Take cash, just as much as you need and no more, and use the cash only fast checkout. Oddly the best buys around here have 1 cash line which is almost always slwoer then the 3 credit/debit lines. they know your strategies and are attempting to defeat you!
      --
      "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
    7. Re:game the system by Jeff+DeMaagd · · Score: 1

      Oddly the best buys around here have 1 cash line which is almost always slwoer then the 3 credit/debit lines. they know your strategies and are attempting to defeat you!

      That's not my experience. Even if it was, I'm willing to jump to the credit lines if the line is too long anyway. If they want to pay that extra ~3% fee to take a charge after I've already made my purchase choices whereas taking cash with a couple anti-counterfeit measures costs a lot less, then that's their prerogative.

    8. Re:game the system by Anonymous+McCartneyf · · Score: 1

      Surely Best Buy doesn't force you to use credit in the credit line?
      Most grocery stores have express lanes for n items or less. Sometimes they're faster, sometimes they're slower (no conveyer belt & too many people with less than n items), and these days they're often self-serve. But nobody has ever stopped me from using a normal aisle for less than n items, even when the express lane is open.

      --
      There is a fine line between recklessness and courage... -- Paul McCartney
    9. Re:game the system by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If I'm looking at a condiment section and at eye level is a name brand catsup, and below it is a private label equivalent, the price per unit will probably be lower on the private label. That doesn't necessarily make it a better value. If I think the private label tastes rotten and wont eat it, the more expensive catsup is a much better value.
      When you hit the grocery store, though, things get more complicated. The average chain grocery store makes more money per unit on the private label products because they eliminate many supplier costs. Their bottom line benefits from your thriftiness in that case. You're not gaming the system, you're just choosing which team you want to play with.
  6. Paco Underhill by baomike · · Score: 1

    Maybe the author has not yet discovered "Why We Buy".

    A cruise thru "The Power of Persuasion" by Robert Levine
    might also be enlightning.

  7. Interesting ... by LaughingCoder · · Score: 5, Funny

    I wonder how much this software costs. Does everyone pay the same price for it?

    --
    The more you regulate a company, the worse its products become.
    1. Re:Interesting ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Since it's oracle selling it, it works in reverse.
      Those with the most money pay the least for it.

  8. If you have to ask... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    you can't afford it.

  9. So what is new? by figleaf · · Score: 2, Informative

    Lots of companies have been using it for a long time.

    I have used a prize optimization solutions based of MS SQL Server back in 2005
    http://www.microsoft.com/industry/retail/solutions /priceoptimization.mspx

  10. A better way to game the system... by DogDude · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I have a better way to game the system: don't participate in "the system". Shop at your friendly local, independent retailers. In our store, we put things where people can find them, and price them competitively.

    --
    I don't respond to AC's.
    1. Re:A better way to game the system... by Anonymous+McCartneyf · · Score: 1

      Good idea, but it only works if many people have that idea. One metro area I'm familiar with has very few local independent grocery stores, and almost no general-purpose ones. It wasn't always that way: it took a couple of decades. As more people entered the system, fewer people could keep the local stores going. The stores just closed one by one.
      Of course, that metro area has several related local grocery chains. Do they count?

      --
      There is a fine line between recklessness and courage... -- Paul McCartney
  11. Watch out for customer "value" cards by argoff · · Score: 2, Informative

    You see. A lot of stores would like to charge each and every customer a different price. Those prices being the set that maximizes revenues from that particular customer. But in practice that is very difficult. Changing differnet prices on the same item for every sale would be cumbersome, and customers who see the person in front of them get a better deal than they do might get pissed. The stores response to this is customer "value" cards.

    In an idea scenario, they set all prices on the high end - but then give the customers "value" cards that offer varing discounts and rewards so as to optimize sales and profit. For example, if they know you won't pay more than $2 for a soda, then your soda will always be $2. For example, they might do something like use buying habits track your period. If you buy tampons on the day of your period - you will get reamed hard because they know you need them right now, but if you buy them in the off cycle then you get a good deal. If you buy just milk in the early morning, you will get reamed hard because they know you might need it for breakfast right then, but if you buy it later on you will get a competitive discount. If you buy a phone today, but the last phone you bought was two years ago and had a two year average lifespan, then you get reamed hard because they know you need a replacement right now. Otherwise you get a deal. If you buy condoms on friday night, you get a nailed hard, but if you buy them on wednesday morning you get a great deal.

    1. Re:Watch out for customer "value" cards by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Thats not how the cards work. There are two price tiers: one for non card holders and one for those with cards.

      In fact, the scenario you described with the cards is exactly the same one you said customers wouldn't tolerate. It is also illegal in many places.

    2. Re:Watch out for customer "value" cards by wkitchen · · Score: 3, Informative

      And how is that going to affect buying decisions when the buyer doesn't know about it until checkout time?

      If the gallon of milk is marked $4.99 on the shelf, the customer who is unwilling to pay more than $3 is not going to put it in his cart. That the store plans to discount it to $2.99 at the register won't change that. And if the customer is willing to pick up the $4.99 milk, what incentive is there for the store to charge less for it?

    3. Re:Watch out for customer "value" cards by davidpfarrell · · Score: 1

      "...If you buy condoms on friday night, you get a nailed hard, but if you buy them on wednesday morning you get a great deal."

      Sounds like you're getting a great deal either way!

      --
      Cube On! (http://stores.ebay.com/PuzzleProz)
    4. Re:Watch out for customer "value" cards by Qbertino · · Score: 1

      ... If you buy condoms on friday night, you get a nailed hard, ...

      I'd say it's my girlfriend who get's nailed hard.

      *DaaDum Crash! Thud.*

      --
      We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
    5. Re:Watch out for customer "value" cards by Anonymous+McCartneyf · · Score: 1

      Some of the stores I go to have value cards. Here's how they handle it:
      When there is a lower price for people with value cards and a higher price for people without them, the store covers the area on the shelf listing the normal higher price with a large card giving the lower price (for people with value cards) in huge numbers.
      People with value cards know what they'll pay immediately and will be attracted to the sale items.
      People without value cards can look under the big card to find the real price.
      People without value cards who don't read the big card carefully will get a shock at the check-out counter. The store might still get a few sales from people who only meant to pay $3 for milk but find themselves paying $5--which is better than no sales at all. After all, if those shoppers intended to visit that store regularly, they'd probably have value cards.

      --
      There is a fine line between recklessness and courage... -- Paul McCartney
  12. price optimization vs. market segmentation by G4from128k · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Yes, you are right that they are separate but related. (Your post is not rude and I hope my response is not rude, either). The lead example concerned pricing of drills. The three models (perhaps from three different makers) define different market segments as far as the retailer is concerned. Optimizing the price on the three models gives the retailer a chance to maximize both revenues and profits even if the retailer doesn't do anything to market the products differently. Similarly, markdown optimization is both a price optimization and a segmentation issue -- segmenting the "I'll pay anything to be the first person to own this" customers from the "I'll buy it later when its discounted" customers.

    The classic example, that I was thinking of, is the revenue management strategies of airlines that attempt to optimize prices across presumed underlying segments of price-sensitive leisure travelers versus price-insensitive business travelers. Technically, it's the identical seat that's being sold for radically different prices (up to 10X different) depending on issues such as how the customer buys the ticket, when they buy the ticket, whether they book a saturday-night stay, etc. The result is that the business customers pay for the plane and the vacation travelers only pay for the fuel and variable costs. The ability to differentiate does benefit the business customers because the added volume of travelers means a more frequent schedule of flights, larger planes, and more destinations.

    You are right, though, that true market segmentation involves much more than just price optimization.

    --
    Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
    1. Re:price optimization vs. market segmentation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The ability to differentiate does benefit the business customers because the added volume of travelers means a more frequent schedule of flights, larger planes, and more destinations.

      so you say, they are happy to pay much more ?

  13. Re:Why this is good for everyone - not always by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's not true that everyone always gains from price discrimination, which from the article seems to be one of the ways they optimize prices (by determining when they can price discriminate and when they'll end up cannibalizing their higher margin sales). Depending on the model, it's possible for consumer surplus to fall. Also, as with the $1 paintbrush example in the story, it's possible for the range and quality of products to be distorted. The classic example of this is coach seating on airplanes. Airlines might make more on coach fares by making it more comfortable, but then some of their business customers would downgrade and overall they'd lose money. (Then along came airlines that catered to coach passengers, but that's a different story.)

  14. And a few suggestions of my own... by Hamster+Lover · · Score: 1

    BEFORE you even make a list, define a meal plan for each meal of the day and only buy enough to cover those meals. This will save you significant amounts of money as you won't be raiding the fridge to come up with dinner. I easily halved my food costs in this manner, but the downside is you eat a lot of the same meals, like spaghetti, so it can get monotonous.

    A lot of stores, such as Safeway for example, include the unit price on their shelf tags. This is very convenient when comparing the cost among brands or serving sizes. The unit cost is usually expressed in dollars or cents per gram/mililitres on the bottom right of the shelf tag.

    I think it's silly to suggest that people rush to the back of the store or not stop while shopping. Just stick to your list, compare unit pricing, watch for sales and relax. It's not a race. As an adult should be able to walk down the cereal aisle without having to put your hands over your eyes to resist buying the Fruity Pebbles. Just stick to your damn list like a big boy or girl.

    1. Re:And a few suggestions of my own... by DogDude · · Score: 1

      As an adult should be able to walk down the cereal aisle without having to put your hands over your eyes to resist buying the Fruity Pebbles. Just stick to your damn list like a big boy or girl.

      You clearly have never been to the grocery store while high.

      --
      I don't respond to AC's.
    2. Re:And a few suggestions of my own... by Helios1182 · · Score: 1

      Hey, as an adult I bought Corn Pops yesterday while shopping. They were on sale and I realized I hadn't had them in years. Being an adult means you can eat like a kid once in a while.

    3. Re:And a few suggestions of my own... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      DogFuck, please die in a fire. Slowly. You're such a piece of shit.

  15. Sell at a loss...???, profit. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "and make it up in volume! That's what I always say."

    Printers and ink. Open source and services.

  16. Yes, but... by TheVelvetFlamebait · · Score: 1

    ... would it work in practice? Wouldn't tap into good ol' fashioned human greed, and force those penny-pinching rich folk out there to only accept "poor" rates? Wouldn't the egalitarians cry murder as the poor are elevated above the rich? It seems nice, but giving to the poor, taking from the rich, it isn't what capitalism is for.

    --
    You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
  17. And if you spent a second day in that class... by Arivia · · Score: 1

    you'd learn how to do price optimization yourself. This is nothing new - anyone with the right data and training can do this; the product simply makes it easier. Thank you for the astroturfing.

    --
    The role of the writer is not to say what we can all say, but what we are unable to say. -Anais Nin
    1. Re:And if you spent a second day in that class... by c_sd_m · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's not just price optimization that's relatively easy to learn. There's also location theory and optimization (e.g., retail, essential and emergency services, noxious facilities), routing and scheduling, order and inventory levels, ... The math is relatively simple (most of the time) and if you can set up the problems there are some decent OS software packages with very good solvers. COIN-OR comes to mind but I'm sure there are several.
      The real issues are getting the data and interpreting the results. I've got a land use decision model for urban fringe areas that's doing a reasonable job of presenting sets of potential solutions for decision-makers. The tough stuff is the pre-processing, e.g., defining what's feasible and desirable, and interpreting the results, e.g., what solutions are or aren't significantly different. For this type of work geographic data is readily available. I doubt that will be the case for most business decisions.

  18. I fail to see the point... by Khyber · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Why not save the cost of using software to calculate prices, and just ask the stockholders what they'd like to see it priced at? After all, ultimately they are the ones in control of the company. You might as well let them set the pricing so when profits drop, you can tell them "You wanted it, we did it. We're not to blame" and if profits soar then the stockholders can be pleased with their decision.

    --
    Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    1. Re:I fail to see the point... by shmlco · · Score: 1

      Yeah, let's have a stockholders meeting for WalMart. We can sit down and determine the price for each one of the 142,000 items a SuperCenter stocks.

      --
      Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
    2. Re:I fail to see the point... by Khyber · · Score: 1

      Yup, it's just as simple as a meeting going "How much should we markup our items?" I could see a company just doing a flat rate price hike to get their profit and not worrying about individual pricing.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    3. Re:I fail to see the point... by Anonymous+McCartneyf · · Score: 1

      A store that just used flat mark-ups might not do as well as one with higher mark-ups in general but lower mark-ups, or even mark-downs, on popular staples. People would go to the store which had mark-downs for the stuff that was marked down, but likely would buy some expensive stuff there as well.
      Surely a store that prominently advertises "Rollbacks" is not using a flat price mark-up!

      --
      There is a fine line between recklessness and courage... -- Paul McCartney
    4. Re:I fail to see the point... by shmlco · · Score: 1

      If you'd have RTFA you would have seen that they covered this point pretty well. But if you want to do it on a per-category basis that will cut our meeting a lot shorter, as WM only stocks about 40,000 different types of items.

      --
      Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
  19. We were doing this years ago by spywhere · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I was the purchasing agent for a chain of auto parts stores, and we used a method called GROI: Gross Return on Inventory.
    The original pricing theory in traditional auto parts stores was based on four "turns" per year: after opening a parts store and filling it up with stuff to sell, you needed to sell each stock number four times, at 35% gross profit, to make an adequate gross profit to cover your expenses -- and pay off your inventory in twelve months.
    This resulted in some items being priced much higher than at mass retailers, and caused stores to lose sales on popular items: people would go elsewhere for oil, antifreeze, and the most common spark plugs, brake pads and filters, because they were much less expensive at places like Pep Boys.
    The GROI method constantly recalculated sales and adjusted the prices downward on popular items, thus increasing sales and lowering the prices still further. For example, the best-selling oil filters would sell at under 10% gross profit, but we would sell out our inventory of those items twelve to fifteen times per year... thus making a larger profit on the initial purchases we had made to stock a new store. By setting a minimum gross profit percentage, runaway sales on an item would result in higher profits instead of ever-lower margins.

    This was all calculated by an incredibly expensive 200 MHz Pentium Pro box, running proprietary software atop SCO Unix.
    (I was the only one who could work the thing... which led to me running a newly purchased Netware 4.1 network in the chain's offices... which led me out of that filthy auto parts business altogether, thank Jeebus).

  20. Re:someone here reads digg by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Hah. The parent basically quoted the main points of an article that hit the front page of digg the other day: 15 ways stores trick you into spending.

  21. mnb Re:Why this is good for everyone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wow, you must be the least-frequent posting, low UID, active member.

  22. Does amazon use it? by heroine · · Score: 1

    Wonder if amazon charges a higher price on your first click, then if you don't buy and return several months later, they lower the price based on your contemplation time.

  23. Wal*Mart's low prices by Anonymous+McCartneyf · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Advice for Wal*Mart shoppers:
    Never buy produce or fresh bakery goods at a Wal*Mart. The premium at the true grocery stores often corresponds to the produce & bakery goods actually being better quality.
    Also, since you actually have a choice, try to memorize the routine sale prices at your other local stores. Sales tend to be cyclical. Wal*Mart has lower prices on the most popular items; for more obscure stuff they can go higher because those items are harder to find elsewhere, or fewer people are looking for them. I learned this when trying to buy a rare iron syrup (which could've had a proof number).
    Wal*Mart is a good place to shop for low prices, but other places have different selection, and it's a good idea to give at least token support to its competition.

    --
    There is a fine line between recklessness and courage... -- Paul McCartney
    1. Re:Wal*Mart's low prices by zippthorne · · Score: 1

      Indeed. Soda (the geek staple) for instance, is often cheaper at convenience stores and even gas stations than the supermarket or walmart.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
  24. Yes, there are new things by Mark_in_Brazil · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Seriously - this is NOT new. Not even in the software field.

    First, a disclaimer. I was employee #4 at KhiMetrics, the company founded by Ken and Tim Ouimet (employees #1 and #2). They're mentioned in TFA. SAP bought KhiMetrics in January of 2006. Ken had been my office-mate in grad school. That said, I haven't seen Ken and Tim in years, and I have no financial stake in KhiMetrics or SAP anymore (SAP bought out the KhiMetrics stockholders with money, not shares of SAP stock).

    Yes, it's true that humans doing pricing try to do the same things. But the thing is that software can do things a human mind cannot. Yes, the opposite is also true, but here software has a lot of advantages. In the case of the KhiMetrics (now SAP) software, it works on the category level, optimizing profit for the category as a whole, which can include taking losses on individual items. The software never makes the common mistakes human beings make. For example, different "flavors" of the same size package of the same product should come out at the same price, and the unit price of a given item should go down as the amount bought increases. I can tell you that I have seen examples where humans have screwed this up this week. When there are two sizes of a given product, let's say a certain laundry detergent, then the price per weight of the larger package better be less than the price per weight of the smaller package, or there's never any incentive for the customer to buy the larger package. Still, I see examples where the pricers have gotten this wrong. I've even asked people at the stores if they were trying to move the smaller packages because of having too much of that size in stock or something, and they told me that no, they had no such problem.
    The other thing is that the KhiMetrics software uses actual sales data to determine how sensitive the customers are to the price of a given product. This can be done down to the SKU (individual item) level in the product dimension and down to the level of customers of a specific store in the geographic dimension. In other words, the KhiMetrics software is capable of determining the sensitivity of the customers of each individual store to the price of a specific product. No human being could do that at all, much less in the time the KhiMetrics software can do it. Even with a pricing team for each category in each store, which would end up costing a fortune in human resource costs, the result would not be as good as what KhiMetrics can deliver. Additionally, since the Ouimets "grew up in retail," the KhiMetrics software, since the beginning, has been compatible with things like Category Management and Efficient Replenishment, and able to take into account things like having different goals for different products in a category (loss leader, profit generator, traffic generator, etc.). The software takes into account complex factors like seasonality, promotion, and product visibility. Since I have a reasonably good idea of the internal workings of the software, I can tell you with some confidence that I, a Ph.D. in theoretical physics, would not even want to try to tackle the problem of optimizing the prices for a subcategory of 20 products in a single store, much less the dozens of categories and tens of thousands of SKUs in the dozens of stores in a retail chain. KhiMetrics can do all that, basing itself on years of actual sales data, before breakfast.

    There are experienced people in retail who are good at such things, but the software was created with people that have the same level of understanding of retail pricing, plus it has all the advantages of being able to do high-speed computerized analysis of huge amounts of price and sales data. I don't work for KhiMetrics anymore, nor for SAP, but I can say that if I were working in a retail company, I would definitely want us to be using software like this for pricing. And experienced retail people agree with me. One thing we saw back when I was with K

    --
    "It is nice to know that the computer understands the problem. But I would like to understand it too." --Eugene Wigner
    1. Re:Yes, there are new things by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I look back to what happened when folks first started optimizing supply chains with computer models and the mess that caused.

      If you can capture enough information about the nuances of pricing and human behavioral factors then a system would work but I doubt it would be better than a competent and determined human involved in the process ... I don't think technology is that good yet.

      I'm currently of the opinion that computers can be better used as tools to present complex data sets to humans who can ultimately make the best decisions on pricing even if that decision is at a much higher level than setting individual prices.

      The central problem with computer models is lack of creative goals and lack of ability to capture relevent data about the environment. For example a major event coming to town, an emerging fad, specific counters for marketing schemes of local competition...etc.

      In this case autopilot is convinent but not always optimal.

    2. Re:Yes, there are new things by tomhudson · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "The software never makes the common mistakes human beings make. For example, different "flavors" of the same size package of the same product should come out at the same price, and the unit price of a given item should go down as the amount bought increases. I can tell you that I have seen examples where humans have screwed this up this week. When there are two sizes of a given product, let's say a certain laundry detergent, then the price per weight of the larger package better be less than the price per weight of the smaller package, or there's never any incentive for the customer to buy the larger package. Still, I see examples where the pricers have gotten this wrong. I've even asked people at the stores if they were trying to move the smaller packages because of having too much of that size in stock or something, and they told me that no, they had no such problem."

      Actually, this is quite common practice. A lot of people assume that just because the package is bigger, the "cost per gram" or "cost per ounce" MUST be lower - and they buy accordingly. Not only didn't the retailer screw up - he's making more by this "tax on ignorance."

      A lot of people can't do the math in their head if one item isn't an exact multiple of another item. Others "can't be bothered" doing the math. And still others, they just make the aforementioned assumptions that "bigger == cheaper per unit". And in places where retailers are required by law to display the "per unit" price, people can't be bothered to look.

      I've seen retailers take items that were dogs at $x per unit, bundle them 3 to a package and price them as "Clearance: $4x" and sell them out.

      And I frequently see items that are cheaper when bought in smaller units. There's a whole "to-the-retailer" rebate thing you're missing in any such analysis - manufacturers or distributors will frequently offer retailers a rebate to promote a smaller size of an item as a way to get buyers to try out a particular brand as an impulse buy. The regular brand-loyal buyers just assume that bigger==cheaper, and don't stock up on the cheaper smaller size.

      Last week, for example:

      1. 8 boxes of 36-bag tea worked out to the same price as the large 216-bag box, which holds 72 fewer ... (so I bought 10)
      2. 6 cans of 28 oz. tomatoes worked out a buck cheaper than buying the 160 oz jumbo can, which holds less ... (so I bought 30)
      3. 375 ml jars of sparerib sauce were less than half the price of the same brand at 500 ml - (so I bought 15 - and 6 had an added 30 cents off coupon attached, for an extra bonus)
      4. 475ml bottles of soya sauce were almost 70% less than the jumbo 900ml bottles (so I bought 5)
      5. 20 jars of olives, same scenario
      6. 10 jars of gherkin pickles, ditto
      7. same story for 6 bottles hunts of bbq sauce
      8. ... and mustard - 5 jars
      9. ... and relish - 6 jars
      10. ... tinned peaches, tinned pears, tinned fruit cocktail - same story (25 cans)
      Added to the other stuff I bought on sale (10 kg of coffee, for example, at $2.60 less per kg), I easily saved between $100.00 and $150.00

      The manufacturers do their price optimizations, the wholesalers and distributors do theirs, the retailers do theirs ... and it all comes down to getting the consumer to give them the money instead of giving it to someone else.

      Consumers who do their own "pricing optimizations" can save a bundle, especially if they're alert to the "bigger is not necessarily cheaper" scam, and are willing to buy a years' worth at a time. It gives a better return on investment (easily 25 to 50% per annum, tax-free) than any other investment you'll find out there.

    3. Re:Yes, there are new things by Mark_in_Brazil · · Score: 1

      So on the one hand, we have multibillion dollar retailers who are spending a lot of money on these solutions and entrusting them with the guts of their business, all after having tested the solutions with real data, and on the other we have the intuition of an Anonymous Coward on Slashdot that computers won't be able to pick up important factors. Hmmm... I wonder which analysis I ought to give more weight.

      The technology is that good. Retailers have reported huge gains in both revenue and profits from implementing KhiMetrics and other price optimization solutions. Since I'm insisting on making the case, I'll repeat that I have no financial stake at all in SAP or in the success of KhiMetrics, much less any of its competitors like DemandTec. I did have a brief flirtation with SAP last month about possibly working with KhiMetrics and other related solutions here in Brazil, but our conversation didn't get past the part where they were looking for somebody full-time. I already have commitments that keep me from taking a full-time job as an employee.
      And as for the "autopilot is convenient but not always optimal" comment, I'll refer the AC to my post (the grandparent of this one), in which I stated that the software provides tools for understanding why the optimization software is recommending a given price change, and any price change may of course be overridden. As I said in the earlier post, one is not required to accept price recommendations blindly.

      --
      "It is nice to know that the computer understands the problem. But I would like to understand it too." --Eugene Wigner
    4. Re:Yes, there are new things by Mark_in_Brazil · · Score: 1

      Actually, this is quite common practice. A lot of people assume that just because the package is bigger, the "cost per gram" or "cost per ounce" MUST be lower - and they buy accordingly. Not only didn't the retailer screw up - he's making more by this "tax on ignorance."
      That's a good point. Also, as I mentioned in the grandparent post, sometimes a retailer might do that in order to move the smaller ones if they had too many units of that size in stock. But what's really cool is that the software can actually pick up on how the customers at any given store respond to these situations and set the prices accordingly. The pricing policy can require the unit price to go down as the package size goes up in stores where people (on average) act more like the author of the parent post and use the parent post's "tax on ignorance" in the stores where people don't (on average) bother calculating the unit price.

      This all goes back to what Ken was saying in TFA about using methods from theoretical physics and chemical engineering (I was a physics student and Ken was a chem-E student; our advisor is a chemical engineer by training who is a respected researcher in the area of theoretical macromolecular and other "soft" condensed matter physics) to predict the behavior of people in stores. While each one of us is a unique human being with his own quirks and policies for buying, the behavior of the customers in a given store on average can be understood and then predicted pretty well using software. As Ken said, that's really surprising.
      --
      "It is nice to know that the computer understands the problem. But I would like to understand it too." --Eugene Wigner
    5. Re:Yes, there are new things by themusicgod1 · · Score: 1

      "and are willing to buy a years' worth at a time."

      "can afford to buy a year's worth at a time" perhaps. A years worth of mustard is great, unless all you get to eat all year is mustard. Like I should talk though; after spending maybe, oh, total 45$ this year for groceries total in the past two days I splurged and just spent 30$ on food(some of it was better than sex though, and I don't regret it, although I'm not going back for another meal there, ever, due to the cost).

      --
      GENERATION 26: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation.
    6. Re:Yes, there are new things by tomhudson · · Score: 1

      The problem with that, of course, is going into a different store from the same chain and finding out that your usual store is ripping you off on certain items.

      This end up hurting "the brand", so franchisors won't do this at the store level, but at the chain level. Several chains tried doing this in the 60s by charging more to customers in the slums than in the suburbs, where there was more competition. Word of the practice got around, and people started voting with their feet - making the trek to the 'burbs. Turned out that the marginal increase in profit per item sold wasn't enough to offset the loss of customers, and the practice was, for the most part, abandoned.

      However, you still see traces of it - suburban stores with more competition are more likely to have "in-store managers' specials" on a wider assortment of products.

      Its been replaced by the tactic of opening up two or three stores in any one area (often just out of eyesight of each other) under different "banners", each one with a slightly different pricing strategy. People who don't bother going to all three to "bargain snipe" will end up paying more for some of the items they picked up - the laziness factor.

      One good example of that is Loblaws/Maxi/Provigo - its all the same company, and if you pay attention, you can see the rotation of the specials between store brands. Ditto for Future Shop/Best Buy (okay - Future Shit/Worst Buy :-).

      And then there's the danger of misinterpreting signals from larger sales because of a price drop with continual larger sales. Example: Store A lowers the price on item X by 50% - people rush out to stock up on item X. Store figures "great" - orders double the quantity of itme X - puts that out at the same sale price - and doesn't sell any. People who were in the market stocked up, and after seeing that the "sale price" is now the regular price, feel they've "been had."

      Perhaps a better comparison would be with the stupid idea of your fridge keeping tabs of what you eat and re-ordering automatically. You bought some eggplant. You put it in the fridge. One day, you figure you'd better eat the eggplant or throw it out - so you eat part of it, decide you don't like it, and toss the rest.

      Sure enough, your fridge orders another eggplant, which you put in the fridge so it won't go bad and stink up the place, and on garbage day you toss it ... and the next morning, in comes, not 1, but 3 ^#$&* eggplants - the fridge saw there was a rising rate of consumption for eggplant, and ordered accordingly.

      By the end of the month, there's nothing BUT eggplant in your fridge - so you pull the plug, and have a yard sale on eggplant. Soon, the whole naighborhood is having yard sales trying to get rid of their eggplants.

      In the meantime, farmers have had their prices for eggplant bid up - so they plant more. Since they're planting more eggplant, they have less room to plant carrots. The price of carrots soars, while the price of eggplant crashes. People figure, hey, I've got these expensive carrots - might as well eat them - so this creates more demand for carrots, resulting in an even higher price - and panic hoarding. So farmers, seeig a chance to recoup on their eggplant losses, plant carrots. The market is now flooded with carrots, resulting in another market crash.

      In case you think this is pure fantasy, we've seen this situation in real life, with programmed trading on the stock exchanges - both in causing stock to rise higher than it should have, and the reverse. It'll be interesting to see if the program can actually do any better than a "random walk" over the long term.

  25. Worst value? Can't be right. by Krishnoid · · Score: 1

    2) Never look at the products at eye level, they are the most expensive and worst value.


    If that were the case, shouldn't candy, cookies, ice cream, and action figures be spread out over the entire store on shelves about 2-3 feet from the ground?

  26. Hardly new by barzok · · Score: 1

    I interviewed with a local supermarket mega-chain a couple years ago for a project doing exactly this. Compare prices at each store against what other stores are charging, and model the impact of tweaking the price of a can of Campbell's Tomato Soup by a cent or two (for example).

    Airlines have been doing this for years. And hotels, and other industries. Apartment complex management is getting into the game as well.

    I have a friend who works for a rental car company, he does this sort of thing in his head at least a dozen times a day - get the customer into a car at the greatest financial benefit to the agency. You may think that you're getting a great deal when he bumps you from a mid-size to a full-size car for only $6/day more, but he comes out the winner, because he'll turn around and rent that mid-size to someone else for $2/day more than you were going to be paying.

  27. And this is surprising? by zippthorne · · Score: 1

    Price optimization will happen in a free market, whether by Intelligent Design or the evolutionary optimization referred to by Adam Smith as the "invisible hand."

    Of course, if you're a company selling stuff, evolution favors the intelligently designed.

    --
    Can you be Even More Awesome?!
  28. Re:Quick-someone patent it ...Airlines not WalMart by toccoa · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Although, WalMart is NOT a good example of profit optimization; there strategy is more likely to take cost decreases and pass them on. Which may not optimize the short term. And certainly only works if you are the more efficient retailer, which scale tends to help. But it is very pre-consumer and relatively dificult to compete against based upon price.

    A MUCH better example would be airlines; where what is practically the same product - a coach seat on the same flight might go for 5 to 8 price-points of $100 to $1000 each way. Grocery and department stores might sell comparable products for 10 to 50% more than WalMart but rarely can get the 1000%

  29. Re:Quick-someone patent it ...Airlines not WalMart by no_pets · · Score: 1

    I disagree. Wal-Mart has similar and sometimes exactly the same product in slightly different packaging (size) so as not have to compete as aggressively as you might think. I actually worked at a Hypermart (one of the first Wal-Mart + grocery stores) in their bakery department. The local grocery stores had 7" and 9" pies. We had 8" pies. When the competitors advertised their pies as on sale customers would want us to match the prices. Wal-Mart will always match a competitor's advertised price on the exact same product. Ours were not exactly the same as the size was slightly different.

    It's the same in other departments. I've seen digital cameras nearly identical to the models that Best Buy, etc. have but be a slightly different model with (or without) one of the lesser needed features. This is designed to maximize profits by not having to match competitor's advertised prices.

    I'd be surprised if Wal-Mart doesn't use software to help determine what price to charge for a very similar product.

    Plus, Wal-Mart uses psychological pricing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_pricing to create the perception of extreme value (for example charging an odd price of $19.87 instead of $19.99). Who's to know that they don't run their standard margin on a product, come up with a price of $19.49 then "round up" or maximize profits by repricing to $19.87? It still appears as a price decrease when it may or may not be.

    --
    "A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." - Shepard Book Quoting Malcolm Reynolds
  30. What comes around, goes around by smchris · · Score: 1

    I remember when Target actually had useful stuff instead of being a big 7-11 with clothing. In recent years, we've been visiting the neighborhood hardware and auto stores again like we didn't for years. Imagine being happy to pay 30 cent/piece for screws because, dammit, I'll know they have them.

    I mention Target because they give me the creeps. I leave with the feeling that I'm never really getting a deal and every item of inventory and model of that item has been efficiently spreadsheeted for optimum profit.

  31. Another lap in the race to the bottom by Whuffo · · Score: 1
    The price optimization software that these retailers are so proud of doesn't provide the benefits they imagine. It depends upon two fallacious assumptions: first, that their software can predict human behavior and second, the assumption that the only pricing information the customer receives is what they calculate and provide.

    The idea of predicting human behavior via software should be obviously ridiculous. Coding behavior patterns based on statistical averages tells you NOTHING about the individual case; we're just plain hard to predict. Too many personal biases that they can't know about or calculate.

    And providing different prices to different people - well, the success of this depends on each person being ignorant of what his fellow humans are paying. That doesn't work; people do indeed communicate and discuss the prices / merits of their purchases. Not to mention that the act of charging different buyers different prices is illegal in some states.

    While the retailers may see an increase in profit when they implement a system like this, the benefits are transitory and ultimately they lose customers and see their profit decrease.

    Here's an example of how "scientific" retail management has unexpected negative results: the idea of managing inventory turns to maximize profit has already been discussed in this thread. Stores that do this well find that they can reduce the number of SKUs they stock and make even more by only stocking the items with the highest markup / fastest turnover. The downside: all those no-longer-carried items still have a market. So when someone wants that 5-bay switch plate or left-handed thread bolt they can't find it at any of these "modern" stores (sound familiar?) They usually end up finding it and buying it online from a specialty vendor. While they're doing that, they also discover that the prices are lower and there's no sales tax. While this is going on, the retailers cry about how the internet businesses are stealing their customers.

    So go ahead and use your price optimization software to determine the most effective pricing - but while you do, keep in mind that there's a world of internet vendors out there who use cost-plus pricing and have very low overhead. The only advantage the retail store has is convenience / instant gratification. But if folks find (as they always do) that the retailer is playing games with the prices they'll shop somewhere else. Nobody likes to be manipulated.

    And don't complain so much about the internet vendors - you created them with your profit-seeking policies, and drive customers to them with your "customer service".

    1. Re:Another lap in the race to the bottom by shmlco · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "NOTHING about the individual case; we're just plain hard to predict..."

      Don't care. While the individual case can't be modeled the group case can be. Plus a WM can price a DVD at one price in LA and another in SF, seen the trend, reverse it next week, see what happens then and adjust the price in all of the stores accordingly. Do variations of the above for 1,900 stores nationwide. See what happens when you advertise price A vs. price B and seel how many are sold. Do variations of the above for 1,900 stores nationwide. Compare against the entire history of every DVD you've ever sold. Correlate against box-office receipts. Find out that I'll sell more copies at $14.95 and make 5% more than if I sell each copy at $14.99.

      Do the same thing for 140,000 other products. Rinse. Repeat.

      "people do indeed communicate and discuss the prices / merits of their purchases"

      Indeed. When was the last time you and your friends discussed the fact that baked beans are $1.23 at store A and $1.25 at store B, while the dial soap was $1.45 vs $1.42?

      "Stores that do this well find that they can reduce the number of SKUs they stock and make even more by only stocking the items with the highest markup / fastest turnover."

      They're smarter than that. By your logic my grocery store would only sell sugar water. They don't. And they understand long-tail economics and price elasticity and loss-leaders much, much better than you do.

      "Nobody likes to be manipulated."

      True. However, if you're selling your house or car (and all other things equal) you probably want the most money you can get for it. If you're on the other side, you want that house or car for the fewest number of your hard earned dollars as possible. Your employer would probably like to get the same work done for less, you, OTOH, would like to do the same work for more money, benefits, vacation days, whatever.

      Some people will pay more for convenience, others will drive ten miles out of their way for bargins. Some people think Apples are more than worth the price, while others think that anyone who buys anything other than the cheapest beige box on the shelf is nuts. Horrses for courses.

      As long as all of these variables are in play prices will be adjusted and raised and lowered and fought over... and in some cases, manipulated.

      --
      Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
  32. What about small businesses? by Timbotronic · · Score: 1

    Great post. I wonder though, how could this software (or similar) be used by a small business with fairly low sales volumes?

    As an example - my girlfriend is an optometrist with her own, single practise selling glasses, sunglasses and contact lenses. They don't sell anything in great volume and generally just make up prices as they go along.

    She would love to have software like this to give her some pricing guidance, but I personally don't see how it could work effectively without a lot of sales data to crunch over. Is there another option? I'd appreciate your opinion.

    --

    One of these days I'm moving to Theory - everything works there

  33. iWon spam site? by mattr · · Score: 1

    TFA is to an AP news story but displayed on iWon. Is this not the same iWon that keeps spamming me all the time????
    Who the hell are these people?

  34. How does it handle ... by Presence1 · · Score: 1

    ... small volumes, e.g., form a specailty store, and also how does it handle Giffen Goods?

    What is the critical mass of sales data required to get good results? Has there been any effort or success in aggregating data from a number of small retailers to give them the results to match the information power of the larger retailers? Obviously, there would have to be secure handling of the data so the risk of letting out your sales data would be outweighed by the rewards of the improved pricing data.

    I'm also wondering about Giffen Goods, where a significant part of the value IS the higher price (e.g., due to exclusivity, snob appeal, etc.). Figuring out the price/demand curve for that could be most difficult, at least because these are specialty, low-volume items, almost by definition.

  35. Almost but not quite the same by Anonymous+McCartneyf · · Score: 1

    Hmmm... I may want to examine this phenomenon if I can. Admittedly, a lot of the stuff I get at Wal*Mart isn't available at other local stores at all: either it's one of their store brands, or it's the only store in my area to routinely stock whatever item of whatever brand it is. (There's a difference.) But I might want to investigate differences in the items that I can get elsewhere.
    I thought their nutella came in a different size jar from everyone else's...
    I shop at a lot of stores that do this. Warehouse stores do it as a matter of course--after all, who else sells bulk items in bulk?
    Dollar stores use that trick too. Snack cakes that come in ten-packs at normal stores (or even Wal*Marts) come in eight-packs at dollar stores. This was annoying back when ten-packs were priced at $1.09 ($0.99 on sale).

    --
    There is a fine line between recklessness and courage... -- Paul McCartney
  36. Perceived value by Anonymous+McCartneyf · · Score: 1

    Come to think of it, bottled water is often $4 a gallon...

    --
    There is a fine line between recklessness and courage... -- Paul McCartney
  37. Re:Worst value? Can't be right. by Anonymous+McCartneyf · · Score: 1

    I think he meant the worst value for that class of food.
    The candy is in two sections, the checkouts and an in-store shelf; the checkout candy will usually be a "worse value" than the in-store candy, and the candy that's easily visible will be a "worse value" than the candy that's buried in the skinny shelves below eye level.
    Cookies have their own section for the most part, but the "worst values" will be at eye level. Below eye-level, there are no cookies--only crackers.
    Ice cream will have its own section in the freezer section, but the "worst value" will be at eye level, and the ice cream in the upright freezers will be "worse values" than the ice cream in the chest freezers. Of course, with ice cream, paying more can be good because that sometimes means better quality.
    I have almost never seen action figures anywhere but eye-level--either the shopper's or the child's.

    --
    There is a fine line between recklessness and courage... -- Paul McCartney