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No Windows (Officially) On OLPC
Kadin2048 writes "Despite reports last week in major news sources indicating that the One Laptop Per Child project was in negotiations with Microsoft to bring Windows XP to the low-cost platform, Walter Bender, president of Software and Content at OLPC, said in an interview with Ars Technica, 'We are a free and open-source shop. We have no one from OLPC working with Microsoft on developing a Windows platform for the XO.'"
re MS forcing the price of the OLPC up with their hardware requirements look very silly now doesn't it.
Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
What truth?
There is no dupe
If there's one thing you can believe coming from the OLPC people, it's when they acknowledge that they don't have something!
I'm sure Microsoft did contact them, and asked for $50 in licensing fees per unit to ship it with Windows Vista Crippled Edition Ultimate, so Bender told them to bite his shiny ass.
I am glad to hear that it won't be Windows. Open software is a much better choice when you are trying to distribute low-cost computers to every child. Windows would have locked them into the Windows upgrade cycle, required frequent net access for updates, and would have just hidden a lot of the internals from the kids.
Open software, while it also requires updates, gives them a much better platform on which to learn. They can explore *nix operating systems, add programs - almost always for free, plus it will build an open software user base around the world. Not that that isn't already happening as more and more countries and companies switch to open source software, but by bringing on a new generation, this will be the push to put open source over the top.
We recently had heard in the office over one of the Yellow Machine that's made by Anthology Solutions.
It is interesting to see that choice is good, unless someone may have the choice to install software from Microsoft. I know when I get a new computer, I like having the choice to run windows.
Given who the laptops are going to, my guess is that Microsoft would have to give away any version of windows that actually ran on the computer. It is not as if the owners a going to have spare money lying around to buy a license.
:(){
I am sure some countries will be more than happy to get cheap laptops on one side and then install Windows on them in exchange for a large discount from Microsoft for their government's Windows/Office licenses on the other. Thailand, I am looking at you.
Some countries involved in the program are serious about free software, but I am afraid others are just looking for a bargain. Not to be pessimistic but I will wait to see what happens before considering the OLPC project as an incredible boon for free software, like some people here.
But everyone knows having a Windows OS teaches a child invaluable lessons in stress management!
I was looking forward to using the "show code" button on Windows.
BTW, yes there is an actual "show code" button on the keyboard. It's really cool. You can edit the code of most of the included applications and apply changes on the fly. I know it's for kids, but I REALLY want one of these laptops. Check it out at www.laptop.org
Open software is a much better choice when you are trying to distribute low-cost computers to every child. Windows would have locked them into the Windows upgrade cycle, required frequent net access for updates, and would have just hidden a lot of the internals from the kids.
Get real, these are not machines destined for upgrades and I seriously doubt a full blown version of windows would have ever be used.
Besides, if you want to get nit picky. Windows delivers updates very easily and wholly hidden should you choose. Its by far one of the easiest methods out there. Second, the people destined to get these machines are not going to care one whit about the "internals".
These PCs are not about exploring an operating system, its about getting to the end user the information they need to lead better lives. The last thing on the minds of the supporters is a war between unix and windows. They are more concerned with making sure these people can communicate with each other, receive information helpful to their daily lives (like weather), and provide education to children who may not have access to a teacher.
On a side note, I still think the OLPC is more feel good than do good. We are still relying on these governments actually doing what we want them to do with these tools and we still have the belief that people actually want them in the countries we are sending them too. My fear is way too many of these will end up along the roadside with the other trash.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
There is TinyXP. it takes up 400mbs, and requires at least 40mb RAM. Google it as it will come up with information about it, and also download links. I'm sure posting links like that are violation of the rules here on slashdot, so I won't take that chance.
Previewing comments are for sissies!
One of the aims of the project is that local industries in developing countries will be able to start making clones of them. The blueprints for the hardware and all of the software will be available for download to encourage this. The most advertised aim is to use them as educational tools for children, but a significant secondary aim is to use them as a starting step to moving a country's economy to a more technological footing.
I am still a bit surprised that they went with Linux, however. Apart from buzzword compliance, I would have thought that OpenBSD would have been a better choice, since it is much lighter on resources and much easier to tweak.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
The 1% of kids who care are the 1% who can do the most to power the economy. They are the ones worth supplying computers to, even at the effective $10000 per machine if you assume the other kids (99%) get no use out of their machines.
...but that lack of Windows on the OLPC could be an issue.
Mainly because your average Joe Schmo is absolutely convinced that Windows is a program for writing letters on, or something equally stupid. The lack of interoperability with the rest of the world (however stupid the rest of the world is) puts people at a serious disadvantage.
For instance, we all know that ODT is the superior document format, but try giving one to someone (in the Joe Schmo category) who only uses Word. They look at you as if you had two heads. Same thing is actually quite common for the pdf format (I'm telling you, it happens).
The OLPCs are not going to people who are sitting on the side of a ditch oblivious of the wider IT world. They will have heard of Windows, and they will want to know why they are getting this 'second-rate' linux thingy. When they do business they will do it with some idiot who is blissfully unaware of anything outside of Office.
I wouldn't for one second suggest that Windows should be shipped with the OLPC. But there are perception issues that must be dealt with.
I'm reminded of the film 'The Shipping News' - when asked what kind of computer he wants, Quoyle says 'an IBM'. He didn't know whether it was any good or not, he just knew that it was the 'right' answer. And unfortunately, at the moment 'Microsoft' is the 'right' answer.
Genesis 1:32 And God typed
But take a hard, realistic look at countries like Nigeria and THEIR experience with an impoverished population gaining access to the internet. When poor Nigerians got access to the internet, they didn't use it to primarily to better themselves--they used it to set up scams, relay points for identity theft, etc.
When you give a truly impoverished kid a computer, it's very nice to think "Well, he'll use that to go through years of education to get a job in a country where even IT professionals make a pittance." But, more likely, he'll see the MUCH more provocative possibility of using it to scam and steal from those with VASTLY greater resources than he has (i.e., us in the first world) with relative ease.
Even if he can just scam, spam, and ID theft his way into $40 a week, it's more than enough to bribe local authorities to look the other way, feed his whole family, and buy himself access to a world which was way beyond his reach before. To him that's a good thing. To the rest of the world, it's a huge pain in the ass. In a way, it's a warped way of leveling the playing field and "redistributing wealth," but definitely NOT in the way the OLPC expects.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
All of those used computers and the displays needed you mention require being plugged into the mains, which may or may not exist where these little laptops are going. The laptops are self powered with a pull string generator charger. That makes a rather big difference one might think. They are also LAPTOPS, which means the kids can haul them to and from school, etc. They also have integral MESH NETWORKING, which your used desktop systems don't have.
And so on. Every one of these points has been brainstormed, and the project as it stands was determined to be the best over-all compromise for the situation and project, which is primarily an educational project, and the primary use of the proposed machines is for them to have the ability to have hundreds of books cheaply, and to be able to custom tailor what the various nations and kids need and want.
As for it being crippled, on the contrary, there are some spiffy new hardware designs coming out of that project, just the self powered part and the display innovations have made it worthwhile, as this tech will expand into general planetary gadget-dom. As to the expense, do some basic math, run the cost of hundreds of hard copy books plus shipping, etc, to each individual kid, compared to a lightweight upgradeable e-book reader that has the ability to keep pulling down new books as they come out, plus let the kids write,draw, create, etc and you'll see this option is way, WAY cheaper than the traditional methods, short,medium or long term.
If you think of it more as a decent networkable e-book reader/multi functional decent screen sized PDA that is self powered, then it makes more sense than thinking of it as a standard laptop or desktop replacement. The same tool could conceivably be a kids entire set of books and learning tools throughout their entire primary school years. It is going to be an economic *deal* for these nations, not a burden, it is going to drastically reduce educational costs at the same time as it expands resources, a win/win thing.
The OLPC is not designed for that. Passing on our cast-offs to someone who can use them is one thing, and it's not necessarily a bad thing in and of itself (unless it ends up overloading the electricity / telecoms infrastructure or mucking up established working practices) but OLPC aims to be something radically different.
The ultimate aim is for some future revision of the OLPC design to be manufactured in the third world for use in the third world, thus breaking their dependency on the West. In order for this to be realised, every aspect of the design has to be as open as possible. That in and of itself does not absolutely preclude Windows -- all it would take would be for Microsoft to release the Source Code and allow independent distribution. (Not that they're going to, because it goes totally against their business model; but you have to understand that it's their choice. Microsoft won't, not can't.)
Third world countries don't need Windows; be it Vista, XP, or 98. Not even 3.1. They need their own alternative which doesn't involve taking money -- any amount, however small -- out of their economies to make multi-billionaires even richer. If there was no such thing as Open Source, they'd actually be better off with pencils and paper. But there is, and that -- coupled with the availability of computers -- will create jobs for local programmers. Local programmers buy goods in local shops, pay local taxes, eat in local restaurants, donate to local good causes and take their families to visit local tourist attractions: the money that you pay them stays in the local economy. And soon, of course, with the design being open, there will be local computer factories making even more Mk. III and IV OLPCs.
There's a tired old cliché about teaching a man to fish vs. giving a man a fish. Well, it's not enough to teach a man to fish if you're just going to force him to use your own expensive, proprietary bait.
Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
I could see either an SD slot or the extra FLASH but both seem to provide the same feature of added storage space. And just because the chipset has the support, it's not free or cheap. The SD slot required a new case and planarboard layout and it opens the package to environmental incursions. But like I said, putting expanded onboard FLASH or removable FLASH provide the same function. As far as increasing system runtime memory from 128MB to 256MB goes, it's a toss up as to if this really buys you anything in that the device is a limited function laptop and not a general purpose laptop.
So, where did all the extra cost come from? The CPU upgrade was free, there's double the DRAM and FLASH and the CPU uses far less power than the previous version IIRC( 1.5W compared to 3W ). But there's little talk about the fact that the battery went from NiMH to LiON. Surely the power requirements/loads were factored in before this latest change. What was driving that change and did it also change the charging system too. Granted, LiON does not have the internal self-discharge rate of NiMH but they are far more expensive and not forgiving in charge regiment.
I will also say that I've SEEN how Microsoft works for over 20 years and when Bill Gates goes public and bashes a project to educate poor kids around the world, he and his company are a threat to the project. They are a business and have no interest in feeding the world or other humanitarian effort except to put a Microsoft Windows desktop OS and Microsoft software in front of them. The very day I heard that Quantus was the OLPC partner, I wondered if their contracts to build Microsoft systems would allow Microsoft to somehow derail the manufacturing process. It's not a conspiracy theory, it is a fact of how Microsoft does business.
I'll be brining up a OLPC dev env and will see how their python based Sugar does. To me, when I saw that the original CPU didn't have L2 cache, it definitely put a question mark on the performance aspect of the device. It is very tough to see the price keep going up though.
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
point taken, it's Flash not all caps. I'll use EEPROM instead. ;-)
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus