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Apple iBook G4 Design Flaw Proven
empaler writes "Apple has long denied service on iBook G4s whose screens went black after just over one year of use, denying that there was any error. But now, the Danish National Consumer Agency has released a report proving that the error is due to a design flaw. So far, the only news site picking this up is The Register (unless you understand Danish). The Danish Consumer Complaints Board says that Apple needs to get a grip and acknowledge this error in the rest of the world. The NCA also has some photos from the report (explanations in Danish, but easily comprehensible from context)."
It is a feature. Next thing you know people will say the Ipod Batteries dying after a year is a design flaw too.
~
Push that button in the upper right corner of the keyboard, the one with the circle and a vertical line -- then the screen lights up again, and you get the happy Mac face.
Reflow the solder. Simple.
Incidentally, with the introduction of RoHS-compliant lead-free solder, you will see this more and more. Consumer-grade lead-free is so crappy that it's almost impossible to make a single working board without at least some reflow work. Oddly enough, military- and medical-grade equipment are exempt from needing lead-free solder. Wonder why?
My G3 ibook did the exact same thing, and it was also a logic board failure. Apple has had lousy QA for several years now, and as someone who actually LIKES Apple products it's extremely frustrating.
My little iBook has been singing along for over a year with _no problems_. This is clearly just another attempt at spreadi ww W()(())()*** 111||||ww
although it may be a manufacturing fault. It's a solder joint which has broken. Were these computers built with RoHS mandated lead-free solder? There is a lot of concern across the entire electronics industry that the changes required by RoHS will lead to reduced reliability.
This is ONE computer. Is this failure present on others with similar symptoms, or are their other faults modes which can cause the same problem?
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
I have a problem with my dårlig lodning, I think it's all skruetvinge.
English is not this
I got to the photos before the site got borked.borked.borked - it shows solder traces cracking after repeated flexing - huge surprise.
No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
1) E-mail Steve Jobs
2) Get new iBook + all your data hand-transferred
3) ??????
4) Profit!
Peace sells, but who's buying?
Can anyone identify where on the logic board the photographed chip/connection is located? Also, can anyone confirm that the connection shown at the center of the photo showing the chip, which would be the bottom right most connection on the chip from that perspective, is the one in need of repair? This doesnt seem completely evident from the zoomed in photos of the joint/trace. My roommates have a number of iBooks that have suffered what is likely this fault, and I would love to get them working again.
I support Macs for a living and haven't encountered this one. My own iBook G4 is about three years old now without any failures, but that's just one.
Is there a place where we can see some numbers on how widespread these failures are?
where this component is located. Comments here talk about using a C-Clamp (which is also shown in the Danish photos) as a workaround to the problem. A quick bit of searching produces this site, which shows that the chip is nowhere near the power button, as you claim. In fact, it appears that the power button mounted to a small, completely separate PC board, in accordance with good design practice.
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
About the same thing happened to my Powerbook, and it still hasn't been fixed. Apple refuses to fix it, because it was dropped about a year ago, and if there is any physical damage at all (so much as a dent), the warranty is void. Since they will only do complete and total repairs, it would cost $1200 to fix.
So, my question: Does this also happen with Powerbooks? And if so, is it something I could easily fix by cracking it open and soldering something? Any step by step instructions on how to do so?
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
And on the other hand, there are anti-mac people that are excited about this sort of news. That's stupid, too.
But really, the anti-MS and anti-PC and anti-Mac stuff gets really old after a while. Macs have problems, PCs have problems, MS software has problems; I have to say that with this particular instance, Apple supporters seem much more worried about admitting that there is a problem than PC supporters or MS users.
Modding something flamebait for pointing out an inconsistency in how problems with company X are accepted is... hmmm. Silly.
Perhaps people here are not acquainted with the product engineering process.
.. the less said the better.
Engineers take *every* component of a product into account during design, including the types of solder to be used and the methods of soldering to be employed.
Indeed, they may select higher quality solder in order to reduce the requirements and hence the cost of other parts, or they may specify lower quality solder in the knowledge that the rest of the components on their bill of materials can still be assembled to spec and will still work together reliably for the normal lifetime of the product.
In this particular case, either Apple engineers did not consider the effect of their design on the solder joint in question (it should probably have been a far more substantial joint), or they did not specify the right type of solder given the requirements of their design, or else the subcontractors who made the unit used a type of solder different to that specified by Apple. (In the latter case this would be an Apple testing/QA problem, since you *ALWAYS* check what your subcontractors are doing, no exception. If you value your brand name, that is.)
So whichever way you look at it, this is entirely Apple's fault. Design and/or testing engineers get paid for doing a good design and/or testing job, and in this case they haven't. Get the message to them, and they'll fix it --- engineers are always happy to fix problems, on principle.
As for Steve Jobs and Apple Customer Services
There's a problem. Get it fixed.
"The question of whether machines can think is no more interesting than [] whether submarines can swim" - Dijkstra
Only to idiots, are orders laws.
-- Henning von Tresckow
Perhaps you should read this.
Now we know why Dell doesn't have this problem. :)
I have a G4 ibook, i demand to be compensated, i demand a new macbook/pro replacement immediately. What ? Well yes my G4 is working fine.. that is not the point...
"When they invent bitch slaps that can go through a monitor you better f'ing duck" --deft (253558)
So you should just expect if you buy an iBook that you will have to replace it shortly after a year. Just like when you bought an iPod and had to have the battery replaced after a year...
Of course this was Dell coprorate support, home user support is generallly junk.
iMac PPC G5 computers had a high rate of video failure from a certain group of capacitors failing. I have swapped out dozens of iMac G5 motherboards.
Companies also tend to drag their feet about admitting these problems. From a tech's perspective with thousands of Dells, Gateways and Apples on campus you can see some patterns pretty damn clearly, getting a company to admit it is something else.
It happens with every mass manufactured brand of computers. Denying that any certain company has these problems is silly.
I hope all computer companies get called out on this more often. Especialy on laptops, they are difficult to design and build well.
Das machine is nicht fur gerfingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der Springengwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit Spitzensparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken by das Dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken Sightseeren keepen Hands in das Pockets, relaxen und watchen das Blinkenlights...
Long live the Speaker Bracelet
Rolo D. Monkey
Just ask them!
I also had one of the flawed G3 iBooks. The worst part was how many people recommended the machines, on the basis of how well built they were, even when they were getting theirs repaired just as regularly as mine.
If someone speaks highly of Apple's quality, but they do so whether or not the quality is good, then it doesn't really give me any information. Therefore, I tend to regard customer reviews with a fair amount of skepticism. If there's a pattern of downplaying problems, then even Consumer Reports and similar are suspect.
G3 iBooks are great... except the logic boards die on a regular basis.
G4 iBooks are great... except the solder joints keep breaking.
MacBooks are great... except that for that overheating under load thing.
I'd be fine with paying extra for quality. What I'm not fine with is paying extra for what Apple sells.
I rarely criticize things I don't care about.
We love Apple for their design flaws, don't we!!
The SE/30 featured an shielding cardboard that was coated with metal on the bottom; the motherboards pins would at time poke through, and if the machine was sitting vertically for a while, suddenly it could go - blam - and stop working and go into some type of hangup or crash. For two models, I could repeatedly get them going by shaking the machines upside down, but neither Apple, nor Apple dealers, acknowledged the issue. It may be that having parts installed - and having people disassemble and reassemble parts of the Mac - may have played a role.
All of the compact Macs featured floppy disk drives that, over a working period over more than 6 hours, would reliably and predictably cause floppy disk errors. So I'd start using a new OS floppy after 5 hours, and things would be o.k., or not do it and consistently get crashes from 7 hours on upwards. They had built in a bright CRT, and obviously, shielding was some issue there. Nevertheless, this was an obvious design flaw.
Or the iPod mini. The iPod mini featured some weird shielding problem whereas crackling noise would occur. It would disappear as soon as the components that are stuffed together (battery, main board, micro disk) were pulled from each other - then, no crackling noise would occur even when mechanically straining the 3.5mm jack. Another design problem where capacitor- and shielding-related issues determined the outcome.
Or, take the Powerbook G4 Aluminium "Narcolepsy" model Apple built and sold! A design flaw classic. Not admitted by Apple, ever. I guess they switched to Intel partly because there were so MANY of these sold, that switching to Intel may have been the only way to give the Powerbook G4 owners a good reason to buy a new Apple laptop rather than attempting to force Apple to fix their old one. Maybe one day, we will hear the insider story of that botched up piece of hardware?
Also, there were a number of Powermac G5 computers that all had severe logic board problems that I laid hands on - two of them DOA (Dead On Arrival), and on another one I just got it repaired for the cheap sum of around 800 dollars.
So, I think if anything is newsworthy it'd be publishing that Apple actually managed to assemble some parts without design problem. That'd be what Slashdot may want to focus on, not that Apple "yet again" was shown to have screwed up something we all knew they couldn't get right to begin with.
Anyone believe that they can get the iPhone right, at all?
Disclaimer: Both myself and one of my coworkers are IPC-610D certified inspectors of electronics. For those of you who aren't in the know, IPC-610 is the industry standard that dictates how all electronics assemblies are supposed to be put together. I spend considerable time inspecting fine pitch surface mount devices. I am also the manager of the assembly department at my company, where we make class-2 commercial grade electronics.
To say that I spend a lot of time looking at soldered joints is an understatement.
So, what's the problem here?
The Danish government is just as culpable as Apple is on this one.
The solder used in this joint is obviously (to me at least) a lead-free solder. (Lead free solders are exceptionally grainy and dull in appearance compared to leaded solder that is smooth and shiny.) The switch to lead-free solders was mandated to occur last year on July 1st by the European Union. Any electronics shipping into EU member nations must comply with this new standard, which is called RoHS, or "Reduction of Hazardous Substances". (Look it up in Wikipedia.)
Due to complexities in maintaining parallel manufacturing lines, most companies simply switched to the Lead-free solder for their entire product line. (As did my company). This means that most all new electronics you by are going to have lead-free solder holding them together.
So, why is this a problem? Plasticity.
Leaded solder alloys (SnPb 60/30) are extremely ductile. This means that they will flex a considerable amount before fracture occurs. With electronics that experience heat cycles, or any kind of motion at all, this is an extremely beneficial trait to have. Lead-Free solders on the other hand (like the most common SAC305 SnAu3%Cu0.5%) are incredibly brittle. What is obviously happening here is that the heat cycling from the laptop turning on and off is stressing this solder joint, and causing the joint to fail. Had this been leaded solder, I can almost guarantee that this problem wouldn't exist.
So what does this mean? Exactly what the electronics industry has feared. The EU made a dip$#!t move. Industry experts believe that the average lifespan of an electronic device has been significantly diminished. Down to an average consumer product lifespan of 5 years. There have been early reports of serious quality problems, including SWATCH having over 10,000 watches fail within a month of shipping. You can expect to see a drastic shortening of the lifespan of your electronic goodies. This is just the beginning people. If you see a device that is labeled as RoHS compliant, do not buy it if you expect to use it for more than a few years.
What do you know about electronics manufacturing? 1. "Higher Quality Solder" There is no such thing as "higher quality Solder". There are two industry recognized solder alloys out there. SnPb 60/40 and SAC305. SAC305 is used on RoHS compliant assemblies, and is mandated by the EU. From the photos, it is obvious to me that this solder was SAC305. (Yes, I can tell. From the side-cuts, you can see that the solder is very grainy and dull. This is the hallmark of lead-free solders.) Again, due to the idiotic RoHS legislation, manufacturers are REQUIRED to use a lead-free alternative, among which the SAC305 is the best. (The proverbial winner of the special-Olympics.) 2. "A far more substantial joint". The solder joint in the photos EXCEEDED IPC610-D Standards for even Class 3 medical devices. This is a SURFACE MOUNT DEVICE, and as such, there is no other way that you can get a more "substantial" joint, unless you went to a TH DIP package, if it was even available, and if you could even fit it into the design. 3. "Right type of solder" See number 1. 4. So no, it is NOT entirely Apple's fault. I'd bet $100 that if this chip were removed, and a new one were installed with SnPb solder, then it would not fail. Period. But since Apple isn't allowed to use the right solder, this happened. Have you ever designed something? Can you say that you tested EVERY POSSIBLE point of failure? No, didn't think so. It's because it's impossible to do. There is a problem, and it's the knee-jerk reaction of the EU to blindly ban the one substance that has been fully responsible for allowing the computer revolution to occur. Way to go!
So... an engineer is told to design a ship. He's told that the material to be used is wood, but designs it as if it were to be made of steel (because that's the right material!). The ship fails. How is it not the engineer's fault for not designing the system to the intended specifications? If the specs said that a non-lead solder was to be used, then the board should have been designed so that it would not fail with a non-lead solder.
Maybe they swapped out the solder after the design was finalized and it's not the designing engineer's fault. But you can't blame the failure on the solder (unless it was not the correct composition). It's not as if this lead-free solder is some mysterious substance. Someone, somewhere along the line, failed in the design of this system.
If you want a vision of the future, imagine a youtube comments section scrolling - forever.
Getting only a little more serious -- is there any alternative to the old fashioned wave soldering manufacturing process? Is there some combination of materials that could be laser or maser welded rather than soldered? What if we went copper-to-copper instead of aluminium-to-copper-via-solder? A micro-mechanical solution (spring clips) would have appeal if the right alloys -- conductive, non-corrosive, springy -- could be adapted. I doubt that anything we can lay our hands on today could do it, would take a lot of research, but then a newer, greener world would by definition be different, and we'll have to come up with some new thoughts. Maybe Wm & Melinda Gates could fund a few grants, pay some of that fortune back into the industry at the bedrock.
Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear