No Wine for Dell Ubuntu Users, Says Shuttleworth

yuna49 writes "News from last week, but still worth noting: Mark Shuttleworth told eWeek in a May 3rd interview that Dell will not include open-source software such as Wine with the PCs it plans to bundle with Ubuntu Linux. Says Shuttleworth: 'I do not want to position Ubuntu and Linux as a cheap alternative to Windows ... While Linux is an alternative to Windows, it is not cheap Windows. Linux has its own strengths, and users should want it because of those strengths and not because it's a cheap copy of Windows ... Often we see proprietary software companies just completely fail to understand not only the motivations of the Linux community, but also the processes. It's very practical, there's a way to get things done, and it's different. The VMware guys have really engaged with us completely and worked to the agenda set by the Linux community, which is not an ideological agenda but a practical one.' Does that mean Wine won't even be listed in the package manager?"

Comments

And one of those is

[Anonymous Coward]

Linux has its own strengths, and users should want it because of those strengths and not because it's a cheap copy of Windows

And one of those strengths is that you can still install WINE after you buy the computer despite the decisions made by a large company or single individual.

Re:And one of those is

[0racle]

What in the hell are you talking about? The Ubuntu that will ship not have Wine installed by default. The article does not say it will not have Wine available. You will still be able to launch Aptitude or whatever Ubuntu actually uses and install Wine from the Ubuntu repositories.

Re:And one of those is

[sgholt]

I think you and many of the other posters have missed Shuttleworth's point.
He doesn't want linux to be a platform to run windows software. Wine is a great application, but windows software with a few exceptions is never going to run as well as it would on the Windows OS.
That can only hinder linux adoption by those still tied to windows applications.
The key to linux adoption has not changed...we need software companies to make software for linux.

Shuttleworth has put a lot of money into advertising and promotion of linux...he is doing what needs to be done. The more linux users there are, the more interest software companies will take. Wine is a temporary fix to the bigger problem...it will always just be a temporary fix. These things take time but I think his comments do show a good understanding of the real problems.

Re:And one of those is

[mhall119]

Um, WTF? If Windows doesn't include software I want, I download it and install in. For linux, it's probably in the distro's repository, so downloading and installing it is even easier. If it's not, then I'm back to where I am on Windows, download it and install it.

Now I doubt Ubuntu will setup a different repository for Dell installs, so Wine will likely be only an apt-get away. The announcement is just saying that Wine will not be in the default installation, for the logical reasons given.

But lets say you're right, and Ubuntu doesn't offer it for Dell installs, you just download it and install it yourself, it'll even handle downloading and installing any dependencies for you.

So the absolute worst case scenario here is that installing software in Ubuntu is as easy as installing software on Windows, but chances are it will be much much easier. Basically everything about your post was FUD, and not even intentional FUD, but ignorant FUD. From someone who claims to be a Linux developer (and a Wine developer too?), I can't fathom how you could not know this.

Re:And one of those is

[yahooadam]

sudo apt-get install wine

seriously - whats so hard about that ?

TBH i think this is a good idea, why should dell install a boatload of rubbish on your PC, the same goes for windows, you can install it yourself if you want, that's why its a PERSONAL computer

also - although wine is good, it is no alternative to windows yet, its still not simple and easy to use, and its not 100% there, but if you are moving over its definitely a nice way to keep your favorite windows apps going (if they work)

Re:And one of those is

[sgholt]

Come on now...try thinking 10 years from now...do you really think linux users will be using wine? I really doubt it...linux is on a long road one that does not end tomorrow. It needs to stand on its own and not rely on the ability to run non-native software. You and many others are blinded by what they need right now...but in the bigger picture it can not remain that way.

omg.. you might have d/l it yourself..

[uncledrax]

Um.. so it's not included? Big deal..

apt-get install wine

done...

What's the problem?

Re:omg.. you might have d/l it yourself..

[nomadic]

But the problem is, WINE doesn't always work like it supposed to. Sometimes it requires tweaking.

I think you're wrong. About the "sometimes". Take it out and the sentence is good.

Way to go, Mark

[KingSkippus]

Every time I read something about Mark Shuttleworth, I become just a little bit more of a fan.

While I have nothing against WINE—indeed, I use it myself for several things—I have to agree that it's just not right for distribution by a company like Dell. There's an art to getting it set up and configured, and while it's good, there are still a lot of applications that either don't work at all or don't quite work right in it.

This is a massive problem, and could seriously backfire on Ubuntu. If people buy a Dell machine with Ubuntu and WINE installed thinking that it will run Windows software, when something doesn't work right (and there will be things that don't work right), the average consumers will get mad at the wrong people: Ubuntu and WINE, not Microsoft. The focus will be on how Ubuntu sucks at running Windows software, not on how Ubuntu rocks at running Linux software.

I see here a golden opportunity for desktop Linux to make major inroads with the public and take a significant step towards advancing free open source software. I also see here a golden opportunity to destroy the reputation of desktop Linux as a viable alternative to Windows and give people the impression that free open source software really sucks. Don't you think for a second that Microsoft is going to be trying their damned best to see that Linux on Dell machines gives people a bad taste for open source software.

I have to give Mark Shuttleworth a pat on the back for seeing the big picture, for sacrificing trying to please everyone for the sake of making sure that this is done right, and that the software that people get is great, not just "it works good enough with a few hours of tweaking."

I agree

[UbuntuDupe]

I think we need a rule: "No Wine for Ubuntu users." That might make them less likely to think up names like "Breezy Badger" and "Dapper Drake". Although perhaps extend the rule to Beer, Liquor, and perhaps Shrooms as well?

Good

[Tribbin]

I haven't installed MS software on my computer for about seven years now. People ask me if I got MS Office working on it; it is the first thing they try when they install linux.

"I haven't tried it."

People find that awkward.

Also people often say that 'app X does not work the same as commercial product X'.

Sure, intercompatability is pushed from the open side because of demand. But ...

LINUX IS NOT WINDOWS!

People find that hard to understand.

I think this step by DELL + Ubuntu is a step in the right direction of bringing that understanding.

if you're angry @ dell because this...

[Adult film producer]

it's because you haven't faced up to the reality: Wine isn't very good.

Sure you can make some programs work, sometimes. And sometimes when applications do work under Wine they act horribly, weird, strange, lots of font issues. It's not that the wine developers havent tried, it's just that emulating a Piece of Shit like Windows is nearly fucking impossible.. nobody can emulate the development hysteria that went into building windows. I don't fault the Wine devs, they tried mimic microsofts bullshit, but failed...

It's a work in progress, I know... but now Vista is out now.. and microsoft will release another POS of OS soon enough... they have no chance to keep up with the Redmond madness.

OS/2

[thetagger]

Good. Windows compatibility is one of the things that killed OS/2.