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Bill Bans NSA Eavesdropping
An anonymous reader writes "The US house of representatives today passed a bill outlawing illegal domestic wiretapping by the government. Now government agencies are only allowed to access your private communications under terms of FISA. 'As the Senate Report noted, FISA "was designed . . . to curb the practice by which the Executive Branch may conduct warrantless electronic surveillance on its own unilateral determination that national security justifies it." The Bill ends plans by the Bush Administration that would give the NSA the freedom to pry into the lives of ordinary Americans. The ACLU noted that, despite many recent hearings about 'modernization' and 'technology neutrality,' the administration has not publicly provided Congress with a single example of how current FISA standards have either prevented the intelligence community from using new technologies, or proven unworkable for the agents tasked with following them.'"
That's ok. I wasn't trying that hard.
It's clearly not a question that has been resolved. I've said that before. The "it's obviously illegal crowd" is simply wrong. It isn't "obviously" illegal. It isn't "obviously" legal either.
There are arguments on both sides that seem to have legal merit.
One side wants to protect America from terrorists; the other wants to protect terrorists from America. That's the basis on which I chose my side.
I would never insult a soldier for his actions in Iraq if he were under orders.
Really? Are you assuming that soldiers are Holy, and nothing they do could possibly be a Bad thing, or are you assuming that soldiers are too stupid to think for themselves?
I don't respond to AC's.
How would Republicans breaking rank and sacrificing their reputation change anything?
The only thing that matters is whether FBI officers would ignore Gonzales' orders and arrest White House officials once Congress sent the instructions to the Justice Department. I think some would, though I think that Bush would declare some emergency surrounding himself with suicide theocrat troops he's been cultivating the past 6 years.
That sick turn would result in the Congress enforcing order, after much damage. It would serve the country well to see a presidential coup executed in such stark terms.
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make install -not war
1) Anyone who has researched domestic wiretaps knows it has been going on for decades.
2) A house bill cannot become law without a corresponding senate bill, a joint conference reconciled version and another positive vote. Finally it must be signed into law by the president, and/or defeat a veto with a super majority. Read the constitution.
3) Some tend to agree that wiretapping is legal outside the united states. Some are offended that any US citizen might be wiretapped without a court order. ACLU and others are offended and in denial that the capability exists at all. What about a non-US citizen? What about a US citizen who is outside the US (phone call originates outside)? What about a US citizen calling a known terrorist (UBL for example) who is already under surveillance? How about a known terrorist (Zawahiri for example) already under surveillance calling a US citizen? I guess we just have to pretend the phone call never occurred, start from ground zero and head for the FISA court, and hope to get in/out in a timely way to do something about your surely short lived "intelligence" about the location of an HVT, or potential accomplices. Lots of real smart asses out here posting some rather vehement ideas that this is some open and shut thing for third rate lawyers. Sounds like a constitutional nightmare to me with good and bad on both sides. A few wanna be ambulance chasers have decided that its all about the process or the FISA, that somehow congress can pass laws (not constitutional ammendments, just laws passed by a majority) which fundamentally change the balance of powers sought by the framers of the constitution (specifically in this case executive powers to deal with threats to the nation). Deal with all of these problems in some realistic way, or shut the fuck up.
4) Some think that all this technology is some vast big brother conspiracy. That somehow their deep dark personal secrets will be cataloged and used against them. Hell face it, the FISA was created to prevent the executive branch from being able to use its well known ability to eavesdrop on the CONGRESS, a body rife with pecadillos. If some think that FISA was meant to protect the average american citizen, ask yourself why is the FISA all done in a highly classified environment? Think about this for a moment, given the classified nature of having access to these phone transcripts (it's all TS at least), and even some reasonably reliable automated keyword voice recongition capability, whats the chance of any HUGE body of intelligence pukes plowing through the volume of calls flagged by the thousands of keywords and finding anything significant? Assuming 200 million people make 2 phone calls per day, assume roughly 20% have some factor which generates a "positive interest", assume a 500,000 analysts (this is larger than the uniformed USAF and Navy combined) what will it take to sort through the "positive hits" let alone correlate them? Truth: You will be lucky to get the most obvious cases using known phone numbers or other relavant triggers.
For all you brilliant conspiracy theorists, the answer is, it can't be done!!! And oh.... by the way... smoke this in your ACLU hash pipe, without the FISA court approval of the "wiretap" (before or after the fact), not one word, not one phone number, not one GPS reported location, not one set of owner information, NOTHING obtained can be used as evidence in a US court of law (and I guarantee you it would not be used anyway).
5) Here's a question for those just interested in bashing Bush (despite his being a simple putsch). Have any of you got any idea during whose administration all this capability was first briefed to the president?? Can you maybe take a guess at what congressional panels knew about this capability and during what color of congress did the system in question get funded? Can you guess what legislation might have been in some way a reaction to this as a real capability? If you guessed that this huge system (try looking up echelon) was i
What people tend to forget is that problems such as the abuse of prisoners only came to light because they WERE the anomaly.
The reason that they tend to forget this is because our domestic enemies, aka the left, work very hard to create the false impression that our military is in the business of abusing people.
During the last war that was an overseas extension of our ongoing war with our domestic enemies, aka the Vietnam war, the left painted our soldiers as "baby killers," a characterization of the military that is still prevalent among the leftists of that generation to this day. I once knew a girl whose mother "disowned" her when she joined the army after high school. The rationale was that the military was made up of nothing bu "baby killers." I was only 18 at the time, and while I knew her mother was mad, I didn't realize that her insanity was the result of leftist indoctrination. I was too young to realize that large groups of people can be hopelessly and completely full of shit. Impervious to logic, resistant to experience, and all but immune to encounters with the clue-bat. Some forms of insanity are communicable. Some do eventually come to their senses and join the rest of us in the real world, but sadly for many it is a life-long ailment.
The mistake that Americans make when dealing with our domestic enemies is that we allow them to set the agenda. This is why "no blood for oil", "bush lied and people died", "9/11 was an inside job" and other such destructive nonsense is as prevalent as it is. Far too many of us simply don't understand that our domestic enemies are in fact our enemies. They are not the loyal opposition, but our foes. Trying to work with them is like one of the 3 little pigs asking the big bad wolf for advice on how to build a house, or asking a child molester to draft laws dealing with sexual predators. Dealing with them as anything other than the enemy in our midst is a terrible mistake that won't just affect our lives, but the lives of those who come after us.
The good news is that as time goes by the left becomes less and less able to sustain its political standing. The left has become more vocal, more organized, and far better funded than ever in recent years, or at least since the fall of the Soviet Union. Yet in spite of all this increased activity they are only just barely maintaining their level of influence. They're also being dangerously frank and forthcoming about their own nature and the purposes of their agendas. Subterfuge and misdirection have always been among their primary tactics because most people want nothing to do with what they are actually about. The more they show their hand, the weaker that hand becomes. So despite all of the problems and destruction that they cause, I'm am hopeful for the future.
Muslim community leaders warn of backlash from tomorrow morning's terrorist attack.