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Microsoft Bans Modified Xbox 360s From Xbox Live
An anonymous reader writes "Microsoft has now officially started banning Xbox 360s that have had their DVD drive firmware modified from Live, possibly using information brought in by the Crackdown-originated Halo 3 beta downloads. Scene site forums have already collapsed under traffic, and Microsoft has officially confirmed that they are banning modded Xbox 360s to keep the online playing field fair and level."
It's keeping it fair by not letting people who didn't pay for the game enjoy the service.
Slashdot - where whining about luck is the new way to make the world you want.
What does banning altered consoles have to do with keeping online play 'fair and level'?
I thought that copies are identical to the originals.
One might say that using a modified XBox could mean hacked console firmware to gain unfair advantages, like visual aids, gfx drivers clip hacks, aimbots, tricks with skins, etc.
Another one might say that this is FUD applied to online gaming. After all, we're talking about Microsoft.
I don't see an problem with Microsoft banning people with DVD drives modified to play copied games. It makes it fair for the honest people who payed good money to play. If people with unmodified boxes start getting banned by mistake, then that would be something to worry about.
There's nothing wrong with anti-piracy measures so long as they're unobtrusive and don't effect people with legitimate copies.
In an ideal world people would be able to mod their DVD players to their heart's content without having to worry about things like this.
Unfortunately, we don't live in an ideal world. As a Live player who frequently encounters modders who use their modifications to gain unfair (read ridiculous) advantage over the competition. It's no fun to play the game and service you're paying for when you have opponents with auto-aiming snipers that shoot through walls. Or even if they can just fly (a far more rare and less threatening occurrence that is nonetheless not an exaggeration. As long as stuff like that exists banning modded 360's from live is a good way to protect the greatest part of your paying customer base from such behavior.
You can. They just don't want you to play online against people who have OEM consoles.
If they didn't want you to mod the box at all, they could just brick it.
// "Can't clowns and pirates just -try- to get along?"
I don't think there exist any unofficial mods for the PS3 yet. You can install Linux on it, but that is officially supported and the hypervisor stops you from meddling with data to which you shouldn't have access.
It's their network, why shouldn't they ban people that don't play by their rules?
I say this as somebody that purchased a 360 less than a week ago, and loaded up the hacked firmware for my drive less than 24 hours ago.
Am I bummed? Not really. It's a private network, they can do whatever they like with it. Doing anything I want with my hardware sure as shit is my right, but I shouldn't expect other people to be forced to allow me to play on their servers like it's some base human right being violated.
One might say that using a modified XBox could mean hacked console firmware to gain unfair advantages, like visual aids, gfx drivers clip hacks, aimbots, tricks with skins, etc.
Another one might say that this is FUD applied to online gaming. After all, we're talking about Microsoft.
Yup, you nailed it. When talking about Microsoft, boring logic steps back to make way for our creative imagination!
We'll probably just see the same thing that we did with the first XBox: a modchip with an external switch connected that can tell it to disable itself and let the original drive firmware load. Of course, setting it up probably won't be as easy as it was in the XBox 1 (which had a nice little LPC port that you could get the system to load a different BIOS from by just shorting one solder point to ground)... it may be necessary to actually remove the firmware ROM chips from the drive and wire in a new switched bank with copies of both the original and the modified firmware, but it certainly seems doable.
Another issue that slightly complicates things is the fact that the 360 signs you in to XBox live by default when you have an active network connection, so modders will have to be careful to unplug their ethernet cables when the switch is turned on. One vulnerability remains, though, and that is that Microsoft may choose to push out a dashboard update which checks for the drive's original firmware on EVERY bootup, and remembers to tattle to XBox live as soon as you sign on. Microsoft could choose to store this data on the hard drive/memory card (in which case it could be defeated by having a pair of storage devices, one for modded and unmodded use), or they could put it in the 360's internal flash storage, where the dashboard and system software itself is stored (no easy solution for that one, but I don't know enough about the 360's internals to know if the internal storage is flash RAM, which makes this easy, or an EEPROM, which would seem to require that the dashboard reflash itself with the new variable set every time that happens).
Anyway, it does seem that it is possible to defeat this scheme. I'd also like to note that Microsoft's stated reason for the update is bullshit, since even with the drive's firmware flashed, the 360 will still only load Microsoft-signed executables (meaning that it can play backups of original games, but is useless for homebrew and modified games). They might as well just come out and say that it's a measure to defeat privacy, since they've locked out homebrew programs anyway (with the exception of their XNA creator's club program, which lets you run only games written for their limited API, and only in C#, instead of giving access to the full-on devkit that the pros use). Couching it in pro-gamer language about defeating cheaters is disingenuous.
Anonymous Luddite: "What do you think of the dehumanizing effects of the Internet?"
Andy Grove: "Not Much."
The firmware hack did not allow you to do this. Since all code on the Xbox 360 (and PS3 for that matter), is signed and run through a hypervisor, for you to run a backup it needs to be identical to the original. Altering any of the code for wall hacks in Hallo 3 for example will change the result of the signing algorithm and the 360 will refuse to run it. The hypervisor was briefly compromised a while ago on the 360 but quickly patched (6 days I believe, so quicker than the file copying bug in vista). Using back ports of the previously hacked Xbox motherboard firmware it is possible to get a few things running such as preliminary XBMC and emulators (I'm not 100% on this maybe someone can confirm). However it is still not possible to run unsigned games.
Incidentally the method Microsoft used to detect the hack this time is very interesting. It was believed that the DVD drive firmware hack was un-detectable as well as un-patchable since Microsoft had no way of remotely upgrading or checking the firmware. A few weeks ago it was theorized that Microsoft could possibly pick up the difference in DVD read jitter between DVD-R media versus printed originals. You can kinda make out jitter by listening to the extra work a DVD drive does when reading a DVD-R compared to a printed DVD. Anyway a firmware patch was released for this purpose. It appears to not have worked however since reports are coming in that people are getting banned even with this latest patch. Currently its being theorized that possibly Microsoft are checking the read speed difference, between DVD-R and pressed DVD's. Data rates tend to drop slightly to my knowledge when reading DVD-R's, so this could be detected from the main 360 software. Others are speculating that Microsoft have just been data mining for the past few months and have just banned those they have picked up until the jitter patch was released.
Finally it is also interesting that Microsoft have only banned the detected Xbox console and not the Live account. They clearly want the hackers to spend more money buying more hardware off them. An interesting way of getting some lost revenue back.
The mantra for used goods, as far as I can remember, is "buyer beware". Plus, if a person buys an XBOX 360 off of eBay, and it isn't what the seller said it was - a fully functioning XBOX - then they can take it up with eBay channels for dealing with such issues. That isn't really Microsoft's problem.
We often rail on Microsoft on this website, for implementing "anti-piracy" measures at the expense and convenience of legitimate customers. As such, I don't see how people could complain about this. They are banning modded boxes from XBOX Live (not BRICKING them, which is an important distinction), and leaving paying customers the hell alone.
As with any mass action like this, there may be a few people who are inadvertently targeted by this, but hopefully Microsoft will take care of them properly. If they don't, we can skewer them then.
- Scott
"What I'm saying is that unlike software (including music), you don't buy a license to use/listen to it."
No, with Live that's exactly what you do.
"You buy the physical hardware and you can do whatever you want to it."
Knock yourself out, but purchasing the hardware doesn't automatically give you the right to access Microsoft's network facilities on your terms rather than theirs.
The only reason I pay my Xbox Live subscription is to play on a clean network with no cheating. Granted, I have seen cheating, but it is very rare compared to say... any PC game. And it is usually quickly fixed. Like the vast majority of people, I bought my Xbox 360 to play games, I did not buy it to mod it. The *most important* thing in any competitive game or sport is fairness; skill, talent, and practice should be the only deciding factors in the outcome. If you want to mod yours, fine, but I don't want to see you on Xbox Live, which is a *private* network. The reason why there is such little cheating on Xbox Live is that it is detected at the hardware level, *not* on a per game basis like in PC Games. This is why I pay, and this is why I prefer to play FPSs on Xbox Live. Sure, I would rather play with a mouse and keyboard, but fair competition is the most important thing in online play.
That it hasn't been published doesn't mean it hasn't been broken. Not all hacks are made public.
After 3 days without programming, life becomes meaningless
- The Tao of Programming
Look, man, if you want it any more fair than a level playing ground, participate in the special Olympics. Microsoft might suck, a lot, but by no means is it obligated to help everyone feel better about themselves.
At this point I think most of that kind of cheating is limited to the gifted few who are capable of knowing what to tweak themselves, but the potential is there, all it would take is someone to release a "tool" to make it easy for Joe-wannabe-hacker and you'll find yourself playing Halo 3 with someone who has infinite ammo, perfect aim, can see through walls, jump twice as high, run twice as fast, takes no damage, etc. etc. etc.
It's good that they did this, though the number of reported False Positives is appalling. I would suspect a great many of them are due to people who unknowingly purchased used or received refurbished consoles that had previously been modified... those people really don't have any proof that they didn't mod it themselves and their console might actually be modified. There are also some reports of unmodified consoles purchased on launch day (meaning there is no way they were refurbished) getting banned, though it's difficult to tell if the claims are genuine or just some pirate crying wolf.
Collector's Edition
Wow, this actually looks like a PRO MS thread on /. and the other day I could swear that the last one about the Iphone was kind of negative to apple.
*Does Not Compute*
*Head Explodes*
1. The 360 is popular because it's a very good product. As is. If someone from "free software land" buys it, they're presumably not buying it to install Linux and turn it into a networked bagel toaster control center.
2. Even if the 360 were highly-moddable and could easily run Linux and function as a workstation and do all kinds of unexpected and exciting things, why should we let the modded Xbox on Live? And why would the modder care at all about being banned from Live? The only modders who would care about that are "pirates" and people who cheat at games.
3. Finally, MS doesn't make much money on things 360. Not yet, anyway. And really, regardless of how I feel about MS's style of competition and no matter what I might like or dislike about them, I don't lose sleep whenever I think about them making money. It's not like they're using the money to burn down forests and put lead in grade school water supplies.
http://nerdcartoons.com/
You might not prefer a Wii if you owned a 50" HDTV. The difference is night-and-day. Its really too bad that Nintendo couldn't manage 720p.
> If you can't install Linux on it or otherwise do with it as you please, it's not anywhere near as useful as it should be.
I apply the same litmus test to all decisions in my life, including my choice of girlfriends and pets. That's why I masturbate a lot and have a hamster that runs Ubuntu.
As someone who has a 360 and had a silver account (the free one) then got a gold let me give you some facts:
,etc. Don't complain cause you get banned because you are no longer on the same level, doesn't matter what the "hack" is, want to play on live it costs 50 bucks a year and you can't mod your 360. Don't want to follow the rules then don't play.
1. Console updates are given to anyone.
2. You may download free stuff with either account
3. Some content (free) may first be only available to gold members then to silver.
4. You must have gold to play multiplayer.
5. You can buy extra content without having a gold membership
Look playing on xbox live has a set of rules. Like playing in the NBA, NFL, Nascar, etc
Dumb analogy complaining sports have substance abuse rules. Why not let athletes who have been loaded up on steroids compete against those who trained without them?
Another good sports analogy that also covers the "I'm free to do what I want with my hardware" argument: corked bats in baseball. Sure, you're free to modify and cork your bat all you want, but that doesn't mean Major League Baseball is going to let you use it in real games.
--- This meme is memory intensive
That having been said, I have no problem with MS banning modded boxes from Live. Nor do I have a problem with people who may someday be able to mod their 360 and turn it into a media center, although I'd rather just build a Myth-capable Shuttle box if I wanted to do that.
"Can't you see that everyone is buying station wagons?"
Instead of outright banning them why don't they send them to their own server? That way they can still keep track of who they are and perhaps not clue the modders in to the fact that MS knows that they've modded their box. MS could even run some well written bots to populate the server and totally kick the modders' asses. It could be a fun side project for the game developers (:
No sig for you. YOU GET NO SIG!
Its not like flashing the drive lets you run cheats or install your aimbot.
:)
Actually . . .
Google "Coalesced.ini" to see how Gears of War had its ranked leaderboard hijacked by people who were enabled by flashing the drive.
Of course I am not niave enough to think that this is MS's primary motivation here
First, you need to step a way from that pipe, get sober and calm down.
Second, if you actually listened to yourself, then you would realize how ridiculous your argument is. There is a clear contract when you sign up for the Xbox Live service. It says, if you mod your box, you are not eligible for the service. Case closed.
For a comparison, if you buy a car and you make a modification that is not authorized by the manufacturer, your warranty is null and void. And that is a rule that has been tested many times in the court of law.
Good luck trying to get a lawyer.
While I agree that MS should be allowed to protect their profit margins, I have to say I disagree with your points 1 and 2.
I had the original XBOX and I modded mine because it made an awesome media centre, I could drop in a 250GB HDD and store all my media on the thing, or even hook it straight up to a network and stream the media from my PC. It turned the XBOX into what MS always wanted it to be, and did a much better job than MS have done so far with the 360.
Having said that, I also very much enjoyed playing (legit) games on my XBOX, and the one thing I lamented was not feeling I could use the Live service (okay, some chip makers claimed to allow safe Live access, I didn't think it was worth the risk). At the time, I didn't lament enough to give up my media centre solution - now I'm hooked on Live and I have to have separate online console gaming/media centre solutions vying for space in my living room. If I could chip the 360 to do what the XBOX did AND still get my online gaming fix, it would be perfect.
So, not just pirates that miss being able to chip their console and play online.
The point is that we, in software development studios, pay a lot of money to get the rights to develop on a console- we spend ~$10,000 a devkit- and Microsoft gets a certain percent of the profit from games. It's what pays for the system. It's about piracy-
Everyone gets screwed when you steal a game. Let me give you a real world example:
First off, it's not just suits that you're stealing from- everyone in the company, from the programmers to the testers get bonuses- and that's based on the amount of time they put in. They all profit off of the sales. So yes, you are stealing from the developers as well as the producers.
Second- an example with our game was when a European review magazine put a (slightly) pre-release build on bittorrent. It had the same title-ID so it worked, but it was slightly different than the final releases. When we released a patch, it destroyed a bunch of peoples' games (binary difference)- because the BT copy was wrong- but still technically worked until then. Our troubleshooting system gets flooded with complaints- and we soon find out its all people who stole our game that demanded we waste our time (and we did- we put in long hours figuring it out) to help them fix it.
My thoughts: If you modify your console to steal games, you can go to hell. MS has every right to kick you off- when you buy the hardware, you buy the hardware- but if you're going to *use* the system, play by the rules. Games are expensive to make and we work really hard on them. You are welcome to put linux on it- but let's not kid ourselves- You're not 'backing up' games.